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LTTP LTTP - Zelda: Breath of the Wild more like breath of fresh air

kiiltz

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I actually haven't played an open world game in a long time now that I think about it. Does Nier count? (It doesn't). Oh wait there was RDR2 but I stopped playing that for some reason so let's just ignore that one.

Anyway this was fucking great tbh and I think it goes without saying that this is open world gameplay done right and without the sacrifice of story telling to boot. There's some vintage Bioware story set up here once you strip away everything except instead of recruiting friends you're um freeing them and letting their souls rest. Honestly, it's just a structure that's perfectly suited for games. But everything that's been layered on top is what really sells it. From the sheer size of the map to the intricate level designs of the smaller areas, what I really appreciated is how different the landscape could look depending on where you where. Often, I'd thought I discovered a new place only to realize I was only 50m off the mark and looking at different angle which only furthered my need to continue exploring ever nook and cranny of each dungeon, ravine, mountain or village. On the way to Zora's Domain, I felt like I had explored half the length of map only to realized I was still only relegated to one little area.

As you've probably guessed by now, I have by no means 100% completed the game and tbh I don't really care to. I could sink another 200 hours just exploring and discovering shrines or little fucking Korok's lying in random places. Or you know, just randomly stumbling upon a Lynel. So for that reason, I think BotW doesn't necessarily try to overwhelm you as far as completionism goes; it's more like they've fully captilized on the playground they've built and told me "Hey, go have fun". And it's not like there's much there in lieu of repetitiveness either, unless that is, you count finding a Water Buffalo or Mountain Goat atop a mountain it has no business being on.

But on that note, perhaps the lack of enemy variety does let down the game's humongous scale. Not counting reskins you could probably count all of them one hand, give or take a few fingers. That said, they do kind of fluff it by giving them the ability to use different types of weapons so it's not that much of chore provided you're not out constantly punishing Bokoblins so it's only a shame in comparison. The boss fights on the other hand are fucking G-R-8. Shield surfing on a SEAL that can SWIM in SAND? RIDING an anthropomorphic dolphin/lizard/whatever the fuck they are then SWIMING UP A WATERFALL? GLIDING THROUGH THE AIR DOING SOME LEGOLAS SHIT? Hold up let me get my reaction face.


The puzzles were fucking fun too. It wasn't like Braid where I was like "welp, maybe I should I wait a couple of hours and see if I stop being retarded". It was more like Portal where it's both engaging and rewarding and that does extend out to the Shrine puzzles too btw. Speaking of puzzles, the Korok seed puzzles are pretty cute. Can't count the amount of times I giggled after accidentally dropping a rock on their heads after discovering them. Like my coffee, they're short, sweet and to the point. That's actually not how I have my coffee jsyk.

Oh btw, freeing each of the Champions made me tear up something chronic. Doesn't help that I'm in the midst of the onset of a flu atm either. Mipha's story especially killed the man. Goddamn, I wanna play it again just for her, I hope that doesn't make me a furry.

OH YEAH how were you suppose to beat Ganon when he goes all glowy and shiny? After I realised my attacks weren't affecting him I literally just ran around for 15 or so mins waiting for Daruk's protection to refresh so I could reflect his laser beam back at him. It worked and I didn't die so shrug. If there was an easier way I did not find it.

Think I covered most the shit I wanted to say so I'll just skip to some negatories.
  • Outdated lock on. Think I mentioned this in another thread, The lock-on is actually pretty frustrating if the game pushes you with too many enemies or they're too fast. It felt a lot like Ocarina of Time. I wouldn't know if the in between Zelda games are same because I haven't played them :pie_invert:. Oh yeah, if you have the misfortune of playing in a tight area the camera seems to suffer from Souls Syndrome.
  • Horse riding sucks and also outdated. I actually never noticed this because I never ride a horse. I literally climb, glide or surf everywhere. Then I decided to get a shiny black co- horse, realized how horribly it controlled even with max bond, then promptly got abandoned in front of a Guardian Stalker and died. It sucks. It's a good thing there are shrines basically everywhere so you can just teleport then glide to where ever you want. Thankfully horse riding skill wasn't really a necessity in the last fight.
  • More harder enemies? Did mention this above somewhat. I mean, I pointedly avoided trash mobs when exploring but the big and scary's needed to be more varied I think. There's just the Lynel, Cyclops and Geodude. Oh there's the fish thing in Gerudo which was really cool. Maybe I'm forgetting some.

