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Love Boat [Mafia] |OT| Till Death Do Us Part

LaunchpadMcQ

Banned
Jul 25, 2013
11,808
1
0
I'd like to throw some thoughts out regarding this new development.

Regarding UJ/BB not moving last night, ok. I don't think that necessarily clears them, but considering we had a kill and a chat bomb go off last night, they didn't carry out either of these actions, at least. Depending on how many mafia we are assuming are still left (I'm going with 3 pairs left), we can maybe at least exclude them from the conversation for this day phase until something else comes to light or we're dwindling down on suspects.

As for El Topo and Giant Panda... there is a possibility of scum here. I'm not saying this is necessarily true, but they could be coming out with the bomb now because they've bombed someone else. It's possible that they are mafia and the chat bomb mafia member did not use his power in the last phase. However, I'm not sure this completely adds up.

I'm going to say this chat bomb ability is likely mafia, just because Kark and Zipped were pretty close to confirmed coming into this phase. Plus, separating lovers is a pretty Loveless thing to do.
 

Zippedpinhead

Member
Jun 27, 2012
5,098
0
680
I couldn't tell if you were deliberately trying to mislead or just reading too fast. So I figured highlight tag was the best way to get your attention...

unvote
 

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
790
Norway
I couldn't tell if you were deliberately trying to mislead or just reading too fast. So I figured highlight tag was the best way to get your attention...
Hmm.

Why would I deliberately mislead? The presumed reason I can come up with for Blawl to say it was unlimited was to make it look more powerful than your role.
I'm not writing this as a defense, I'm honestly curious if you had any thoughts on it.
 

Karkador

Banned
Mar 3, 2010
8,599
0
0
*shrug*

El Topo's claim seems to check out, which suggests they're town.

But why did you two split your vote yesterday?

It's one thing to not be able to communicate; but you should at least be able to trust each others rhetoric and come to a consensus.

Splitting your vote in a situation where the two were at one point tied really comes off as a superficial vote.
 

Zippedpinhead

Member
Jun 27, 2012
5,098
0
680
Hmm.

Why would I deliberately mislead? The presumed reason I can come up with for Blawl to say it was unlimited was to make it look more powerful than your role.
I'm not writing this as a defense, I'm honestly curious if you had any thoughts on it.

The thought being that if you were deliberately trying to mislead you would be scum. Blawl always claimed it was unlimited, as they had to sell the Miller claim.

As for the vote, every little bit of investigative work gets us closer to discovering scum...
 

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
790
Norway
The thought being that if you were deliberately trying to mislead you would be scum. Blawl always claimed it was unlimited, as they had to sell the Miller claim.

As for the vote, every little bit of investigative work gets us closer to discovering scum...
Thanks. I just wondered if you thought of any direct advantages scum would gain.

I generally don't read scum as being deliberately misleading. Just seems too risky for me and I haven't really seen it apart from some fake claims to gain trust or explain suspicious behavior.
 

Camjo-Z

Member
Aug 3, 2012
7,780
0
555
Pennsylvania, USA
While we're scumhunting based on fishy votes, am I the only one suspicious of the fact that Dusk Soldier's only real vote yesterday was a sheep vote for Splinter based solely on Gorlak's reasoning (which Gorlak ended up abandoning for a turbo anyway), despite town consensus for the majority of the day being that a lynch between the two trackers was the smartest move, and made only after Kawl's statement that those who don't vote look shady?
 

kingkitty

Member
Dec 6, 2008
9,040
0
0
New York
good riddance to cabot/splinter

anyways, I'm not vibing to the idea that Karkendoor is scum. Hard to see scumKark outing scumKawl as a way to gain townie trust. No reason for the bussing. And then the whole last minute shenanigans trying to take out cabot/splinter. That certainly doesn't help Karkendoor earn townie trust.

timeflux...I'm leaning on not scum for now. Hard to think four scum bros would stick their head out on day 1, within the first hour.

It'll be fun to look back at how people interacted with blargkawl. I'll post my thoughts on that specific area tomorrowish.
 

LaunchpadMcQ

Banned
Jul 25, 2013
11,808
1
0
You know, Flux, there's something that really bothers me about you and Time. First, Time is kind of playing uncharacteristically. Not to say he dominates the conversation typically, but he's generally more invested in proceedings when he's been town in the past. He's actually had some very strong reads and logic to share with the players. This time, he's been struggling to have his presence felt, not even just because of the stunt you pulled on Day 1.

