Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Solo said:
They come
They fight
They destroy
They corrupt
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Lost 06.04: "The Substitute" (dir. Cain; Belushi, Gossett Jr., Dawn Chong)
- Thread starter BenjaminBirdie
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They come
They fight
They destroy
They corrupt
DocX said:So who said "Helllp meeeee" to Locke when he was at the cabin? Theories! Stat!
Why couldn't it have been Jacob? He could have been locked up in the cabin for protection, freed inadvertantly by someone (Hurley?) and returned to the foot, waiting for Smokey to kill him.
However, I vaguely thought Ben said to Locke that it was all a hoax or was he talking about everything other than the "help me" part?
highroller
Member
I didn't look that closely but was his name on the wall? Would explain their interest in him at the Season 1 finale...Blader5489 said:
But if Ben never even talked to Jacob, not sure how he could know that Walt was the one he was after as a replacement, right?
Panda Bear
Banned
With the question about God, I have no idea. But with Jacob, I would argue, and it would be pointless since we know very little about him at this point, that the progess he's searching for requires free will. People have to make their own decisions for their own reasons. He brings them to the island so they can help protect it, sure. But I think that he allows these things to happen because he wants people to keep their free will.Nameless said:
Panda Bear
Banned
Childish? I love hockey as much as anyone else, but it's just a game...joey_z said:
So I know this has been covered a million times already in all probability, but the versions of it I read on here were not quite the same as I am thinking.
The losties are the variables in the equation obviously based on the cave wall, BUT, i don't think the equation ever changes.
I think the numbers are always the same and the people that represent each number are the variable. So for instance, I think someone is going to slot into Locke's number four slot.
So 4 8 15 16 23 42 have been the variables for hundreds of years, but Jacob keeps bringing new candidates to the island as variables to try in the equation, Once he gets the right variables in the right place "it ends."
At least that is my take on it.
The losties are the variables in the equation obviously based on the cave wall, BUT, i don't think the equation ever changes.
I think the numbers are always the same and the people that represent each number are the variable. So for instance, I think someone is going to slot into Locke's number four slot.
So 4 8 15 16 23 42 have been the variables for hundreds of years, but Jacob keeps bringing new candidates to the island as variables to try in the equation, Once he gets the right variables in the right place "it ends."
At least that is my take on it.
I think it pretty much had to have been MIB inside that cabin. It feels like the writers left all the clues, Locke and Ben having to walk over the ash on the ground surrounding the cabin, MIB saying "Help me" (i.e. "Help me get off the island"), Ben lying like always pretending to be talking to Jacob.JGS said:
Relatively speaking, he should be recognizable to casual western film fans. He's been in Speed Racer, Sunshine, The Last Samurai and Rush Hour 3, plus The Twilight Samurai and some of the Ringu movies. I was really excited when he was cast for Lost, and doubly so when it turned out his character could speak English (I didn't want to only experience him through a translator).The Big Rig said:
Nameless said:
This is another thing that doesnt make any sense given what direction they ended up taking things in. We know that Richard KNOWS Ben doesnt talk to Jacob (no one actually ever talks to Jacob outside of Richard), so why go along with this plan?
Better still, why did Richard never pipe up when Ben started going on about fertility and shit being the primary goal?
LOST S1-S3: Making Shit Up On The Fly (TM) :lol
Solo said:
I don't know if you can really assume that Richard knows everything, or that Richard talks to Jacob all the time (or at all) honestly. It seems to me that Jacob gave Richard a responsibility a long time ago, and Richard believes in his task so strongly that he does not feel the need to question it much. If his duty is to act as an advisor for the current leader of the Others, and to subsequently select the next leader of the Others, then there is no reason for him to really question the leader. If Ben says he's spoken to Jacob, then Richard accepts that because he has accepted that Ben is the leader.
zerodayPopbot
Member
Has the Clockwork Orange brainwashing thing been answered?
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
gdt5016 said:
the fact that it makes so much sense is exactly why i am for it. i see no reason for it not to be them. i guess the question is whether you just want the bodies to make sense within the context of the show's logic (that's me), or if you want to use them as some sort of cipher for reading the meaning of the entire show. i just don't think it has to be the latter.
