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Opinion LTTP: Doom Eternal

wd40

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Oct 5, 2020
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I mean, I’m not very good at video games, but I couldn’t even beat some of Eternals levels on the lowest difficulty setting. And I constantly got owned by those atronochs without hitting their weak points. I guess if this is the way doom is heading, then I’m out, because that isn’t fun to me. Sucks to be me I guess... and everyone else who had the same complaints as me.

The game is just out of balance imo. Never played a video game where I couldn’t even handle it on the lowest difficulty. I really hope they find a way to bring myself and others like me back to Doom with the next installment
Really? Honestly I thought 2016 was harder. Though that might be becasue I 100%'d 2016 last month so it's all pretty fresh in my mind lol. I don't think it's out of balance, in fact I think it's really really balanced lmao. Apart from the Mauraders, fuck those lads. I hope they don't try water it down honestly, because theres loads of slower paced shooters around, like COD:BO Cold War, Deathloop, Bioshock 4 whenever they decide to show anything on that lol, DOOM's ace in its sleeve is it's speed.
 
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Kev Kev

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Really? Honestly I thought 2016 was harder. Though that might be becasue I 100%'d 2016 last month so it's all pretty fresh in my mind lol. I don't think it's out of balance, in fact I think it's really really balanced lmao. Apart from the Mauraders, fuck those lads. I hope they don't try water it down honestly, because theres loads of slower paced shooters around, like COD:BO Cold War, Deathloop, Bioshock 4 whenever they decide to show anything on that lol, DOOM's ace in its sleeve is it's speed.
doom was never about MOAR speed for me.

this is what I wanted the doom sequels to be, but with updated graphics...


it doesn’t look Uber fast or difficult, no glory kills or chainsaws, no weak spots, just lots of ammo, big guns, fun as balls and bloody as hell
 
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Ixion

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Sep 18, 2010
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I mean, I’m not very good at video games, but I couldn’t even beat some of Eternals levels on the lowest difficulty setting. And I constantly got owned by those atronochs without hitting their weak points. I guess if this is the way doom is heading, then I’m out, because that isn’t fun to me. Sucks to be me I guess... and everyone else who had the same complaints as me.

The game is just out of balance imo. Never played a video game where I couldn’t even handle it on the lowest difficulty. I really hope they find a way to bring myself and others like me back to Doom with the next installment

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that Doom Eternal is awesome, but the franchise needs a bit of a course correction. I certainly don't want it slowed down, but I do feel they should rethink the big emphasis on juggling cooldown abilities and also the overly geeky story.

Really? Honestly I thought 2016 was harder. Though that might be becasue I 100%'d 2016 last month so it's all pretty fresh in my mind lol. I don't think it's out of balance, in fact I think it's really really balanced lmao. Apart from the Mauraders, fuck those lads. I hope they don't try water it down honestly, because theres loads of slower paced shooters around, like COD:BO Cold War, Deathloop, Bioshock 4 whenever they decide to show anything on that lol, DOOM's ace in its sleeve is it's speed.

Nah, Doom 2016 is definitely easier. The combo of Plasma Stun + Double Barrel Shotgun makes every enemy a pushover. Eternal doesn't have anything like that as far as I know.
 

wd40

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doom was never about MOAR speed for me.

this is what I wanted the doom sequels to be, but with updated graphics...


it doesn’t look Uber fast or difficult, no glory kills or chainsaws, no weak spots, just lots of ammo, big guns, fun as balls and bloody as hell
All I can really tell you is to give Eternal another go, it's not that hard lol. Just really try and make use of all the mechanics, were you using the chainsaw or enemy weakpoints?
 
