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LTTP: Final Fantasy XIII, one of my top 5 games of all time.
- Thread starter Ermac
- Start date
toastyToast
Member
Poor, insultingly cheesy story. I thought they learned something from XII. SE seems to have no concept of what a good idea is when they stumble upon one. Give the player unprecedented freedom in one entry then strip
it all away in the next entry. Have a mature albeit underdeveloped plotline and rather than improving, follow it up with some Saturday morning cartoon tripe. I will commend them for creating interesting and intriguing worlds at the same time condemn them for doing practically nothing with them without fail.
My ultimate complaint about the game is with the story including characterization and pacing. All atrocious. The game was just a pain to progress through. The battle system while fun couldn't quite save the game for me.
I wouldn't mind seeing the rest of your top 5 as I'm struggling to rationalize how someone could of this game as anything above just good.
it all away in the next entry. Have a mature albeit underdeveloped plotline and rather than improving, follow it up with some Saturday morning cartoon tripe. I will commend them for creating interesting and intriguing worlds at the same time condemn them for doing practically nothing with them without fail.
My ultimate complaint about the game is with the story including characterization and pacing. All atrocious. The game was just a pain to progress through. The battle system while fun couldn't quite save the game for me.
I wouldn't mind seeing the rest of your top 5 as I'm struggling to rationalize how someone could of this game as anything above just good.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
toasty_T said:
He put them at the end of his post. It's only one sentence and he didn't draw attention to it so I'm not surprised that people missed it. They were MGS2, Valkyria Chronicles, Resident Evil 2, and Mega Man X.
Almost any criticism of Thirteen I can justify if not agree with. The one I can't really follow is the thought that the game was too easy or that you could ever set it
(!!!!) and five star the game. It's more than hyperbolic......or I seriously overestimate myself.
and forget it
toastyToast
Member
Not the most provocative list aside from FFXIII although I'm not surprised that I'm at odds with someone who prefers MGS2 to it's superior sequel.Stumpokapow said:
So does anyone actually like this game BEFORE you get to Gran Pulse and gain complete control of your characters and some amount of freedom? A lot of people are talking about hunting and farming and stuff, but since that's so far into the game, I'm assuming people who like it must've also enjoyed the 20 hours before that? I'm trying to gauge if there's any point in me continuing to play the game. I've played for about 12 hours, and so far everything about the game is horrible to me. The battle system has a lot of potential and COULD be fun, but since I'm never free to choose characters or have a full party it consists of nothing more than spamming A until I have to heal. If I have to play until Gran Pulse before it gets better, I'll simply put the game away and never play it again. If it gets better before that, please explain how. I'm genuinely interested in hearing if anyone likes this first section of the game, and if so, why.
cosmicblizzard said:
I'll be honest, I really didn't like either of them.
I did not like FF XIII due to the A.I, frenetic and fast combat, the extremely linear nature and no towns. There was almost nothing to explore, felt I was going down a tunnel.
With FF XII, I liked it much better than XIII, but again, did not like the combat system. The real-time/turn-based mixture did not do it for me. I found it moved too quickly to input all my commands and it felt very awkward to do the "pause combat, input command, unpause combat and play out. Then pause combat again and repeat".
The last FF I truly enjoyed was X. I would like to see a return to a slower, more deliberate combat system like turn-based. Even a slower version of the ATB system would work for me, too. Like FF IV-IX.
cosmicblizzard said:
Yeah I think this is probably the case. XII is one of my favorites and XIII is near the bottom.
Edit: My problems with the game were
1) Battle system: Buff->fight till someone is low on health-> heal-> rebuff-> fight. Not really strategic. Also too much luck involved sometimes and the AI wouldn't always do what I wanted it to and summons were shitty and only helped when your party was about to die to prolong the battle
2) weapon crafting/upgrading was crap
3) no side quests till about 30 hours in
Ledsen said:
Learning the command and method of the battle system is fun for a time but they wait far too long to transition from theory to practice. If you like the system, try to find compulsion to trudge through the few remaining hours until the game opens up for you. The game won't try to help you do so, it will try to exasperate you. Don't let it get to you. Put the game on mute. Throw on some good music. Brew a pot of coffee. You can't have much time left.
