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Love Boat 2 [Mafia] |OT| Electric Boogalove

YesNOnoNOYes

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Dec 13, 2011
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DAY 1 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

TsuXna & Royal_Flush (2)
Natiko 475
Nomadic Sparks 488

Xbro & Karkador (2)
flatearthpandas 387 619
Ty4on 695
Ourobolus 1021

Orb & TheWorthyEdge (2)
Sorian 688
WhereAreMahDragonz 954

Ourobolus & kingkitty (2)
WhereAreMahDragonz 156 954
flatearthpandas 174 176
Sorian 194 444
flatearthpandas 619 654
Muffin1611 718
Dr. Worm 836

Fat4all & Sorian (2)
CrimsonFist 175
Darryl 659

Verelios & WhereAreMahDragonz (1)
flatearthpandas 176 387
kitsunelaine 385

Trigger & Ty4on (1)
CrimsonFist 71 175
kingkitty 653

Muffin1611 & Samuraischnecke (0): Dr. Worm 537 836

franconp & Dr. Worm (0): Dr. Worm 136 537, Muffin1611 178 413

StarSketch & SexyFish (0): flatearthpandas 655 962

CrimsonFist & Sophia (0): Ourobolus 115 1021, WhereAreMahDragonz 132 156, kingkitty 265 653

TheExodu5 & Fireblend (0): Dr. Worm 94 136, Ty4on 355 448

kitsunelaine & flatearthpandas (0): Sorian 444 688, Ty4on 448 695

No active vote for Day 1: Fat4all, Fireblend, flatearthpandas (has previously voted), franconp, Karkador, nin1000, Orb, Royal_Flush, Samuraischnecke, SexyFish, Sophia, StarSketch, TheExodu5, TheWorthyEdge, Trigger, TsuXna, Verelios, Xbro

Day 1 Postcount: CrimsonFist 42, Darryl 7, Dr. Worm 51, Fat4all 25, Fireblend 30, flatearthpandas 21, franconp 41, Karkador 9, kingkitty 16, kitsunelaine 43, Muffin1611 55, Natiko 51, nin1000 2, Nomadic Sparks 41, Orb 19, Ourobolus 99, Royal_Flush 11, Samuraischnecke 19, SexyFish 5, Sophia 60, Sorian 66, StarSketch 7, TheExodu5 2, TheWorthyEdge 19, Trigger 8, TsuXna 0, Ty4on 116, Verelios 31, WhereAreMahDragonz 69, Xbro 7


Day 1 ends:

Automated vote tally here

16 votes for majority
 
At work skimming the thread. Don't expect very much today from me.

I like Orb too btw. Less reasons, but kinda similar vibes now that I think about it.


He seems to have a kinda aggressive tone as town. He'll talk down people like in that big post about all the coasters.

Looong time since I've been scum with him, but back then he'd coast and every now and then make some fairly detailed posts about what was going on in the thread. Not as emotional tho iirc. I compared a scum and town game from him and in general as scum he had longer lines in his posts as if he kept adding explanations while his town posts were shorter and more direct.
Heavy Meta

Kind of brain dead right now, apologizes.

I did notice earlier that Royal's list of weeding out coasters had a whopping 13 players on it. Even when you take out the three people who are basically MIA, that's still 1/3rd of the entire game. It's making me wonder where exactly scum is at relative to the town. Unfortunately I haven't made much progress on that train of thought.
Maybe the formating is a bit unlucky, but when taking out the ones I give a pass we're only at 6 coasters.


You seem unusually nervous.
You know what? this single post here convinced me more that you're not W/W with kits than the whole kits/dragonz incident.
 

Sorian

Banned
Nov 18, 2012
22,401
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You know what? this single post here convinced me more that you're not W/W with kits than the whole kits/dragonz incident.

If not for Verelios, I'd be sitting on Dragonz with a vote all day and never looking back. He's the only saving grace for the boat.
 

franconp

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Aug 26, 2014
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That's all you've got? Really? None of that is a viable explanation.