OptimoPeach
Banned
:loljoey_z said:
sykoex said:
How could it be MIB? If the ash was keeping him in, then he wouldn't have been able to manifest as Smokie unless they started as two entities and were able to merge after the the ash was broken.
Also, Ben was apparently working for Jacob even though Jacob didn't value him which is why Richard felt Ben was the leader.
Also, Jacob had been missing in action from the crash up to the time he visits Hugo at the hospital (or possibly when he visited Illana in the hospital) meaning he was more likely to be the one who was trapped. EDIT - He also visited Sayid, but it's still that time frame.
My personal opinion has always been that there is a third person (I think of it as the Island representive) and it could have been the one in trouble too.
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
JGS said:
I tried to bring this up, that Smokie and MiB are somehow separate entities (or at least are able to separate) but everyone just scoffed at me. There's no other way to explain the "it was MiB trapped in Jacob's cabin" theory because Smokie was running around all over the place while whoever it was was residing in the cabin.
JGS said:
The cabin that holds the MIB was built during the Dharma time.
The monster was roaming when Danielle landed and it's been in the jungle ever since then, but we've never seen it explicitly before the French team wreckage (other than the statue conversation with Jacob).
I'm really hoping we'll get an indication or flashback of the MIB's original "capture" at some point this season.
Heres what I think is behind the Cabin
- Jacob started using it to give Richard orders (after Richard started bitching about having to walk to the statue every time!)
- They put the ash around it so MIB could not go in and mess with Richard
- Ash is broken (some wild boar did it? dunno lol. Or maybe it was Christian who did it)
- Jacob sees Cabin as compromised, goes back to statue
- Ben takes Locke to the Cabin knowing that Jacob no longer uses it (Either Ben found out about the cabin himself or Richard told him, either way he was never allowed to meet Jacob there)
- Jacob started using it to give Richard orders (after Richard started bitching about having to walk to the statue every time!)
- They put the ash around it so MIB could not go in and mess with Richard
- Ash is broken (some wild boar did it? dunno lol. Or maybe it was Christian who did it)
- Jacob sees Cabin as compromised, goes back to statue
- Ben takes Locke to the Cabin knowing that Jacob no longer uses it (Either Ben found out about the cabin himself or Richard told him, either way he was never allowed to meet Jacob there)
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
A lot of people pretty much make the same argument for the biblical God as you did for Jacob; they're both supposedly big proponents of human free will.Panda Bear said:
It wouldn't be a stretch to say that the Jacob character (specifically his frustratingly obtuse methods) has been a blatant God metaphor, so far anyway.
I like these points in principle so I'm not arguing, but..
But Richard also took orders from whoever he thought led the Others, including Ben & Locke. He did what they told him to even against his own better judgement.
Is there ash around the statue? It appears after this episode that Jacob has a few bases of operation and the ash wasn't a concern at them. I'm thinking the ash is more for the protection of those wishing to see Jacob because it is a deterrent for his enemy. Jacob may have only dealt with others at the cabin, but only with Richard at the statue. This may explain why Hurley was able to see the cabin since he may be a "chosen one" & why he saw others in the cabin.
I think Ben knew where the cabin was by Richard which is why Richard allowed him to venture off with Locke, the person Richard felt was the new leader. However, Richard is the mediator and Ben was never able to directly talk to Jacob which is why he was lying to Locke about talking to the invisible man in the chair.
Like I said, I'm still holding out for the possibility of a 3rd option too.
Dead said:
But Richard also took orders from whoever he thought led the Others, including Ben & Locke. He did what they told him to even against his own better judgement.
Dead said:
Is there ash around the statue? It appears after this episode that Jacob has a few bases of operation and the ash wasn't a concern at them. I'm thinking the ash is more for the protection of those wishing to see Jacob because it is a deterrent for his enemy. Jacob may have only dealt with others at the cabin, but only with Richard at the statue. This may explain why Hurley was able to see the cabin since he may be a "chosen one" & why he saw others in the cabin.