Prime crotch
Banned
What I still dont get is how the myth that the game becomes good past 20 hours came about? It doesn't, in fact Pulse is just as crummy as the rest of the areas, and not made better by the awful mission system.
SonicX_Zero
Member
I can't say I would put FFXIII in my top 5 games of all time, but I enjoyed the overall experience of the game. My problem with FFXIII were mostly in the earlier part of the game with the whole character switching and for the most part during those portion you could only control a pair at a time which would have been fine for an hour or two, but SE dragged things way too long. I was also disappointed with Jihl's character considering she had her share of screen time during the trailers only to be sidelined.
On the flip side, I love the battle system definitely one of my favorites in the series.
On the flip side, I love the battle system definitely one of my favorites in the series.
Fimbulvetr
Member
ZephyrFate said:
Not really.... or at all.
Anyway. My relationship with XIII is weird.
I started off massively hating it for the pre pulse chapters(disappointed etc.etc.), then I thought it was okay for some of pulse, then I realized that a good chunk of the hunting missions were extremely half-assed and now I think the game is just mediocre.
Ledsen said:
Sure. I liked the game about as much before chapter 11 as I did after chapter 11. The gameplay is largely the same, the only difference being what characters you can use in your party and hence what roles you have available. Every part of the game is pretty well designed to showcase the various systems of the game and the challenge before you get a full party is that each chapter is designed to force the player to figure out how to best make use of the limited roles the fixed character parties have available to overcome the dungeon.
If the core gameplay mechanics are fun and balanced, I don't see why it makes any difference as to how much freedom the player has. Freedom is a part of design and giving a player more or less freedom is not inherently better or worse.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Someone hasn't played Star Ocean 4atbigelow said:
Fimbulvetr
Member
The_Technomancer said:Someone hasn't played Star Ocean 4
I normally make jokes about people playing JRPGs for the story, but you'd have to be insane to touch SO4 if story is the most important thing for you.
At least some other stories have a redeeming quality to latch on to. SO4 is painful.
Scythesurge
Member
I like XII International and XIII, they are both enjoyable for different reasons.cosmicblizzard said:
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Okay yes, a lot of people like both XII and XIII. My point is it's not unusual at all to like only one of them since they're COMPLETELY different.
I actually like the first half more. Chapter 8 is my favorite chapter. Of course I loved it from chapter 3 and on, so I doubt your opinion will change.
Ledsen said:
I actually like the first half more. Chapter 8 is my favorite chapter. Of course I loved it from chapter 3 and on, so I doubt your opinion will change.
Fimbulvetr
Member
I actually kind of like Nautilus.cosmicblizzard said:
If only because of Sazh's Blitz.
GhaleonQ
Member
Man, Square Enix may have botched this generation, but you can't deny that their games are still "important." Ermac's 2 posts had almost no content or justification, and this made it to 4 pages!
It's time to make a topic. "Door Door: All-Time Great And Supreme Commentary On The Digital Age?" And then a picture of the blob.
Class.
It's time to make a topic. "Door Door: All-Time Great And Supreme Commentary On The Digital Age?" And then a picture of the blob.
BocoDragon said:
Class.
John Rabbit
Banned
top 5 ever? no.
top 5 of 2010? quite possibly. i'm really enjoying it thus far.
top 5 of 2010? quite possibly. i'm really enjoying it thus far.
I like the battle system, the music and the environments, but not enough to call it a top 5 of all time. Even of 2010.
In the end, the pacing was ridiculous. As has been repeated ad nauseam, the first 20 hours was a tutorial. They gave you three characters in the beginning and then, inexplicably, took them away.
I felt like I was on a story-progression treadmill the entire time. No chance of stopping and doing different activities.
