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LTTP: Blade Runner aka the Godfather of cyberpunk

And it's what I expect the new movie to fail at, I expect it to be a story that will shrink the universe and center it all on replicants and humanity, but hopefully I'm wrong.

We didn't even see the space colonies, just some slums and a corporate HQ. We didn't need to see the world, just see this tiny little story in a big world. I really hope they stick to this, and if so then they have room to make a bunch of disconnected stories. If they tie things up together, fuck it.
The reviews and impressions sound promising. "No Country For Old Replicants", one tweet said. "A hard sci-fi detective drama", another,

And I agree, the sense of it being just some small story in this much larger world, another day in the life for Deckard, really worked well
 
Syd Mead deserves a lot of credit for the look of Blade runner.

cc0ba2dbc349557704e9e9b90a875687.jpg


tyrannosaure-net-syd-mead-illustrations-blade-runner+%285%29.jpg
 

fenners

Member
I repeat it all the time but what I liked was that it was an inconsequential story in a big world. Deckard could have done nothing and it would have changed nothing at all. The police just wanted to limit the damage these fugitive replicants could do with the limited lifespan they had left. Essentially some prison escapees on the loose, but nothing serious enough to even release a police squad on them.

And it's what I expect the new movie to fail at, I expect it to be a story that will shrink the universe and center it all on replicants and humanity, but hopefully I'm wrong.

We didn't even see the space colonies, just some slums and a corporate HQ. We didn't need to see the world, just see this tiny little story in a big world. I really hope they stick to this, and if so then they have room to make a bunch of disconnected stories. If they tie things up together, fuck it.

I hope so to. Blade Runner is basically a noir story at its heart - Deckard is a bit player in a bigger story. I hope the sequel stays small too, but the trailers show a lot of locations & scope. :/

I hope it's good. I adore the original. I hope the sequel's good.

I don't think the original story or Blade Runner are cyberpunk per se. They don't feel as fast, loose, as visceral as Neuromancer or Fragments of a Hologram Rose, as punk as Shirley's Freezone characters, etc. PKD was is his own beast. Blade Runner has its own densely packed vision of the future that shares some similarities of mono-cultures & slums, but it doesn't have the boundary-pushing or attitude I'd expect from 80s "cyberpunk".
 

Ether_Snake

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The movie itself might not be cyberpunk, but the world can easily lend itself to it. You can easily imagine people hooking their heads to VR-like devices, doing weird drugs, and we haven't seen anything really from the criminal underworld. We saw almost nothing about social stratification, but we know it's there. There's a lot of room to suggest how the rest of the world is, and I don't see how it wouldn't be very close to cyberpunk.

I wonder if some studio right now is thinking of doing Shadowrun. It would make perfect sense, especially considering everyone is trying to cinematic-universe everything. Whatever the case, hopefully 2049 spawns some good sci-fi or cyber punk movies ahead.
 

Ezalc

Member
I recommend the book if you're interested in seeing more. Aside from changing Deckard's relationship with Rachel quite a bit, there's the whole Mercerism aspect that the movie doesn't even touch. I felt it would have added a lot to the story though it's understandable that they left it out because they probably couldn't fit it in the movie's run time.

Amazing movie though, atmosphere is unmatched and after seeing it and reading the book it cemented Phillip K Dick as one of my favorite authors. I already read his other book Ubik and I'm making my way slowly through A Scanner Darkly.
 
I recommend the book if you're interested in seeing more. Aside from changing Deckard's relationship with Rachel quite a bit, there's the whole Mercerism aspect that the movie doesn't even touch. I felt it would have added a lot to the story though it's understandable that they left it out because they probably couldn't fit it in the movie's run time.

Amazing movie though, atmosphere is unmatched and after seeing it and reading the book it cemented Phillip K Dick as one of my favorite authors. I already read his other book Ubik and I'm making my way slowly through A Scanner Darkly.
Yeah, I'm really interested in the book now. I've read Clarke, Asimov, and Bradbury; probably should make it my first PKD
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Preferred the book.