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Kev Kev

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All I can really tell you is to give Eternal another go, it's not that hard lol. Just really try and make use of all the mechanics, were you using the chainsaw or enemy weakpoints?
I will one day, I found a way to have fun with it once I got the infinite ammo disk. But then I just used the plasma gun or double barrel the whole time.

before I got the disk I was basically just trying to avoid heavy damage, move constantly (CONSTANTLY), get out of dodge and find whatever pick ups I could, jump back in fire off a shit ton of ammo going for weak spots whenever I could (I tried avoiding weak spots and just unloading, but I only had so-so results), do a glory kill or chainsaw every 2 or 3 enemies and try not to have shit aim (but the game is so slick it’s like I shoot all around them every time 😂)

I’ll finish it one day. There are so many things they fucking nailed with eternal. Like the atmosphere and settings, the sounds of enemies and doors ❤️(I love that they sampled the old sound clips), the music is fantastic, I actually thought the story was cool even though it was absurd, the imps looked amazing, n fact most of the enemies were near perfect lookingn imo... and more. I still think it’s a good game, just not my cup o tea

Oh and I love the base stuff and all the suits. Upgrades and all that were cool too. It has a lot going for it
 
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Bartski

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Way too colorful, vibe switch from Hellraiser to He-man. Feels like a parody of Doom 2016.

Level design usually a great-looking mix of nostalgia and nonsense with tons of platforming straight out of Mario.

Arena combat gets old fast but is a lot of fun, both super intense and actually fair IMO, big plus.

Technically excellent, looks great runs great, absolutely killer music. Meathook rules, a good variety of arsenal, overall really good combat imo.

I understand why people hate ammo management but that didn't bother me much, I actually kind of liked fighting Marauders.

Codex lore is cringe overkill kind of ruining what Doom 2016 started, don't bother.
 

Nikana

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Yeah, I'm of the opinion that Doom Eternal is awesome, but the franchise needs a bit of a course correction. I certainly don't want it slowed down, but I do feel they should rethink the big emphasis on juggling cooldown abilities and also the overly geeky story.
I think these are the growing pains that they have run into trying to take Doom forward. While Doom Eternal works on a level that many will never achieve, even when you reach that level its still crazy complicated. I am all for keep the speed but I do not think removing a few things like the ice grenade is a bad idea.

It reminds me a bit of Dante in DMC3 and newerer. You can pick up Dante and pull of some cool stuff but then hop on Youtube and watch someone who has mastered Dante and its like you are watching a different game being played. Granted, I think Doom Slayer and Eternal are fare easier to master than something like that due to perfect dodging and such.

I think the Ancient Gods cleaned up the story in many ways that was far more easy to digest but it lost its sense of humor somewhere between 2016 and Eternal. I am all for deeper lore but it doesnt need to be oozing with so much lore that its impossible to understand like a Dark Souls game.

My controversial opinion is they need to drop grenades from the Arsenal entirely. It makes sense in the modern version of the game in terms of fitting into what a modern shooter is, but it feels like a "no skill" weapon compared to the rest of the Slayers arsenal.
 

SirKicksalot

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I finished Super Gore Nest last night.

There is no pacing because everything is EXXTREME TO THE MAXXX, including moving from one room to the next. Instead of making mildly amusing better-than-walking-I-guess platforming like DmC they really tried to make it skill-based, and I'm not playing Doom to bing bing wahoo my way through the apocalypse.

They completely misread Doom 2016's scripted moments. In 2016 the first Hell Knight encounter is a big WTF moment when he simply jumps over a fence right in front of you. Now every enemy is introduced like that and it's annoying. In 2016 when you got a new weapon the next encounter was a fun empowering moment demonstrating the weapon's potential; now it's either nothing special or a complete panic scenario like with the chaingun.

The combat is too rigid. It does not matter that they give you all these toys - every single scenario has an optimal flow and going against it is cumbersome. There's no room for experimentation in combat... And no room for thought. It's pure instinct, you just gotta match the correct toy to the correct demon. You could play Doom 2016 like Shotgun Simulator. You could explode pop rockets all day long in Rage and nailgun your way through Quake without a care in the world. Eternal forces you to play like the designers want, not like you want. There's no way to improvise and adapt. Because it's so rigid they spawn zombie and imp pinatas in every encounter to make sure you actually get enough resources for their optimal design.