It is just me or you are just attacking the newbies? I don't remember you participating in a discussion about any of the oldies and that seems to be Vere's job.

Unfortunately you got me as a partner as well. That certainly doesn't help. I'm trying though.

I feel like Orb (if I wasn't his partner) would look as if he was town for the first time not exactly understanding how he should put an argument into text. He seems close to being able to fully explain where he's at but he falls short. If I were to look at both newbies (Kitsune and Orb) I would think Kitsune is more fluff. Kit got into that one scuffle with WAMD and then continues to post literally useless stuff. Orb I feel is at least trying to help, or express himself.

Of course the main argument against everything I'm saying is: but you're his partner.

I don't like how you turned a prod on Orb against Kitsune. Instead of defending your partner with arguments you are trying to deflect to another player: "Orb can look scummy but Kitsune is worse".

You're fine! Just keep on keeping on until something really truly sticks out to you. Stay questioning people and when you're ready to make a call THAT'S when you take a side. Other people forcing your hand (not saying people are) is never a good thing.

People have already pointed it out but if you have a shared chat why don't you do this there? I already read you explanation and still didn't liked.

I could be persuaded to go Kark/Xbro since they are non-entities.

Vote: Karkador

What changed between the first post and the second? There wasn't much Kark discussion between them.

Err, let me rephrase that(misquoted), kitsunelaine usually seems to post in frequent succession due to the lack of editing in here.

I wouldn't take that as being a nervous tell.

This is all you got? Nothing else about the entire game?
 

Ty4on

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Jun 22, 2011
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I mean I recognize that it's entirely my problem to deal with and I should try and focus on making single posts instead of posting my thoughts as they come, but still.
No.

Smaller, more concise posts is easier to read than a wall. Make a wall if you make a deep dive or something, but I don't think there's anything wrong with posting thoughts as you go and much prefer that to a long catch-up post.
 

CrimsonFist

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Jan 13, 2013
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meh I lied! going to brush my teeth. But tomorrow I plan to have my own dank read list sometime after work.

I do want to reiterate just in case some of my posts have been skimmed passed that Typhoon should be thrown into a volcano. He should be melted like Arnold in Terminator 2. The retroactive reasoning to his buttposts in a way to make it seem a bit more townie is too weird to ignore (at least for me). If Ty4on was scum, he might have wanted to create a bit more sense of activity at the early goings, but faced with confrontation over some of buttposts decides to try to spin it into a favorable position.

What are other people's thoughts about it? Not weird at all? Pretty weird? Somewhere in the middle?

Why aren't you voting him then? And doesn't look like your partner is particularly scum reading Ty, so are you in disagreement there?
 

CrimsonFist

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That wasn't supposed to be a read btw... Now it must look like I'm really trying to pocket lol

I at first felt decent about you because nothing reminded me of when you were my scummate, but I didn't really have any specific reason why you were town apart from that.

This seems a bit paranoid, idk, could just read as a casual comment, but wouldn't really be something I'd be concerned about when giving a town read
 

CrimsonFist

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Not really reading the multiposts from kitsune as alignment indicative. The lack of solving in them on the other hand...

Were it not for FEP I'd likely have this pair at the top of my scum list. Instead it's something closer to third or fourth.

The amount of pairs that have at least one inactive/coaster is making things very messy in my head as I try and evaluate the pairs.

What has Pandas contributed to make you scum read kitsu less, I'm looking through his posts and there's a few that are trying to solve, but I wouldn't say there's much that would make me lean town on.
 

Muffin1611

Banned
Jul 6, 2016
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So, I catched up. Also gonna go over some stuff I didn't look at really yesterday.


There's...something off about this.

1. [m] Muffin1611 & [f] Samuraischnecke
- Muffin has some...odd posts here and there, that others have pointed out. However, I'm less inclined to believe that BOTH Crimsophistia and these guys are scum. Still possible, but some of the back-and-forth they've had makes me think otherwise. Either way, they'll both sit in "lean scum" for the time being.