Cyberpunk = Japan because Gibson et al. The genre was filled with weeaboos. Japan was a burgeoning economic power revolving around technology. Cars, consumer electronics, infrastructure,
anime
, games. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is very subdued philosophical science fiction. I'd be wary of calling it cyberpunk at all, it's more post-apocalyptic and dying earth. Blade Runner is the middle ground between DADES and Gibson's cyberpunk vision (though the movie was released before Gibson finished Neuromancer). Later cyberpunk built off of Gibson's vision because it's more fun.
 

Komatsu

Member
I mean you could argue Deckard doesn't view replicants as having any rights and thus doesn't consider his actions to be wrong. It arguably fits with his arc...

But then you're also ignoring the off-putting "sexy saxophone" playing in the background to try and play this off as romantic, and the weird pattern of creepy rapey tendencies Harrison Ford's most iconic characters tend to have.


Blade Runner is a great movie, but it's all in spite of that scene.

The acting in that scene was rather wooden, as Ford and Leonard hated each other's guts. That being said, Rachael literally says "I want you" to Deckard before their lovemaking ensues. The scene is clearly written, intended and acted as noir-ish romantic, not as Deckard (Ford) forcing himself onto an unwitting replicant.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
The acting in that scene was rather wooden, as Ford and Leonard hated each other's guts. That being said, Rachael literally says "I want you" to Deckard before their lovemaking ensues. The scene is clearly written, intended and acted as noir-ish romantic, not as Deckard (Ford) forcing himself onto an unwitting replicant.

I mean after he forces her to...

By any standard, that scene is incredibly fucking rapey. Like she is literally on the verge of tears through most of that.
 
The acting in that scene was rather wooden, as Ford and Leonard hated each other's guts. That being said, Rachael literally says "I want you" to Deckard before their lovemaking ensues. The scene is clearly written, intended and acted as noir-ish romantic, not as Deckard (Ford) forcing himself onto an unwitting replicant.

It's been a few months since I last watched Blade Runner, but I'm pretty sure that Deckard tells Rachel to say "I want you." He's instructing her to do as he tells her in that scene.
 

Komatsu

Member
It's been a few months since I last watched Blade Runner, but I'm pretty sure that Deckard tells Rachel to say "I want you." He's instructing her to do as he tells her in that scene.

You might be right. I haven't watched BR since the definitive edition came out circa 2008.
 
The first novel I chose to write was something that was heavily inspired by the ideas presented by this movie and the world of Alien, the works of H.P Lovecraft. Cyberpunk was introduced to me at a very, very young age, the earliest memory I have have seeing Bladerunner was my uncle showing me the Theatrical, and a vhs that I would come to realize as an adult was a copy of the Workprint cut that was on the blu-ray that I have. Obviously not in the same quality as that insanely amazing blu-ray, actually Alien, Aliens, Bladerunner with all the stuff from that 5 disc set is incredible, mine is the re-release that is like a book with some art from the film.

Cyberpunk was forever evocative to me as a 90s kid when I first saw them so young I never had any concept of time, everything was new to me, the context of the movie was timeless for me.

I lived in South LA too, so it was surreal seeing a movie depicting a future that I thought wow that could be real. it was scary, it scared me like Alien did, but in a more existential way, Alien had that effect on me too because to my young mind my only association with aliens was ET, when I was around five or so my uncle exposed me to Lovecraft and Poe, Machen, a lot of others. Alien and The Thing always came to me as a very real, lovecraftian kind of thing of what could be out there, Bladerunner was the other side of the coin of that represents the human experience of discovery and death, the nature of consciousness, life in the universe, creating synthetic life, and what does it really mean to be human?

