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Live updates: Iran launches missile attack on airbase in Iraq housing US troops

Jezbollah

Formerly 'DV27'
Jun 14, 2010
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I know nothing about planes, beyond flying on them a lot, and am not qualified in the field of vectors, but to have a plane come down in Iran, of all places, considering the thousands of other aircraft routinely flying around the world *is* suspicious, at this time, whatever the outcome.

What lessens my suspicions somewhat is Iran were attacking in Iraq at the time, which lessens the potential for it being an accidentally targeted plane in my opinion. Where would the attacks on Al Asad have been launched from?
Your suspicions are not unfounded. The Boeing 737-800 is an absolute workhorse of global aviation. Just a shade under 5000 of them have been delivered, and they fly thousands of flights each day. They, along with the Airbus A320 series aircraft, are the most common aircraft flying in global aviation.

This aircraft was three months old - and was taking off from an airport and flying in the airspace of a country that is a major hotspot when it comes to current affairs. There are already some parrallels to be drawn with MH17 judging by photos already seen on Social Media (albeit unvalidated). The fact no black boxes have been recovered from the site, and people are already stating "engine issue" is just adding to this.
 
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Psykodad

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I'm gonna lmao if this will turn into a modern Vietnam for the US.

The US truly is the most brainwashed and warmongering country in the world, by far.

If one country is guilty of terrorism, it's the US.
They're just lucky that they're able to hide behind "democracy" and vetos.
 

HoodWinked

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Jun 30, 2010
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so the plane was on fire in the air

also there were a strangely high number of Canadians on that flight

Ukraine’s foreign ministry listed 176 victims, including 82 Iranians; 63 Canadians; 11 Ukrainians, including nine crew members; 10 Swedes; four Afghans; three Germans and three Britons
 
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Cato

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so the plane was on fire in the air

also there were a strangely high number of Canadians on that flight

Ukraine’s foreign ministry listed 176 victims, including 82 Iranians; 63 Canadians; 11 Ukrainians, including nine crew members; 10 Swedes; four Afghans; three Germans and three Britons
It was a fireball, it was falling apart and shedding huge parts of the fuselage.
Those huge parts of the fuselage that are ripped off gives us a way to estimate the angle of decent.
I measure it at near 20 degrees.

20 degree angle of decent hard landing is unsurvivable. (i think everyone is dead from the heat/fire already, but anyway)
 

TeamGhobad

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You guys want to hear something funny?

As all this was going on Putin inaugurated a gas pipeline to Turkey bypassing Iran. With friends like these..
 

matt404au

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Facism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Let's go down the checklist here:

-a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power: Trump's had no reservation to express continual admiration for authoritarians and dictators. His rhetoric has aligned to one ("I alone can fix it"). I don't believe it unreasonable to think that if allowed, he'd make himself into what he appears to admire so much.

-forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism. Trump's constantly and viciously attacked and attempted to greatly undermine anything that disagrees with him, whether that be people, the press, or our institutions. For NOTHING so noble as journalistic integrity, but instead so he can further his own bullshit "alternative facts" for those actually gullible enough to believe it. I'd be shocked if he were granted the authority that he wouldn't then take means to silence dissent. Him not currently doing so doesn't stem from a lack of want or respect for the rule of law, it's because he's in a system that prohibits such action. Going after the media and such criticism is a textbook fascist tactic, especially when he's criticized much of the time for lying.

-regimenting all industry, commerce, etc.: ah, what was that recent pearl from him? "I hereby order all companies......"? :messenger_grinning_squinting: Sure he can't do this, so people will brush it off, but it doesn't matter......intent is what is relevant in determining a fascist mentality.

-Emphasizing an aggressive nationalism? Yes, that's a massive check.

-Racism? Not explicitly stated and certainly debatable, but there's a few times that've tended to evidence as much.