Could you guys elaborate what you mean? I'm pretty sure that after Dragonz pushed me to explain myself more I pretty accurately described my motivation and reasoning for my posts yesterday.

It also seems that reads on my pair are pretty much the opposite between many people, not often null. Which I find interesting.
 

Sorian

Banned
Nov 18, 2012
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I've checked the thread a couple times in the past hour or so and I keep seeing new posts but there is nothing for me to poke at.

I am curious to know what else you and KK disagree on, Ouro.

I also want to know why you find it interesting that many people have a read on you Muffin instead of just a null.
 

Ourobolus

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Feb 27, 2008
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I've checked the thread a couple times in the past hour or so and I keep seeing new posts but there is nothing for me to poke at.

I am curious to know what else you and KK disagree on, Ouro.

I also want to know why you find it interesting that many people have a read on you Muffin instead of just a null.

I'll be perfectly honest, most of our private chat is shitposting
 

Trigger

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People have already pointed it out but if you have a shared chat why don't you do this there? I already read you explanation and still didn't liked.

Why don't you like his explanation? Is it scummy to you? I feel like this is more just echoing other opinions than explaining your own concerns.

I'm not too bothered by it myself. I don't think his post would earn him any brownie points from town. It seems genuine.
 

franconp

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Why don't you like his explanation? Is it scummy to you? I feel like this is more just echoing other opinions than explaining your own concerns.

I'm not too bothered by it myself. I don't think his post would earn him any brownie points from town. It seems genuine.

It feels that they are adding to their post count and try to look more active with something that they could have done in their own chat.

So, it's mostly coasting.

I still don't have a read on them as there isn't anything important in their posts. And those post didn't helped.
 

Ty4on

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So, I catched up. Also gonna go over some stuff I didn't look at really yesterday.

Could you guys elaborate what you mean?
I thought you meant that my explanation hence self deprecating post. Took me until today to realize you actually meant Ouro.
 

Natiko

Banned
Nov 19, 2010
3,589
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I like muffin's activity today. For my part, while ouro has basically tuned me won't the whole game, including his stupid "reads", which sparked a vote, him liking Fire still doesn't really raise my eyebrows. Maybe because I was also liking Fire at the time—surely more than I enjoyed the benefits of lovers chat queries—but also because Ouro has had almost no substance the whole game. Apart from his two learning town picks, his "read list" was literally a list of people he didn't have reads on.

It seems a bit early in the game for scum ouro to acknowledge that his scum play can be used to implicate a town fire and there's no reason at that point for fire to be a logical target for such a play anyway. Then I don't think such a nothing read could be used to paint anyone as town, even coming from someone who contributes better than ouro. So i don't see this post as really propping up or pulling down fire. And even if fire had popped into scum chat to announce that he was going to start contributing, it would be very strange for ouro to even accidentally acknowledge that in this manner. That would mean he has an implicit trust in the things fire had not yet even posted and pretyped validation for it. Seems unlikely.

Still not liking ouro but really not seeing this conspiracy. Seems like an arbitrary pick in a pretty throwaway post among throwaway posts.

My reads so far. Realizing they're pretty sad. No particular order

Leaning town:
5. [m] TsuXna & [m] Royal_Flush - royal pulling all the weight but good contributions imo. Of course I've only played against scum total once and it was a Christmas miracle we caught him
1. [m] Muffin1611 & [f] Samuraischnecke - i did notice Sam's readlist and found it a decent effort, while muffin has been putting in solid work today. Feel good about you two overall
8. [m] Trigger & [m] Ty4on - ty pulling the weight here but haven't been triggered by his partner
6. [m] franconp & [m] Dr. Worm - i Thought Fran has doing pretty well yesterday while i like worm today. Adds up to a good team for me

