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News London Bridge attack: two members of public killed and police shoot suspect dead

funkygunther

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Boris is more than happy to say that it was under Labour's watch that led to all of this mess. Also, Jeremy Corbin says that "terrorists, should not be forced to serve their full sentences in prison," for some weird logic that if they're good in prison, that they should be set free.
The guy was sentenced 2 years into a Tory government and released 8 years into one so they were cool with it at the time anyway. Corbyn gave a diplomatic answer to a hypothetical question, something that doesnt go down well at the best of times let alone after something like this. He just can't learn.
 
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funkygunther

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This discussion reminds me of a conversation I had in Belgium.
I was speaking to a taxi driver and asked him where he was from. He said he was Moroccan, but was born in Belgium.
I was a little confused. If you’re born in a country, lived in the country your whole life, how are you not, in this example, Belgian? He said it was not his home.

if you believe this man is British, you’re severely mistaken.
It's not a belief. But I see you also want to play the "what is British really?" game too. So let's get on with it.

I know one thing that makes people British, and that's a British citizenship. By birthright, this guy had British citizenship making him British. If you want to dispute that you can tell me why.

What is a belief is your arbitrary rules of an apparent British identity, subjective criteria I have had no wish to indulge in this thread although I'm sure some of those criteria are absolute doozies.
 

The Janitor

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Poland gives highest award to Lukasz for his quick action to help thwart the Islamist extremist on the London Bridge. How long until he gets his Hussar Wings?

He grabbed a narwhal tusk? :messenger_tears_of_joy:
What a legend.
 

azz0r

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It is AN issue.
It is not the driving factor in this topic.
The actual police intervention (that you blithely opt to ignore) that occurred prevented a bad situation being made worse.
And due to this I won't honour your effort to distract and derail with it any further.
You know you'd do a better job of getting your point across if you stopped being such an offended little bitch.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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It's not a belief. But I see you also want to play the "what is British really?" game too. So let's get on with it.

I know one thing that makes people British, and that's a British citizenship. By birthright, this guy had British citizenship making him British. If you want to dispute that you can tell me why.

What is a belief is your arbitrary rules of an apparent British identity, subjective criteria I have had no wish to indulge in this thread although I'm sure some of those criteria are absolute doozies.
Having citizenship isn't the same as being "British". Just like having an American citizenship doesn't automatically make you "American". Step one for being either identity is sharing common values that "Americans" and "British" hold.

Same as I could go get a Japanese citizenship and never become "Japanese".
 

Kenpachii

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The victim's father implying that terrorists serving their full sentence is some kind of hate filled notion. Has to be said, guy's a fucking idiot.
That's why he's a victim farther now.

Or maybe he just hates his family :messenger_anxious:
 
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funkygunther

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Having citizenship isn't the same as being "British". Just like having an American citizenship doesn't automatically make you "American". Step one for being either identity is sharing common values that "Americans" and "British" hold.

Same as I could go get a Japanese citizenship and never become "Japanese".
You can keep insisting this as many times as you want but it doesn’t make it any more true. Having British citizenship makes you British. Now, what makes you “British”, again, is a matter for debate.

Either way, he wasn’t a migrant and he was a British citizen. In the eyes of the law he’s British regardless of what you may think. It’s really very clear. His nationality when it comes to his citizenship is British. The identity part is bogus and a dead end of loose arbitrary definitions, you can personally identify as whatever you want.
 
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NickFire

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So you don't think the amount of police in the UK is an issue?
Would it matter if there were 2 cops for every citizen? The reactions to a certain type of atrocities by a certain political mindset that gets unfathomable support there, suggests to me that even with 2 cops for every citizen the police would not do a thing because they'd be ordered to stay tolerant of funerals, and focus on big ticket crimes like mean words.
 

Cybrwzrd

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The identity part is bogus and a dead end of loose arbitrary definitions, you can personally identify as whatever you want.
Can I identify as African American?
 
