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Loki |OT| Time Crimes

Shy-Gamer

Neo Member
I thought the finale was fine, enough to keep Loki as my favorite series of the MCU so far. It was a bit more exposition-dump and less emotional than what I expected(minus the few last minutes), but the heavy-lifting on that area was already done by episode 4 and 5, what I really needed was answers and I got them.

The series overall was much better than Wandavision at creating and managing expectations instead of, you know, hiring an x-men actor who played an equivalent character only to reveal he's actually a nobody.

Plus I'm really excited about the prospect of Kang and how they're going to handle him, since the way they set it up seems a lot easier for him to show up in multiple movies,maybe with multiple variants of him and be a much more present villain, unlike Thanos who was mostly in the background for so many movies and took forever to show up.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Plus I'm really excited about the prospect of Kang and how they're going to handle him, since the way they set it up seems a lot easier for him to show up in multiple movies,maybe with multiple variants of him and be a much more present villain, unlike Thanos who was mostly in the background for so many movies and took forever to show up.

We already know one version of Kang is the villain in Ant-Man 3.
 

sol_bad

Member
Something I found really interesting.

The TVA exists outside of time and space and is not impacted by "time travel" etc. So how the eff has the TVA changed at the end of the series????
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Finally got the chance to sit down and watch this with dinner and it confirms everything that I already felt about the series. Loki is the best piece of Marvel content that I have seen in my opinion in terms of it's complete package. Or at the very least it is the piece of content that I enjoyed the most. Which is saying a lot because I went midnight screenings of most of the movies and none of them had me as hyped or as anxious as this finale. Endgame was the only thing that came close and even then I knew the Avengers would win. I just didn't know how. But this? This had me on the edge of my seat clinching my ass because I had no idea where it would go. Disney is either the devil himself or they made a deal with him because they literally cannot seem to miss with the MCU. I have seen so many IPs die due to bad sequels and spinoffs yet the MCU just keeps living on in grand style despite the fact they are milking it for all it's worth.


I don't know how they do it, but I pray to god they never stop.
 
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bitbydeath

Gold Member
Something I found really interesting.

The TVA exists outside of time and space and is not impacted by "time travel" etc. So how the eff has the TVA changed at the end of the series????
Honestly the whole time travel dynamics don’t really make sense to me.

Let’s say there was one true timeline that Kang kept and destroyed every other multiverse out there, then wouldn’t any spin-offs post his death still exclude him?

This is why Back to the Future is still King.
 

sol_bad

Member
Honestly the whole time travel dynamics don’t really make sense to me.

Let’s say there was one true timeline that Kang kept and destroyed every other multiverse out there, then wouldn’t any spin-offs post his death still exclude him?

This is why Back to the Future is still King.

I don't think the other multiverses have been destroyed, I think that there are still an unlimited number of realities that exist. Maybe there is a TVA for each type of reality and the Kang we saw at the end of the season controls all TVAs. It might explain why the Mobius we saw at the end didn't know Loki, because it's a different TVA, not a changed TVA.
 

Mossybrew

Member
Wow, while it was not a super satisfying end to the season, it was certainly interesting and I felt on the edge of my seat the whole time. More interested than ever in the next couple Marvel movies and of course S2. Whew. This show turned out SO much better than I ever expected.
 
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longdi

Banned
We already know one version of Kang is the villain in Ant-Man 3.

if mere antman team can beat off the conqueror version, seems not much a threat.

as a non comic reader, understand kang is just future human in a time powered suit. not even a super soldier or mutant.

not sure why he is choosen as the next bad. 🤷‍♀️
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
I don't think the other multiverses have been destroyed, I think that there are still an unlimited number of realities that exist. Maybe there is a TVA for each type of reality and the Kang we saw at the end of the season controls all TVAs. It might explain why the Mobius we saw at the end didn't know Loki, because it's a different TVA, not a changed TVA.
But then what are variants if not timelines waiting to be pruned?

Why do these go away and come back if they’re not new timelines being created?

