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LTTP: Just played and finished TLOU2

rofif

Gold Member
I love Death Stranding and I loved TLOU1. The characters in TLOU2 just don't resonate with me at all nor do I care about their motives or feelings. They also take some incredibly stupid decisions in order for the game to go where the writers wanted it to go, that sometimes I would be left scratching my head and wondering how do these people function as humans.
fair enouh.
you like Death Stranding so there must be some cool bro left in you
Joe Biden Bromance GIF by Mashable
 

arvfab

Member
I do find it rather lackluster that a game that, while incredible in a lot of areas, is incredibly stale in gameplay innovation, was able to snag so much recognition away from titles and developers who put in the work for carrying forward the actual GAME part of videogames.

I mean, like what you like, champion for your cause, but you won't quote-gacha me. My favorite games are OoT, FFVII, RE4, and MGS4, so obviously I value a healthy blend, but I maintain that a lot of the praise this title caught was by pedigree alone.

But TLOU2 has fantastic gameplay, so what's the problem?
You want to go Rambo? Go for it!
Melee only? There you go.
Stealth? Sure.
 
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TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
But TLOU2 has fantastic gameplay, so what's the problem?
You want to go Rambo? Go for it!
Melee only? There you go.
Stealth? Sure.

I mean, yeah, there are plenty of options, but a lot of people I've spoken to have echoed a similar sentiment: that beyond animations, it feels a lot like something from a gen before it's time. Jumping, going prone, and (I believe) firing from prone were the only real innovations to the game over the first part, in so far as mechanically controlling your character go. Sound design, facial work, mocap, graphics, etc, are all vastly improved, but the actual game feels lifted from the PS3 almost 90%.
 
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arvfab

Member
I mean, yeah, there are plenty of options, but a lot of people I've spoken to have echoed a similar sentiment: that beyond animations, it feels a lot like something from a gen before it's time. Jumping, going prone, and (I believe) firing from prone were the only real innovations to the game over the first part, in so far as mechanically controlling your character go. Sound design, facial work, mocap, graphics, etc, are all vastly improved, but the actual game feels lifted from the PS3 almost 90%.

Please, tell me which game introduced major innovations then, maybe I missed them?
Or what kind of innovations/evolutions in gameplay did you want/expect?
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Please, tell me which game introduced major innovations then, maybe I missed them?
Or what kind of innovations/evolutions in gameplay did you want/expect?

You've missed every innovation in gaming history?

Final Fantasy II introduced target correction so that if you spent your turn attacking an enemy who died before your attack, you moved on to the next living foe automatically without whiffing.

Ocarina of Time introduced Z-Targeting, which was widely replicated in the future.

Metal Gear Solid was one of the first games to utilize full voice acting.

Resident Evil pioneered 3D Survival Horror.

Do you want me to stay here all night as a wiki?

As far as TLOU2 goes, I'd have enjoyed more storytelling through gameplay, beyond "having a conversation while walking," type stuff. MGS2 had Raiden being stripped and captured, which in game affected his ability to grab objects, attack, and even gave him colds. Ellie gets stabbed through the chest and hung upside down all day, is fine. Do something INTERESTING with things like that. Have some varied gameplay. There's no "Joel tied a fridge fighting hordes upside down," sections. There are two setpieces. Two. Fuck it, make a couple more bosses. Do something with your rope physics and have some actual environmental puzzles. Put some choice in direction in. Make some more "pick your own adventure," type areas like downtown Seattle. Actually give the player the choice to spare enemies, instead of throttling them into killkillkill. They present it like you have a choice, but it's all just window dressing to distract from the fact that it's the exact same as last time.

If they put half of the effort into game-wide innovation as they did into accessibility options (which they did an INCREDIBLE job at) then this would absolutely be my GOTG, barring some pacing issues I feel the story has.
 
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arvfab

Member
You've missed every innovation in gaming history?

Final Fantasy II introduced target correction so that if you spent your turn attacking an enemy who died before your attack, you moved on to the next living foe automatically without whiffing.

Ocarina of Time introduced Z-Targeting, which was widely replicated in the future.

Metal Gear Solid was one of the first games to utilize full voice acting.

Resident Evil pioneered 3D Survival Horror.

Do you want me to stay here all night as a wiki?