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Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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As whatever you want, don't expect people to take you all that seriously when you do though.
So if people don’t think he is really British is that ok then?
 
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funkygunther

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So if people don’t think he is really British is that ok then?
Like I already said they can have their opinion, as long as they understand that is an opinion and arent conflating nationality with identity. I didn't care for discussing the subjectivity of identity here anyway.
 
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Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
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Like I already said they can have their opinion, as long as they understand that is an opinion and arent conflating nationality with identity. I didn't care for discussing the subjectivity of identity here anyway.
You are kind of the one who started it.
 
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sahlberg

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It's not a belief. But I see you also want to play the "what is British really?" game too. So let's get on with it.

I know one thing that makes people British, and that's a British citizenship. By birthright, this guy had British citizenship making him British. If you want to dispute that you can tell me why.

What is a belief is your arbitrary rules of an apparent British identity, subjective criteria I have had no wish to indulge in this thread although I'm sure some of those criteria are absolute doozies.
If it had been Australia. When he got convicted he would have been stripped off his australian citizenship and once the sentence was
served he would be deported to whatever other country he might be able to claim citizenship in.
Maybe his grandmother was from some place, then send him there and let them sort shit out.

That is how we do it. It works well.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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If it had been Australia. When he got convicted he would have been stripped off his australian citizenship and once the sentence was
served he would be deported to whatever other country he might be able to claim citizenship in.
Maybe his grandmother was from some place, then send him there and let them sort shit out.

That is how we do it. It works well.
Terrorism should be treated like treason. I'd argue that is a better solution than just shipping them off somewhere to radicalize others who can work in their name.
 

Breakage

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The UK is obsessed with stamping out “hate”. Views that aren't leftwing are increasingly reframed as expressions of hatred. This attack itself has been euphemistically reframed as an act of hatred. People here are encouraged to “hope not hate”. In the UK it's no longer the West versus Islam. Instead the syrupy hope over hatred narrative is preferable among the do-gooders.
Look at this speech made by the London mayor and notice how it's all about coming together to defeat “hatred”:


The comments made by the father of the dead young man only further reinforce this new hope not hate narrative. That his son was mercilessly killed by a Islamic terrorist clearly hasn't disabused him of his naïve leftist views. No doubt a society that is so weak it values political correctness over the security of its citizens will only bring more comfort to the terrorists.
 
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The UK is obsessed with stamping out “hate”. Views that aren't leftwing are increasingly reframed as expressions of hatred. This attack itself has been euphemistically reframed as an act of hatred. People here are encouraged to “hope not hate”. In the UK it's no longer the West versus Islam. Instead the syrupy hope over hatred narrative is preferable among the do-gooders.
Look at this speech made by the London mayor and notice how it's all about coming together to defeat “hatred”:


The comments made by the father of the dead young man only further reinforce this new hope not hate narrative. That his son was mercilessly killed by a Islamic terrorist clearly hasn't disabused him of his naïve leftist views. No doubt a society that is so weak it values political correctness over the security of its citizens will only bring more comfort to the terrorists.
Terrorists pick on easy targets.

It's of no surprise that no Islamic group has had the balls to go up against China who rules with an iron fist that region near the border with cameras everywhere. Tons of Muslim people being treated like cattle with an evil eye snooping around everywhere.

When was the last time any Islamic group of liberators tried to do anything about it?

Never. Because they'd get their asses beaten so bad by ruthless counterattacks by Chinese guards, they know not to do anything.

But against western countries where you get thrown in jail (maybe) and you got a system that tolerates it with prison (maybe), and get a lawyer to help you get off, if I was a Terrorist, I'd pick a western target too.

Who the fuck wants to test their luck with Chinese cops and government who can swoop in and make you disappear for good, while a western city will give you a defence lawyer in the first two hours?
 
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funkygunther

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If it had been Australia. When he got convicted he would have been stripped off his australian citizenship and once the sentence was
served he would be deported to whatever other country he might be able to claim citizenship in.
Maybe his grandmother was from some place, then send him there and let them sort shit out.