The story concept had potential, but in the end was only a trite, melodramatic romp through frivolity. A step back from FFXII's which was high-brow and political, although underdeveloped.
The character development system was pointless. They might as well have had all characters auto-level. There was no freedom in developing anyone, they all have a predetermined path. You only get to decide WHEN they level up.
So while the locations were beautiful and I actually enjoyed the battles, I will never replay it again. Give me FFXII any day.
In the end, the pacing was ridiculous. As has been repeated ad nauseam, the first 20 hours was a tutorial. They gave you three characters in the beginning and then, inexplicably, took them away.
I felt like I was on a story-progression treadmill the entire time. No chance of stopping and doing different activities.
The story concept had potential, but in the end was only a trite, melodramatic romp through frivolity. A step back from FFXII's which was high-brow and political, although underdeveloped.
The character development system was pointless. They might as well have had all characters auto-level. There was no freedom in developing anyone, they all have a predetermined path. You only get to decide WHEN they level up.
So while the locations were beautiful and I actually enjoyed the battles, I will never replay it again. Give me FFXII any day.
uncledonnie
Banned
Certainly to each their own, but I felt it was a big disappointment. I forced myself to complete it but it was definitely more work than fun. I thought the series made tremendous strides with XII so I was really hyped for XIII, but I also liked X so I'm not against that style of game either.
XIII just has too many strikes against it. The entire first half of the game is a hand-cuffed tutorial that wears thin way before it's over and kills any replay value. There is no sense of exploration at all except on Pulse. The story was awful and required reading a ton of background text just to have any hope of following along. The characters pretty much have no soul to them and I didn't care about any of them by the end of the game except maybe Sazh. The battle system had some great ideas but they are poorly executed. You don't have enough control and too often end up hoping the AI will do the right thing, especially for the tougher fights. Really the only thing the game does right is presentation, the environments and music are excellent but they don't come close to redeeming the rest of the problems.
XIII just has too many strikes against it. The entire first half of the game is a hand-cuffed tutorial that wears thin way before it's over and kills any replay value. There is no sense of exploration at all except on Pulse. The story was awful and required reading a ton of background text just to have any hope of following along. The characters pretty much have no soul to them and I didn't care about any of them by the end of the game except maybe Sazh. The battle system had some great ideas but they are poorly executed. You don't have enough control and too often end up hoping the AI will do the right thing, especially for the tougher fights. Really the only thing the game does right is presentation, the environments and music are excellent but they don't come close to redeeming the rest of the problems.
I kind of regret the 60 or so hours I spent on it. The battle system was fun, but there were a lot of times where I didn't like what my AI partners were doing or where they were situated. There was nothing I could do on this fact. To add insult to injury I didn't like how SE dolled out the gameplay mechanics and kept switching my party around even after 20 or so hours of play. Ridiculous.
The linear corridor experience was awful to swallow too. I didn't feel like I was exploring at all. Just that I was partaking in a visual interactive novel, one that didn't have the story to justify participating.
The graphics were fantastic as was the music. That's what kept me playing, and to a lesser extent, the battle system. I enjoyed the character designs and the voice acting. The voices were professional but the delivery and direction given were bad. On the subject of the characters I couldn't really care about any of them because of how little back story they were given, or how they didn't have any time to interact with one another. The overall story itself was a disappointment because everything felt so disjointed from the area stages to the plot pacing.
It was not worth the five or so years it took to release. Its amazing how much better the story is in Nier and how long that game is compared to FF13. That, and Mass Effect 2 has better dialog/acting in a single conversation than anything in FF13. Both were the superior Rpgs this year.
Not a bad game by any means, but damn, Square let me down.
The linear corridor experience was awful to swallow too. I didn't feel like I was exploring at all. Just that I was partaking in a visual interactive novel, one that didn't have the story to justify participating.
The graphics were fantastic as was the music. That's what kept me playing, and to a lesser extent, the battle system. I enjoyed the character designs and the voice acting. The voices were professional but the delivery and direction given were bad. On the subject of the characters I couldn't really care about any of them because of how little back story they were given, or how they didn't have any time to interact with one another. The overall story itself was a disappointment because everything felt so disjointed from the area stages to the plot pacing.