The best thing about it is that it recycles old Doom 4 levels. Makes me happy to finally see them running on my PC.
Though I'm not sure why they recycle Quake 4's general flow so far, including a copy of the Stroyent facility plot :pie_thinking:
 

Phobos Base

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I'm a bit torn on it to be honest. The flow of combat was great when you could get into the zone, and the way you could go from the brink of death to fully healed in a manner of seconds always kept you on edge. Some fights were just so intense I had to take a break afterwards, and the increase in smaller encounters made it feel less arena based than Doom 2016. Looks utterly beautiful, the soundtrack is amazing, runs incredibly smoothly and all the weapons and demon desings are great. The ammo management never bothered me, since you can easily get more from fodder enemies

That said, the platforming sections were just awful, and trying to play with a controller was just an exercise in frustration as you'd see the grab prompt but still miss it anyway. They also went overboard with the difficulty, and there's now that obnoxious "git gud" mentality around the series which is odd seeing as Doom 1-3 weren't difficult outside of their hardest setting. I'm not a fan of the new lore either, it was better when you were just a marine killing everything between you and the exit. Also hearing him speak, or the audio logs of the female scientist practically having an orgasm over how great you are was pure cringe. Interacting with other people seemed like a missed opportunity in general, there's a lot that could have been done even with him saying nothing. All we really got was that scene dedicated to you getting the plasma gun, even though you'd already picked it up several levels prior.

Oh, and fuck the Marauders as well, they were miserable to fight and felt designed for a completely different game. One on one it wasn't too bad, but when you had half a dozen other demons lobbing shots at you, and him sending out those ghost dogs to mess with your aim, it was infuriating.
 

Kev Kev

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Oct 25, 2012
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I finished Super Gore Nest last night.

There is no pacing because everything is EXXTREME TO THE MAXXX, including moving from one room to the next. Instead of making mildly amusing better-than-walking-I-guess platforming like DmC they really tried to make it skill-based, and I'm not playing Doom to bing bing wahoo my way through the apocalypse.

They completely misread Doom 2016's scripted moments. In 2016 the first Hell Knight encounter is a big WTF moment when he simply jumps over a fence right in front of you. Now every enemy is introduced like that and it's annoying. In 2016 when you got a new weapon the next encounter was a fun empowering moment demonstrating the weapon's potential; now it's either nothing special or a complete panic scenario like with the chaingun.

The combat is too rigid. It does not matter that they give you all these toys - every single scenario has an optimal flow and going against it is cumbersome. There's no room for experimentation in combat... And no room for thought. It's pure instinct, you just gotta match the correct toy to the correct demon. You could play Doom 2016 like Shotgun Simulator. You could explode pop rockets all day long in Rage and nailgun your way through Quake without a care in the world. Eternal forces you to play like the designers want, not like you want. There's no way to improvise and adapt. Because it's so rigid they spawn zombie and imp pinatas in every encounter to make sure you actually get enough resources for their optimal design.

The best thing about it is that it recycles old Doom 4 levels. Makes me happy to finally see them running on my PC.
Though I'm not sure why they recycle Quake 4's general flow so far, including a copy of the Stroyent facility plot :pie_thinking:
I can’t tell if you like the game or not 😂
 

Dr.Morris79

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doom was never about MOAR speed for me.

this is what I wanted the doom sequels to be, but with updated graphics...


it doesn’t look Uber fast or difficult, no glory kills or chainsaws, no weak spots, just lots of ammo, big guns, fun as balls and bloody as hell
Kev Kev gets it. The modders of Brutal Doom get it. AAA studios? Ehhh, they dont get it.

Gaming seems to be fast becoming like Hollywood to me, little studios get 'games', major AAA studios (Hollywood), havent a clue. On occasion they'll pump out a Joker, or JoJo rabbit but on the whole it's normally guff. And some people love guff, but true gamers see past it.
 