Null:
15. [-] Darryl & [m] nin1000 - liking Darryl but not much there
3. [m] Fat4all & [m] Sorian - i feel like i can't even remember anything fat has said but sorian has been decent
14. [f] StarSketch & [m] SexyFish - nothing much. 65% null
13. [m] Orb & [m] TheWorthyEdge - need to look reread both
11. [m] Verelios & [f] WhereAreMahDragonz - i like vere okay and don't particularly like it dislike dragonz. Will look into the orb angle next. Actually, i like that dragonz is bringing up new shit. This may be my towniest null
2. [m] TheExodu5 & [m] Fireblend - fire i liked more early on but don't dislike now. Nothing on exo.
4. [m] CrimsonFist & [f] Sophia - this is the team i worry about the most, but not necessarily that i find scummy. I wish i had better reads on Sophia, but crimson has been okay
7. [m] Xbro & [m] Karkador - not much. Want more from kark still


Leaning scum:
12. [m] Ourobolus & [m] kingkitty - ouro is purposefully vague and unhelpful. Kitty is perpetually promising opinions that never seen to materialize. I wish either one could manufacture some solid opinions
10. [m] Natiko & [m] Nomadic Sparks - natiko is solid. Nomad is all over. I feel like natiko is reigning his partner in a bit. I was criticized for not going to bar for kits but whatever opinions she earned from her exchange, she earned. I know she's town and don't mind her proving it without me swooping in. I'd like to see nomad fend for himself a bit.

Unvote

What has Pandas contributed to make you scum read kitsu less, I'm looking through his posts and there's a few that are trying to solve, but I wouldn't say there's much that would make me lean town on.
Stuff like the above has helped me feel a bit better about their boat whereas before FEP was getting defensive for kit and then disappearing. Royal's larger post about activity on the flip side didn't do as much for me because it's an easy subject to tackle for scum.
 

Natiko

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Nov 19, 2010
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Am I the only one that finds it odd that despite my boat being scum read by a few groups now there's still never been a vote towards it? Feels like people are more hoping to sway some others to start the train first so they won't look as bad when we flip town if lynched.
 

Ty4on

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I've said it twice now in the last 15 minutes (but at least one came right after this post), there is no logic to follow for any of your statements. You throw things out there with no analysis and I think you even defended it once by saying something about how KK knows the logic because lover's chat. But that's not how mafia works, the group has to be able to follow your work because 9 times of 10, scum aren't able to show work since they already had the answer before it started.
Give examples where Ouro's read progression is inconsistent. Not including the Fire read ofc.
 

Ty4on

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Am I the only one that finds it odd that despite my boat being scum read by a few groups now there's still never been a vote towards it? Feels like people are more hoping to sway some others to start the train first so they won't look as bad when we flip town if lynched.
I think part of it is the complete lack of votes being thrown around.
We're talking about 2 votes as if it's many when really it's the same as 1 vote in a non pair game.

Personally your low activity is holding me back. I can see that making you seem a bit grumpier and less likely to stick in the thread and progress with reads and stuff.
 

CrimsonFist

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Stuff like the above has helped me feel a bit better about their boat whereas before FEP was getting defensive for kit and then disappearing. Royal's larger post about activity on the flip side didn't do as much for me because it's an easy subject to tackle for scum.

I'm never really convinced by long read lists with vague comments like that, the first comment is ok, but not really enough to make up for kitsune's continued lack of contributions since the Dragonz argument.
 

Muffin1611

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Jul 6, 2016
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I also want to know why you find it interesting that many people have a read on you Muffin instead of just a null.

I don't mean the fact that people got any reads on me, I mean that most reads on me sway either townie or scummy. (By null I meant neutral, was probably the wrong word).

You and I think a few others town read me because of that little joke me and Sam made earlier, which I didn't expect, but that view made sense to me after you explained it.

I'd be interested why some think I come over a bit scummy, Ouro just said something along the lines of "he had a few odd posts as others mentioned" which is really vague. So there must be something I said that is either scummy on it's own and they don't share the town read you had on me, or is so scummy that it cancels that one out.

Part of why I said I find it interesting is also because of the few games I've played elsewhere. Iirc I was pretty much always read as being relatively neutral.

