i've finished the tomb raider games. have replayed the first one and will replay the second
i have finished and (platined) the first two uncharted .i had hard time finishing uc3....i 'm half througth uc4 (i think) and haven't touch it in a week.
i've tried to replay the collection before uc4 but stopped at 3/4 of the first game.
the uncharted fatigue is here for me
i hope i'll find have the will to end to last one sometime soon.
did you just mention a Ubisoft game in an unflattering light?
He's coming for you
on topic though, AC has always been about momentum than traversal, if you are chasing or being chased, what is the fastest route from point A to B..
UC is more about traversal, as often there is no other way across a chasm or obstacle
I found TR2013 to be a completely forgettable romp with zero memorable moments. New Lara has the personality of a piece of wood and the rather entertaining combat was it's only saving grace. It's a frankenstein game that's little more than a mediocre amalgamation of popular ideas gathered from other popular AAA games and it shows. It brought nothing new to the table.
I feel U4 unequivocally trumped this game on all fronts. Gameplay, story, characters, visuals, animations, environments, everything. Uncharted 4 feels like an actual globe-spanning adventure instead of just a vessel for modestly entertaining third-person combat which I feel TR2013 was. TR2013 felt shallow, derivative and predictable every step of the way.
I might give ROTTR a shot once it goes to bargain bin prices on PC. But my experience with TR2013 made my interest in the franchise plummet to an all-time low.
It's like you never played an Uncharted game... that is the Crashing difficulty (good or bad that it is for that), and these are the "gags"... I knew that rock would fuck up something, but I was ok with that... still it would be ok if possible to avoid that, but isn't it funny to see nathan say "no no no" everytime trying to keep cool?
The Last of Us is more "open" than Uncharted games in terms of gameplay, and hopefully TLOU2 will be even better. It's just a different kind of manage gameplay. If you would be able to skip most of the "no no no" situations in UC, the game would be so boring...
But they could have let you avoid it, and then maybe while you're driving up Sully could quip about how he thought you were going to bring the rock tumbling down on him so it acknowledges that you did something. Or better yet, go back to the Sierra school of game design, where even if you see the imminent death, you do it once just to see how hilarious it is, and instead of NO NO NO, you get NO NO NO plus falling to your death. And then you do the non-idiotic think of not bringing a boulder crashing down on your Jeep. I think that would be less boring.
I played U4 on Crushing, and that might be partially my mistake, but at this point I expect games to get better on higher difficulties. To demand mastery of all the mechanics present in the game. Instead of mastering melee, rope swinging, but sliding, and shrub crouch-walking, it reduced it to the most tedious hide behind cover and run to different cover when you get flanked gameplay possible. I guess you had to make good use of grenades. That was about it.
Want to use different weapons? Too bad, the rarer ones don't drop enough ammo, so shoot them in place and pick up your old standard weapon. 30 rounds of Para ammo is too precious for you to consider leaving behind. Sorry. Want to use the big fat chaingun the huge asshole dropped after you finally killed him? Too bad, you'll move too slow, your aim speed will be too slow, and you won't be able to use cover at all so you'll die in two seconds.
Want to rope swing at someone or melee them? Well they better be the last fucking guy in the encounter because you're going to get killed during the animation otherwise. Especially if the game decides to throw you in a 'mash triangle to escape' situation, where you'll be shot dead halfway through the meter filling up.
I could have played it on an easier setting, and had a bit more fun tarzaning around. But then the whole game would have been stupidly easy, and thus still unsatisfying to me.
The autoplatforming nature of U4 is digusting at this point. Mash X along the cliff handhold path... occasionally hear Nate go NO NO NO as it crumbles and he grabs something else. *yawn*. Even the rope is little more than a quicktime event. You don't even have to find or aim at the damn things, you'll be sliding to your doom and you just have to mash L1 when the prompt appears. God forbid you have to find something to rope onto yourself and execute a maneuver with timing and precision.
I remember when I gave up on the gameplay in U4. It's during the great Madgascar jeep-a-thon, where you learn about the winch. I went up the stairs on a later winch point, went to tie it around the tree, noticed that it was caught on a rock, and tried to lead the rope so it wouldn't be. Tried to mantle over the rock, tried to go back around in front of it. Nope. Won't let you... then you get back in the Jeep and look at that... the rock knocks the Jeep off the cliff and you have to NO NO NO climb back into the seat and drive back up the cliff. What a pile of shit. God forbid you let me exercise my monkey brain a little and avoid the all important NO NO NO event.
