• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Love Boat 2 [Mafia] |OT| Electric Boogalove

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
690
Norway
Not really. The goal is to lynch all the scum. It's actually a bad and selfish playstyle to play with preservation as your goal.
Getting yourself lynched doesn't really help as town.

The methods for achieving it can be discussed, but I think everybody can agree townies should avoid being lynched. IMO that means putting your thoughts out there so the inherit townieness can shine through.
 
Apr 16, 2013
24,443
0
425
hell, a.k.a. arizona
You haven't seen townies that tried to avoid pressure by doing stuff like that?

If she'd really wanted to hide she wouldn't even mention the vote.

Feels to me like she tried to appear active and helpful, and it didn't work, so now she's going back on it.

I agree with what Fran said about self preservation being bad, which is why i brought it up in the first place. It bothers me.

I don't understand this thought process. I still haven't made a statement on anyone but myself and only because I was prompted, how is this going back on any statement of mine? Explain the logic here, please.

I'm not talking about anyone but you, I'm interpreting your posts only.

Methinks Dragonz just going tit for tat. Yawn.

Maybe, maybe not. Who knows?

I didn't think there was much to what kitsunelaine said originally, which is why I found it odd that WMADZ nitpicked at it so much.

Because it stood out to me and I'm going to call out anything I see, no matter how small. That's how you find scum.
 

kitsunelaine

Banned
Mar 29, 2017
920
0
0
I'm not talking about anyone but you, I'm interpreting your posts only.

That doesn't explain the logic behind the apparent self-contradiction you tried to call me on. So far I haven't seen anything to justify the following quote;

To me it just feels like you're trying to be helpful and are now trying to go back on your previous statement regarding coasting by actively communicating.

Honestly your refusal to explain this bugs the crap out of me. I'll ask you again. How exactly am I going back on my statement?
 

Sophia

Member
Feb 8, 2008
23,132
1
1,020
Because it stood out to me and I'm going to call out anything I see, no matter how small. That's how you find scum.

I'm curious as to what you think you saw then? Because to me it looked like she was just poking fun at her past game performance. Her three posts there were a bit fluff, but I didn't see anything beyond that myself.
 

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
690
Norway
Because it stood out to me and I'm going to call out anything I see, no matter how small. That's how you find scum.
Have to weed out the townies too~

You do you tho while I sleep. Not set on her alignment, but I've seen plenty of townies doing the same.

VOTE: Fireblend
So much coasting and taking potshots
 

franconp

Member
Aug 26, 2014
1,688
0
350
Getting yourself lynched doesn't really help as town.

The methods for achieving it can be discussed, but I think everybody can agree townies should avoid being lynched. IMO that means putting your thoughts out there so the inherit townieness can shine through.

I didn't say that she should be ok getting lynched being town.

What I meant is that it's bad to actually not trying to catch scum to avoid getting lynched. A townie shouldn't be afraid to post his thoughts or push a read to avoid a lynch.

If you are a townie getting lynched defend yourself with all you can but it's a lot more important trying to catch scum.
 

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
690
Norway
Sophia and Crimson are ok in my book rn.
Towniest thing so far is Crimson's progression with Fat4All, but they both seem reasonably in tune as if they have parallel discussions and are engaged.
 

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
690
Norway
I didn't say that she should be ok getting lynched being town.

What I meant is that it's bad to actually not trying to catch scum to avoid getting lynched. A townie shouldn't be afraid to post his thoughts or push a read to avoid a lynch.

If you are a townie getting lynched defend yourself with all you can but it's a lot more important trying to catch scum.
Well yeah

Arguably trying to catch scum is the best defence if town is flexible
 

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
690
Norway
Light town:
CrimSoph
Ourokitty
Veregonz

Light scum:
Exodu5ire
FatSorian
NatNomad

Scum reads feel heavily influenced by low activity/engagement though.

Neither list is really in order BTW
 

Xbro

Member
Jan 16, 2015
2,434
0
270
Forgot this was today. Skimmed through already, going to do a thorough read.
 

Darryl

Member
May 3, 2011
10,541
4
525
I'm not going to call hypocrisy but I have a feeling when you let mind share go along for too long you'll get things like someone coming back Day 2 and calling for a lynch based on pretense.