SoftFromware

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Last time I commented on Doom Eternal was a few weeks ago, just a day after I played it for the first time. I was a bit down on it.
Since then, it’s grown on me terribly. The gameplay is just so fun.
I’ve read some great points in this thread ‘against’ Eternal, and funnily enough, I agree with them all - at least to a certain extent.
But this game keeps me coming back, regardless of it’s flaws. Even after 100%’ing it, something I haven’t done in years.
I believe the core gameplay loop is so cleverly crafted that, after engaging it on the higher difficulties, it becomes an actual addiction.
The mark of a great game?
(This hobby is weird sometimes...)
 

bender

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Eternal took everything I hated about 2016 and cranked it to 11 and then threw in platforming. The moment to moment action and feeling of the guns is great, but I just never loved the resource management via combat finishers/chainsaw. I'm all for collectables and challenge rooms in games, but they feel like more of a necessity than an option in 2016/Eternal if you want all the upgrades. It just kills the pacing of the game. Also Doom doesn't need weapon/suit upgrades and skill trees.
 

crozier

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I almost forgot the biggest improvement: the controls are no longer floaty. I’d love Doom (2016) settings that mimic the way Doom Eternal controls.
 

Balducci30

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story is ridiculous. Luckily it can be easily ignored.

The core of the game is killing demons that that was awesome. I really liked the dash and other abilities you got. The resource management wasnt my favorite but I eventually got used to it.
I’m not getting the story critiques? Is it not purposefully ridiculous? Like it seems like they’re overdramatizing it’s ridiculous nature on purpose for comedy - akin to any grind house or bmovie
 
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Balducci30

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Eternal took everything I hated about 2016 and cranked it to 11 and then threw in platforming. The moment to moment action and feeling of the guns is great, but I just never loved the resource management via combat finishers/chainsaw. I'm all for collectables and challenge rooms in games, but they feel like more of a necessity than an option in 2016/Eternal if you want all the upgrades. It just kills the pacing of the game. Also Doom doesn't need weapon/suit upgrades and skill trees.
I can get that, it really feels like it’s own type of game. Like almost similar to soulsborne type games with a bit more improvisation allowed - I personally find having all these things to keep track of crazy engaging in a way I really don’t get with games from pure gameplay usually.

Like I don’t do drugs anymore but this game would probably be awesome on cocaine. It’s kinda got that energy.

EDIT: actually scratch that - this game IS cocaine (I have never played videogames on coke I doubt that would ever be my first choice). And listen alcohol is my favorite thing to take this analogy further - but there’s a lot of alcohol out there and it’s good to have some games be cocaine - especially if it’s doom which is kinda the perfect franchise to make this way. There really is not a huge disconnect in its evolution from the OG dooms - certainly not close to doom 3 levels. Nowadays they’re pretty tame but they used to feel very intense - it makes sense it would evolve in this way instead of the scripted events version of FPS games the industry focused on after half life.
 
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It’s actually pretty simple to distill why there are complaints and why people like 16 better.

Level design
Combat
Story.

1) Eternal might seem more interesting because of the platforming, but it’s tedious and adds nothing to the game. I have seen people mention before that they need a break in-between fights. That itself is a problem with Eternal. I never experienced that feeling with any Doom but this one. The levels feel too busy visually, too many misplaced colors and whatnot. Let’s not forget about the purple goop that slows you down occasionally.

2) Many people complained that you can just shotgun your way through 16 and that certainly true. I just don’t see how that’s a bad thing though? Making a sequel highly specific in terms of encounters is just about the most un-Id Software thing ever. The Marauder is an ass sure, but with a couple of tweaks, he can be great.

3) I don’t think that the story is great in either game, but Eternal commits the egregious sin of presenting us with a story with a myriad of gaping holes. Where did The Fortress Of Doom come from? Why does it feel like a massive war is taking place but we don’t truly participate in it? Not to mention, is there some sort of Hierarchy in Hell? Why were so many demon types absent in 16, but not in Eternal?
 

Balducci30

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It’s actually pretty simple to distill why there are complaints and why people like 16 better.

Level design
Combat
Story.

