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News London Bridge attack: two members of public killed and police shoot suspect dead

matt404au

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Aka a domestic terrorist
Domestic terrorist implies it was the local culture that failed. In this case, a foreign terrorist ideology was inculcated in him domestically (if you want to be so pedantic). That's a failure of the state in ensuring cultural integration of immigrants. If you can't (or won't) integrate your immigrants, don't import them at all.
 

funkygunther

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Domestic terrorist implies it was the local culture that failed. In this case, a foreign terrorist ideology was inculcated in him domestically (if you want to be so pedantic). That's a failure of the state in ensuring cultural integration of immigrants. If you can't (or won't) integrate your immigrants, don't import them at all.
If I want to be so pedantic? You literally replied to my factual statement with an utterly pointless "well acccttuaally". The more exchanges I have with you the more of a clueless joker you seem to be.

The original post about immigrant vs immigrant is not true, you trying to turn this into integration of citizens is a new topic.
 
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PKM

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If I want to be so pedantic? You literally replied to my factual statement with an utterly pointless "well acccttuaally". The more exchanges I have with you the more of a clueless joker you seem to be.

The original post about immigrant vs immigrant is not true, you trying to turn this into integration of citizens is a new topic.
Immigrants or not, it seems to be a silent invasion that progressives, like are own, are facilitating.


When I think the UK..I dont imagine ^^
 
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matt404au

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If I want to be so pedantic? You literally replied to my factual statement with an utterly pointless "well acccttuaally". The more exchanges I have with you the more of a clueless joker you seem to be.

The original post about immigrant vs immigrant is not true, you trying to turn this into integration of citizens is a new topic.
My point is that you are wilfully misconstruing others’ points and playing the semantics game. Clearly this guy’s upbringing failed to instil British culture into him and he ended up being inculcated with a foreign terrorist ideology. Yeah, he was a citizen, but he was not culturally integrated. That’s a failure of the state and calling him a domestic terrorist is a deflection from the fact that he was committing acts in the name of a foreign terrorist ideology. You’re trying to paint him as a British terrorist when his ideology was anything but British.
 

funkygunther

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Well yeah no shit the system failed but the homegrown bunch are way more notorious than the 1st gens. Would recommend watching Four Lions.
 

funkygunther

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My point is that you are wilfully misconstruing others’ points and playing the semantics game. Clearly this guy’s upbringing failed to instil British culture into him and he ended up being inculcated with a foreign terrorist ideology. Yeah, he was a citizen, but he was not culturally integrated. That’s a failure of the state and calling him a domestic terrorist is a deflection from the fact that he was committing acts in the name of a foreign terrorist ideology. You’re trying to paint him as a British terrorist when his ideology was anything but British.
I'm not misconstruing a literal 1:1 translation, you're really twisting yourself into a pretzel here. He is a domestic terrorist by any other definition other than your one which, in your own words, relies on implying something that only you were thinking of.
 

matt404au

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I'm not misconstruing a literal 1:1 translation, you're really twisting yourself into a pretzel here. He is a domestic terrorist by any other definition other than your one which, in your own words, relies on implying something that only you were thinking of.
Let me spell it out real simply for you since you appear to be a complete fucking idiot: despite being born in Britain, this guy was not British.
 

matt404au

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Yes, I know that's your opinion.
Maybe in your tabula rasa fantasy land where people are interchangeable and hence disposable, you may have a point. However, in the real world, a nationality is more than just what’s printed on your birth certificate. It comes with a responsibility — an implicit social contract — to adhere to a set of common cultural values. Last I checked, killing the infidels was not a British cultural value. Maybe it will be in a few short years if you lot keep getting your way, but not yet.
 

funkygunther

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Maybe in your tabula rasa fantasy land where people are interchangeable and hence disposable, you may have a point. However, in the real world, a nationality is more than just what’s printed on your birth certificate. It comes with a responsibility — an implicit social contract — to adhere to a set of common cultural values. Last I checked, killing the infidels was not a British cultural value. Maybe it will be in a few short years if you lot keep getting your way, but not yet.
This has been a nice straw man for you to just rant into, I get it. However, as you can't read the original poster's mind about what he thinks a migrant is and you dont really know what a domestic terrorist is without inventing your own definition I'll just have to leave you shouting your vitriol into the abyss.
 
