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Love Boat [Mafia] |OT| Till Death Do Us Part

*Splinter

Member
Why claim miller/tracker on D1 right after someone claimed name cop? That's downright insane as well. Why do we let Kark get away with his "I did not do anything on D1 because Blarg" defense?

Don't get me wrong, I think overall there are too many things I don't quite buy (regarding Blarg), so I would rather vote for him, but I fail to see why it is treated like a clear cut case. I recall that (I think) Splabot said they had contradicted themselves on x-shot/infinite, anyone got a link to that?

Its not a direct contradiction. Kark claims x shot while Blarg claims infinite.

(Cabot thinks there is something in this, but personally I don't really see this particular point as very meaningful)
 

cabot

Member
Why claim miller/tracker on D1 right after someone claimed name cop? That's downright insane as well. Why do we let Kark get away with his "I did not do anything on D1 because Blarg" defense?

Don't get me wrong, I think overall there are too many things I don't quite buy (regarding Blarg), so I would rather vote for him, but I fail to see why it is treated like a clear cut case. I recall that (I think) Splabot said they had contradicted themselves on x-shot/infinite, anyone got a link to that?

It was a contradiction in so far as its the one defining difference of their power that they have both said.

Neither have claimed any other differences.
 

Ty4on

Member
It's a potential alternative resolution to this tracker dispute. If you agreed with Blarg's alternatives at all, this is pretty much the mutually-agreed-upon terms; and Splinter made a rather scummy move, too.
And this flip will be a gold mine.
 
CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

*Splinter & cabot (11)
LaunchpadMcQ .1764 .2130
Ty4on .2491
*Splinter .2581 .2741
FluxWaveZ .2601 .2610
Kawl_USC .2603
Zippedpinhead .2608
Karkador .2609
Blargonaut .2622
FluxWaveZ .2657 .2687
Giant Panda .2719
Flame_AC .2724
Gorlak .2733
Coppanuva .2737
UltraJay .2744
Dusk Soldier .2768

Blargonaut & Kawl_USC (11)
Karkador .1889 .2609
Zippedpinhead .1892 .2608
Flame_AC .1893 .2694
Hyperactivity .1895
*Splinter .1919 .2145
batsnacks .1930
Timeaisis .2009
Camjo-Z .2086 .2451
TL21xx .2090
LaunchpadMcQ .2130 .2780
Kyanrute .2142
Retroid .2224 .2225
Retroid .2225 .2735
FluxWaveZ .2329 .2486
UltraJay .2453 .2744
cabot .2489
Camjo-Z .2514
FluxWaveZ .2516 .2601
FluxWaveZ .2610 .2657
Boo Boo'n .2677
FluxWaveZ .2687
kingkitty .2700
*Splinter .2741

Karkador & Zippedpinhead (1)
Gorlak .2044 .2057
Ty4on .2271 .2347
Karu .2446

Coppanuva & Flame_AC (0)
Dusk Soldier .1992 .2768

El Topo & Giant Panda (0)
cabot .1625 .1663
cabot .1941 .2028

batsnacks & MagnumBoy20xx (0)
Flame_AC .1745 .1893
Ty4on .2406 .2491

Hobohodo & Ty4on (0)
FluxWaveZ .1920 .2235
cabot .2028 .2146
cabot .2146 .2334
cabot .2334 .2489

FluxWaveZ & Timeaisis (0)
Gorlak .1699 .2040
Camjo-Z .1846 .2086
Coppanuva .1903 .1990
Blargonaut .1911 .2377
TL21xx .2042 .2090
Blargonaut .2377 .2622
FluxWaveZ .2486 .2516

Gorlak & LaunchpadMcQ (0)
Giant Panda .1637 .1640
Giant Panda .1640 .2719
UltraJay .1688 .1695
Coppanuva .1994 .2061

Hyperactivity & kingkitty (0)
cabot .1670 .1941


No active vote for Day 2:
El Topo
Hobohodo
LaunchpadMcQ (has previously voted)
MagnumBoy20xx
Retroid (has previously voted)



Day 2 ends:


15 votes for majority
 

Ty4on

Member
So basically the entire reason everyone jumped on Blarg is "Why would scum claim tracker on D2"?
Yup. That's why I was hesitant to vote because the only reason to choose one was because their action as scum was slightly less contradictory. I've tried my hardest and found no town/scum combo where their claims made much sense because both would have brought so much unnecessary attention to themselves.
The only thing that remotely made sense to me was Kark being scum who figured out Blawl was neutral and wanted a gambit to get towns trust. Then Blawl's claim makes some sense, but that's obviously not the case because then Blawl would have claimed neutral in his mega post.
 