I thought you meant that my explanation hence self deprecating post. Took me until today to realize you actually meant Ouro.

Ah, gotcha.
 

Trigger

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Sep 9, 2009
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Am I the only one that finds it odd that despite my boat being scum read by a few groups now there's still never been a vote towards it? Feels like people are more hoping to sway some others to start the train first so they won't look as bad when we flip town if lynched.

Nomad isn't winning over anyone, but I don't think that the lack of votes is about fears over being the first in a train. I think it's just that there hasn't been enough to latch onto for a vote.
 

Muffin1611

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Jul 6, 2016
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Part of why I said I find it interesting is also because of the few games I've played elsewhere. Iirc I was pretty much always read as being relatively neutral.

But I guess I wanted to be more active in this game anyway for a change so that might be expected.
 

franconp

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Aug 26, 2014
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I'm never really convinced by long read lists with vague comments like that, the first comment is ok, but not really enough to make up for kitsune's continued lack of contributions since the Dragonz argument.

I actually feel that Kitsune lying low is consistent with the posts she made so far. She said that she was afraid of getting lynched, had a discussion with WAMD, caught some heat and now is lying low and letting her partner gain some trust.

I don't agree with it but at least make sense.
 

Trigger

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It feels that they are adding to their post count and try to look more active with something that they could have done in their own chat.

So, it's mostly coasting.

I still don't have a read on them as there isn't anything important in their posts. And those post didn't helped.

Ok, I can understand that now that you've explained more.
 

Ty4on

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Jun 22, 2011
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I don't mean the fact that people got any reads on me, I mean that most reads on me sway either townie or scummy. (By null I meant neutral, was probably the wrong word).
You've been fairly open and outspoken I feel. Like there seems to be less of a filter than what most players here have.
 

Ourobolus

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Feb 27, 2008
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How many scum pairs do we think there are, by the way? Not too familiar with the balancing.

Again, always a flag for me. A way to "add to the discussion" without actually doing so.

Ouro and Dragonz both have voted against Sophia...curious.

Dragonz I understand, but why you, Ouro?

Dragonz vote was a vote regarding fluff - "not bending the knee," yet my vote "just because" is weird. ok.

I agree with Sophia here. Dr. Worm should try to make better contributions than that and explain himself a bit.

VOTE: Dr. Worm

2 hours in, what sort of reads is Muffin expecting to get? What contributions? Nothing had happened yet.

Again, it's a cross between him being a newbie and/or being just "there." For now you're in the "lean scum" pile since I can't just give town credit because you're new (I was scum my first game).
 

Muffin1611

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Again, always a flag for me. A way to "add to the discussion" without actually doing so.

Honest question

Dragonz vote was a vote regarding fluff - "not bending the knee," yet my vote "just because" is weird. ok.

On page 3. Where there's absolutely nothing to go on so you have to obviously go out on a limb on anything you see.

I also immediately acknowledged that it was a joke vote a handful of posts later

2 hours in, what sort of reads is Muffin expecting to get? What contributions? Nothing had happened yet.

Again, it's a cross between him being a newbie and/or being just "there." For now you're in the "lean scum" pile since I can't just give town credit because you're new (I was scum my first game).

There's plenty of other things that were discussed besides those two earliest examples you could find.
 

Sophia

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Am I the only one that finds it odd that despite my boat being scum read by a few groups now there's still never been a vote towards it? Feels like people are more hoping to sway some others to start the train first so they won't look as bad when we flip town if lynched.

You almost sound paranoid here, Natiko.

*goes to check which groups are scum reading Natiko besides FEP*
 

Ty4on

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You almost sound paranoid here, Natiko.

*goes to check which groups are scum reading Natiko besides FEP*
You've never had that feeling as town? Wondering if scum are throwing shade at you or it's just townies struggling to read you?

Natiko's pair does not feel town read RN. I think Flush went the most against him, but I seem to remember some shade too.
 