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matt404au

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This has been a nice straw man for you to just rant into, I get it. However, as you can't read the original poster's mind about what he thinks a migrant is and you dont really know what a domestic terrorist is without inventing your own definition I'll just have to leave you shouting your vitriol into the abyss.
Enjoy your caliphate
 

Whitesnake

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This has been a nice straw man for you to just rant into, I get it. However, as you can't read the original poster's mind about what he thinks a migrant is and you dont really know what a domestic terrorist is without inventing your own definition I'll just have to leave you shouting your vitriol into the abyss.
Bro you’re fucking British, any trash-talk you might try to spew is being drowned out from the sound of everyone laughing at your shithole country.
 

Doc Honk

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What about Islamic then? Was he Islamic?

Also, you're replying to a comment about a journalist who was making an inadequate comparison. There are many Polish who come to the UK and commit crime. Google "Exeter Polish rapist" for a savage example from my pretty peaceful hometown. Obviously, I know Polish who settled there who were excellent hardworking people too. National identity and skin colour do not make one good or bad, courageous or weak.

Can we not just just call it what it is? An example of Islam showing its true colors?
 

Doc Honk

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Honestly, Corbyn is a tosser. How can anyone vote for a man like this is beyond me. Oh wait, muh free internet, uni fees and the rich paying more taxes!
So, Corbyn is in favour of arresting terrorist leaders in suicide vests rather as opposed to use of [arguably lesser] deadly force, but should they be arrested and convicted then they shouldn't necessarily be expected to carry out the sentence assigned to them.

If this wannabe PM's touch is any softer on proven terrorists then he'd be giving them free housing, healthcare and jobs and a fucking Xbox.
 
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As for the rise of the "victims death shouldn't be used to further discussion on draconian punishments" statements:

You can't really get more draconian than killing people in the name of your god.
You want to be draconian expect a draconian response.
 
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So, Corbyn is in favour of arresting terrorist leaders in suicide vests rather as opposed to use of [arguably lesser] deadly force, but should they be arrested and convicted then they shouldn't necessarily be expected to carry out the sentence assigned to them.

If this wannabe PM's touch is any softer on proven terrorists then he'd be giving them free housing, healthcare and jobs and a fucking Xbox.
Yes, he's in favour of arresting suicide vest wearers, strongly opposes "shoot to kill" policy. Said this back in 2015 although he has now back tracked (desperately trying to improve the polls reading)


He's also in favour of letting anyone back in that fled the country to join an enemy of the state.

He really is a disgusting individual. I could go on forever.
 
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Yes, he's in favour of arresting suicide vest wearers, strongly opposes "shoot to kill" policy. Said this back in 2015 although he has now back tracked (desperately trying to improve the polls reading)


He's also in favour of letting anyone back in that fled the country to join an enemy of the state.

He really is a disgusting individual. I could go on forever.
2014:
 
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From that article:


Where is Jeremy's "unequivocal condemnation" for the slaughter of two innocent people and the harming of further innocents in the capital of the country he is campaigning to lead?

Be soft on crime? OK, be soft on ALL crime.
Be hard on crime? OK, be hard on ALL crime.
 
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Talk of how this is 'an isolated incident' (2017 London Bridge terror attack says hello.) and 'now is not the time' to discuss criminal policy.

So, firstly, this is blatantly false in terms of it being isolated. Even the same area in London 2 years ago. Good to know we're denying such minor events from so far back in history with such claims.

And now is absolutely the time for such discussion, given how current policy is obviously failing and that the current doubling-down of the kid-gloves approach of rehabilitation has been demonstrated, at great cost, to not work.

How many more lives need to be lost before policies change. Or do we just keep calling every instance 'isolated' and keep lying instead of dealing with people getting killed??

---

Notice the very very stark contrast to genuinely isolated incidents such as the filmed psychopathic rampage on a mosque in New Zealand earlier this year.
No talk of 'isolated' - in fact it was the very opposite. An genuinely isolated event was used to smear and guilt an entire demographic.
Far-reaching policies were created in mere instants - to punish anyone distributing wrongthink against the narrative, to swiftly remove rights from innocent people in the name of 'safety'.

A complete polar opposite to what we're seeing here.

I also note that a number of people of this community who participated in the guilt projection narrative of that event, shaming and accusing, demanding action and change.
Not a single one of those people, apparently so virtuous and so interested in justice and compassion, have managed to show their faces in this topic.

We live in an age of the right kind of sexism, racism and ageism.
Are we really going to be living in an age of the right kind of terrorism too?

Fuck terrorists of any type.
Fuck the cunts that sympathise with any of them.
Fuck any cunt that demonstrates a view that shows they regard some human lives to be worth less than other human lives. Utter scum.

If you're campaigning to govern a nation and you're not going to take a stand when terrorists are taking innocent lives in the streets then you are not fit to govern.
 