That is how we do it. It works well.
What a load of posturing bollocks. Ihsas Khan is still in your prison isn't he? If you're so strict why even have 36 years of him living off you, the humble tax payer, and not stripped of citizenship immediately?

In fact, I'm having trouble finding any cases about stripping of citizenship and then deporting so please link some.
 
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sahlberg

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What a load of posturing bollocks. Ihsas Khan is still in your prison isn't he? If you're so strict why even have 36 years of him living off you, the humble tax payer, and not stripped of citizenship immediately?

In fact, I'm having trouble finding any cases about stripping of citizenship and then deporting so please link some.
Here you go ( 3 minute google search of what happened in the last few months. Your google-fu is lacking.)



Then you had some real fucker that was here under a protection visa (because he would be killed if he went back home)
that molested a child at a mall.
Fuck him, protection visa revoked and fend for yourself when you get back to where you came from :

These ex citizens are not coming back to australia either:
(I recall an article recently that all three of her innocent children had died in that camp. That is very sad, they were innocent to her crimes, but she is never setting foot in australia again.)

This all has absolutely massive public support in australia. You feel bad for them? You take them on then. They are never setting foot on australian soil ever again.


Living in australia or being a CITIZEN is a privilege not a right. And it can be revoked easily if you are unsuitable or undesireable for our country.
 
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Am I the only one that finds funkygunther funkygunther 's demands for others to provide evidence supremely ironic after the shitshow they just performed elsewhere - refusing to provide evidence for his own claims?

He favours the guilty-until-proven-innocent mentality of everyone else having to work to prove his evidence-free claims false rather than him actually being honest and providing his own evidence for his own claims.

I fully recommend giving this clown a taste of his own medicine.

(Oh. I appear to have made a claim just now. I guess it's 100% true even though I haven't provided evidence for it. Wheeeeee!)
 

funkygunther

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Here you go


Then you had some real fucker that was here under a protection visa (because he would be killed if he went back home)
that molested a child at a mall.
Fuck him, protection visa revoked and fend for yourself when you get back to where you came from :

These ex citizens are not coming back to australia either:


This all has absolutely massive public support in australia. You feel bad for them? You take them on then. They are never setting foot on australian soil ever again.


Living in australia or being a CITIZEN is a privilege not a right. And it can be revoked easily if you are unsuitable or undesireable for our country.
Even reading up on some of your law, it only applies to dual nationals. You say "they" but from reading the article what happened was only Prakash was stripped of citizenship, this Dutton guy said "he's Fijian" as an excuse to why its constitutionally allowed (it's not). Something that looks like a political move considering there was a new bill on the way, and he became stateless due to a minister playing the grey area of the law? I'm hoping for you that it does become law to strip single nationals of their citizenship one day.
 
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funkygunther

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Am I the only one that finds funkygunther funkygunther 's demands for others to provide evidence supremely ironic after the shitshow they just performed elsewhere - refusing to provide evidence for his own claims?

He favours the guilty-until-proven-innocent mentality of everyone else having to work to prove his evidence-free claims false rather than him actually being honest and providing his own evidence for his own claims.

I fully recommend giving this clown a taste of his own medicine.

(Oh. I appear to have made a claim just now. I guess it's 100% true even though I haven't provided evidence for it. Wheeeeee!)
Imagine ever being this upset
 

sahlberg

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Even reading up on some of your law, it only applies to dual nationals. You say "they" but from reading the article it wa what happened was only Prakash was stripped of citizenship, this Dutton guy said "he's Fijian" as an excuse to why its constitutionally allowed. Something that looks like a political move considering there was a new bill on the way, and he became stateless due to a minister playing the grey area of the law? I'm hoping for you that it does become law to strip single nationals of their citizenship one day.
Use google.
Your initial clam was that you could not find any case. I provided you several links after 3 minutes of searching.
You then get sand in the vg and now it is about something different?