People are incredibly naive if they believe that Trump wouldn't let these manifest into fascism if he were given ultimate, unrestricted power. I wouldn't argue he's the next Hitler, I believe Trump to mostly be a crass, harmless doofus and nowhere near evil, but nonetheless, he's displayed more than a few fascist tendencies as president in his speech and attitudes and people are disingenuous if they don't recognize that. For fuck's sakes, the guy said this: “Real power is — I don’t even want to use the word — fear.” Though he may not actually be, I can fully understand how some view him a fascist, and find it ludicrous that his supporters roll their eyes at such a possibility given his behavior and rhetoric. People asking to show Trump to be a fascist is like someone asking to show a criminal to be a criminal while he’s locked in a cell. That that person is unable to commit a crime does not mean he isn’t a criminal, it just means he’s not able to act as one.
Are you retarded?

Who let this screecher in?
 

Woo-Fu

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I'm gonna lmao if this will turn into a modern Vietnam for the US.
Why would it be a ground war? There was a ground war in Vietnam because we were fighting the Viet Cong. The only way to *find* them was a ground war, much less fight them. It's the same reason we need boots on the ground when fighting terrorists embedded in the civilian populace.

Iran on the other hand is a state. They have infrastructure. They have bases. Don't need a ground war to fight Iran. First wave takes out the air defenses, second wave and every wave after that hits infrastructure until Iran taps out. It would be almost entirely air-delivered ordnance, although I'm sure special forces will be doing their thing here and there as needed.

Next you'll say, "But what about Iraq?" Iraq was about a) removing Saddam and b) finding WMDs that didn't exist, and finally c) trying to put them back on their feet with a reasonable government, all of which needed people on the ground. None of that is the same in Iran. They want to have an Islamic Revolution? Go ahead, just have it within your own borders. We already know they want nukes and we know exactly where they're doing all the work towards that effort, don't need to go in and find it. Just need to hit it.

So when people try to compare this to either Vietnam or Iraq I tend to think they're being purposely ignorant or just straight up ignorant.
 
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Psykodad

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Why would it be a ground war? There was a ground war in Vietnam because we were fighting the Viet Cong. The only way to *find* them was a ground war, much less fight them. It's the same reason we need boots on the ground when fighting terrorists embedded in the civilian populace.

Iran on the other hand is a state. They have infrastructure. They have bases. Don't need a ground war to fight Iran.
I was referring to the US boasting about their power and righteousness while severely underestimating the enemy.
 
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Cato

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I was referring to the US boasting about their power and righteousness while severely underestimating the enemy.
There is not going to be a war. No one wants a war. Not Trump, not US, not Iran. Noone.

Only people that want a war is crazy left because they fantasize that it would make Trump look bad and lose the election.
Don't listen to those people. They are retarded and driven by emotion.
 

redfirm

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There is not going to be a war. No one wants a war. Not Trump, not US, not Iran. Noone.

Only people that want a war is crazy left because they fantasize that it would make Trump look bad and lose the election.
Don't listen to those people. They are retarded and driven by emotion.
and the crazy right, lets not forget about it. the more time i spend here and read stuff on era, i notice that i just hate both sides, they are both really extreme and make no sense.
 
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Psykodad

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There is not going to be a war. No one wants a war. Not Trump, not US, not Iran. Noone.

Only people that want a war is crazy left because they fantasize that it would make Trump look bad and lose the election.
Don't listen to those people. They are retarded and driven by emotion.
I don't know.

I expect the US to seek a reason for war, as they've been doing it for the past 17 years.

Trump is just the puppet placed in the white house rn.
 
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Cato

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I don't know.

I expect the US to seek a reason for war, as they've been doing it for the past 17 years.

Trump is just the puppet placed in the white house rn.
Why would Putin want to force Trump to start a war against Iran?
You know Iran and Russia are best friends? You know Putin supposedly controls every single thing Trump does?

It would make no sense.

Lets have a friendly bet. Avatar control for a quarter.
If there is proper war between US and Iran started before end of March you win. If not I win and will create a really funny avatar for you.
 

Cato

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I am shocked.

EDIT: we actually don't need the black box. But please do send the wing segment and the horizontal stabilizer in the photos that had those shrapnel puncture wounds. I am certain Boeing folks can confidently conclude the reason for failure just by those two pieces of debris.
 