It was not worth the five or so years it took to release. Its amazing how much better the story is in Nier and how long that game is compared to FF13. That, and Mass Effect 2 has better dialog/acting in a single conversation than anything in FF13. Both were the superior Rpgs this year.
Not a bad game by any means, but damn, Square let me down.
Die Squirrel Die
Member
duckroll said:
I definitely agree with this. Maybe it's why people don't think they Sentinel is as useful as the other classes. It's kinda the last one to get properly introduced and by that time there's a good selection of other roles.
I still prefer chapter 11 onwards, but calling everything prior to that tutorial is the sort of dismissive snark that has unfortunately become all too pervasive in game analysis.
tea_and_crumpets
Member
ultron87 said:
When there are comics made about how bad the game is *see thread* - its officially 'got hate'.
Anticitizen One
Banned
I like FF XIII too but the lack of HD towns and its linearity detract from the experince
Anticitizen One
Banned
BocoDragon said:
Actually its ERROR MACRO
ZephyrFate
Banned
Thank God it's miles ahead of its predecessor, but I'm glad you had to seek out my post like some stalker.Fimbulvetr said:
Rahxephon91
Banned
Yes I actually think the game is pretty great before then. I liked the parts where you just have Szah and Vanilie, trying to kill enemies as fast as possible with their classes is actually pretty fun and challenging. Like the battle with the lizard things, it required me to be pretty foucsed and switch to my load-outs at the right time. Other then that I enjoyed the battle system throughout. I don't really get the 20 hour tutorial comments. For the most part you have the battle system by chapter 2?(whatever chapter after you get your powers). Sure they ad extra things to the battle system up until chapter 11, but I'm not sure how that makes it a long tutorial.
And I'm not sure how 13 miles of ahead of 12, but whatever. I guess it comes down to what you look for in a game.
Fimbulvetr
Member
ZephyrFate said:
Oh joyous. Your usual <make assertion> <get called out on assertion> <act nonchalant because you can't form arguments> defense.
ZephyrFate
Banned
When you can actually form any argument worth a damn, believe me, I'll match you.Fimbulvetr said:
Fimbulvetr
Member
ZephyrFate said:
Then why don't you go ahead?
Why is FFXIII's story better than XII's?
ZephyrFate
Banned
XII has a generic Star Wars plot layout with pretentious faux-British voice acting and dialogue, that goes wildly off-base halfway through due to its sick director. Many of the characters are totally extraneous to its plot.Fimbulvetr said:
FFXIII, for as shitty as it is, has at least some focus.
Twilight Princess
Member
ffxiii was awesome, i had tons of fun. hours of enjoyment without stress is exactly what i need from gaming at the moment. yes, it is a linear game, but the cut scenes and the battle system more than make it up so that it's not boring.
much looking forward to a prequel!
much looking forward to a prequel!
ZephyrFate said:
I thought the Arcadians were the only ones that had the British accent?
And were not many of their voice actors actually British?
Also, why are we arguing about the plots of 12 and 13? They were both equally shitty and written by the same man. FFXII just happened to be fortunate enough to get the superior translation and lore.
makingmusic476
Member
I only had three issues with the game:
Other than that I really enjoyed the game. The battle system was awesome, the graphics were downright stunning (particularly the 720p particle effects/transparencies, which most games cut down to 1/4th that resolution or even lower - it gave the game a vibrancy like no other), the character models were great (<3 Lightning), and I loved the music. The game was just too drawn out, and the story wasn't close to being good enough to keep you interested that entire time.
- First half of the game was too grindy. It's like they took each area and made it 10x as long as it should've been, just so they could brag about the game's length. There wasn't much actual content making the game longer (quests and whatnot), it was just more of the same over and over again. I think if they had cut most of those areas in half, the game would've been much better for it, despite being shorter than your usual FF (30-40 hours vs 60+).