Dead said:
I think Ben knew where the cabin was by Richard which is why Richard allowed him to venture off with Locke, the person Richard felt was the new leader. However, Richard is the mediator and Ben was never able to directly talk to Jacob which is why he was lying to Locke about talking to the invisible man in the chair.
Like I said, I'm still holding out for the possibility of a 3rd option too.
Nameless
Member
joey_z said:
communist
Solo said:
Richard knows Ben is full of it, but he's not going to out right challenge him in that situation. Richard had made it known that he disagrees with Ben's focus on fertility issues and the like, and he's already going behind is back trying to bring Locke into the leadership role. Ben lies, that's modus operandi, being the big fish and name dropping the bigger fish is an easy one to justify questionable command decisions.
Nameless said:
The way that story develops in my mind is amazing.
I think Jacob chose Ben as the leader, but Ben was hindered by his love for his daughter which was the main reason he was trying to solve the fertility issue. He knew his daughter and her boyfriend were inevitably going to hook up. Widmore was correct from an Others standpoint that Ben should have killed Rousseau & Alex.
Since he lost his focus, Richard had lost confidence in Ben & Jacob was just using him all along in the first place. Locke, especially after the overwhelming amount of prophetic proofs, was the chosen one to Richard- especially since he was cold-blooded enough to kill his own dad. However, it appears that Richard thought he was the chosen one without consulting Jacob about it.
Ironically, Locke not being the one to kill his dad showed he was not qualified as a leader of the Others since he couldn't actually go through with it. Since he was unqualified while everyone else thought he was the man (Including Locke himself), this made him the perfect stooge for Smokie UnLocke.
Not sure if anybody commented on the most recent "NEVER SEEN LOST" yet:
http://neverseenlost.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/episode-3-of-the-final-season-of-lost/
http://neverseenlost.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/episode-3-of-the-final-season-of-lost/
The Big Rig
Member
I think this is the biggest barrier for people to watch Lost. I dvr-ed the recap for my mother who stopped watching 4 episodes into S1. I watched it with her to help fill in the gaps, and it was a pretty terrible way to catch up. Characters and events fly by so quickly, I had to pause the recording multiple times so that my mom could take it in. Reading this is just further proof that a serialized show of this depth can be so difficult to gain followers.Yaweee said:
When you can watch every episode (like we have taken the time to) its a much more rewarding experience than something like CSI or even great shows like House (even Chuck to an extent).
Solo said:
Are we sure that Jacob never chose him? We're still missing quite a bit of information about how leaders are chosen, and even if Jacob never talked to Ben (he's not the most open and honest guy), he still could have told Richard at some point to make Ben the leader.
Yaweee said:
You'd think that if Jacob actually chose Ben that he would actually let Ben see him/communicate with him, which he didnt. Also "what about you?" also seems to make it quite clear that Jacob has no regard for Ben whatsoever, let alone choosing him to lead.
Again, I think this is simply one of these things that the writers never fully got fleshed out in time (like Smokey), so there are inconsistencies/holes (like with Smokey).
Solo said:
It could just be inconsistencies or hole, but the tidbits in Whatever Happened, Happened, Dead is Dead, or The Man Behind the Curtain seems to imply that there was something genuinely special or interesting about Ben (or both he and Richard were manipulated by Smokey to create the illusion of it). Strangely, Widmore (the leader at the time), disagreed with Richard's decision to bring Ben to the Temple. But then again, there's also hints of Widmore being a douche and assuming too much about Jacob's will.
TheGreatDave
Banned
Everything will make sense after the TV movie Lost: Jacob's Plan.
Solo said:
In many religions, the disciples don't have direct contact. They communicate through the priest/prophet (Richard). In many cases, they do interact with their god but it is indirectly or in ways they don't see.
Ben is unique because I think Jacob used him but never actually viewed him as a real leader, more like a placeholder. For all we know, Jacob may not have a need for someone to lead. It's just a construct to help his followers be unified.
TheGreatDave
Banned
I think WKD had 1000 posts before the episode aired :lolSolo said:
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