So at least TR2013 feels like you're playing a video game. 60fps fun mouse+keyboard combat on PC, fun traversal. I didn't recall hating the story, even if it wasn't as fun and lighthearted as that wacky Nathan Drake National Treasure crew. Uncharted is great technical skill and voice/writing talent wasted on a hollow game design.
Hell, when it comes to a shooting, punching, and driving adventure game, from a gameplay perspective I don't even know if U4 stacks up to:
Seems like you like Mechanics-centric games more than you like Spectacle-centric ones, which is fine, but I think a few key things in your post that just straight up aren't quite right.
First comes in the assumption of higher difficulties being proportional to a better experience isn't true in many many games. I've seen many say that Survivor difficulty in TLoU is the way to play the game, but that Grounded is just too much. I've definitely played my fair share of games where Normal or Hard gave me the best experience where as the higher difficulty level gave me headaches and pain (recent-ish example being BFBC2).
The way I see it, Uncharted's Crushing difficulties are a "right on the tin" sort of thing. Its Crushing, not fun. Its basically meant to be annoying (or so I've heard, I have never bothered with it myself.) What I'm getting at here is that its fine to want higher challenges and to want a better experiences because of it, but many times you'll find that the better experience actually comes when the difficulty is kicked down a notch or 2.
As for the platforming, I'm kind of surprised that people haven't clued in on why it is the way it has been this entire series...
Its a (more interesting) hallway. That's the whole point. To get from one point to another, sometimes in time with a set-piece. Uncharted's platforming isn't some high-ly mechanics heavy climb-o-thon, its just you moving to the next section. I find it fine that way. Personally, rather enjoyable. Some might not, but that's on them I guess. I'm also guessing that your confusing "Hollow game-design" with "Hollow mechanics-design" which, if that was what you are meaning, I can understand. Especially if you are looking for something rather deep and juicy out of the mechanics. The actual game design of the Uncharted series (for the most part) has been solid, I'd say.
I also have issue with the use of "feels like your playing a video game" since that is almost always a limiting statement on what "games" can be, but whatever.
Though, To be honest, i haven't picked up U4 yet. Played 2 and 3 and loved them for what they are.
And even then, TR2013 is very lackluster and dreary when compared to older TR titles, which had much more diverse and colorful environments, and actual proper puzzles, both environment-based ones, and those of the switch-throwy persuasion.
I'd say Underworld and Anniversary are the best TR games, and they're both better GAMEPLAY-WISE than any Uncharted game, but that's just, like, my opinion man.
The problem with TR, even when compared to old Uncharted games as well as the new one, that it's not memorable, maybe it did X or Y better than Uncharted but what does it worth if nothing really stick with you?
That's the reason why Uncharted now has so many fans and it's bigger than TR, people are passionate for Uncharted, they care about the series, the characters, they remember the set pieces and the quiet moments as well (like Nepal village in U2, just a small section when Drake roams around with no combat and it's more memorable than anything in TR).
I enjoyed TR 2013 very much while I played it but it was pretty forgettable, it never challenged the GOTY awards, cause no one can really say it was more than a fun and a forgettable ride.
I liked Tomb Raider Reboot, but it isn't better than Uncharted 4. ROTR is one of my biggest gaming let downs of all time along with Darksiders 2. I like the originals way more than I thought I would only to be hyped then disappointed by the sequel.
ROTR's combat is Uncharted 1 level ordinary and what was good exploration is belittled by having too much shit to collect. Did I mention the dialogue was worse than the original game?
Uncharted 4 is my favourite game in the series but I don't think it holds a candle to Uncharted 2 as a game.
I enjoyed my time with the former but it's pacing issues can't be ignored.
The game starts halfway through the story (like Uncharted 2), then jumps back in time to when Nate's a kid, then forward in time to when we see the brothers get separated, then we jump forward in time again, then we go back in time once more before starting the adventure proper.
The beginning is an absolute mess and
it doesn't help that you spend half the game in the same location.
There's far too many down moments and it's non-combat systems just aren't deep enough to warrant the screen time they get in Uncharted 4.
I don't want more combat, I want what I'm doing outside the gunfights to be more exciting.
Exploration isn't rewarded either with useless trinkets and empty environments littered throughout.