Then there's you. I don't have much experience with you, but you seem a bit overeager to take the center stage. You've not surpassed Splinter or Cabot in that department, but it'd be a pretty convenient thing if they were dead now, right? If you were mafia, I mean? Also, as for your votes in the last phase... I don't think your indecision or flopping itself is indicative of anything - but possibly why you flipflopped so much is. I think if you were mafia, you were probably talking along for that day end with your buddies and trying to figure out how the day would end. So, based on your conversations and that you had already established a reputation of being active, you'd move your vote around without anyone causing a fuss about it and try to save Blawl if you could. You'd be the swing vote for the mafia team if it came down to it.

So, I have to ask... how scummy are you fellas?
 

Karkador

Banned
Mar 3, 2010
8,599
0
0
*shrug*

El Topo's claim seems to check out, which suggests they're town.

But why did you two split your vote yesterday?

It's one thing to not be able to communicate; but you should at least be able to trust each others rhetoric and come to a consensus.

Splitting your vote in a situation where the two were at one point tied really comes off as a superficial vote.

pls respond
 

El Topo

Member
Mar 21, 2011
16,218
0
0
You mean why we did not vote for the same team? I don't think we did that on D1 either. I explained why a vote for anyone but either Karkhead or Bawl was foolish, so I was certainly not going to risk anything there.
 

Karkador

Banned
Mar 3, 2010
8,599
0
0
Well this has certainly been a big swing. Splinter was acting a little sketchy, but not scummy to the point that I would have imagined such a reverse bandwagon possible. But if I'm going to be honest, between Splinterbot and Blawl, I'd rather see Blawl live so that we can continue to get more info from the tracking.

VOTE: Cabot

Eh. Overall it's probably reasonable enough. It is Blarg after all.
VOTE: Blargonaut

This is your explanation?
 

El Topo

Member
Mar 21, 2011
16,218
0
0
This is your explanation?

This:
Lynching Splabot is nonsensical with three claims out there. Fuck that. I don't recall the reasons people presented on why we should believe Karkador instead of Blargonaut, anyone got them handy?

I still stand by that. Made no sense to lynch Splabot with three role claims out there. I also still stand by my assessment from D1/D2 that by far the most reasonable lynch target is TimeFlux.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Jul 24, 2012
38,083
1
0
I still stand by that. Made no sense to lynch Splabot with three role claims out there. I also still stand by my assessment from D1/D2 that by far the most reasonable lynch target is TimeFlux.

Yeah? Well your voting patterns certainly don't show it. You didn't vote on us at all in D2. How about you actually vote for the ones you want to lynch instead of following a bandwagon?
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Jul 24, 2012
38,083
1
0
What the fuck are you talking about?

I thought it was pretty clear. You're saying that the most reasonable lynch target is TimeFlux; my team. Then why didn't you vote for us on D2, and why aren't you voting on us now? Your voting patterns have been matching the flow of the majority thus far; i.e. following bandwagons.
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Feb 27, 2008
18,517
14
1,200
Current vote count:

el topo & giant panda (1)
ty4on

karkador & zippedpinhead (1)
fluxwavez
ultrajay

launchpadmcq & gorlak (0)
boo boo'n

hobohodo & ty4on (1)
zippedpinhead
gorlak

timeaisis & fluxwavez (1)
launchpadmcq

13 votes needed for majority.

 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Jul 24, 2012
38,083
1
0
I asked my mum. She told me I should vote for Flux.

One should always listen to their mother.

But actually addressing something from your previous comment:

Then there's you. I don't have much experience with you, but you seem a bit overeager to take the center stage. You've not surpassed Splinter or Cabot in that department, but it'd be a pretty convenient thing if they were dead now, right? If you were mafia, I mean?

Why would I be happy that I now have more attention placed on me if I were scum, now that Splinter and cabot are gone? That doesn't make sense.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Jul 24, 2012
38,083
1
0
Some people like to play scum by being active instead of lying low.

I mean, obviously since we just lynched a team like that, but that still doesn't mean that a player like that wouldn't want others to occupy the spotlight. That's nonsense.
 

UltraJay

Member
May 8, 2015
723
0
0
35
Australia
Me and Boo didn't do anything last night. We don't have any actions to do.

My Kark theory is based on, "What if Kark is scum?" I always have the flipside of that in mind or, "What if Kark is town?"

That were likely to be protected, so scum would try to inhibit them somehow, while killing someone else. They were probably banking on the idea that Kark wouldn't be watched as another role like that is unlikely.

The fact that they weren't roleblocked is pretty good information that they don't have that ability and adds to the notion that N1 was because of a doctor and not a roleblock or anything else.

While Kark's claim of us not doing anything is not as solid as them watching someone preform an action and then getting that confirm... they also didn't lie and say we did something scummy. That gives them town points.

Like I said in my beginning post: I just wanted to get that theory out there. Especially if we don't survive much longer. If you would notice Kark. Boo didn't follow me on your vote or accusations, he wanted Launch. He didn't even know about it. I also told him to keep his vote on Blawl yesterday, but I don't think he was even around for day end. At the time, if he moved his vote to Cabot, it would have made a tie.