MagnumBoy20xx

Neo Member
OK, just caught up.

I understand why people are suspicious of *splinter and Cabot, but I don't think that lynching them will give us better information than lynching Blarg and kawl.

So for that reason...

vote: blargonaut
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
But seriously, can we turbo the other pair in the next day phase, or is Gafia Short Attention Span™ going to kick in?

No, are you crazy? Or are you scum.

We'll have new stuff to discuss all over again because of the flip we'll be getting this Day phase and what will happen on N2. No need to rush things because of nonsense.
 
No, are you crazy? Or are you scum.

We'll have new stuff to discuss all over again because of the flip we'll be getting this Day phase and what will happen on N2. No need to rush things because of nonsense.

I knew Flux would come out for this comment.

I was being facetious, calm down. But I don't want people to forget the other pair in the next phase, or its just a meaningless bandwagon. I think you'll feel better about me once they've flipped and they turn out that way.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
I knew Flux would come out for this comment.

I was being facetious, calm down. But I don't want people to forget the other pair in the next phase, or its just a meaningless bandwagon. I think you'll feel better about me once they've flipped and they turn out that way.

Oh, I'm calm alright. But there are so many suspect pairs in this game that I don't even see the need to focus on one specifically going from one day phase to the next.
 
I knew Flux would come out for this comment.

I was being facetious, calm down. But I don't want people to forget the other pair in the next phase, or its just a meaningless bandwagon. I think you'll feel better about me once they've flipped and they turn out that way.

Turn out both scum*

If Blarg flips Town, it's gonna be baaad. I'm wondering if scum are counting on it.

Yeah, I'm going to look pretty shitty after, but that's par for the course right?
 
alright, I'm back

Essentially. His complete lack of defense didn't help either

I'd re-quote my megapost for you, but you'd likely not seriously address yourself my WC: 6,344 "lack of defense" like you did when I first posted it and ever since. Kark gave you a shining beacon of easy Miller bus play in his '1-for-1' gambit Today, and you've been taking full advantage of it to hide in plain sight as the lethargic jester (in the non-Mafia definition) of this game, like Launch has.

I realize that Cabot has attempted to critique it on his part and I have not yet replied to that, I'll get to that shortly.
 
It was a contradiction in so far as its the one defining difference of their power that they have both said.

Neither have claimed any other differences.

No, the x-shot vs. unlimited is not the only difference between Kark and I. There is our D1 Miller claim as well that has differentiated us, which I believe your team is using as a convenient excuse to railroad us, when there lynchees Today that would provide far more possible leads than us, like by lynching Timeflux, who you support despite their WIFOM.

Also, Kark's x-shot claim only came AFTER the fact of NeverTim's D1 flip, which showed us all that some Town may possess x-shot roles. x-shot =/= Town-alignment verification, as I've stated in my defense post, as it could possibly be a scum handicap as well.
 

*Splinter

Member
alright, I'm back



I'd re-quote my megapost for you, but you'd likely not seriously address yourself my WC: 6,344 "lack of defense" like you did when I first posted it and ever since. Kark gave you a shining beacon of easy Miller bus play in his '1-for-1' gambit Today, and you've been taking full advantage of it to hide in plain sight as the lethargic jester (in the non-Mafia definition) of this game, like Launch has.

I realize that Cabot has attempted to critique it on his part and I have not yet replied to that, I'll get to that shortly.

Topo was asking why the "debate" has been so one sided. It has become one sided because you gave no defense at all until after we had reached this state.

You know this. I already clarified once.
 
And note that Timeaisis and FluxWaveZ are voting against us, trying to save their highest-profile defenders of their bad gameplay that *Splint and Cabot are to them.
 