As an experience, as a send off to one of my favourite characters in gaming, Uncharted 4 left me totally satisfied.
But it's a shallow game and when you don't nail pacing, like Uncharted 2 did, it becomes more and more apparent the longer you play.
The Last of Us is the true successor to the original Uncharted trilogy, it combines the cinematic storytelling that the latter traded on, with deeper, more complex systems Uncharted was never built to have.
You can have feature-rich gameplay with enthralling characters - Metal Gear Solid proved that almost two decades ago.
Uncharted has always relied heavily on the latter but it usually masked it's puddle-deep systems with inventive scenarios, incredible set pieces and a winning personality - and again, it's pacing.
Uncharted 4 doesn't do as good a job of building and maintaining that status quo as Uncharted 2 (or even Uncharted 3 which it heavily riffs off).
As for the Tomb Raider franchise. I adored 2013 and was left slightly cold by Rise of the Tomb Raider (even if it improved on the original in almost every conceivable way).
Tomb Raider has always had better gunplay and it's metroidvania-esque design has always appealed to me more. You're also rewarded for exploring with materials to scavenge, tombs to indulge in and new gear to find.
It's undoubtedly a more varied experience as a result. They are also stunning to look at - Rise of the Tomb Raider is gorgeous.
What you prefer will depend on what you're looking for out of a game - I'm happy they both exist and appreciate what they are - but I hope people look at Uncharted 4 and learn.
Not just from its outstanding tech and character work but from its clunky pacing and barebones systems.
Edit: Just to address the post beneath me. The writing is worse. I wasn't bothered by it in the reboot but the writing in Rise of the Tomb Raider is horrendous.
It's combat is undoubtedly better though, there's loads more options.
I liked Tomb Raider Reboot, but it isn't better than Uncharted 4. ROTR is one of my biggest gaming let downs of all time along with Darksiders 2. I like the originals way more than I thought I would only to be hyped then disappointed by the sequel.
ROTR's combat is Uncharted 1 level ordinary and what was good exploration is belittled by having too much shit to collect. Did I mention the dialogue was worse than the original game?
I liked TR2013 but no, they're not even comparable, I don't know why people keep bringing this up. Uncharted was never aiming for the same kind of game that Tomb Raider is was. If anything, Crystal Dynamics clearly went for an Uncharted approach but focused more on the gameplay than the story (such a garbage story and characters, by the way). Naughty Dog never wanted "gameplay depth", they wanted accesible yet satisfying gameplay as a vehicle for their awesome storytelling and setpieces and they more than succeeded at it.
It's not like they can't make the kind of gameplay of TR2013 (TloU exists after all, and it has impeccable, "deep" gameplay), it's that they aren't going for that, as they proved when Uncharted 4 didn't bring in any new feature like upgrading of crafting because it just doesn't fit with the nature of the games.
Uncharted goes for a much more linear experience focused on the story and the characters, that's why it doesn't have the player leveling up or collecting stuff around the map to upgrade their weapons or gear.
Uncharted and Tomb Raider are different games with different goals in mind, get over it already.
Oh and the fact that there's so much shit to collect in TR2013 (haven't played Rise) and you can basically spot it with the x-ray vision defeats the purpose of collectables. I'd rather find journal entries and Nate's drawing than "scavenge" useless rubbish to gain XP or upgrade shit. It seems like you don't remember the original Tomb Raider games having the exact same kind of collectables as Uncharted, and not the overbloated, Ubi-like TR reboot.
And btw, combat in Uncharted is miles better than TReboot, especially 4's. The level design for the encounters in U4 and most of U2 - 3 is just in a different league, not to mention the controls and mechanics in 4 are probably the best ever made for a TPS. The only thing keeping the TR combat away from being complete crap is the bow.
I liked TR2013 but no, they're not even comparable, I don't know why people keep bringing this up. Uncharted was never aiming for the same kind of game that Tomb Raider is was. If anything, Crystal Dynamics clearly went for an Uncharted approach but focused more on the gameplay than the story (such a garbage story and characters, by the way). Naughty Dog never wanted "gameplay depth", they wanted accesible yet satisfying gameplay as a vehicle for their awesome storytelling and setpieces and they more than succeeded at it.
It's not like they can't make the kind of gameplay of TR2013 (TloU exists after all, and it has impeccable, "deep" gameplay), it's that they aren't going for that, as they proved when Uncharted 4 didn't bring in any new feature like upgrading of crafting because it just doesn't fit with the nature of the games.