Prod

Fluffing prod

Nothing

Shade

Second shade (which is odd, given how half the game literally hasn't checked in yet)

Again, some more shade on Dr. Worm, when Sophia hasn't done much between prod a player, throw shade and give one liners.

Fluff

Superficial fluff...this conversation happens every day 1 so eh.

You are really fixated on us for some reason. I joked earlier that you had some agenda but now I'm wondering if there's some reason why.

Walking it back.

I mean, we're early in day 1 so I usually let this go and wait until two days or so has passed, but I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from when I say you're projecting. You've said nothing of worth all game besides trying to police the thread.

I don't really agree with you. Saying that they've said nothing of worth is false; they're clearly distancing themselves from people. Their policing isn't any worse than your own attempt to do so. You seem fine with shutting down Soph/Crim's multidirectional manhunt because it had you in their crosshairs.

Don't know why on earth you feel like you need to stop someone who is putting themselves out there this much this early: if they're scum you are giving them more rope to hang themselves with.
 

Fireblend

Banned
Jul 22, 2006
20,644
1
0
Keeping up with this while on vacations is a nightmare. I'll be back at 100% on Wednesday but for now I'm ok with the casual potshot taking.
 

Verelios

Member
Nov 7, 2011
7,762
0
0
I'm going to be recollecting my thoughts as I go, but I wanted to do this while the thought was still fresh in my head. Sorian, you've been acting way too weird with CrimsonSophia, such that I'm wondering if you're all not riding the same boat together.
I read all the posts together as one since I woke up so late and the game has only been going for 5 hours. There really isn't a long time gap to be had.

Reading it so far, there's not really much to say. +1 to Crimson if anything because he seems to be the only doing doing any semblance of dragging the gam out of initial shit post time.

Ouro is the only one who feels weird so far but really only because his trolling feels like it is more there to put people on edge instead of being funny. Which isn't much but it is enough to vote!

VOTE: Ourobolus

Feels good
So...what are the odds that you've read a stretch of posts, made 5 hours into day 1, and a single pair appear to be doing everything that set your alarm bells saying 'Right'? I'll give Sorian the benefit of not being so transparent at this moment, but:
Nothing in particular I grabbed as a quote but to Verelions, Ouro, and Kitty. Nah, while I do see Crimson and Sophia as being slightly hypocritical (mostly for Crimson calling out things his partner is doing), that's not really a scum tell. They aren't the same person and obviously Crimson isn't going to analyze Sophia, he knows her alignment.
Here we have you basically passively tilting discussion away from them-
Something feels off about the way Ty is poking this but I can't quite put my finger on it. Like I agree with him and I'm happy about the digging deeper even if I've already written off Crimson/Sophia for today but it feels like too much effort to keep Nomad on the table.
And then we have you full on diverting attention. Why? I can't remember anyone else who warranted that much belief from you(there wasn't) and it's peculiar that you're defending not one, but both of the pair today. And your line of questioning is subject too. Sorian uses the 'I agree with you but X takes precedence' or what I like to call the carrot and stick method. On one hand, he acknowledges that the Crimsonphia pair may have a problem, while on the other he's saying, let's put that aside for now and focus on something substantial.

And then there's this post thread below that appears to try and give Sophia's claim legitimacy early on

I mean I'm hardly jumping only on to easy topics here, especially when you take into account the private chat me and Crimson are talking with each other.

But remind me again of how much Verelios and Dragonz have added to the game so far? Especially miss "I'm more interested in writing my terrible Game of Thrones fanfiction than actually playing the game" :p

None at all (but that's also par for the course from both of them if I'm being honest with myself from playing/modding other games). I mostly point it out for the irony and also as my civic duty to rush in for aid on my lover. It's my life on the line too!

True, which is why I haven't quite considered them alignment indicative on it's own yet.

(Also I didn't say anything about Fat yet! Or at least not in public ¯_(ツ)_/¯)
By writing and directing a set narrative. For what purpose? I don't know, I have my suspicions but nothing concrete.
 

Verelios

Member
Nov 7, 2011
7,762
0
0
I don't really agree with you. Saying that they've said nothing of worth is false; they're clearly distancing themselves from people. Their policing isn't any worse than your own attempt to do so. You seem fine with shutting down Soph/Crim's multidirectional manhunt because it had you in their crosshairs.