Sophia

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You've never had that feeling as town? Wondering if scum are throwing shade at you or it's just townies struggling to read you?

Natiko's pair does not feel town read RN. I think Flush went the most against him, but I seem to remember some shade too.

I get people saying they're struggling to read me so much that I don't pay much mind to that feeling. Plus I'd rather engage the people I think are throwing shade at me. :p

And remember, I threw a ton of shade at Nomadic for his crap posting earlier. I am not town reading them either, although they're more of a null right now.
 

CrimsonFist

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Natiko's pair doesn't feel town read, but they didn't stand out as being massively scum read either. I recall bits of shade, but not to a significant degree. Just going off memory and not going back to look at specific comments.
 

CrimsonFist

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My read would be somewhere in the null zone too, Natiko has stood out as a higher contributor, but I see him as someone who will play like that as town or scum. Nomadic is a non entity in terms of meaningful contributions though which doesn't help things.
 

Ourobolus

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Natiko and Nomad balance each other out. Nomad is just existing, Natiko is engaging, and while I obviously take issue with his suspicion of me, nothing is really standing out as scummy.
 

CrimsonFist

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Natiko and Nomad balance each other out. Nomad is just existing, Natiko is engaging, and while I obviously take issue with his suspicion of me, nothing is really standing out as scummy.

I'd put Trigger and Ty4on in that boat too, but to a more extreme degree both in terms of nothingness and positive contributions respectively.
 

Fireblend

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Jul 22, 2006
20,644
1
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I'm working on a read list but I just caught this post and noticed FEP asking me something:

Don't really mean to drag this whole thing out again, but am curious why this is in the thread and not in partner chat?

We've had various thoughts but personal coaching etc. is something I would/have use the lover chat for. I guess it's the type of thing where if public I wonder why it's public. I don't necessarily think it helps us determine anything about your alignment but it makes me wonder why I'm reading it. Fire, you were most worried about this stuff, what do you think about it?

I don't think it's very alignment-indicative and it doesn't really bother me or jump out at me much. Presumably scum also have a shared chat where they could coach each other. I still think the actual usefulness of the lovers chats beyond it being required because of the setup for PR stuff and things like that is very limited, and I'd rather see stuff that shouldn't strictly be private here for everyone to see.

And I guess there may be an ulterior or subconscious motive for calling Orb out publicly but it's too immaterial for me to really dig into or consider seriously.
 

Fireblend

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Jul 22, 2006
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Actually, FEP, let me throw the question back to you. What were you implying? Did I read your question correctly? Re-reading the question, it feels as if you were trying to have me make an argument against TWE for you.

What worried you about it?
 

Sophia

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While I'm doing hottakes of my own, this kind of jumped out at me.

Unfortunately you got me as a partner as well. That certainly doesn't help. I'm trying though.

I feel like Orb (if I wasn't his partner) would look as if he was town for the first time not exactly understanding how he should put an argument into text. He seems close to being able to fully explain where he's at but he falls short. If I were to look at both newbies (Kitsune and Orb) I would think Kitsune is more fluff. Kit got into that one scuffle with WAMD and then continues to post literally useless stuff. Orb I feel is at least trying to help, or express himself.

Of course the main argument against everything I'm saying is: but you're his partner.

Why the hell are you reading your own partner as if you somehow don't know their alignment?

You're fine! Just keep on keeping on until something really truly sticks out to you. Stay questioning people and when you're ready to make a call THAT'S when you take a side. Other people forcing your hand (not saying people are) is never a good thing.

I did this to also show people how I think as well. Many may think what goes through my mind when I'm doing the stuff I do. That's how I think in a game of Mafia so I feel not only should my partner understand it but the players themselves.

These two quotes + the above read are a bit fluff. You don't need to do public demonstrations of how you think. Show us how you think by hunting scum and providing reasonable arguments.

I understand your sentiments regarding not using the chat for what I was talking about. All is well.

Hottakes right now is that Nomadic and Kitsune are the most suspicious to me right now. Kitsune is ALL over the place and hasn't posted much of worth.