 

sol_bad

Member
But then what are variants if not timelines waiting to be pruned?

Why do these go away and come back if they’re not new timelines being created?


They are differing time lines within the one reality. There might be a reality for example, where everyone is animals (Alokigator) and that reality can also have unlimited branching time lines. Or a reality where Asgardians simply don't exist, again, that reality can have a potential unlimited time branches as well.
 
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DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Something I found really interesting.

The TVA exists outside of time and space and is not impacted by "time travel" etc. So how the eff has the TVA changed at the end of the series????

Just like there can be multiple universes, there can be multiple multiverses too. The change happened before Loki got kicked into the time door because she had already decided to kill He Who Remains and send Loki to the curb. There were already branches happening but everything went to crap when she killed him. So without paying attention, she sent him to a different universe/multiverse TVA. The OG TVA is still there... Just not where Loki ended up.
 

trikster40

Member
Not sure if someone’s asked this or knows the answer, but what’s the significance of the ring on Renslayer’s table? They focused on it again in the finale but never addressed it.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
Also, I like how this episode was part Charlie and the chocolate factory, wizard of oz and the matrix!

I thought

Kang eating the apple when we meet him was a nice touch. Like the snake tempting Eve with the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. She chose wrong, and now they're cast out of Eden (as perfect a universe as they were going to get), and it's chaos from here on out

Not sure if someone’s asked this or knows the answer, but what’s the significance of the ring on Renslayer’s table? They focused on it again in the finale but never addressed it.

Remember in the previous episode Rev and Mobius had drinks to celebrate the end of the operation. In their banter it's revealed this was a common practice of theirs, and Mobius always forgot to use a coaster or to place the drink on the table instead. So she was just reflecting upon her lost friend.
 
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DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Not sure if someone’s asked this or knows the answer, but what’s the significance of the ring on Renslayer’s table? They focused on it again in the finale but never addressed it.

Mobius. She thought he was gone for good ... She really loved their friendship. Not sure about him forgetting the previous rings... It might have been a previous variant or they wiped his memory before, but after he had been conscripted into the TVA.
 

Xenon

Member
Really enjoyed it. I was not expecting much but the whole concept was really out there, in a good way. Chemistry with the cast was spot on. First 5 episodes had us riveted. That last episode was a complete deflation of all the tension they had built up.

I can see what they were going for but it just fell flat. The Loki's conflict felt forced. The direction of it was plain weird. They should have had more close ups on Kane to at least let the actor sell inner conflict. And that lair design... so corny.

Thankfully dull and lackluster isn't a series killer. Hopefully they'll be back in form for season 2.
 

AJUMP23

Gold Member
I liked the ending, I didn't even know that was
KANG
But overall a great show. I look forward to what comes next.
 

Fbh

Member
I thought the finale was pretty good.

I'm glad the answer to everything wasn't "another Loki!!". Having no reference from the Comics I thought Kang was pretty cool, I liked the concept of him being a bit more laid back and not just another Thanos type character. Though I do think how well the character works will depend on how well the actor (and writers/directors) manage to portray different versions of him. From what I understood he was basically one of the nicer versions of Kang, so I expect there will be others that will be more in line with the ruthless villain people were expecting

Overall the show was pretty enjoyable and it also ended up being the one that will have the biggest effect on the MCU.
The biggest negative to me was that they made Loki the character boring. Should have been more of an anti hero and kept the mischievous personality but instead they turned him into a bland and boring good guy that basically gets pushed around the entire show. His whole transformation was not sold very well specially considering this was the Loki that only days ago was keeping up 1vs1 with Captain America and was in the middle of committing genocide in New York.
 
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Ulysses 31

Member
The biggest negative to me was that they made Loki the character boring. Should have been more of an anti hero and kept the mischievous personality but instead they turned him into a bland and boring good guy that basically gets pushed around the entire show. His whole transformation was not sold very well specially considering this was the Loki that only days ago was keeping up 1vs1 with Captain America and was in the middle of committing genocide in New York.
Indeed, people should rewatch Avengers 2012(at least all the Loki scenes) so see how ridiculous Loki's character changes are in the series after just 1 day.