1) Eternal might seem more interesting because of the platforming, but it’s tedious and adds nothing to the game. I have seen people mention before that they need a break in-between fights. That itself is a problem with Eternal. I never experienced that feeling with any Doom but this one. The levels feel too busy visually, too many misplaced colors and whatnot. Let’s not forget about the purple goop that slows you down occasionally.

2) Many people complained that you can just shotgun your way through 16 and that certainly true. I just don’t see how that’s a bad thing though? Making a sequel highly specific in terms of encounters is just about the most un-Id Software thing ever. The Marauder is an ass sure, but with a couple of tweaks, he can be great.

3) I don’t think that the story is great in either game, but Eternal commits the egregious sin of presenting us with a story with a myriad of gaping holes. Where did The Fortress Of Doom come from? Why does it feel like a massive war is taking place but we don’t truly participate in it? Not to mention, is there some sort of Hierarchy in Hell? Why were so many demon types absent in 16, but not in Eternal?
I want to address these because all of what you said is true but I disagree with it on a fundamental level.

The encounters are so intense you need a break - that is not a bad thing AT ALL - that’s what’s great about it, but it’s really fuckin intense you can’t stay in that state forever and backing it up with some decent platforming totally affects the flow of the game and makes it more fun because you never know when it’s gonna turn into a blood bath and get super difficult. I really look at this as almost using the soulsborne series philosophy it requires you to learn the mechanics and make use of them so you actually feel like a badass - I mean just go back to levels you could barely get past initially and it’s a cake walk.

Im enjoying the story because it’s waaay over the top - the plot holes, all of it seems standard b-movie features being parodied and I’m almost positive that’s what they are going for - nothing is actually serious, it’s all ridiculous and pouring that much into the entirely skippable and ignorable lore makes it funnier. But that’s my taste - I like that it’s taking itself way too seriously when it’s incredibly dumb - that’s the joke.

I mean it being colorful I guess is just preference - this game really feels like a video game and the cartoonishness just magnifies that. Maybe it’s people having a strong connection to the franchise or just not giving it a real chance due to the name Doom, the difficulty and different gameplay loop than the previous one. I don’t know all I can say is I’m actually pretty blown away by how good it is I don’t have much of an attachment to the franchise though.
 
Oct 31, 2020
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I want to address these because all of what you said is true but I disagree with it on a fundamental level.

The encounters are so intense you need a break - that is not a bad thing AT ALL - that’s what’s great about it, but it’s really fuckin intense you can’t stay in that state forever and backing it up with some decent platforming totally affects the flow of the game and makes it more fun because you never know when it’s gonna turn into a blood bath and get super difficult. I really look at this as almost using the soulsborne series philosophy it requires you to learn the mechanics and make use of them so you actually feel like a badass - I mean just go back to levels you could barely get past initially and it’s a cake walk.

Im enjoying the story because it’s waaay over the top - the plot holes, all of it seems standard b-movie features being parodied and I’m almost positive that’s what they are going for - nothing is actually serious, it’s all ridiculous and pouring that much into the entirely skippable and ignorable lore makes it funnier. But that’s my taste - I like that it’s taking itself way too seriously when it’s incredibly dumb - that’s the joke.

I mean it being colorful I guess is just preference - this game really feels like a video game and the cartoonishness just magnifies that. Maybe it’s people having a strong connection to the franchise or just not giving it a real chance due to the name Doom, the difficulty and different gameplay loop than the previous one. I don’t know all I can say is I’m actually pretty blown away by how good it is I don’t have much of an attachment to the franchise though.
Que? DE design philosophy is vastly different compared to Soulsborne. DE is difficult, but way more forgiving compared to something like Dark Souls.

I’m not willing to give the story a pass for not being serious or seemingly lighthearted with all that lore. Why create the codex in the first place? Just seems like filler.

I’m not trying to change your mind here, just my two cents.
 

Balducci30

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Que? DE design philosophy is vastly different compared to Soulsborne. DE is difficult, but way more forgiving compared to something like Dark Souls.