You can easily search and find examples of "citizenship stripped, he can claim citizenship in the place we deported him to".
I gave you links to people stripped of citizenship and deported because you claimed it never happened.
You were wrong.

You then ask me for more links because goalpost moved,
I say, NO, go search google yourself. It is there for you to find. I am not your secretary.
You can take these people on and get them to UK. That is fine with us.


Other countries are not as meek as the UK when dealing with undesirables. Deal with it.
 
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Imagine ever being this upset
Not upset at all, just reminding people that you don't read and aren't honest or credible.

I see you make no effort beyond projecting appeal to emotion as a counterpoint.

Gee, that showed me. Huh? Good work.

You then ask me for more links because goalpost moved,
I say, NO, go search google yourself. It is there for you to find. I am not your secretary.
funkygunther funkygunther moving goalposts, changing rules and demanding everyone else run around and jump when he says jump?

Imagine my shock.
 
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funkygunther

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Use google.
Your initial clam was that you could not find any case. I provided you several links after 3 minutes of searching.
You then get sand in the vg and now it is about something different?

You can easily search and find examples of "citizenship stripped, he can claim citizenship in the place we deported him to".
I gave you links to people stripped of citizenship and deported because you claimed it never happened.
You were wrong.

You then ask me for more links because goalpost moved,
I say, NO, go search google yourself. It is there for you to find. I am not your secretary.
You can take these people on and get them to UK. That is fine with us.


Other countries are not as meek as the UK when dealing with undesirables. Deal with it.
Thanks for the Parakash link, that was new and yes, that is one incident of single national having their citizenship revoked. The rest are dual national though right? It's not moving goalposts when you yourself referred to grandmothers, implying you weren't talking of dual citizenship. Well Britain does the same with dual nationals too, so I thought by coming in here you knew that already and would be claiming that Australia does something different to single nationals would be an easier case to prove.
 
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Doc Honk

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Breakage Breakage I could see the conflation between the current use of the word hate with this attack too, and I think it is weird too.

So now we can say Islam is a religion of hate then?

The father is sick to suggest his son would have sympathised with the attacker. It's one thing to research the prison system and another to have to be sliced to death by a maniac of said system.

I feel I need to start emphasizing that not being allowed to identify what is at play here is really not true compassion. We are protecting nobody by saying this is an attack of hate. The modern left have twisted the basic understanding of compassion into something harmful.
 

funkygunther

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Not upset at all, just reminding people that you don't read and aren't honest or credible.

I see you make no effort beyond projecting appeal to emotion as a counterpoint.

Gee, that showed me. Huh? Good work.


funkygunther funkygunther moving goalposts, changing rules and demanding everyone else run around and jump when he says jump?

Imagine my shock.
I respect the intelligence of users enough to make their own mind up about my, and in your case other users, character or characters. Clearly you don't, as evidenced by needing to "remind" people completely off topic of the contempt you have for another user.
 
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sahlberg

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Thanks for the Parakash link, that was new and yes, that is one incident of single national having their citizenship revoked. The rest are dual national though right?
No. We deport a lot of people.
When stripping citizenship of people we use the same metric as we use for members of parliament.
You do not have to be officially a dual citizen. For example: IF by birthright you COULD be legible for citizenship in other country (england or nz most commonly) you are considered a de-facto dual citizen.
And for example you can not be a member of parliament.
Quite a lot of mp's had to resign/be kicked out of parliament recently and go through the motions to denounce their citizenship rights for <other country>. There is a lot of articles about this in recent years. Labor party had a lot of MPs that were kicked out of parliament when they started this process. (footgun)

So, technically. Even if you are NOT a dual citizen. If we want to deport you and you have relations or ancestors that make it possible
to claim reasonably you "could be a fijian" we strip you and deport your ass
(You are no longer then a concern of us. If you end up stateless, that is not our problem. Maybe you and the UN can write us a harsh letter about it ?)
<You can technically get citizenship of <xyz>> covers basically 90% of the population and probably 99.9% of the terrorist prone part of the population.