What DID surprise me was seeing Flux vote and accuse Kark as I was typing up my Kark theory. More points to Kark.

Vote:FluxwaveZ
 

UltraJay

Member
May 8, 2015
723
0
0
35
Australia
The fact that they weren't roleblocked is pretty good information that they don't have that ability and adds to the notion that N1 was because of a doctor and not a roleblock or anything else.

Whoops. What I mean by this is that scum probably don't have a roleblocker because they'd obviously use it on Kark and that there is still a doctor out there who is doing a good job by being incognito.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Jul 24, 2012
38,083
1
0
Hm, so unless BooJay and Karkhead are both scum, then Karkhead are actually trackers, and they're most probably town-aligned. I guess there's the possibility that Karkhead are not trackers, and that their N1 results (Blawl tracked) and N2 (BooJay tracked) were given to them by their scum buddies, and they're all in it together. Seems a bit unlikely, though, but something to consider.

My top town reads right now are:

2. [m] Karkador & [m] Zippedpinhead (Likely town-aligned trackers; claimed they were conversation blocked)
13. [m] El Topo & [m] Giant Panda (Claim they were conversation blocked, seeded on D2)

So 9 teams left, and I don't particularly have a top scum list right now...

Eh.

VOTE: Dusk Soldier
 

Timeaisis

Member
May 27, 2011
20,582
0
0
Austin, TX
Sorry, just caught up.

VOTE: Karkador

It seems very convenient you backed off Blarg at the last second to focus on Splinter and wre convinced Splinter was the better choice up till the end. Blarg, who turned scum, and Splinter who obviously was not. You have to admit you had it all wrong. But what I find most odd is that you nor Zipped hammered Blarg, even after all the talk of him being the largest threat. Why? Did you not want your name on the big list of who killed him if he flipped town? It'd make sense that you'd be trying to protect yourself, seeing as you are a tracker.

Still, though...you backed off your gut for Splinter. It's likely you were just second guessing yourself and trying to save your ass in case Blarg was town, but still...it's weird. It's just weird. I know i called you on it and you said you thought Splinter was the better choice, which is still odd because you were the one to reveal that Blarg was likely a liar to begin with.

Thoughts on that, either of you?
 

Timeaisis

Member
May 27, 2011
20,582
0
0
Austin, TX
You know, Flux, there's something that really bothers me about you and Time. First, Time is kind of playing uncharacteristically. Not to say he dominates the conversation typically, but he's generally more invested in proceedings when he's been town in the past. He's actually had some very strong reads and logic to share with the players. This time, he's been struggling to have his presence felt, not even just because of the stunt you pulled on Day 1.

Then there's you. I don't have much experience with you, but you seem a bit overeager to take the center stage. You've not surpassed Splinter or Cabot in that department, but it'd be a pretty convenient thing if they were dead now, right? If you were mafia, I mean? Also, as for your votes in the last phase... I don't think your indecision or flopping itself is indicative of anything - but possibly why you flipflopped so much is. I think if you were mafia, you were probably talking along for that day end with your buddies and trying to figure out how the day would end. So, based on your conversations and that you had already established a reputation of being active, you'd move your vote around without anyone causing a fuss about it and try to save Blawl if you could. You'd be the swing vote for the mafia team if it came down to it.

So, I have to ask... how scummy are you fellas?

Sure, I'll respond to this. I've been on thin ice from the get-go. Anything I say can be taken as confirmation that I'm scum. My big move was being honest with you guys on the start of D2, because that's the only weapon I've got left. I'm not stepping out as much as I usually do, playing defensive if you will. I guess you could say my presence is stilted for that reason. I'm being careful what I say, maybe a bit too much. I'll try to produce something a little more meaty this day phase. I want to dig into Kark's motives for his vote switching for a little bit.

As per the second part, obviously I can't speak for Flux's playstyle.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Jul 24, 2012
38,083
1
0
Anything I say can be taken as confirmation that I'm scum.

Pff, who cares about that.

One more team added to my top town list:

12. [m] Kyanrute NEW & [m] Retroid

Mainly gut feeling, but everything Retroid's been going on about and what he's been proposing since the start doesn't strike me as scum.
 

Gorlak

Banned
Jun 16, 2013
2,078
0
475
Vote: Timeaisis

If there is _one_ thing we should absolutely not waste our time with today, it's the claimed tracker pair Karkador and Zippedpinhead. Let them do their thing and we can talk about it tomorrow or the day after. Anyone stirring discussion in this direction today is very scummy in my eyes. And yes I'm talking about you, Ultrajay, as well.
You're ordinary claim was unnecessary, nobody should give scum more info to work with. Confirming Kark's result would have been enough. Btw. not seeing them move doesn't mean anything. Scum would be dumb to not distribute their night actions to as few persons as possible. Seeing those x-shot powers, it's easy to hold back one night.