As far as TLOU2 goes, I'd have enjoyed more storytelling through gameplay, beyond "having a conversation while walking," type stuff. MGS2 had Raiden being stripped and captured, which in game affected his ability to grab objects, attack, and even gave him colds. Ellie gets stabbed through the chest and hung upside down all day, is fine. Do something INTERESTING with things like that. Have some varied gameplay. There's no "Joel tied a fridge fighting hordes upside down," sections. There are two setpieces. Two. Fuck it, make a couple more bosses. Do something with your rope physics and have some actual environmental puzzles. Put some choice in direction in. Make some more "pick your own adventure," type areas like downtown Seattle. Actually give the player the choice to spare enemies, instead of throttling them into killkillkill. They present it like you have a choice, but it's all just window dressing to distract from the fact that it's the exact same as last time.

If they put half of the effort into game-wide innovation as they did into accessibility options (which they did an INCREDIBLE job at) then this would absolutely be my GOTG, barring some pacing issues I feel the story has.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but I meant recent innovations in the genre.

PS: you can skip whole areas, without killing anyone if going stealth.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Sorry for the misunderstanding, but I meant recent innovations in the genre.

PS: you can skip whole areas, without killing anyone if going stealth.

Yeah, I just remembered the stealth thing. Kind of hard to pull off, but that DID impress me. I also suppose the dogs were another addition, but I felt they were underutilized.
 

Woggleman

Member
I don't get the whole deal about about fans being treated like this. Everybody has the right to their opinion but I don't get people expecting a Disney ending in TLOU of all things. It was always a dark, arthouse style kind of storytelling.
 

Kerotan

Member
Yeah people around here don't take too kindly to people not liking this game. I have been reply banned from several topics by fanboys who need their hive mind safe space when it comes to this one. It's funny how these same people will bitch about resetera silencing opinions, while they themselves silence different opinions. Oh well.

I'm worried for your safety OP, come over to mine until the mob dies down. I've got a nice tea and biscuits we can have, my windows are triple glazed so you won't hear the death chants.

Be safe bro. People gonna spam the report button on you like no end.
TLOU2 hater defense force got here quick. First 3 posts you guys are fast!

I disagree OP I loved it but I preferred TLOU1.
 

Roufianos

Member
I just turned all the difficulty sliders down and ran through the burning island and suburb parts. I genuinely lost interest.

You can't build a story to a climax then expect people to play another 12 hours before they get a resolution. They should have let you finish the whole game from Ellie's perspective then unlocked Abby's side.

Some of the worst pacing I've ever seen.
 
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rofif

Gold Member
Dodging was added too. More verticality within the levels. Improved melee.

Lots of changes compared to part 1.
1 is really simplistic if you play it now. You walk through small corridors and enter small arenas.
simplicity is good but it did aged more than I expected
 
The Last of Us is the ultimate example of a perfect and self contained story that didn’t need a sequel.

I can only imagine ND were pressured from up high to make TLoU2.

It’s a shame, but it is what it is. In my head, it isn’t canon.
Yeah I normally hate open ended stories but this one was perfect how it was at the end of the first game. It's just cool having that final line
 

Shmunter

Gold Member
Wtf I cannot understand how can anyone have this harsh opinion on it.
the game is like an empathy test. You can fast see who is stubborn and jaded.
IMO the game is a masterpiece. Graphics, gameplay, story and characters.
funny thing is, I kinda hated half of it but I let go and the game won me over big time.
like it teaches a lesson….

The game is slow and serious. It’s just not for everyone

this is the best review.
“you might have won the game but you lost the game with yourself”
I know right. Immersing yourself in an intricately built environment, exploring fragments of a past time is too Slow, but collecting 10x flowers for an old hag in rpg 1024 is riveting gameplay. Shakes head.
 
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Certinty

Member
It’s sad because I loved the graphics, gameplay, voice acting and level design.

Everything else though just sucked. Story was bad, new characters were horrendous, the game just kept on going and overstayed its welcome by far too long.

Shame really because they probably got the harder to achieve aspects of the game right but shat away what the first game did so well.
 
I am probably one of the few that didn't mind Abbey, but I didn't like the constant changing mind of Ellie on if she wanted revenge. I get that's the narrative.... But it just bothered me. The last segment where you play as Ellie searching for abbey again, and then freeing her and then fighting for her to the death and then freeing her again.... That segment was long and boring imo.