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Krappadizzle

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I'm gonna lmao if this will turn into a modern Vietnam for the US.

The US truly is the most brainwashed and warmongering country in the world, by far.

If one country is guilty of terrorism, it's the US.
They're just lucky that they're able to hide behind "democracy" and vetos.
Dude, maybe just learn a teensy tinsy bit about Iran's history with terrorism and hostages before you start "laughing your ass off"
 

Psykodad

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Dude, maybe just learn a teensy tinsy bit about Iran's history with terrorism and hostages before you start "laughing your ass off"
One wrong doesn't excuse the other.

Fact of the matter is that for the past 17 years, there was no reason for the US and the West to be in the ME.

The US brought this whole situation on to themselves.
 
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Psykodad

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Why would Putin want to force Trump to start a war against Iran?
You know Iran and Russia are best friends? You know Putin supposedly controls every single thing Trump does?

It would make no sense.

Lets have a friendly bet. Avatar control for a quarter.
If there is proper war between US and Iran started before end of March you win. If not I win and will create a really funny avatar for you.
What does Putin have to do with it? US national nonsense is not of any concern.

But I'll take you up on the bet.
At least we'll get some fun out of it.
 

Cato

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What does Putin have to do with it? US national nonsense is not of any concern.

But I'll take you up on the bet.
At least we'll get some fun out of it.
Cool. For avatar, please, nothing really obscene like just a big penis or something. Lets try to make it pointy but funny and family friendly. ok?
 

Bigrx1

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and the crazy right, lets not forget about it. the more time i spend here and read stuff on era, i notice that i just hate both sides, they are both really extreme and make no sense.
Same - I don't spend time on Era but reddit is basically the same, extreme left group think. Hanging out both there and here I've learned a lot more about myself and that I'm more centrist than anything, when I used to think I was more left.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

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I'm gonna lmao if this will turn into a modern Vietnam for the US.

The US truly is the most brainwashed and warmongering country in the world, by far.

If one country is guilty of terrorism, it's the US.
They're just lucky that they're able to hide behind "democracy" and vetos.
I too LMAO when wars are about to start since I am too a fucking psychopath!
 

Psykodad

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That “lesson” is going to mean people dying. And those people aren’t the ones that made the decisions leading to this situation.
Those people chose to join the army.

I respect them for what they have to go through, but ultimately they chose to be in that position by signing up.
 

SLoWMoTIoN

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It's an expression.
LMAO a war is gonna happen fuck the US!
LMAO warmongers!
LMAO dead people!
LMAO drone strikes!
LMAO death to the US!

Sure is man!
But Americans could use another lesson in humbleness.
You do know none of the people living in the US are actually affected by foreign wars right?
That “lesson” is going to mean people dying. And those people aren’t the ones that made the decisions leading to this situation.
Yeah I feel bad for all those future dead Iranians.
Those people chose to join the army.

I respect them for what they have to go through, but ultimately they chose to be in that position by signing up.
Sure you do LMAO!
 
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Scopa

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One wrong doesn't excuse the other.

Fact of the matter is that for the past 17 years, there was no reason for the US and the West to be in the ME.

The US brought this whole situation on to themselves.
They did have an excuse. Oil and power.

EDIT: and money! Let’s not forget the money.
 
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Psykodad

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LMAO a war is gonna happen fuck the US!
LMAO warmongers!
LMAO dead people!
LMAO drone strikes!
LMAO death to the US!

Sure is man!

You do know none of the people living in the US are actually affected by foreign wars right?

Yeah I feel bad for all those future dead Iranians.

Sure you do LMAO!
You choose your presidents, you live with the consequences.

If people need to die in order for the world (and especially the US) to wake up and realize what a mess we're in, so be it.

They did have an excuse. Oil and power.



EDIT: and money! Let’s not forget the money.
True. Lol
 
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Turnt

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Those people chose to join the army.