- Some enemies had way too high defense and too low attack, turning the battle system from something frantic and fun into something tedious and boring. Most enemies fit the battle system quite well, however. I absolutely loved the system otherwise.
- The characters were idiots that seemed to have absolutely no common sense. Their actions were usually downright irrational, but even for an irrational person they usually didn't make sense. Half the time I was thinking "why the fuck would you do that?"
Other than that I really enjoyed the game. The battle system was awesome, the graphics were downright stunning (particularly the 720p particle effects/transparencies, which most games cut down to 1/4th that resolution or even lower - it gave the game a vibrancy like no other), the character models were great (<3 Lightning), and I loved the music. The game was just too drawn out, and the story wasn't close to being good enough to keep you interested that entire time.
Rahxephon91
Banned
I think Zephyr has me on ignore, but whatever.ZephyrFate said:
How is the plot like Star Wars? I see this thrown out a lot, but not really explained. Is it because of Balthier? Yes he is a bit like Han Solo, but having the rogue character is pretty normal. I don't remember Star Wars being about Luke trying to get revenge on Vader because he killed his girlfriend. Meanwhile Vader just wants to free the world from the Jedi gods who control this world and are also trying to manipulate Luke into being their sword. Star Wars is about the heroes journey, FFXII tried to have an aspect about that with Van and failed, but is mostly about overcoming fate and taking control of your destiny.
And the dialogue is hardly pretentious, it's subtle and has an air of maturity. How is it pretentious? When the character's say something they refer to things in a clear matter, but not in your face like anything in XIII. It's dialogue also ads to the game and creates atmosphere, which adds to XII's already great world building. As for faux British, well whatever. The people that do have accents in the game are in fact British.
Anyway as for the story falling apart, so does 13 and in a more comical way. The entire end of the games plot goes against it's theme. XIII may have been more foucesd compared to the uneven plot of XII, but XII's ending does not contradict itself.
Fimbulvetr
Member
The similarities to starwars are cosmetic at best, XII uses it's themes and tropes in a way that greatly differentiates itself from the original trilogy.ZephyrFate said:
ZephyrFate said:
The VA and dialog in XII are significantly ahead of XIII's. I'd understand "pretentious" if you were talking about WotL, but definitely not XII.
As opposed to XIII which goes nowhere because it's writer just sucks.ZephyrFate said:
Yes, as opposed to XIII which treats most it's "characters" like tools to be immediately ignored after use.ZephyrFate said:
Oh and Vaan, Penelo, and Fran aren't many.
Yup, I'll chime in appropriately when I'm home later. On my phone at the moment, lolJerk 2.0 said:
But basically, the two main problems for me are the dangerous degree to which battle automation works well in the game, and the general lack of control brought about by an ultra-simplification of a forced gambit system in battles. I think they're both dangerous trends the series may emulate in future installments.
Was honestly very happy with the speed of battles though and the overall, um, luminosity and polish of the visuals. It's a gorgeous looking game.
The_Technomancer said:Someone hasn't played Star Ocean 4
At least SO4's story was a jumble of cool concepts (exploring alternate-dimension Earth, exploring uncharted worlds, meeting up with Type 3 civilizations, first-contact with alien life) presented extremely poorly. FFXIII's "on the run" storyline that rushed you headfirst into its confusing endgame at 100 miles an hour didn't really have much that was interesting about it.
Maybe not one of my top 5 games, but certainly my third favourite FF, closely to FF4.
Pretty amusing to see that all the FF games that I prefer (IV, VII, X, XIII) got a sequel (well, FFXIII-2 isn't really confirmed but I'm confident) or prequel of some sort (exception of FFXII that I don't like that much)
One of last year's top 5 games though, yeah.
Pretty amusing to see that all the FF games that I prefer (IV, VII, X, XIII) got a sequel (well, FFXIII-2 isn't really confirmed but I'm confident) or prequel of some sort (exception of FFXII that I don't like that much)
One of last year's top 5 games though, yeah.