Id still rate it a great game but that bit was deffo too long for me.
 
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I had the same opinion as you after finishing the game about a week ago, OP. GAF told me I didn't understand the game.

Like okay cool. If I didn't understand the game, that's on the game, not on me. 👍
 

Deerock71

Member
But it's woke, which will never be realized when most woke bitches can't get get motivated enough to beat a game that provides a challenge, because there are not enough safe spaces.
 

Justin9mm

Member
I feel like half the people that don't like TLOU2 don't like long story games in general, the story is a good slow burn. Nothing wrong with the pacing.

It's like me trying to play a turn based rpg game, I don't like them but I don't play one and then proceed to tell everyone how boring it is.

I didn't think TLOU2 was long at all.. I'm not even sure how people even expected anything different.
 

Haggard

Member
The story felt forced and was downright retarderd at some points but the actual gameplay and the level of technological expertise and polish this game oozes out of every pore more than make up for that.
Amazing game.

Btw. People playing something for 20+ hours and then claiming they hated every minute of it will never not be ridiculous.
 
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Batiman

Member
I finally finished it on the weekend after buying it last Christmas. The game is just boring as shit. The combat is pretty cool with great animations but that’s it
 

Woggleman

Member
I feel like half the people that don't like TLOU2 don't like long story games in general, the story is a good slow burn. Nothing wrong with the pacing.

It's like me trying to play a turn based rpg game, I don't like them but I don't play one and then proceed to tell everyone how boring it is.

I didn't think TLOU2 was long at all.. I'm not even sure how people even expected anything different.
This right here. It's like hating Chinese food and then eating at a Chinese restaurant and complaining that they don't serve pizza.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Isn't the doctor a bit of an ass too for performing lethal surgery without informed consent from the patient?

That would fall under murder(Jerry knows the result will be death for Elly) in modern western societies.

Yeah but everyone kinda knew it would kinda “save” human kind. I think Ellie was cool with it, didn’t she know?

Both sides have there cases. I probably would of done what Joel done and saved my family member or loved one too, but doesnt mean its the right thing to do overall.
Yeah that would be murder. But the TLOU world is kinda society-less lol

Id love to see some some DLC set in a country out of USA. Like South America or Asia. I liked how different California felt overall and looked
 

Ulysses 31

Member
Yeah but everyone kinda knew it would kinda “save” human kind. I think Ellie was cool with it, didn’t she know?
Elly didn't know she'd have to die when going to that hospital. Marlene seems to confirm that by saying "It's what she'd want.", indicating they never asked her about the surgery.

Even if it's for a good cause, killing a patient without informed consent is still immoral and justifies lethal force in the defence of that patient.
Both sides have there cases. I probably would of done what Joel done and saved my family member or loved one too, but doesnt mean its the right thing to do overall.
Yeah that would be murder. But the TLOU world is kinda society-less lol
Well, do things like theft, murder, rape stop being wrong because society fell? 👀

I like moral ambiguity in my stories but when reviewing the facts of the matter that went down at the hospital, IMO the Fireflies mishandled the situation to the point they can be considered villains.
 

Ryu Kaiba

Member
I think in a few years there will be a lot of posts from people saying I replayed "The last of us 2 and I was wrong" or "I finally played the game why did everyone hate this?"
Then in like 2030 People will be hungry for more and Sony will present a trailer for Part III to mass applause.

I mean the fact that the game is still evoking these types of responses from people means they felt something powerful, which is more than we can say about most games we get these days.
 

Warablo

Member
I feel like half the people that don't like TLOU2 don't like long story games in general, the story is a good slow burn. Nothing wrong with the pacing.

It's like me trying to play a turn based rpg game, I don't like them but I don't play one and then proceed to tell everyone how boring it is.

I didn't think TLOU2 was long at all.. I'm not even sure how people even expected anything different.
Not really you play half the game to get to this climax, then it flashes back and forces you to play it again. You even get flashbacks within flashbacks.
 

Ryu Kaiba

Member
Usually when one claims to dislike a game, especially one that they feel is bloated..

... they STOP playing the game.

That's one of the things that makes me feel like most of the hatred is coming from immaturity. The fact that everyone finishes or plays something they hate so much, even multiple times.
 