Uncharted goes for a much more linear experience focused on the story and the characters, that's why it doesn't have the player leveling up or collecting stuff around the map to upgrade their weapons or gear.
Uncharted and Tomb Raider are different games with different goals in mind, get over it already.
Oh and the fact that there's so much shit to collect in TR2013 (haven't played Rise) and you can basically spot it with the x-ray vision defeats the purpose of collectables. I'd rather find journal entries and Nate's drawing than useless items. It seems like you don't remember the original Tomb Raider games having the exact same kind of collectables as Uncharted, and not the overbloated, Ubi-like TR reboot.
How I felt on TR:
2013 gets shit on by lots of people for being linear and having a bad story, these same people never bothered to explore, the exploration mechanics and the large open areas of the game are FANTASTIC, there's so much freedom in getting around and it's not just guided "hey lara is reaching her hand out that direction" garbage. ROTR expands on this, the very best aspect of the first game, by giving you actual reasons to do this beyond just completionism, and now people try to say it's got 'collectathon garbage' - no, I'm sorry, the first game had collectathon garbage, the second game has actual meaningful upgrade systems that encourage you to explore every nook and cranny. You certainly don't have to, so if you think that's trahs then don't do it, the main thrust of the game never stops being linear, you have to force yourself to take a breather and explore ("HEY URGENT THING IS HAPPENING" but then you just go 'nah I'ma get osme crafting mats and see what's up this cliff).
As far as the input lag, grasping at straws. One version of the game has it, it's barely noticeable, no reason to think the PS4 version will, so why bring it up when this is about the design of the games. Sorry that UC4 isn't as good, your life will be ok. The games are VERY different and can both be good games. UC is extremely cinematic and has entertaining writing, but the actual gameplay has never been anything to write home about. UC4 leans on that, while TR2013/ROTR have the opposite stance, they're somewhat cinematic in as much as any game is today, but they rely on the gameplay to make up for the weaker storylines (which are still totally serviceable adventure nonsense, just more self serious and less 'fun').
I think the current Tomb Raider series (2013 and Rise) are better games than the Uncharted series. There are several reasons, but overall I just find them to be way more fun.
Rise of the TR is definitely a better game than UC4 for me. Visuals aside, TR has better exploration, platforming, and combat. its also filled with side activities and collectibles, and I just really enjoyed the "open-world" type maps.
UC4 is extremely linear, as all the uncharted games are which is fine. However as OP stated, exploration in UC4 is sort of lifeless, with the only payoff in most instances being the amazing visuals. The lengthy platforming/climbing sections, while beautifully done, were at times boring as well.
I haven't played TR 2013, but I think I left my experiences playing UC4 and Rise of the Tomb Raider feeling similarly about those two games.
I do think Uncharted 4 is the better experience. Absolutely. When it's at its best it is better, and when the gameplay and storytelling are in harmony, it's fantastic. But I spent so much time in that game uninterested in what I was doing. Outside of virtual sight-seeing there are long sections of the game that feel meaningless. They don't have exposition, they aren't serving as a downbeat moment to bridge combat. It's just you, 'exploring'.
Whereas in Tomb Raider I travel off the beaten path and find an optional tomb. With stealth I have not only the option of silent takedowns, but using a bow to take down a ranged enemy silently, or distracting enemies, or setting up traps. With the piton-like mechanic I can also fire a bow into the appropriate walls to make handholds for traversal. What it lacks in polish Tomb Raider makes up for in mechanical depth - your interaction feels less superficial, even if not by a great deal.
After walking around levels, panning the camera like I'm conducting an E3 demo, I did want to feel engaged with UC4 as an experience more that holding the left stick in a direction and tapping X while the characters banter with one-another. And I felt like, depite similar lengths, ROTR had less of that.
I found Tomb Raider to be this endlessly dull experience, I didn't at any point care what was happening in the world, so basically from start to finish I was waiting for it to end. The gameplay wasn't superior enough to the uncharted games to make up for it being deficient in every other area.
Yes they look very pretty in UC4, but we're not all three of those games have much more satisfying traversal mechanics than UC4 while also looking incredibly pretty. In a gen where open world games are incredibly comparable to linear games in terms of animation quality the latter can't get away as easily with just looking pretty while the player mashes X. There's a plenty lengthy post on that page explaining how and why those systems are more satisfying and that was without even touching on the complexity of ME.