Don't know why on earth you feel like you need to stop someone who is putting themselves out there this much this early: if they're scum you are giving them more rope to hang themselves with.
First of all, they haven't said anything of worth. What you derive from their posts is separate from their intent. Secondly, I never wanted to police anything. If you read my post I was just explaining why their accusations were hypocritical, which to me they were.

Thirdly, I have no problems with legitimate criticism. We're all having discourse, arguing, throwing opinions around and looking for scum. If you want to argue what I said then fine, but saying I'm trying to stifle discussion is factually wrong. The only way to get scum is for them to talk more, react more, let slip more. Why are you telling me to stop then?
 
Apr 16, 2013
24,443
0
425
hell, a.k.a. arizona
That doesn't explain the logic behind the apparent self-contradiction you tried to call me on. So far I haven't seen anything to justify the following quote;



Honestly your refusal to explain this bugs the crap out of me. I'll ask you again. How exactly am I going back on my statement?

"I don't want to risk voting for a no lynch because I don't want too much attention, but here I am, telling everyone how much I'm posting and appearing active so that they all think I'm not trying to skate by"

That's basically how I took it. Does that make sense? I'm kinda bad at explaining sometimes tbh

I'm curious as to what you think you saw then? Because to me it looked like she was just poking fun at her past game performance. Her three posts there were a bit fluff, but I didn't see anything beyond that myself.

Her explanations feel fake. Read above
 

Natiko

Banned
Nov 19, 2010
3,589
0
0
Light town:
CrimSoph
Ourokitty
Veregonz

Light scum:
Exodu5ire
FatSorian
NatNomad

Scum reads feel heavily influenced by low activity/engagement though.

Neither list is really in order BTW
I'll take the hit on activity, but I was upfront that D1 would be like that for me. What's the reasoning on Exodu5ire? I feel like there hasn't been much discussion there but they made it on your list.
 
Apr 16, 2013
24,443
0
425
hell, a.k.a. arizona
I slightly scum read this behavior because to me, if you were town you wouldn't be afraid to post your opinion, even if it is for a no lynch. If i was advocating for it, I sure as shit wouldn't care, because A) it gives town reads on me and B) I'm not afraid to put my opinions out there because, at the end of the day, I have nothing to fear. If I die, then whatever, town gets more info and can analyze the voting patterns the next day.

Townies are still valuable even when dead
 

Sophia

Member
Feb 8, 2008
23,132
1
1,020
Her explanations feel fake. Read above

Um... what? Here's kitsunelaine's original three tweets.

Actual Stuff.

Seriously though, for me it's hard to read anyone at all. It's like trying to hold sand in your hands. There's not much solid yet on D1.

But I'm not dumb enough to vote No Lynch and make myself a target this time. Progress.

Sarcastic comment at me that actually seems to be supportive of Verelios's viewpoint. An admittance of having no real reads (which is troublesome on it's own right, but not what you're commenting on I think?) and as I noted, a joke about her past performance.

Then you come in with this

So you're more concerned about making yourself a target and less concerned about the effect it will have on town as a whole

Huh

Which seems to be making a mountain out a molehill and throwing words into her mouth...

Well I remember it became a huge sticking point on my first game and resulted in a huge debate and argument, so that is the lens I learned from, yes.

She replies referencing the previous conversation, noting back to her past experience in the game.

I don't buy it

Just sounds like you're trying to fly under the radar

And then you go... this? What? What's there for you to buy? She talked about her past game. That's it. There's nothing for you to "buy" there.

I don't get where you're going with this train of thought, Dragonz. There's something wrong with her lack of reads by then, but I'm completely lost how you came to this conclusion.
 

Natiko

Banned
Nov 19, 2010
3,589
0
0
How many games have you been in Kitsune? I agree with WAMD and tend to read being focused on self preservation too much as potential scum, but I think newness is a factor to consider. It does seem like from past games I've been in newer players sometimes overly focus on living as opposed to solving.
 

TheExodu5

Banned
Nov 27, 2007
38,093
3
0
Ottawa, Canada
Too much for me to parse at this late hour. I see a whole lot of nothing, witb Sophia/Crimson and Ty tominating a lot of the discussion.

Not really a fan of Crimson's "I set up a trap to see how people respond to it". Seemed like a weak way to try to cement himself as a townie lead. Cautious for now.
 