You can have the rest of them terrorists that we can't deport if you want. As long as we get rid of them. Otherwise we just ship them to Manus Island and let then think about what to do.


It's not moving goalposts when you yourself referred to grandmothers, implying you weren't talking of dual citizenship. Well Britain does the same with dual nationals too, so I thought by coming in here you knew that already and would be claiming that Australia does something different to single nationals would be an easier case to prove.
Britain does not do the same things.
You accept ISIS soldiers and wifes back into your country.
You don't deport terrorists.

Instead you let a known terrorist out of jail, onto your streets, after just half the sentence, with no monitoring or nothing so he can just keep killing people.
That is the part that would never happen in australia.
 
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sahlberg

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Thanks for the Parakash link, that was new and yes, that is one incident of single national having their citizenship revoked. The rest are dual national though right? It's not moving goalposts when you yourself referred to grandmothers, implying you weren't talking of dual citizenship. Well Britain does the same with dual nationals too, so I thought by coming in here you knew that already and would be claiming that Australia does something different to single nationals would be an easier case to prove.
* You: it never happened!
* I : show links to it happening
* You : link only shows it happened once and therefore it does not count
* I : what? <CARRIER LOST>
 

SirKicksalot

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Breakage Breakage I could see the conflation between the current use of the word hate with this attack too, and I think it is weird too.

So now we can say Islam is a religion of hate then?

The father is sick to suggest his son would have sympathised with the attacker. It's one thing to research the prison system and another to have to be sliced to death by a maniac of said system.

I feel I need to start emphasizing that not being allowed to identify what is at play here is really not true compassion. We are protecting nobody by saying this is an attack of hate. The modern left have twisted the basic understanding of compassion into something harmful.

Literally modern martyrdom, except the ancient version rewarded you with an afterlife in Heaven and the modern version gives you like a week on social media.
 
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I respect the intelligence of users enough to make their own mind up about my, and in your case other users, character or characters. Clearly you don't, as evidenced by needing to "remind" people completely off topic of the contempt you have for another user.
Still going with projecting emotion huh? Very smart. That just worked out so well for you the last time you tried it.
I see you're also attempt to build up your narrative and angling for some victimhood too.

No, you misrepresent and attempt to steamroll your opinion over others, laying baseless accusations, obfuscation and shitting up threads when something pops up that you don't like the sound of.

'As evidenced' in your utter shitshow in the other thread where I gave you enough rope to hang yourself.
And your performance in this thread, whilst not quite the stinking mess you left elsewhere, certainly bears the same aroma.
It seems I'm far from the only one calling your bullshit out.

Here you are, streamrolling over your own failures once again, performing the same antics and trying to control conversation - making everyone work to support your views whilst you cherry-pick the parts you like and don't like.

You don't read.
You aren't honest.
You are not sincere.
You are not credible.

I have evidence of my claims.
But I don't need to use it because, as per your own rhetoric, my claim about you is true until you can prove to my satisfaction that it's not.
 
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matt404au

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The guy was sentenced 2 years into a Tory government and released 8 years into one so they were cool with it at the time anyway. Corbyn gave a diplomatic answer to a hypothetical question, something that doesnt go down well at the best of times let alone after something like this. He just can't learn.
Um wat

Laws and policies don’t just change overnight because you had a change of government.
 

matt404au

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It's not a belief. But I see you also want to play the "what is British really?" game too. So let's get on with it.

I know one thing that makes people British, and that's a British citizenship. By birthright, this guy had British citizenship making him British. If you want to dispute that you can tell me why.

What is a belief is your arbitrary rules of an apparent British identity, subjective criteria I have had no wish to indulge in this thread although I'm sure some of those criteria are absolute doozies.
Like I said, tabula rasa fantasy land
 

funkygunther

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Dec 22, 2018
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He is only british until you strip him from his citizenship and deport him somewhere else.
Why is that hard to do for terrorists?