 
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DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
I thought the finale was pretty good.

I'm glad the answer to everything wasn't "another Loki!!". Having no reference from the Comics I thought Kang was pretty cool, I liked the concept of him being a bit more laid back and not just another Thanos type character. Though I do think how well the character works will depend on how well the actor (and writers/directors) manage to portray different versions of him. From what I understood he was basically one of the nicer versions of Kang, so I expect there will be others that will be more in line with the ruthless villain people were expecting

Overall the show was pretty enjoyable and it also ended up being the one that will have the biggest effect on the MCU.
The biggest negative to me was that they made Loki the character boring. Should have been more of an anti hero and kept the mischievous personality but instead they turned him into a bland and boring good guy that basically gets pushed around the entire show. His whole transformation was not sold very well specially considering this was the Loki that only days ago was keeping up 1vs1 with Captain America and was in the middle of committing genocide in New York.
Indeed, people should rewatch Avengers 2012(at least all the Loki scenes) so see how ridiculous Loki's character changes are in the series after just 1 day.


Feige explained the character change when Thanos started coming into the picture... The mind stone in the staff was influencing him negatively... Ratcheting up his feelings to the zenith we saw in Avengers. You even see it in the scene where the avengers are arguing with each other.
 

Shy-Gamer

Neo Member
I actually felt the transition to more thoughtful Loki was really well-done. As life-changing-epiphany devices go, seeing exactly how your former life played out(including causing your mother's death by accident) and how it ended up is a pretty convincing one. And it wasn't immeadiate, he still tried to pull his tricks and only really turned the corner once he fell for Sylvie.
 
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StormCell

Member
Finally got the chance to sit down and watch this with dinner and it confirms everything that I already felt about the series. Loki is the best piece of Marvel content that I have seen in my opinion in terms of it's complete package. Or at the very least it is the piece of content that I enjoyed the most. Which is saying a lot because I went midnight screenings of most of the movies and none of them had me as hyped or as anxious as this finale. Endgame was the only thing that came close and even then I knew the Avengers would win. I just didn't know how. But this? This had me on the edge of my seat clinching my ass because I had no idea where it would go. Disney is either the devil himself or they made a deal with him because they literally cannot seem to miss with the MCU. I have seen so many IPs die due to bad sequels and spinoffs yet the MCU just keeps living on in grand style despite the fact they are milking it for all it's worth.


I don't know how they do it, but I pray to god they never stop.

This is a ringing endorsement and I wholeheartedly agree with it. If anything, to me, I'm beginning to feel like these MCU episodic shows are vastly superior to the movies or just to the whole "movie format" in general. I no longer desire X-Men movies. I would rather have a collection of episodic X-Men related shows. The movies have a limited amount of time to grant to the characters and the storyline such that it never does anyone or any story enough justice.

I can't wait to see a Cyclops + Jean Grey series featuring Mr. Sinister as the villain. Bring it!

More to the show, Loki has kindled in me an affection for a character I barely ever cared about. I'm not and never was a Thor fan, and Loki's past appearances were fairly good, but this show has knocked it so far out of the damn park that I now like Loki as much as I've ever liked any comic book character. Well done! Bravo!
 
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Ulysses 31

Member
Feige explained the character change when Thanos started coming into the picture... The mind stone in the staff was influencing him negatively... Ratcheting up his feelings to the zenith we saw in Avengers. You even see it in the scene where the avengers are arguing with each other.
Even so, it's a hard sell that watching another Loki would change his personality that dramatically in just one day instead of him remaining bad but now be more informed of what not to do next time. He was still being evil when in captivity without the staff.
 
Just like Loki, these Kang variants don't even have to be human. They'll probably start showing up everywhere, probably shown up already.👀 That rhino in black panther looked sus, tbh.
 

sol_bad

Member
Loki's personality change works for me. He has lived for thousands of years doing what he wants. Then he learns that his whole life has been controlled, his powers don't work at the TVA and that his destiny is to die. I think those things would humble someone pretty quickly if you ask me.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
Loki's personality change works for me. He has lived for thousands of years doing what he wants. Then he learns that his whole life has been controlled, his powers don't work at the TVA and that his destiny is to die. I think those things would humble someone pretty quickly if you ask me.