Alphagear

Member
Usually when one claims to dislike a game, especially one that they feel is bloated..

... they STOP playing the game.

That's one of the things that makes me feel like most of the hatred is coming from immaturity. The fact that everyone finishes or plays something they hate so much, even multiple times.


So you believe it wasn't bloated?

Walking through museums, Forests, Aquariums, playing the guitar and even herding sheep back to the barn added to the experience?

I mean you had 2 campaigns plus a finale. Was all that needed?
 

Ryu Kaiba

Member
So you believe it wasn't bloated?

Walking through museums, Forests, Aquariums, playing the guitar and even herding sheep back to the barn added to the experience?

I mean you had 2 campaigns plus a finale. Was all that needed?
It was longer than I expected but I can't complain about gameplay with that level of quality, coming with a lot of content. Ideally, that's what we want is it not?

Also I'm not the type of gamer that thinks the game needs to be all action and no slow parts. I enjoyed slower sections like the museum and aquarium at least on a 1st playthrough. I sometimes make moments like that in games that don't have them.
 

Dark Star

Member
I really enjoyed the gameplay, graphics, enemy AI, etc. It's all really smooth and definitely cutting edge for Naughty Dog. Going prone and being able to stealth and sneak around is something I really enjoy in these games. I started a second playthrough on a harder difficulty and it's pretty brutal trying to manage your limited inventory/ammo and getting through swarms of clickers. TLOU 2 does a lot of things right.

But yeah, not a huge fan of the overall story or Abby or really any of the characters besides Ellie and Joel. I don't think Naughty Dog was "wrong" to go the direction they went, but they could have dialed back some of the boring stuff like exploring areas such as the aquarium or being forced to play guitar, and useless side character development that nobody asked for or cared for.
 
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DForce

Member
So you believe it wasn't bloated?

Walking through museums, Forests, Aquariums, playing the guitar and even herding sheep back to the barn added to the experience?

I mean you had 2 campaigns plus a finale. Was all that needed?

I don't know too many 30+ hour games that only invovles action.

Final Fantasy X is one of my favorite games, and you have to play Blitz Ball once, go through many Cloister Of Trialsm, deal with whole Seymour and Yuna marriage thing in Guadosalam etc.

Nearly every moment has a purpose because it tells a story. Those moments in FFX are not likey by many people just like the TOU 2 moments. Don't think its bloated unless it pushes the story forward.
 

Fare thee well

Neophyte
Be safe bro. People gonna spam the report button on you like no end.
Wait people actually report you if you didn't enjoy this game? I just had to look to see where the report button even was because I never need to use it. That's kinda sad...
 
Wtf I cannot understand how can anyone have this harsh opinion on it.
the game is like an empathy test. You can fast see who is stubborn and jaded.
IMO the game is a masterpiece. Graphics, gameplay, story and characters.
funny thing is, I kinda hated half of it but I let go and the game won me over big time.
like it teaches a lesson….

The game is slow and serious. It’s just not for everyone

this is the best review.
“you might have won the game but you lost the game with yourself”
Really sick of seeing people act like TLOU2 is the only thing in the world that can determine if people "get empathy". As though if you don't connect with the sloppily handled writing, then you're an unemotional robot who can't understand the emotion. I just think they did a bad job with that aspect of the game. I've felt plenty of empathy during other games, just not TLOU2. It's no "empathy test".
 
I feel like half the people that don't like TLOU2 don't like long story games in general, the story is a good slow burn. Nothing wrong with the pacing.

It's like me trying to play a turn based rpg game, I don't like them but I don't play one and then proceed to tell everyone how boring it is.

I didn't think TLOU2 was long at all.. I'm not even sure how people even expected anything different.
I play a ton of "long story games", but I didn't enjoy Pt2, and it's all because of the pacing and laughable writing choices. Has nothing to do with the type of game it is.
 

Fake

Member
Wait people actually report you if you didn't enjoy this game? I just had to look to see where the report button even was because I never need to use it. That's kinda sad...

ADM already answer that on the 'suicide account thread'. Looks like some users indeed spam report button over people who talk bad about TLOUS2.
 
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Humdinger

Member
I don't have any desire to play the game -- it sounds miserable and heavy-handed -- but I do enjoy reading the discussions. The game sure is polarizing. I suppose Druckman tells himself that all the controversy is proof that he is an Artiste.
 