I’m not willing to give the story a pass for not being serious or seemingly lighthearted with all that lore. Why create the codex in the first place? Just seems like filler.

I’m not trying to change your mind here, just my two cents.
In terms of forcing the player to learn mechanics it feels extremely similar to soulsborne games - it doesn’t have you start the level back over completely like them but it does give me almost the exact feeling as something like Demons Souls. It has difficulty levels, more checkpoints, and the pace of it is way higher but the same feeling of intensity and frustration when I make a miscalculation in combat and have to repeat the encounter again - It’s more forgiving but condensed and at a way higher speed so it kinda makes it balance out.
And in terms of giving the story a pass - I’m not saying it should get a pass for anything at all but it just seems intentionally ridiculous which puts it into a genre of absurd comedy that is not really constrained by the same logical rules as a story played straight, one that tries to mimic actual reality in some way - like I’m not going into a movie like “Sharknado” and worrying about plot holes because it’s inherent in the concept that it’s totally nonsense.

EDIT: maybe I’m just not educated enough - but I legitimately can’t think of a single FPS game that plays like this. It feels like a genuinely unique experience. Are there others like it?
 
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In terms of forcing the player to learn mechanics it feels extremely similar to soulsborne games - it doesn’t have you start the level back over completely like them but it does give me almost the exact feeling as something like Demons Souls. It has difficulty levels, more checkpoints, and the pace of it is way higher but the same feeling of intensity and frustration when I make a miscalculation in combat and have to repeat the encounter again - It’s more forgiving but condensed and at a way higher speed so it kinda makes it balance out.
And in terms of giving the story a pass - I’m not saying it should get a pass for anything at all but it just seems intentionally ridiculous which puts it into a genre of absurd comedy that is not really constrained by the same logical rules as a story played straight, one that tries to mimic actual reality in some way - like I’m not going into a movie like “Sharknado” and worrying about plot holes because it’s inherent in the concept that it’s totally nonsense.

EDIT: maybe I’m just not educated enough - but I legitimately can’t think of a single FPS game that plays like this. It feels like a genuinely unique experience. Are there others like it?
No, I don’t think there are many similar playing games.
 
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Camreezie

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I think the sequel Is going to be fucking amazing. But I'm in two minds about whether they scale back the platforming or take it to another level
 

Balducci30

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Should I play 2016 before Eternal? Or is it not required for the story?
I haven’t. I think maybe it’s better to just go in on this one as I’m not comparing it to the 2016 one. I dunno the story is really so ridiculous and skippable it doesn’t matter - it’s more about the gameplay which coming in cold took me about an hour to give an honest try and now I think it’s one of the best games I’ve ever played so.
 

Velius

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Doom Eternal is fucking awesome and anyone who disagrees probably eats microwaved soy

Only thing I didn't like was the severely limited ammo. I get what they were going for but I just didn't like it. It's hard to say whether I like it or Doom 2016 better. But the levels in DE are fucking amazing. I'd say in terms of level design the Hell ones in the original are better, but most of the levels in DE are better.
 
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SirKicksalot

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"dude let's spoil future demons with the slayer gates lmao" - Hugo Martin while holding the franchise hostage to his very particular taste

I just died in the Mars Core gate because I thought the Diablo 3 angel enemy is a totem. Great readability, folks.
This is the Transformers 2 of the franchise. Man I hope they don't fuck up the inevitable Quake fantasy game, because Doom is now properly fucked with this everything AND the kitchen sink design.
 

Balducci30

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"dude let's spoil future demons with the slayer gates lmao" - Hugo Martin while holding the franchise hostage to his very particular taste

I just died in the Mars Core gate because I thought the Diablo 3 angel enemy is a totem. Great readability, folks.
This is the Transformers 2 of the franchise. Man I hope they don't fuck up the inevitable Quake fantasy game, because Doom is now properly fucked with this everything AND the kitchen sink design.
Wow I did not have that experience, or think any of the enemies were totems - wasn’t Doom Eternal like pretty highly rated? And are you talking about the Michael bay Transformers 2?
 
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