I think Alien and The Thing present space is a very hostile place, much like Earth. I think Alien's subtle corporate subplot is amazing, shaping up these big mega evil corporations. This was something I loved about Verhoeven's Robocop too, it presented this evil extreme logical end of a lot of attitudes we see today.

Phillip K. Dick's original story isn't to the same psychological depth as say, Ubik or any of his later works, honestly, I feel like he didn't try to try a lot of philosophical, or psychological depth to his work till later in his career, his skill, which was immense developed into something remarkable creating science fiction greats that will stand the test of time and scrutiny much like Lovecraft's best, racism free works. The notion that Bladerunner doesn't ask these questions via either visual storytelling or subtle dialogue, is frankly ludicrous. Bladerunner mirrors the story of the book fairly well thematically, irregardless of the stupid shit Ridley says, the film has always been one that was more fun with interpretations, I think the different cuts highlight and change the opinion of a lot of people. I personally love the Final Cut quite a lot, the fact that the soundtrack is more minimalist, you hear more of the world and its propaganda, its people, you can see some of the inspiration for some of the air advertising vehicles in Watchmen(the comic book).

It gives a stronger sense of place, The Workprint cut only enhances this, I also laugh at people who say there are minimal differences, the movie changes pretty crazily depending on which cut you see. Sure, the overall journey is similar but different camera angles, dialogue choices, soundtrack choices, entire scenes that were either different or cut, no narration, some narration, full narration.

Like, the movie is insane in the way it tries to show the natural outcome of what people at the time felt like the future was going to be. In a lot of ways the film isn't wrong, in a lot of other ways the film is like any other creative thing, sure it will have inaccuracies, but the way Bladerunner rings so true, is the same way that the Nostromo felt like a real ship. A lot of it had to do with the production of the film, it was expensive, and if I remember came after Legend which bombed.

Workprint is probably my favorite, when I finally saw it I had put it off for so long I thought it interesting that stuff I remembered didn't show up in the other cuts I saw, my uncle must have had the only vhs copy of the workprint somehow. So, I think I will probably rewatch this soon.
 
The movie itself might not be cyberpunk, but the world can easily lend itself to it. You can easily imagine people hooking their heads to VR-like devices, doing weird drugs, and we haven't seen anything really from the criminal underworld. We saw almost nothing about social stratification, but we know it's there. There's a lot of room to suggest how the rest of the world is, and I don't see how it wouldn't be very close to cyberpunk.

Neither the film nor the story has that type of basis though. As several mentioned, Neuromancer is the forerunner of the genre and it's introduction of the networked society completely separates it from Dick's story.
 
Neither the film nor the story has that type of basis though. As several mentioned, Neuromancer is the forerunner of the genre and it's introduction of the networked society completely separates it from Dick's story.
I've been under the impression that Blade Runner was the visual inspiration for the cyberpunk genre, and seen such sentiments in many articles over the years and whatnot.
 

JB1981

Member
Yeah, I'm really interested in the book now. I've read Clarke, Asimov, and Bradbury; probably should make it my first PKD

The movie is better in my opinion. They are diametrically opposed thematically and I think the movie's themes are more interesting
 
The first time I saw this film was when the director's cut was aired for the first time on UK television, with an introductory segment provided by Mark Kermode just prior I believe (although that could be incorrect - my memory is crap in general). I was a young teen and I went into the film expecting Indiana Jones in the future. Why? I have no idea, but at the time Harrison Ford was the king of top quality blockbuster fodder in my mind, so I was sure I was getting another action fest with elaborate set-pieces and quips by the dozen.

That's why anyone who dislikes Blade Runner, and there are a lot of these people out there, I totally get where they're coming from. It's one of my favourite movies now, but sitting through it for the first time left me utterly confused and shrugging my shoulders. It was a far weirder film than I was expecting and I didn't like that. At all. I just didn't get it.