I respect them for what they have to go through, but ultimately they chose to be in that position by signing up.
They didn’t choose to be used like that. And yeh you can say “they should have known!” but for a lot of people joining the military is the best option they have or they joined for idealistic reasons that didn’t include stuff like this. They don’t deserve this.

Even putting aside the military on both sides. There are probably going to be Iraqi and Iranian civilians who die as a result of this. Maybe some American civilians too, either from some form of attack on American soil (perhaps unlikely but not impossible) or American civilians living and working in other countries.
 
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redfirm

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You choose your presidents, you live with the consequences.

If people need to die in order for the world (and especially the US) to wake up and realize what a mess we're in, so be it.

True. Lol
what if it was your own family, would you sacrifice your mom and dad or brother and sister for your so called world peace? i bet you wont. its easy to talk like this when the ones you love are not affected.
 

Psykodad

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They didn’t choose to be used like that. And yeh you can say “they should have known!” but for a lot of people joining the military is the best option they have or they joined for idealistic reasons that didn’t include stuff like this. They don’t deserve this.

Even putting aside the military on both sides. There are probably going to be Iraqi and Iranian civilians who die as a result of this. Maybe some American civilians too, either from some form of attack on American soil (perhaps unlikely but not impossible) or American civilians living and working in other countries.
I'm fully aware of that.
But Hiroshima also ended the war in the pacific, right?

Sometimes extreme measures are needed for the best outcome.
So if a full-scale war where the US will be humbled is needed in order for the ME to restore order their way, then that's what's needed.

what if it was your own family, would you sacrifice your mom and dad or brother and sister for your so called world peace? i bet you wont. its easy to talk like this when the ones you love are not affected.
Depends, if I truly wanted world peace, I'd actually sacrifice them and live with that knowledge as punishment.

Life's a bitch.
 
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TriSuit666

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20 degree angle of decent hard landing is unsurvivable. (i think everyone is dead from the heat/fire already, but anyway)
Do we have the registry of the flight, and a track?

Might make more sense pairing with the video.

EDIT: Ah, yes. PS752. Hmm, track is very short - a bird strike or other mechanical issue? Doubt it was shot down at that low altitude.
 
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redfirm

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The weird thing here is that all the Americans posting here don't want a war and yet this shit happens and the people that cry "warmongers" are happy a war is happening. It sure makes you think!
you should just ignore the keyboard warriors. people are sensation seekers and i guess since game of thrones finished, they all need something to stimulate their senses, i mean you can only scroll for so long on twitter before running out of bullshit to read.
 

Scopa

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Plane manufacturers don’t get the black box, it goes to the transport authority.
Yep, it goes to the body conducting the investigation of the nation the crash occured in, as far as I can ascertain.

That headline seems typically clickbaity, but what’s new?
 

Psykodad

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The weird thing here is that all the Americans posting here don't want a war and yet this shit happens and the people that cry "warmongers" are happy a war is happening. It sure makes you think!
Maybe because all the americans ultimately support their "war on terror" and those that cry "warmongers" see the US for the terrorists they actually are.
 
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Branthrax

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That plane was shot down, in no way, shape or form was that engine failure especially given how quickly the transmissions cut off and the fact that those planes are able to still operate with a single engine.
 

redfirm

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I'm fully aware of that.
But Hiroshima also ended the war in the pacific, right?

Sometimes extreme measures are needed for the best outcome.
So if a full-scale war where the US will be humbled is needed in order for the ME to restore order their way, then that's what's needed.


Depends, if I truly wanted world peace, I'd actually sacrifice them and live with that knowledge as punishment.

Life's a bitch.
sure you would. but I don't think you would want world peace the moment you have to choose.
 

Cato

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Do we have the registry of the flight, and a track?

Might make more sense pairing with the video.
If you look at the video there is a section where huge pieces of the fuselage are torn off.
These have huge surface area but little weight so they would air-break almost instantly.
They form a nice linear path/line with the actual flaming fuselage itself.

Compare this path with the horizon and you get a pretty good measure of what the angle of descent is.
I measured it to ~20 degrees.
 