Majormaxxx

Member
I don't get the whole deal about about fans being treated like this. Everybody has the right to their opinion but I don't get people expecting a Disney ending in TLOU of all things. It was always a dark, arthouse style kind of storytelling.
From a certain point of view TLOU1 had a Disney ending. I know it apparently isn't a popular opinion. But the protagonist and his "daughter" were saved. I don't know how someone is expected to sacrifice someone they view as their child for the good of others - be it 1 other person or 1 million other people.
 

rofif

Gold Member
Really sick of seeing people act like TLOU2 is the only thing in the world that can determine if people "get empathy". As though if you don't connect with the sloppily handled writing, then you're an unemotional robot who can't understand the emotion. I just think they did a bad job with that aspect of the game. I've felt plenty of empathy during other games, just not TLOU2. It's no "empathy test".
And I am really sick of people telling me how it's a bad game and how the writing is somehow terrible...
The whole "writing" thing is really getting out of hand. What does it even mean
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Really sick of seeing people act like TLOU2 is the only thing in the world that can determine if people "get empathy". As though if you don't connect with the sloppily handled writing, then you're an unemotional robot who can't understand the emotion. I just think they did a bad job with that aspect of the game. I've felt plenty of empathy during other games, just not TLOU2. It's no "empathy test".

This. Times ten. I, and many others, could obviously see the angle Druckman was going with the plot. We don't need the enlightened few to beat us over the head with the "You don't get it, you fell right into the trap," stick. It was obvious with the substantial switch over to Abby's perspective that the player was supposed to walk a mile in her shoes and see what was initially (and in most games, only) portrayed as a black and white scenario in shades of grey.

Where it fails is pacing, narrative structure, and giving these very key themes to the plot a chance to breathe. Let's go over this:

1. Pacing

This game has two mandatory campaigns, and both are absolute SLOGS until the middle portions. Too many Telltale walking simulator scenarios and a little too much free roam through wide linear areas with nothing along the lines of environmental puzzles or combat. Lots of mash button to pick up a piece of cloth or a bottle type stuff.

2. Narrative Structure

Could also fit in with pacing. I don't know who decided to have one campaign, nice and slow build, chop off right before the climax, second campaign, largely unrelated to first, entirely separate, unattached climax in different place, at different time. All three "stories," worked well enough in a vacuum, but slammed together (and I say that quite intentionally, slammed, not woven) into one narrative harmed all three. Easiest solution is one that's parroted a lot, but how about Ellie chapter 1, Abby chapter 1, Ellie chapter 2, etc, etc? It keeps both characters and their motivations fresh and relevant in the players' mind, keeps the characters and settings interesting, and allows for the theatre climax to occur as the natural climax for both.

3. Managing themes

Giving Abby one flashback scene in the middle of the story to justify her decision may work, to some. Giving her one scene to justify her decision and to validate spending the second half of the game with her is a tougher sale. This isn't crying about Abby, indeed, I thought her section was much more compelling froma game design standpoint than Ellie's first and largest segment. But as a narrative decision, I think it falls flat because of the amount of time we've been given with Joel and Ellie FAR surpasses that one scene with Abby. This could have been remedied by giving her some pathos regarding everything being the same after her Jackson trio, that revenge was hollow, etc, and having her deal with some of that fallout, but instead, we get some lines from the characters equaling "yeah, that happened, haha," and all of her character development from that point on is based on Lev.

Lev's story was interesting, and the foil it provided for Abby was a classic "civilized man realizes the savages are humans, too," angle and completely worked as far as breaking her from her insular way of life, but it felt like a filler arc in the context of the main story to me. In a laser focused narrative with dual protagonists, every decision and action by Ellie should affect Abby as much as it does for Abby to Ellie. If that was the angle they were going for, they needed to go all in, and tie these two characters together TIGHTLY. The story that was told in Abby's campaign was one worthy of hearing, but I might have preferred it in a hypothetical Part III, an entire game centered around allegiances, perspectives, toxic dogma, etc. Here, it felt more like a buffet of ideas, with the guest stuffing too many different flavors on their plate to really appreciate the nuance of any one of them. Yeah, you leave full, but it hurts your retention for the individual dishes.
 
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