Thank god I gave it another chance months later, that's all I can say.
 

wazoo

Member
I don't think the original story or Blade Runner are cyberpunk per se. They don't feel as fast, loose, as visceral as Neuromancer or Fragments of a Hologram Rose, as punk as Shirley's Freezone characters, etc.


At least Gibson thinks BR nailed Cyberpunk when he was struggling in his own words to finish Neuromancer. I do not mean BR "is" cyberpunk, because Scott did his own things disrespectful of something that was not even conceived.
 
I've been under the impression that Blade Runner was the visual inspiration for the cyberpunk genre, and seen such sentiments in many articles over the years and whatnot.

It's certainty, aesthetically , one of the most relevant products ever made and it's heavily influences on cyberpunk visuals are undeniable, but the genre really materializes itself from Neuromancer. Computerization, cyberization, cyberspace, network societies, japan's role, etc. Even Akira which Otomo started in 82 is, like BR, more post-apocalyptic dystopia than what is defined as cyberpunk.

Visually they all derive from older french comics. You look at Long Tomorrow and the crowded multicultural city, the layered architecture, the hover cars, it's all already there.

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7E0Go1Vl.jpg
 

Addi

Member
I watched it for the second time last week and loved it even more this time around. It has a particular vibe and atmosphere no other movie has. I have to say though, if Blade Runner is the Godfather, then it's Michael Corleon because Don Vito Corleon is Fritz Lang's Metropolis.
 
i just love, love, love the world building. i think it's unequaled. the sense of big brother always watching with the constant search lights. it still looks so good too.

the one thing i hate though is the awkward quick cut when leon shoots the other blade runner in the interrogation scene. looks so cheesy.
 
I don't mean to yell at clouds here, but as uncomfortable and rapey as the sex scene is rightfully viewed today, at the time it was not intended to be anything but a love scene. The soundtrack isn't ironic, it's not a commentary on Deckard's beliefs about replicants, it's really just Deckard falling in love with Rachel. The '80s had a lot of movies with fucked-up attitudes about sex.

I mean you could argue Deckard doesn't view replicants as having any rights and thus doesn't consider his actions to be wrong. It arguably fits with his arc...

But then you're also ignoring the off-putting "sexy saxophone" playing in the background to try and play this off as romantic, and the weird pattern of creepy rapey tendencies Harrison Ford's most iconic characters tend to have.

Blade Runner is a great movie, but it's all in spite of that scene.
And yeah, Blade Runner definitely isn't "perfect." The romance between Deckard and Rachel really doesn't hold up and every time I try to think of the sex scene in the appropriate context (i.e. that it's wrong and that what Deckard is doing in the scene is wrong), I can't because the dressings of the film are designed to make you side with Deckard on the situation (i.e. the sexy sounding sax synth love theme). You're supposed to buy that it's a legitimate romance scene... and it totally isn't.

It's a glaring blemish on an otherwise mindblowing gem of a film. I could probably nitpick about some other stuff here and there if I wanted to, but that's the biggest flaw that comes to my mind pertaining to Blade Runner.
My GOAT. Just wish it didn't have the rape bit, but such was the climate back then about the portrayal of females.
The acting in that scene was rather wooden, as Ford and Leonard hated each other's guts. That being said, Rachael literally says "I want you" to Deckard before their lovemaking ensues. The scene is clearly written, intended and acted as noir-ish romantic, not as Deckard (Ford) forcing himself onto an unwitting replicant.
"Leonard"? You mean Sean Young.
I mean after he forces her to...

By any standard, that scene is incredibly fucking rapey. Like she is literally on the verge of tears through most of that.
 
Oh, and this
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
might be one of my favorite moments in a sci-fi film. Up there with 2001’s opening or first seeing the ships in Arrival and others

Not only does it just light up your imagination with wonderful imagery, it says so much so concisely about the film’s themes and the nature of what is human and the destructive force of dehumanization and subjugation. We want to know more, we know to hear more of those stories, but we never will
 

Tuck

Member
I didn't see that scene as decker forcing himself on her. Well, I mean, he absolutely did, but I don't think the intent was that he didn't care about her. I think it was a weird 90s thing of both parties wanting it, and the guy "taking chatge". Totally gross by today's standards, but I think it was meant to be romantic...?