Darryl

Member
May 3, 2011
10,541
4
525
First of all, they haven't said anything of worth. What you derive from their posts is separate from their intent. Secondly, I never wanted to police anything. If you read my post I was just explaining why their accusations were hypocritical, which to me they were.

Thirdly, I have no problems with legitimate criticism. We're all having discourse, arguing, throwing opinions around and looking for scum. If you want to argue what I said then fine, but saying I'm trying to stifle discussion is factually wrong. The only way to get scum is for them to talk more, react more, let slip more. Why are you telling me to stop then?

Never said any of that. I am just pointing out your own hypocrisy, whilst you pointed out Sophia's hypocrisy. I didn't think Sophia was overstepping anything, therefore I didn't think you were either
 

kitsunelaine

Banned
Mar 29, 2017
920
0
0
How many games have you been in Kitsune? I agree with WAMD and tend to read being focused on self preservation too much as potential scum, but I think newness is a factor to consider. It does seem like from past games I've been in newer players sometimes overly focus on living as opposed to solving.

One. And I was lynched as town. Hence the self depreciating joke at my own expense.
 

Orb

Member
Jan 9, 2017
830
0
0
As a newbie I might just be too trusting but so far I haven't seen anyone be particularly suspicious
 

Natiko

Banned
Nov 19, 2010
3,589
0
0
Dr. Worm really stands out upon skimming the thread. Just a whole lot of nothing in his posts. RoyalTsu really need to show up more too.
One. And I was lynched as town. Hence the self depreciating joke at my own expense.
What would you say was your biggest mistake that game?
 

TheWorthyEdge

Member
Aug 20, 2013
8,450
2
440
Spring, TX
Nomadic saying no lynch is silly. There should 100% be a lynch on day 1. It's paramount to do it for that information in any form.

Have to weed out the townies too~

This is another comment that kind of popped out to me. I don't think we necessarily have to quote on quote weed out townies. The reads should be subtle regarding Townies. Not blatant like I've seen in past games.

I know it says if you did your other partner dies, but does that pertain to day kills as well? Never played a duo game.
 

Natiko

Banned
Nov 19, 2010
3,589
0
0
Unless there is a secret pair that aren't lovers or something it would apply to any possible death barring mod kills unrelated to pm quoting I would guess.
 

Verelios

Member
Nov 7, 2011
7,762
0
0
Never said any of that. I am just pointing out your own hypocrisy, whilst you pointed out Sophia's hypocrisy. I didn't think Sophia was overstepping anything, therefore I didn't think you were either
Please direct me to my hypocrisy.
 
Apr 16, 2013
24,443
0
425
hell, a.k.a. arizona
Um... what? Here's kitsunelaine's original three tweets.







Sarcastic comment at me that actually seems to be supportive of Verelios's viewpoint. An admittance of having no real reads (which is troublesome on it's own right, but not what you're commenting on I think?) and as I noted, a joke about her past performance.

Then you come in with this



Which seems to be making a mountain out a molehill and throwing words into her mouth...



She replies referencing the previous conversation, noting back to her past experience in the game.



And then you go... this? What? What's there for you to buy? She talked about her past game. That's it. There's nothing for you to "buy" there.

I don't get where you're going with this train of thought, Dragonz. There's something wrong with her lack of reads by then, but I'm completely lost how you came to this conclusion.

I've explained my thought process as best I can. Nothing more to say, so interpret it as you will.
 

kitsunelaine

Banned
Mar 29, 2017
920
0
0
When pressed on further to explain their actions, they just gave up. Yeah.
I don't trust them.

Vote: WhereAreMahDragonz
 

Natiko

Banned
Nov 19, 2010
3,589
0
0
Another thing that sticks out as odd to me - Ouro throws out a whatever vote on Sophia, but the later kingkitty shows up and follows it up with another vote on that pair - except using actual reasoning and voting the other half of the pair. Could be a complete coincidence, but it seemed worth pointing out as it makes me stop and ponder about it.
When pressed on further to explain their actions, they just gave up. Yeah.
I don't trust them.

Vote: WhereAreMahDragonz
Here's a question - you said you learned to not go for a no lynch because it contributed to you getting lynched in your last game. That being said what is your stance on no lynch now and why?
 
Feb 17, 2012
7,912
0
680
Unvote

I'll let my love and light carry the vote for now.