Did they ever give an explanation why his powers didn't work while at the TVA?
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
But by upping the stakes to match Infinity Wars ending, not sure how they can keep the 6-parter TV budget again, without feeling empty?

The shows have roughly the same budget as a non-Avengers MCU movie. Between $100-200M depending on the show.
 

sol_bad

Member
Did they ever give an explanation why his powers didn't work while at the TVA?

No powers work at the TVA, the TVA is outside of time and reality. Sylvie was surprised when she realised her powers wouldn't work there either. Same as the Infinity Stones not working. That's part of the reason why Loki was humbled, because he was so powerless at the TVA, living for thousands of years, using his powers whenever he wanted, then all of a sudden he is powerless.
 
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JayK47

Member
Weird episode. Feel like they opened a can of worms and won't be able to do it justice. I was hoping for more than 6 episodes a season.
 

YCoCg

Member
It somehow felt like it needed an extra episode and didn't at the same time, 5 and 6 felt like a two parter essentially. Kang was a bit info dumpy, naturally the only other big bad we have to compare him to is Thanos who was always more of a background lurker in the previous phases, so to have a version of the next main big bad just be all like "Right, here's the info, I'm warning you though, kill me and multiple me's will come" felt rushed. Shout out to Richard E Grant for being "old comic Loki" but really just being the Loki that survived Infinity War, he played that part great.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
This is a ringing endorsement and I wholeheartedly agree with it. If anything, to me, I'm beginning to feel like these MCU episodic shows are vastly superior to the movies or just to the whole "movie format" in general. I no longer desire X-Men movies. I would rather have a collection of episodic X-Men related shows. The movies have a limited amount of time to grant to the characters and the storyline such that it never does anyone or any story enough justice.

I can't wait to see a Cyclops + Jean Grey series featuring Mr. Sinister as the villain. Bring it!

More to the show, Loki has kindled in me an affection for a character I barely ever cared about. I'm not and never was a Thor fan, and Loki's past appearances were fairly good, but this show has knocked it so far out of the damn park that I now like Loki as much as I've ever liked any comic book character. Well done! Bravo!
Dude do not even get me started on X-Men in the MCU. Or I guess the MCM (Marvel Cinematic Multiverse) now? I would do unspeakable acts to have a Loki/Wandavision level quality X-Men miniseries.


Growing up the X-Men was always my favorite section of the Marvel comics because there were so many oddballs, weirdos, and outcasts that it was easy to find someone to identify with no matter what social spectrum you were from. The variety of personalities and the variety of powers made every issue a new adventure. It wasn't superman where every issue you knew what to expect. There was drama, there was scandal, and there was suspense with X-Men.


I would suck toes for an X-Men equivalent to these MCU miniseries.
 

sol_bad

Member
I'm the same, for years I never ever imagined that a TV series would be a good place for an X-Men film, reason being because every single show I ever watched just didn't have the budget for it. Even GoT and it's high budget gave me doubts that an X-Men TV show could be done, even with GoTs high budget it was still very scarce on CGI shots or big open wide sets.

But with the budget Disney are giving Marvel shows I would now love a TV series for X-Men, there are so many mutant characters that a film wouldn't do it justice. My mind might be changed again after Eternals though, which contains 10 super heroes in a single film. If all 10 characters can have decent characterisation I may revert back to wanting a X-Men movie.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
No powers work at the TVA, the TVA is outside of time and reality. Sylvie was surprised when she realised her powers wouldn't work there either. Same as the Infinity Stones not working.
Is Loki's physical strength the result of some magic? He's originally a frost giant. There's only indication that magic is neutralized in the TVA realm. Also he got knocked out in 1 hit before he ever set foot in the TVA realm when before Hulk's pounding wasn't even enough to do that.
That's part of the reason why Loki was humbled, because he was so powerless at the TVA, living for thousands of years, using his powers whenever he wanted, then all of a sudden he is powerless.
Nah, the real reason was that the writers needed Loki to go through a movie's worth of character arc in one episode because there were only 6.
 