Oh, and this

might be one of my favorite moments in a sci-fi film. Up there with 2001’s opening or first seeing the ships in Arrival and others

Not only does it just light up your imagination with wonderful imagery, it says so much so concisely about the film’s themes and the nature of what is human and the destructive force of dehumanization and subjugation. We want to know more, we know to hear more of those stories, but we never will
I watched the film last night for the first time, and this stuck out to me as well, both the dialogue and delivery. It really does light up one's imagination. You've said it better than I could hope to.
 
I also just watched this for the first time this week (the International Theatrical Cut). I watched it with a group that was split between those who hadn't seen it before and those that did. After seeing it, pretty much everyone who had watched it for the first time agreed that they didn't think it was good. While I agreed with them that some aspects of the film were kind of rough, the setting was superb, the cinematography was gorgeous, and the story was very well done and contained (except the romance as mentioned in the OP). I'm planning on watching the Final Cut soon, and I absolutely cannot wait to watch 2049 with the same group to get everyone's thoughts.
 
I also just watched this for the first time this week (the International Theatrical Cut). I watched it with a group that was split between those who hadn't seen it before and those that did. After seeing it, pretty much everyone who had watched it for the first time agreed that they didn't think it was good. While I agreed with them that some aspects of the film were kind of rough, the setting was superb, the cinematography was gorgeous, and the story was very well done and contained (except the romance as mentioned in the OP). I'm planning on watching the Final Cut soon, and I absolutely cannot wait to watch 2049 with the same group to get everyone's thoughts.

Should have never some the theatrical. The final cut is superlative.
 
Should have never some the theatrical. The final cut is superlative.
The only reason we went with the theatrical over the final was because one of the guys who has seen it hates the unicorn scene. I'm watching the Final Cut now, and I'd gladly take that scene over all of that shitty narration.
 
The only reason we went with the theatrical over the final was because one of the guys who has seen it hates the unicorn scene. I'm watching the Final Cut now, and I'd gladly take that scene over all of that shitty narration.

Yah that’s odd because the unicorn scene is like...10 seconds...lol
 

Aphexian

Member
It felt like it came out of nowhere. Treating her like just another machine makes sense, he even said that was his mindset regarding replicants. But the romance and wanting her and forcing himself on her seemed completely out of character, compared to how he had been presented previously

He does it in the book, most likely why it's in there.
 
I really hope 2049 takes its time and allows itself room to breathe. Movies today have no patience. Would this shot be in a modern version of Blade Runner? I doubt it.

blade-runner-deckard-balcony1.jpg


Villenueve is my hope, though. He demonstrated patience in Arrival.
 

Aphexian

Member
The movie is better in my opinion. They are diametrically opposed thematically and I think the movie's themes are more interesting

The movie has great visuals, mixing noir and future tech, but story wise it's crap. It has remnants of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? as plot points but it barely grazes on the idea that the androids have no concept of empathy compared to the book, this also completely cuts out the idea of Mercerism, their religion that they made because only humans can feel empathy. Also, doesn't really touch on animals being status symbols, which is why he asks if the owl was real.
 
This film was our year 12 text 10 years ago and that kinda ruined it for me with the endless analysis of every minute thing. I recently purchased the Final Cut Bluray so I'm looking forward to revisiting it after all these years.
 

Aphexian

Member
What is the version that is the recommended version again? I have the older collector's blu-ray that has the 5-6 versions on it.
 
I’d change a couple things in final cut: bring back “I want more life fucker” and not insert “Sorry Sebastian. Come, come” after Tyrell’s death. We all know Roy is heading towards him...those lines weren’t necessary.
 
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