Citizenship is a privilege not a right.
Britain does it


And in cases like Khan in Australia sometimes it doesnt and just puts them in prison instead.

All irrelevant since we're talking about the existing status of a now deceased individual. I'm glad you agree that he's British.
 

sahlberg

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And in cases like Khan in Australia sometimes it doesnt and just puts them in prison instead.
Just like every other fucker, Khan will serve out his prison term of minimum 27 years before he can be considered for parole.
At that time he will be un-australian-citizened and deported to whatever shithole want to take him. If there are no takers he will go to manus island or christmas island for life but never set foot in australia again.

I don't really care where he gets deported to as long as he never sets foot on australian soil as a free man.
Maybe he can move to your suburb and be next door best mate and neighbor with you?
Or more likely, maybe he can sit and rot away the rest of his life in some offshore detention centre.
 
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London Bridge: Family of Usman Khan 'shocked' by attack
...
In a statement issued through the Metropolitan Police, Khan's family said: "We are saddened and shocked by what Usman has done.

"We totally condemn his actions and we wish to express our condolences to the families of the victims that have died and wish a speedy recovery to all of the injured.

"We would like to request privacy for our family at this difficult time."
...
I think coming forward to issue a statement when people might just decide you're the easiest blame-target going is a strong, positive action and cannot be at all easy in today's climate. After all, these people have lost a family member as well.

I find it interesting the difference in tone and directness between the words from the family of the perpetrator and the words of one of the victim's father.
 
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Cucked SoyBoy

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You can keep insisting this as many times as you want but it doesn’t make it any more true. Having British citizenship makes you British. Now, what makes you “British”, again, is a matter for debate.

Either way, he wasn’t a migrant and he was a British citizen. In the eyes of the law he’s British regardless of what you may think. It’s really very clear. His nationality when it comes to his citizenship is British. The identity part is bogus and a dead end of loose arbitrary definitions, you can personally identify as whatever you want.

An Orc might be born in Lothlorien but it doesn't make him an Elf.
 
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RIP to the victims. Sad event.

Sad not to see one of the heroes that stopped him not getting much mention. Not the guy with the fire extinguisher or the tusk, The kitchen porter called mohammed who helped stop him unarmed and then went back to work.

The usual thread with the same shit on repeat. If it's a Muslim they're a terrorist if not then it's mental deficiency. It's always mental deficiency with these people. We all think so.
 
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This all has absolutely massive public support in australia. You feel bad for them? You take them on then. They are never setting foot on australian soil ever again.

Living in australia or being a CITIZEN is a privilege not a right. And it can be revoked easily if you are unsuitable or undesireable for our country.
Too bad most western countries don't have the balls to do that. Some reason most allow foreign asstards to stick around like one of those tangy farts in bed.
 

matt404au

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I think coming forward to issue a statement when people might just decide you're the easiest blame-target going is a strong, positive action and cannot be at all easy in today's climate. After all, these people have lost a family member as well.

I find it interesting the difference in tone and directness between the words from the family of the perpetrator and the words of one of the victim's father.
Like shocked shocked or surprised pikachu shocked?
 
Dec 15, 2011
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Sad not to see one of the heroes that stopped him not getting much mention. Not the guy with the fire extinguisher or the tusk, The kitchen porter called mohammed who helped stop him unarmed and then went back to work.

The usual thread with the same shit on repeat. If it's a Muslim they're a terrorist if not then it's mental deficiency. It's always mental deficiency with these people. We all think so.
The points you choose to raise seem to follow a theme. And, in your second sentence you are referencing the exact opposite of reality. Furthermore, in this particular topic the terrorist happened to be Muslim. If you find that an objectionable fact that feeds into objectionable statistics then perhaps you need to bring facts and statistics of your own.

Finally I don't regard 'terrorist' and 'mental deficiency' as mutually exclusive properties.