TheContact

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CNN does not think the plane crash had anything to do with the hostilities but the photos and videos match up with Al Hadath
so Ukraine said it was an engine failure, there were 80some Iranians on board and 0 Americans, so I’m not sure why Iran would shoot down their own plane?
 

Scopa

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Maybe because all the americans ultimately support their "war on terror" and those that cry "warmongers" see the US for the terrorists they actually are.
These topics always go the way they go.

Being an American-dominated forum, you’ll get bombarded with the typical “hoo-ra!” dumbfuck bullshit. It’s expected.

Being an Aussie (and an exceptionally smart one), I tend to wait and see, study the evidence, look at both sides and ignore the mainstream media dogshit I am fed. You know? Being smart.

Anyway, enough about me. You’re getting dogpiled and I just wanted to let you know that I’m on your side son! Fight the good fight!

But, wishing war, tsk tsk. Not a good ideal.
 

Ornlu

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I'm gonna lmao if this will turn into a modern Vietnam for the US.

The US truly is the most brainwashed and warmongering country in the world, by far.

If one country is guilty of terrorism, it's the US.
They're just lucky that they're able to hide behind "democracy" and vetos.
*yawn*

What country houses the ivory tower that this post came from?
 

SLoWMoTIoN

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Maybe because all the americans ultimately support their "war on terror"
Where is your proof that ALL AMERICANS want wars to happen? What do we gain by this? Like I said most of us won't ever see anything related to this "war". Where are you from again?
and those that cry "warmongers" see the US for the terrorists they actually are.
Nah, it's the "hating America is the most popular thing to do" half of world seems to have a boner for more than anything.
 
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Ornlu

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and the crazy right, lets not forget about it. the more time i spend here and read stuff on era, i notice that i just hate both sides, they are both really extreme and make no sense.
Cool. If you find some of those, let me know. Pretty sure they'd catch a ban.
 
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Turnt

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I'm fully aware of that.
But Hiroshima also ended the war in the pacific, right?

Sometimes extreme measures are needed for the best outcome.
So if a full-scale war where the US will be humbled is needed in order for the ME to restore order their way, then that's what's needed.
I’m not so naive to think a military isn’t necessary. Japan attacked America during The Second World War and it was defending itself. That wasn’t a situation that could be de-escalated like this can.

You’re the one saying you want America taught a lesson to humble them. Did the Iraq war do that? What does them being taught a lesson and being humbled look like to you? This isn’t a rhetorical question. I want to know what that looks like to you. The people in power aren’t going to feel any direct impact from this. If Trump sends in troops and it’s a disaster with mass casualties then 10 years from now he’s still gonna be out playing golf with his rich buddies like he would be if he hadn’t. Both Bush and Obama were responsible for huge numbers of deaths and get to live well respected lives with no real consequences for those choices.
 
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TriSuit666

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If you look at the video there is a section where huge pieces of the fuselage are torn off.
These have huge surface area but little weight so they would air-break almost instantly.
They form a nice linear path/line with the actual flaming fuselage itself.

Compare this path with the horizon and you get a pretty good measure of what the angle of descent is.
I measured it to ~20 degrees.
Yes, fairly obviously shedding airframe - just not convinced it was shot down - perhaps a mechanical issue (bird strike, or lost an engine through the rotate and climb) that overran the pilots before they could attempt an emergency landing???

I'm leaning more toward mechanical than military intervention here.

The plane was 'only' 3.6 years old at the time of the incident, and the older, more reliable 737-800 based model.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

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SLoWMoTIoN

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I’m not so naive to think a military isn’t necessary. Japan attacked America during The Second World War and it was defending itself. That wasn’t a situation that could be de-escalated like this can.

You’re the one saying you want America taught a lesson to humble them. Did the Iraq war do that? What does them being taught a lesson and being humbled look like to you? This isn’t a rhetorical question. I want to know what that looks like to you. The people in power aren’t going to feel any direct impact from this. If Trump sends in troops and it’s a disaster with mass casualties then 10 years from now he’s still gonna be out playing golf with his rich buddies like he would be if he hadn’t.
Exactly. This. I don't get his posts either.