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Greedings

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This discussion reminds me of a conversation I had in Belgium.
I was speaking to a taxi driver and asked him where he was from. He said he was Moroccan, but was born in Belgium.
I was a little confused. If you’re born in a country, lived in the country your whole life, how are you not, in this example, Belgian? He said it was not his home.

if you believe this man is British, you’re severely mistaken.
 

Tesseract

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p. sure i said london bridge attacks were inevitable a few weeks ago

feel for you duders over there, hope you figure i tout
 
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Why was he automatically released after 8 years?
Here is where there is real confusion.

In 2008 Labour introduced changes that affected extended sentences.

Offenders serving them were no longer reviewed by the Parole Board - instead they were released automatically halfway through their sentence.

The change was in part to deal with the problem of a prison population that had swelled due to the numbers of dangerous prisoners who had been given IPPs (Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP). IPPs were a highly controversial new kind of sentence introduced by Labour in England and Wales, under the Criminal Justice Act of 2003) and could not be released because they could not prove they no longer posed a risk to the public.

However, extended sentences were changed again by the Conservative-led coalition government in December 2012.

From that date offenders like Khan serving a custodial period of more than 10 years would serve two thirds of their sentence and then be considered for release by the Parole Board. This was not applied retrospectively though so did not apply to Khan.

So, in effect, he was the beneficiary of a period between 2008 and December 2012 where prisoners on extended sentences were freed automatically at the half-way point in their sentence. Before and after that period they were subject to Parole Board assessment before release.
 

Breakage

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So a convicted terrorist who was released early and was supposedly closely monitored (he was wearing electronic ankle tag) manages to launch a terror attack, which ended with two people dead and several others injured.

It's just another demonstration of how incompetent successive British governments have been in regard to law and order. Incidents such as this one are further proof (if it were needed) that the government of the day doesn't care about protecting law abiding citizens, yet many Brits will continue to maintain that the government of the day does care.
A man like Usman Khan would not be walking the streets of London if the government was tough on law and order. It's the same story in regard to knife crime. These problems wouldn't be as bad as they are if the government cared.

The politicians have predictably trotted out their usual clichés and platitudes: thoughts and prayers, hate will not divide us, our differences make us stronger, our values will prevail, the terrorists won't win, etc.
They get in early with their praise for the emergency services and the public. The police are praised for "running towards danger while everyone runs away”. Londoners are praised for coming together and being courageous. Stories of multicultural heroism are found and splashed across the press to show London's vibrant diversity in all its glory. This time round it was a Polish guy.

The Metropolitan Police commissioner said:

[London] is a great city because we embrace each other's differences.

We must emerge stronger still from this tragedy. In doing that we will ensure that the few who seek to divide us will never, ever succeed.


Insincerity and cowardice are the orders of the day. It all gets very sentimental. It's almost as if the terrorist attack is welcomed for the way it causes people to buy flowers and light candles. “Questions must be answered” and “lessons must be learned”, they say time and time again.
Mainstream media commentators pretend to care about the growing threat while cowardly avoiding pointing to a specific group.

The British response to terror is so scripted and insincere. But many Brits will eat it up and those in power know this. That's why politicians can get away with bullshitting their way into positions of power, pretending to care about protecting good people from bad people.

British society revels in lies and many have short memories.
Theresa May, the former PM, said at the time of the last London Bridge attack in 2017 that “enough is enough”:

Clearly enough is not yet enough.

The current Home Secretary gave the Home Office 72 hours to solve the problem of illegal immigration via the English Channel:

This ultimatum was issued in August. There was no mention of what would happen if the problem wasn't solved. Of course this was omitted because it's all about creating the illusion that something is being done – a common characteristic across various government departments. Unsurprisingly illegal immigration still continues.

Nothing will change. This will soon blow over until the next one.
Many Brits like to hear what they want to hear. It doesn't matter if it's a load of BS so far removed from reality – if it sounds good and it makes feel good about themselves then it can only be good thing.
A society that repeatedly lies to itself to the extent that British society lies to itself deserves to rot.
 
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matt404au

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So a convicted terrorist who was released early and was supposedly closely monitored (he was wearing electronic ankle tag) manages to launch a terror attack, which ended with two people dead and several others injured.

It's just another demonstration of how incompetent successive British governments have been in regard to law and order. Incidents such as this one are further proof (if it were needed) that the government of the day doesn't care about protecting law abiding citizens, yet many Brits will continue to maintain that the government of the day does care.
A man like Usman Khan would not be walking the streets of London if the government was tough on law and order. It's the same story in regard to knife crime. These problems wouldn't be as bad as they are if the government cared.