I am glad that my other part decided to join the game, I will try to catch up but won't be available tomorrow since I won't be in town. Daryll will be there to replace me for tomorrow. I have some small and unimportant reads but will release them as soon as I have made up my mind about these individuals.
It's my first time playing a love boat game so I don't really know how to make up my mind about the technique.

What are your thoughts on this.
If player 1 is acting suspicious, player 2 however is doing a good job in covering his tracks. Is that a good enough reason to kill both of em ?

Or rather this.

If player 1 is a pain in the ass, player 2 however is doing a great town job. Same question. Is that a good enough reason to kill both of them ?

Will go to bed now and will try to come in with some thoughts tomorrow morning and some better posts as soon as I come back.

The amount of posts will be a force to behold thought.

Stepping back to this, I think it's best to follow scum reads. We can only be certain of people as groups, but this is a game of uncertainty. If I start getting scum vibes, first assumption will be over partner is just playing better than the other. But just as good posts don't protect a single scum from a scum slip, one good player shouldn't protect the team when one is broadcasting scum.


Sophia is standing out to me. I don't think I've seen this aggressiveness from her, but I haven't kept up that will recently. Crimson seems meh.

Don't really mind dragonz but Verelios still stands out.

Ouro has done nothing but posted a lot more than everyone else who has done nothing.

Ty I like so far. Darryl too.

Playful Febe piqued my curiosity.

Vote: Karkador
Don't let's wait all day for your partner to participate. You were present and then withdrew. What's up?

Star and Sexyfish pop in at the same time and then disappear as well. Strategy is great and all but if you hit the private chat and then decided best strategy was to have nobody post at all then I don't know...
 

kitsunelaine

Banned
Mar 29, 2017
920
0
0
Here's a question - you said you learned to not go for a no lynch because it contributed to you getting lynched in your last game. That being said what is your stance on no lynch now and why?

It's easier just to wait until the day is wrapping up and take stock then instead of voting early, unless you have good reason to vote early.
 

Blargonaut

Banned
Dec 13, 2013
9,980
0
0


































































lol more like LOVE NOTE POO







































 

CrimsonFist

Member
Jan 13, 2013
4,799
0
590
What's Crimson's view?
I guess he can answer himself so Crimson: what is your read of Nomad?

I generally see the No Lynch thing as townie, especially from newer players, and the explanation for not talking it over felt believable, however it's correct that the same explanation works if they're scum.

Reading on, seems like Nomadic really hasn't said much more, Natiko's posts have been ok, bit of fluff, some metay stuff, some answering easy talking points, but getting into more scum hunting.
 

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
690
Norway
I'll take the hit on activity, but I was upfront that D1 would be like that for me. What's the reasoning on Exodu5ire? I feel like there hasn't been much discussion there but they made it on your list.
I voted for Fireblend. Exodus haven't posted yet, but Fire has been on the sidelines with some comments and never really getting involved.
 

Sorian

Banned
Nov 18, 2012
22,401
0
0
Will go back for quotes in a second now that I'm on mobile, mildly followed the thread on my work computer but can't log on to neogaf from there.

Two points stick out, can't say I agree with all the analysis on self preservation. Whoever said that everyone should be trying to protect themselves is correct. It's when push comes to shove and it's your own ass on the line or an obvious town PR that you should now be questioning your own death but pretending that there is any info one way or the other this early on is wrong.

Second, if you want me to be active, come back Thursday. I work 12 hour shifts Monday through Wednesday, this isn't new, you get what you get.
 

Sorian

Banned
Nov 18, 2012
22,401
0
0
Honestly at the moment the only one who really stands out to me is Sophia. Her insistence on me for whatever reason and then how she backed off when it wasn't getting any traction is weird. Sophia plays her cards much more closely to her chest to let something that obvious happen normally so it's kind of weird and noteworthy to me

I'll just quote this as the start of a bunch of other posts but you look like you are drowning under the pressure.
 

Sorian

Banned
Nov 18, 2012
22,401
0
0
Sophia and Crimson are ok in my book rn.
Towniest thing so far is Crimson's progression with Fat4All, but they both seem reasonably in tune as if they have parallel discussions and are engaged.

Agreed on the point but what about the progression on Fat? I poked at the accusation and found it to be fairly shallow. Would be unsurprised to read their chat later and find that Crimson was trying to egg a response to read reactions.