Camjo-Z

Member
Sorry fellas, can't join the Splint/cabot vote. My only big reasons to distrust the Splintster are his weird vendetta against me earlier (which he seems to have softened in his death throes?) and his shameful insistence on not placing the turbo vote despite the fact town NEVER does the calm and sensible thing as the clock ticks down, whereas I feel I've made a solid case for getting something positive out of voting Blarg. Good luck saving your hide though, it might just work.
 
Topo was asking why the "debate" has been so one sided. It has become one sided because you gave no defense at all until after we had reached this state.

You know this. I already clarified once.

It has been one-sided before my defense post because your team, as one of the more active in this game, have engendered along with Launch, Timeflux and briefly Kark himself, an environment of dismissive 'just-get-rid-of-us-already' hostility towards us in our absence while we were compiling it.
 

*Splinter

Member
It has been one-sided before my defense post because your team, as one of the more active in this game, have engendered along with Launch, Timeflux and briefly Kark himself, an environment of dismissive 'just-get-rid-of-us-already' hostility towards us in our absence while we were compiling it.

You say "we" a lot, but Kawl had nothing to do with it.

You've made excuses as to your own posting style, but how do you justify muzzling him for most of the day phase?
 
Oh please.

Does it not appear to be true? You've been weaving between us and jumping from side to side with your vote all game, but we all know that in the end, you'll take the easy and most beneficial option for yourself in voting against us to keep your biggest defenders around, that *Splint and Cabot are.

If you want to prove that you're not hiding behind them, and that you, arguably the bigger WIFOM case than us as although we have claimed to be Millers, our claimed Investigative power was actually confirmed (by our biggest accuser of being scum, no less and strangely enough) while yours wasn't and you have even admitted it was a lie; then directly show us all that you aren't by locking your vote against them.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Does it not appear to be true? You've been weaving between us and jumping from side to side with your vote all game, but we all know that in the end, you'll take the easy and most beneficial option for yourself in voting against us to keep your biggest defenders around, that *Splint and Cabot are.

If you want to prove that you're not hiding behind them, and that you, arguably the bigger WIFOM case than us as although we have claimed to be Millers, our claimed Investigative power was actually confirmed (by our biggest accuser of being scum, no less and strangely enough) while yours wasn't and you have even admitted it was a lie; then directly show us all that you aren't by locking your vote against them.

Haha, what is this manipulative crap? Defenders? Who cares about defenders? Since the start, I've had no issue with dying. Again, our lives are expendable. I don't need anyone defending us at all, and I've never sought it.

I would have stayed my vote on Splinter, if you hadn't gone all "is this really happening!? No way" earlier. Pissed me off. I just want to get this over with.
 

Kawl_USC

Member
You say "we" a lot, but Kawl had nothing to do with it.

You've made excuses as to your own posting style, but how do you justify muzzling him for most of the day phase?

If only there was a place where me and Blarg could have pooled our efforts collaboratively....

Blarg didn't 'muzzle' me, I am my own independent person with agency, thank you very much. I didn't see much point in posting piecemeal while waiting for our mega post to be finished up. It was my own choice to step back and take a posting style more aligned with my lover.
 
You say "we" a lot, but Kawl had nothing to do with it.

You've made excuses as to your own posting style, but how do you justify muzzling him for most of the day phase?

After Kark's accusatory debut, Kawl helped me to look through the past discussion and brought-up accusations against us by going back through the pages and pointing them out to me, so I could include and address them in those defense posts of ours. I asked him to step back and help me, as it was hard enough for me to type over 6000 words in a day in our defense without any help. He has admitted to me in our chat that he has felt second-fiddle to me activity-wise for a majority of this game, and I apologized to him for making him feel that way. It was quite touching.

I realize it may look like I pulled him back to in an effort to maintain content consistency before the megapost drop, but the truth of it is I really needed his help to collate this thread's discussion for me, especially since we've been relatively alone in our defense since the case against us began.
 

*Splinter

Member
Blarg didn't 'muzzle' me, I am my own independent person with agency, thank you very much. I didn't see much point in posting piecemeal while waiting for our mega post to be finished up. It was my own choice to step back and take a posting style more aligned with my lover.

I asked him to step back and help me, as it was hard enough for me to type over 6000 words in a day in our defense without any help.

You've come so far guys, don't drop the ball now.