Yes they look very pretty in UC4, but we're not all three of those games have much more satisfying traversal mechanics than UC4 while also looking incredibly pretty. In a gen where open world games are incredibly comparable to linear games in terms of animation quality the latter can't get away as easily with just looking pretty while the player mashes X. There's a plenty lengthy post on that page explaining how and why those systems are more satisfying and that was without even touching on the complexity of ME.
Couldn't agree more, OP.
Reading threads on Uncharted I always feel people get really easily blinded by all the technical glitz and graphical marvel (mind you, though UC4 might be technically superior RotTR is no slouch either in that department and certainly is a stunningly beautiful and carefully crafted looking game).
People get so lost in their Naughty Dog hype and seemingly never tire ruminating those magic 2 words "Naughty Gods" in every reveal or review thread. What a lot of them don't take into account is how UC's gameplay just doesn't hold up. Not the shooting and melee encounters, and especially not the exploration and traversal bits. Tomb Raider, since its reboot, takes a massive dump on UC's gameplay, which the OP elaborates on successfully, so I'm not going to regurgitate their points.
Anyway, while I tremendously enjoyed UC4's writing, attention to detail and magnificently crafted worlds, RotTR has absolutely been a much more well-rounded experience, with its individual parts more successfully modulated to ultimately form the better game of the two.
You can mash X the same way you mash X in the rest of the moments. Funnily enough parts of the clock tower are actually designed with mashing X in mind with the cogs. It's not difficult at all. It's more interesting than constantly climbing white painted rocks though.
Lets face it, the first couple of hours of TR2013 were good, just long enough for people to go on places like NeoGAF and make threads about how amazing it was.
The rest of the game was one long killing spree through the most tedious and insulting environments you will find outside of an assassins creed game. The dip in quality the longer you play would make MGS5 blush.
Overall, despite the good start, the game is garbage.
Now I haven't played UC4 yet, so maybe that is too. But lets not pretend TR2013 was in any way some sort of brilliant adventure outside of some "kind of cool" hair effects.
You can mash X the same way you mash X in the rest of the moments. Funnily enough parts of the clock tower are actually designed with mashing X in mind with the cogs. It's not difficult at all. It's more interesting than constantly climbing white painted rocks though.
You must have a lot of practice with games that involves a lot climbing then, because I died a couple times ascending that clock tower. Certainly "mashing" X didn't work out for me.
Secondly, the game is stunning, and it shits on TR13 visually and presentation wise. But those gifs don't really sell the combat well. I played on hard and if you dangled on the rope that long you are fucked. It's cool but it lacks the variety of TRs combat. The AI allys constantly moving around and not getting caught just takes me out of UCs combat at times.
For all the heavy attention to detail praise UC gets, it's really jarring to see your the NPCs not do shit and brush off an enemy and not get detected. It's also worth noting that before UC4 the stealth in UC was terrible. I need to go back and play TR13 because it's been a while, but I think it'll hold up better than UCs combat overall. Holy shit at UC4s melee combat, best contextual melee system ever. I barely ever saw the same things twice.
Oh man, for me it's not even a contest - Uncharted 4 wiped the everloving floor with Tomb Raider. I used to say that the one way Tomb Raider 2013 surpassed any Uncharted game was in its combat and gunplay, but after 4 I can't even give it that honour anymore.
In 2013 I said how the gameplay is much better than Uncharted. The only thing that lets TR 2013 down is the poor to non existent characters, story and overall quality of this side. Gameplay mechanics and various scenarios are superior. Not surprising even after U4 people feel this way but I haven't played 4. it's said to have expanded greatly. I'm looking at 1-3.
Uncharted has a great dynamic of characters though, there was lots of potential from day 1, its one of the best if not the best technically executed set of characters and dialogue for a video game, it was a clever decision to base your game around this. From what I've seen of UC4, it's raised the bar even higher and seems to be what many reviewers have highlighted.
TR is a totally banal origin story told in a serious way that has nothing to draw from, it's very limited Lara survival story but the gameplay makes up for it. As much as I have liked or loved Uncharted, the shooting gets tiresome.