Also El Topo and Giant Panda breadcrumbing blocked chat does not confirm they are town, are you all insane? That would be the easiest mafia play. Don't give out power n1, wait for n2-target to speak up on d3, claim being blocked d2 -> "suggest they are town" ... yeah, no.

I don't like how Flux plays. It comes off as somehow arrogant. Furthermore he does not take any responsibility for creating two bandwaggons on two days. Camjo pointed out the dumb play yesterday. In addition to the unnecessary D1 claim, it all doesn't sit well with me. I still can't make up my mind, if scum would be so bold. But I don't assume scum doing sane things in this game anymore.

Hey Flux, what is it today? Do you have a power role, do you want to claim something?

I'd really like for the lowest activity pair to speak up Karu & Dusk. Don't coast along, you're not helping. Who do you think is scum?
 

Gorlak

Banned
Jun 16, 2013
2,078
0
475
Retroid: Can you elaborate a bit more why you think the doc should have saved cabot/Splinter? I don't understand your logic at all.


Soo... does nobody want to take a look at the vote change yesterday? Too much WIFOM?
 

Zippedpinhead

Member
Jun 27, 2012
5,098
0
680
Sorry, just caught up.

VOTE: Karkador

It seems very convenient you backed off Blarg at the last second to focus on Splinter and wre convinced Splinter was the better choice up till the end. Blarg, who turned scum, and Splinter who obviously was not. You have to admit you had it all wrong. But what I find most odd is that you nor Zipped hammered Blarg, even after all the talk of him being the largest threat. Why? Did you not want your name on the big list of who killed him if he flipped town? It'd make sense that you'd be trying to protect yourself, seeing as you are a tracker.

Still, though...you backed off your gut for Splinter. It's likely you were just second guessing yourself and trying to save your ass in case Blarg was town, but still...it's weird. It's just weird. I know i called you on it and you said you thought Splinter was the better choice, which is still odd because you were the one to reveal that Blarg was likely a liar to begin with.

Thoughts on that, either of you?

You've said it right there in your post. We second guessed ourselves. *splinter had left Kark and I with a bad taste in our mouth, no one was voting for what we thought was an obvious lynch at that point. So to prove a point, we decided to stir the pot and see if we could drum up more votes. That's where the *splinter/Cabot vote came from. A bunch of small events that made us go "we need to do something before everyone sits here for 23 hours and scum is able to flip the vote in the last hour dogpile".

Frankly, we were so happy to see Gorlak finally hammer the lynch in we didn't care that it wasn't us that did it.
 

Gorlak

Banned
Jun 16, 2013
2,078
0
475
Unfortunately including the vote changes would have bloated the whole thing and google sheets didn't apply the strikethroughs. So I left them out, but I'm sure there are some interesting jumps in the vote changes... anyway, this is what we got so far:


 

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
790
Norway
Pff, who cares about that.

One more team added to my top town list:

12. [m] Kyanrute NEW & [m] Retroid

Mainly gut feeling, but everything Retroid's been going on about and what he's been proposing since the start doesn't strike me as scum.
Really? Both strike me as two that have slipped under the radar. When I looked after reactions to Blawl I didn't find much from them. Then there is this:
Going to throw my vote down on Blawl today.

It's the right move today, with the added benefit of clearing up any confusion from their antics. I don't see a point in not turbo-ing it at this point, it will allow us to have our next day phase completely over a weekend right?

Blargonaut

Please end the day.

Unvote

Have a midterm tomorrow so have been super busy. Going to unvote and try and briefly catch up.

While I agree, isn't it everyones job to make everyone feel comfortable? They seem to be doing a great job of it, having a lot of posts and what not, but everyone wants to appear to be sided with the larger piece of the pie, even if you are in that.

I thought during the first day they were really great at bringing up interesting points and generally leading the discussion, which is super helpful for town. I don't know if what you have said is necessarily a bad thing?

I do think the opinions on the teams were a bit weird, especially as they seemed to be interested in making lots of posts rather than being helpful in that specific case.
He didn't explain why he goes from wanting Blawl turbo'd to unvoting them.
 

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
790
Norway
Karkador is waiting for me to join in the conversation before revealing what happened.

We got conversation bombed. For one whole day and night phase we can not talk in our lover chat. We even lost access to post in it (though we can see it). Pair 2 Lover chat is closed for this voting day/night phase.
[...]

Do you get a warning when you're bombed or not? Because it from your first line it sort of sounds like you had a warning.