Nomadic on the other has said some odd things the past couple of pages. He seems more inclined to shit post or try and summon someone when in reality he doesn't give anything to us (yet he expects other to bow down to him and give him reads).

About to get into bed rn. Will look over the past 2 or so pages.

These are all easy hottake reads too. I'm pretty sure both of these reads have basically been made by others before this post.
 

Fireblend

Banned
Jul 22, 2006
20,644
1
0
1. [m] Muffin1611 & [f] Samuraischnecke

Samurai seems a bit clueless and aloof - I know that the game moves at a fast pace and there's an unusually high amount of players in it (I myself have trouble keeping up) but there's very little in her posts of actual substance. Everything she's done is dig up an Exodu5 post when I asked about it and then joke with Muffin about anime and stuff. Not a good look.

Muffin is a bit polarizing, from what I can gather. Personally, I lean a bit towards scum on him because most of what he's posted feels pretty low-effort. There was a summary formatted as a read list early in the game that didn't contain one single original opinion. He read Dragonz as scummy after the spat with Kitsune, he voted for Ouro when people were discussing his read on me with disapproval... feels like he's following what he sees as the status quo rather than bring up new stuff.

As a pair, they seem pretty introspective in that they interact plenty with each other - Sorian read that exchange about Samurai feeling ignored as being indicative of a townie alignment but I don't agree that it is as indicative as he thought, specially considering they both live together.

3. [m] Fat4all & [m] Sorian

I'm a bit disappointed with these two. I said Sorian seems a bit disengaged and I stand by that statement. He's far from leading the conversation, and most of his posts seem to exude disinterest from the lack of "flashy new leads" to follow, which doesn't seem to me like the usual Sorian attitude. Most of his posts are of him dropping in to agree or disagree with people. Seems to have lost some initiative. I'm surprised he has as many post as he does.

Fat4all I only remember for telling to me to look at the dragonz/Kitsune thing after I announced I was available. Other than that, I'm drawing a blank.

4. [m] CrimsonFist & [f] Sophia

They've both been active and proactive; they strike me as a pretty good combination that's been on top of the game most of the day phase. I know they're both great players and as such don't think this is necessarily alignment indicative, but their contributions have been valuable and I wouldn't consider them for a lynch at the moment.

5. [m] TsuXna & [m] Royal_Flush

Tsu is a non-entity. R_F is one of my favorite players due to how useful his posts usually are, but so far he feels like he's not quite there yet. The coasters post was alright but the lack of a conclusion in his post left me with a bad mouth feel.

6. [m] franconp & [m] Dr. Worm

I feel franconp's contributions have been solid. He was right to point out how Dragonz has been focusing on the newbies lately. He's actually disagreed with people and made his opinions clear.
Worm has been a bit reactionary with his posts, but it doesn't strike me as staying on the sidelines. When Ouro made that odd post about the side-eyes or whatever I feel he had a good reaction and knew how to follow it up.

7. [m] Xbro & [m] Karkador

Very absent; Xbro has a couple of alright posts but he seems very indecisive when it comes to actually providing a definitive opinion, as if he's trying to make time or not stir the pot too much.
Kark is just not here. His last post was about no-lynch stuff. Eh.

8. [m] Trigger & [m] Ty4on

Trigger has very few posts but they're alright, better than Xbro's IMO since they feel like they have a definitive "direction" to them rather than being meant to stall. Insight is lacking, but at least he's asking questions? Still, the lack of activity hurts.

Ty4on has been playing well. Tons of posts between poking, questions and opinions. I like it. Not much to say beyond that, I'm getting bored of this read list.

9. [f] kitsunelaine & [m] flatearthpandas

Kitsune has been very defensive and I'd like to offer her the same advice I gave to Orb: Please take a position even if you're not sure if it's the right one. Being in the middle of things and reacting only to save yourself is being dead weight. You could've easily flipped the tables against Dragonz earlier if you'd been more decisive, I think.
FEP feels very null so far. He had a very tame read list earlier, and since then his contributions seem very risk-free. That post I answered a bit ago also left me asking myself about his intentions.