I got tomb raider 2013 for PS4 a week before U4 came out as part of the summer sale on PSN. I played it a bit and moved onto U4. The entire time I was playing U4, I found myself wanting to "get it over with", mainly because it just seemed like a shallow, but beautiful, roller coaster ride. I have some of the same comments about exploration and rewards as you, I feel you articulated them better. I whole-heartedly agree, tomb raider is the better game, and I hope Rise sees a release on PS4 soon.
TR2013 is a great game, but it lends a lot of elements of Uncharted. Most of the setpieces feel cheap, Uncharted 1 was cheezy, but god damn TR2013 made me cringe.
I never skip cutscenes, but I really wanted to in TR.
Exploration is open yes, but here's where U4 wins. I has zero backtracking, yet it lends TR's open spaces, giving the player just as many choices as in TR, but without the backtracking.
I liked both series a lot, but the big difference between them for me is, I look back fondly at the Uncharted games, remembering key moments with the characters and some amazing set-pieces, whereas I only ever remember the bow and how bad all the characters (that I can remember, which at the moment are Donut Drake, the Asian girl, that guy who dies on the boat and Lara) are in TR. I don't think the combat is all that good in either (except for Uncharted 4, but it's so spread out in that game I'd never recommend it for it), the way you traverse isn't anything amazing either, Uncharted is close to being automatic and TR's is floaty and can be almost as automatic.
I enjoyed the TR games but for me UC4 trumps them on pretty much all aspects.
I get that it's not for everyone but the fact that something like UC4's chapter 4 can exist in a huge AAA game in this day and age is a motive for celebration to me while TR, while fun, is desperately trying to have mass market appeal in everything it does.
The game pretty much relegates puzzles to optional tombs, doesn't dare to go without a gunfight for more than 10 minutes, even farting probably gives Lara the almighty XP and of course you spend the whole game collecting trash, because these are the things games do these days.
UC4 isn't afraid to go against all these trends, Neil himself said he realizes this kind of game design isn't for everyone but it definitely has a place for me and I commend them for doing it.
Not to mention that TR tries to go all dramatic with its story and fails spectacularly, to the point where its almost funny.
I did actually kind of like the first half of that fight, I had a little bit of a script for it, I had a shotgun, so the armor guys would get that, the no armor guys would get 3 para shots a piece, the very first dude would get jumped on, as you did. The snipers on the other side of the ship would get a couple of nades. The less I tried to melee rush or do rope tricks the better my odds were, that's for sure.
Then the aforementioned LMG and gas mask bullshit would happen, I'd spray down the gas mask guys with whatever I would find for primary, then dump my grenades on the LMG guys and try to pistol headshot them if they were still up but sans helmet.
The first time I cleared it that far I wanted to take a little victory lap and spray down the remaining normal enemies with the LMG. That's part of where my earlier complaining about the LMG in my big stupid long rant came from. Right when I grabbed it and started shooting Mrs Nathan Killjoy decides to hop in the middle of the screen blocking my ability to see the perfect accuracy douchebags in the distance, and instead of spraying them down I die and have to do the whole sequence another half dozen times at least.
I though new TR gameplay quite uninspired. Like nothing new about it. It is just dangerous boring game. Lara Croft Go is way better new Tomb Raider game.
I haven't chance with Uncharted but I just can't see it will be like TR.
TR and Bioshock Infinite are two of the most over rated games of 2013.
I played both off PS+ and was far from impressed.
TR in particular can't hold a candle to Uncharted 4 in terms of story, character development, gameplay and graphics.
It's actually quite a laughable game imo between all the torture porn and how Lara becomes a cold blooded killer in two seconds.
Edit: also new Lara sucks donkey balls. She has all the personality of a wet blanket.
The new Tomb Raider games are mediocre as hell, they just follow the boring AAA design template with no real thought put behind it. This template sells and apparently people like it as seen in this thread so we end up getting more and more boring/safe AAA games with no originality.
So why people shit on Uncharted 1 and 3 for having waves-based encounters while I don't see that pointed out for TR2013 which does that more frequently and in a worse way?
No way that Tomb Raider 2013 is doing combat better than Uncharted with melee being "broken" and having the bow as the only interesting weapon for gunplay
The new Tomb Raider games are mediocre as hell, they just follow the boring AAA design template with no real thought put behind it. This template sells and apparently people like it as seen in this thread so we end up getting more and more boring/safe AAA games with no originality.
It also launched on the same day as Fallout 4 IIRC. That and the staggered release for PC/PS4 hurt it I'm sure because the first sold well despite Square's unrealistic expectations.