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DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Even so, it's a hard sell that watching another Loki would change his personality that dramatically in just one day instead of him remaining bad but now be more informed of what not to do next time. He was still being evil when in captivity without the staff.

That's the thing, though. His entire throughline in the MCU is that he wanted his father's approval and love. He always felt different and unwanted and didn't know why exactly. Odin didn't exactly show him that love in the way he saw it given to Thor. He was highly jealous of his brother. Look at the films again... Loki only ever wants praise and attention and the only time he is ever "evil" is in Avengers.

His character has been pretty consistent. He's never been evil.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
That's the thing, though. His entire throughline in the MCU is that he wanted his father's approval and love. He always felt different and unwanted and didn't know why exactly. Odin didn't exactly show him that love in the way he saw it given to Thor. He was highly jealous of his brother. Look at the films again... Loki only ever wants praise and attention and the only time he is ever "evil" is in Avengers.

His character has been pretty consistent. He's never been evil.
Guess we're using evil and bad interchangeably, he was a supervillain. He was stolen from his real family and raised by enemies and was lied to about it. He has reasons to be resentful but the show seems to want to shame him for it which takes away from the more complex supervillain he was and the MCU isn't exactly loaded with those.
 
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DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Guess we're using evil and bad interchangeably, he was a supervillain. He was stolen from his real family and raised by enemies and was lied to about it. He has reasons to be resentful but the show seems to want to shame him for it which takes away from the more complex supervillain he was and the MCU isn't exactly loaded with those.

He killed Laufey, his actual father, for Odin's approval. He wanted to kill all the Frost Giants... Even after finding out he's one.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
So wouldn't you say he has an evil/bad stroke in him if he's willing to commit genocide multiple times?

He's got a bad streak in him, yes. But remember how Thor was... Eager for war against them, too. He had a real bigotry towards them.

He wanted to kill those who didn't want him.

Anyway...
 

longdi

Banned
loki character is probably like this, notwithstanding mcu retcon for ticket sales

 

sol_bad

Member
Is Loki's physical strength the result of some magic? He's originally a frost giant. There's only indication that magic is neutralized in the TVA realm. Also he got knocked out in 1 hit before he ever set foot in the TVA realm when before Hulk's pounding wasn't even enough to do that.

Nah, the real reason was that the writers needed Loki to go through a movie's worth of character arc in one episode because there were only 6.

Whatever the case, it's obvious that the TVA and it's agents supersedes anything that is in an actual reality. If they need to prune a Thanos or Eternity or Living Tribunal from a time line they kind of need to supersede any power that is within a reality.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
He's got a bad streak in him, yes. But remember how Thor was... Eager for war against them, too. He had a real bigotry towards them.

He wanted to kill those who didn't want him.

Anyway...
Yes, Loki's history is one of the more developed and complex ones for MCU supervillains and Loki season 1 does him a disservice which how fast he breaks down and changes his act.
 
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Ulysses 31

Member
Whatever the case, it's obvious that the TVA and it's agents supersedes anything that is in an actual reality. If they need to prune a Thanos or Eternity or Living Tribunal from a time line they kind of need to supersede any power that is within a reality.
Sure but don't you think answers to those questions should at least alluded to by now because now since the rules under which the TVA operate in is still vague and that makes it harder to have stakes IMO.

Child Sylvie escaping by stomping on a TVA agent foot raises questions of how powerful and competent the TVA actually is.
 
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DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Yes, Loki's history is one of the more developed and complex ones for MCU supervillains and Loki season 1 does him a disservice which how fast he breaks down and changes his act.

How is it a disservice?

Loki is the hero. This is HIS show. The audience is supposed to like him.
Remember, he died a hero in Infinity War
 
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