10. [m] Natiko & [m] Nomadic Sparks

A blindspot for me. I admit to have been largely ignoring them so far. Checking through their post histories, Nomadic feels similar to Muffin in what I said about following the status quo, with some massive shade-throwing at Ouro after he was called out for town-reading me and his side-eye thing. That's it.

Natiko feels solid. He's got plenty of decent posts and even though I said I've been ignoring him, looking through his posts it's easy to recall his positions, so he's made an impression after all. The only thing I'm missing is a vote with substance because his current one feels like it already served its purpose (or didn't, but has no effect now).

11. [m] Verelios & [f] WhereAreMahDragonz

Beyond the Kitsune thing, Dragonz feels like the opposite of concise - too many walls of text and trying to explain her positions without much getting across. This could either be genuine difficulty in defending her arguments, or just trying to seem more insightful out of a sense of self-preservation, which should be a bit of a red flag.
Verelios started strong, but he hasn't made as strong an impression on me since the first ~36 hours of the game.

12. [m] Ourobolus & [m] kingkitty

This pair is hard to read. Ouro has made some questionable posts. I believe him that he could have genuinely town-read me when he did, but then the side-eye thing, the "I'm always defensive" stuff which I don't really agree with, and some of the exchanges where he feels weirdly commited to his positions as if he couldn't back down for fear of losing towncred or something are raising red flags. I do like his level of activity though, and I also like KK who has felt very assertive and equally engaged. My first instinct is to take a wait-and-see attitude, kind of how I usually do with Sorian when he's active and leading the conversation.

13. [m] Orb & [m] TheWorthyEdge

Orb still feels very indecisive and defensive. Kitsune 2.0.
TWE feels very safe - he's spent way too many posts talking to his partner in a very useless way and that feels like stalling. Actually, most of his posts feel like some sort of stream of consciousness, with weird asides like him forgetting about what he meant to say, or hoping a question didn't seem to aggressive when asking fat4all about his interest on the Kitsune/WAMD thing. Weird stuff.

14. [f] StarSketch & [m] SexyFish

literally nothing to say. Pretty much dead weight. SexyFish hinted at being useful later previous to making an easy defense of a new player. I feel like that's something I like doing as scum, town-reading newbies and jumping to their defense when they make an obvious slip that could be read either way.
StarSketch meanwhile has demonstrated some very dubious math.

15. [-] Darryl & [m] nin1000
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Still plenty of time but here's my vote for now:
Vote: Muffin1611

Muffin has way too many posts for the lack of decision I'm reading in them. Samurai feels like a non-entity. I want some assertiveness.

Top scum:

1. Muffin & Samurai
2. Kitsune & FEP
3. FatSorian
4. Vere & WAMD
 

Sorian

Banned
Nov 18, 2012
22,401
0
0
Give examples where Ouro's read progression is inconsistent. Not including the Fire read ofc.

I feel like I've heard numerous times that Crimson/Sophia is scummy just because.

A lot of the scum reads have very little actual reasoning behind them. Too lazy to go back to the reads list from a page or two ago but nothing jumped out as even mildly evidence based.

I don't mean the fact that people got any reads on me, I mean that most reads on me sway either townie or scummy. (By null I meant neutral, was probably the wrong word).

I know what you meant and I see the comment about being usually read null in other places. I was more fishing to see if you had actually advanced that concern into any reads or not.

-------

I meant to quote Sophia too but lol at the TWE post where is providing a read on Orb, I didn't even notice that on my skims.
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Feb 27, 2008
18,517
14
1,200
I feel like I've heard numerous times that Crimson/Sophia is scummy just because.

A lot of the scum reads have very little actual reasoning behind them. Too lazy to go back to the reads list from a page or two ago but nothing jumped out as even mildly evidence based.

Yeah, well I'll get back to that once we actually have something concrete to work with.

(hint: none of us do yet)