Joking aside, Kawl that's a pitiful excuse, especially from a player of your ability
 
Haha, what is this manipulative crap? Defenders? Who cares about defenders? Since the start, I've had no issue with dying. Again, our lives are expendable. I don't need anyone defending us at all, and I've never sought it.

I would have stayed my vote on Splinter, if you hadn't gone all "is this really happening!? No way" earlier. Pissed me off. I just want to get this over with.

And here you are again promoting yourself as fatalistic power-role bait, but this time it's post-lie backdown? That's more WIFOM. I don't see how I'm manipulating any information here. It has been clear that despite *Splint x Cabot and Kark initially chiding you for your D1-claim, they for some reason defend you staunchly after your 'confession' this Day-start, and it is only recently after my megapost that Kark has begun to actually question you about your intentions with all this.

Now you are blaming me for your flip-flopping. AND you are reiterating your easy Miller 'just-get-rid-of-us-already' TURBO against us.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Are you fucking kidding me? You obviously promised to vote on cabot & Splinter, which you now refuse, because "you were never really serious about the whole thing."

You're the master of constructing bandwaggons.

Did you somehow miss the 5 pages that have happened since that comment was made?
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
And here you are again promoting yourself as fatalistic power-role bait, but this time it's post-lie backdown? That's more WIFOM. I don't see how I'm manipulating any information here. It has been clear that despite *Splint x Cabot and Kark initially chiding you for your D1-claim, they for some reason defend you staunchly after your 'confession' this Day-start, and it is only recently after my megapost that Kark has begun to actually question you about your intentions with all this.

Now you are blaming me for your flip-flopping. AND you are reiterating your easy Miller 'just-get-rid-of-us-already' TURBO against us.

Uh... I'm not really sure what you're saying, but all I'm saying is that 1: I don't care about dying, and 2: I don't care about defenders. You're trying to argue that my stance is the opposite of that, which is laughable.

And yes, YOU are to blame for my flip-flopping, as I plainly said ages ago. My vote was on you, but then the Splinter thing happened and I was SO eager to just turbo him instead. And then you had to just hesitate on that for some bullshit reason. So I'm back to you.
 

cabot

Member
I've only been 'defending' TimeFlux because I can't see a situation where a scum player would claim 6 minutes in without a) sacrificing themselves because it's highly likely gonna end in a lynch at some point and b) I can't imagine a team of at least 3 pairs letting it happen.


I've asked repeatedly why would scumFlux do this, and all I have is no response and people accusing me of defending them and allying with them.

Just give me a credible case where this makes sense.
 

Karkador

Banned
What this basically comes down to is a vote between two things, based on two principles:

Voting for Blarg/Kawlis about whether you think the game's designer would logically put two Trackers on the same team. That's pretty much it.

Voting for Splinter/Cabot is about whether you think a player refusing to hammer an "obvious vote" is someone looking to evade the spotlight once that rather high-profile role flip turns out to be Town (and if they're scum, they would know).

It's meta-game logic vs. scumhunting.
 

cabot

Member
A claim, which they had no way of proving I might add. You could at least pull off some sort of fake claim with fake results as a group as scum.
 

El Topo

Member
Give me a credible case where someone claims miller/tracker on D1 right after someone else claimed name cop.

Because right now the only explanation I have is 'Blarg', which is a solid explanation, but still not particularly satisfying.
 

cabot

Member
What this basically comes down to is a vote between two things, based on two principles:

Voting for Blarg/Kawlis about whether you think the game's designer would logically put two Trackers on the same team. That's pretty much it.

Voting for Splinter/Cabot is about whether you think a player refusing to hammer an "obvious vote" is someone looking to evade the spotlight once that rather high-profile role flip turns out to be Town (and if they're scum, they would know).

It's meta-game logic vs. scumhunting.

Thanks Kark. Top simplifying there. You're a fucking wretch.
 

Kawl_USC

Member
"Asked" "choice"

Hmmmm, it's almost like I could still have pulled a flux and done whatever the hell I wanted despite my partners wishes.

As far as a player of "my ability", my own Gafia showing has been barely short of abysmal all things considered and part of that flaw in my first game has been completely blowing Blarg off in HP. I've made a conscious effort to try to keep and open mind, and seeing inside the "madness" for lack of a better word has proven enlightening. Ive tried to put my ego aside and aid my partner in the way that most behooved us and by extension town.
 
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