The politicians have predictably trotted out their usual clichés and platitudes: thoughts and prayers, hate will not divide us, our differences make us stronger, our values will prevail, the terrorists won't win, etc.
They get in early with their praise for the emergency services and the public. The police are praised for "running towards danger while everyone runs away”. Londoners are praised for coming together and being courageous. Stories of multicultural heroism are found and splashed across the press to show London's vibrant diversity in all its glory. This time round it was a Polish guy.

The Metropolitan Police commissioner said:

[London] is a great city because we embrace each other's differences.

We must emerge stronger still from this tragedy. In doing that we will ensure that the few who seek to divide us will never, ever succeed.


Insincerity and cowardice are the orders of the day. It all gets very sentimental. It's almost as if the terrorist attack is welcomed for the way it causes people to buy flowers and light candles. “Questions must be answered” and “lessons must be learned”, they say time and time again.
Mainstream media commentators pretend to care about the growing threat while cowardly avoiding pointing to a specific group.

The British response to terror is so scripted and insincere. But many Brits will eat it up and those in power know this. That's why politicians can get away with bullshitting their way into positions of power, pretending to care about protecting good people from bad people.

British society revels in lies and many have short memories.
Theresa May, the former PM, said at the time of the last London Bridge attack in 2017 that “enough is enough”:

Clearly enough is not yet enough.

The current Home Secretary gave the Home Office 72 hours to solve the problem of illegal immigration via the English Channel:

This ultimatum was issued in August. There was no mention of what would happen if the problem wasn't solved. Of course this was omitted because it's all about creating the illusion that something is being done – a common characteristic across various government departments. Unsurprisingly illegal immigration still continues.

Nothing will change. This will soon blow over until the next one.
Many Brits like to hear what they want to hear. It doesn't matter if it's a load of BS so far removed from reality – if it sounds good and it makes feel good about themselves then it can only be good thing.
A society that repeatedly lies to itself to the extent that British society lies to itself deserves to rot.
FOBLAR
 
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womfalcs3

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This is sarcasm right?

You do know outside of the Quran there is zero historical evidence that any of those men knew any theology that is remotely close to resembling Islamic theology.
The Hebrew Bible/Torah/Judaism are more strict than the Quran/Islam. Islam was a version of God's religion that was moderate... Judaism was too strict, and Christianity too lax.

But their associated messengers were sent to different people at different times. Those people needed different things.
 
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matt404au

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The Hebrew Bible/Torah/Judaism are more strict than the Quran/Islam. Islam was a version of God's religion that was moderate... Judaism was too strict, and Christianity too lax.

But their associated messengers were sent to different people at different times. Those people needed different things.
Is this like a fucked up version of Goldilocks where she finds the religion that's juuuuuust right then it turns out to be a bear that decapitates her?
 

funkygunther

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So there are 74 other terrorists released early currently out and about. And that's a figure the prime minister is happy to tell the public.
 
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Right, Wrong. Blame the clowns for cutting the police force to a wafer thin slice.
The police force were active in stopping this act of terrorism getting worse. You are making a(nother) bad argument.

Who allowed an incarcerated terrorist to be freed ahead of their sentence being served?
That's a rhetorical question because the answer is already in this thread - but you'd have to actually read the thread to know that. That obviously requires more effort that turning up, spewing a(nother) hot-take and then scuttling back under your rock. 🤷‍♀️
 
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azz0r

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The police force were active in stopping this act of terrorism getting worse. You are making a(nother) bad argument.

Who allowed an incarcerated terrorist to be freed ahead of their sentence being served?
That's a rhetorical question because the answer is already in this thread - but you'd have to actually read the thread to know that. That obviously requires more effort that turning up, spewing a(nother) hot-take and then scuttling back under your rock. 🤷‍♀️
So you don't think the amount of police in the UK is an issue?
 
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zeorhymer

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So there are 74 other terrorists released early currently out and about. And that's a figure the prime minister is happy to tell the public.
Boris is more than happy to say that it was under Labour's watch that led to all of this mess. Also, Jeremy Corbin says that "terrorists, should not be forced to serve their full sentences in prison," for some weird logic that if they're good in prison, that they should be set free.
 
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So you don't think the amount of police in the UK is an issue?
It is AN issue.
It is not the driving factor in this topic.
The actual police intervention (that you blithely opt to ignore) that occurred prevented a bad situation being made worse.
And due to this I won't honour your effort to distract and derail with it any further.
 

desertdroog

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Poland gives highest award to Lukasz for his quick action to help thwart the Islamist extremist on the London Bridge. How long until he gets his Hussar Wings?