Pointless Addendums

>75 korok seeds
>"wow, I must be almost half way to finding them all"
>"There are a total of 900 Korok Seeds in Breath of the Wild"
>mfw



>get all 12 of Zelda's memories
>"wow, did it without google"
>"we heard you like pictures so now you have to take a picture of a picture to find yo picture"

Final Addendum

 
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Ulysses 31

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No complaints about weapon durability, or that the world is "empty"? Your opinion is invalid.

:lollipop_grinning:

I started again recently on Master Quest mode and still having a blast, looking forward to DLC I haven't played yet.
 
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V

Vader1

Unconfirmed Member
It’s probably my favorite open world game. The environments themselves are great, and it’s really cool to be able to climb everything or paraglide off of huge mountains. But it does have some issues for me when compared with other Zelda games. Those being the lack of dungeon/boss diversity, the lack of any real story or progression system, the repetitiveness of some things in the world, and not as much item/weapon or enemy diversity. I also felt the story and characters were lackluster/uninteresting even for Zelda standards.

For me, a lot of it was wandering around aimlessly without finding anything interesting. The environments themselves are the biggest reward. What I actually find in those environments is usually something I’ve seen before.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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The game is a masterpiece of design restraint and of fitting all the mechanics together. Less is more. I think some people begrudge the game for its restraint because they expected Elder Scrolls: Hyrule. However, the Zelda series was originally about refining and simplifying whatever trends were taking place in Western RPGs. This repeated until Ocarina, and then Nintendo just tried to refine and simplify Ocarina over and over again.

Instead of collecting weapons, you collect knowledge: knowledge of where items are located (refreshed with every Blood Moon), knowledge of food recipes that can greatly boost your stats, knowledge of enemy behavior, knowledge of the natural laws of the world, knowledge of the map itself.

The emphasis on knowledge and skill instead of raw stats and powerful equipment is the quintessential Zelda approach to game design, but Aonuma's ongoing obsession with one-solution puzzles diluted this original pure spirit.
 

iconmaster

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You're probably going to get a lot of haters shortly -- fans of later, more structured Zeldas who never wandered aimlessly across the first Zelda overworld.

It's one of the greatest games I've ever played. You could play with the physics for hours -- and some have. The wonder of it for me was the vast landscape with all its hidden mysteries. Encountering my first labyrinth was startling. They're not signposted. You just wander around and then you catch one out of the corner of your eye. Wait, is that what I think it is? Can I actually get there? And of course, you can.
 
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kiiltz

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No complaints about weapon durability, or that the world is "empty"? Your opinion is invalid.

:lollipop_grinning:
Valid points tbh but I never dwelled on them long bcus
1) I had too many fucking weapons for durability to ever be an issue with me
2) It's the fantasy version of a post-apocalyptic world. It's suppose to be empty?
 
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Soodanim

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Every time I see a thread like this I want to restart the game and see if it truly clicks. I finished it, and I understand it, but it never really clicked to the point where I could appreciate the game on its own terms because of the faults. Probably didn't help that I never got the dodge timings down. I can dodge my way through Dark Souls all day but BotW destroys me.

This will probably be the day I give it another go.
 

kiiltz

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You're probably going to get a lot of haters shortly -- fans of later, more structured Zeldas who never wandered aimlessly across the first Zelda overworld.

It's one of the greatest games I've ever played. You could play with the physics for hours -- and some have. The wonder of it for me was the vast landscape with all its hidden mysteries. Encountering my first labyrinth was startling. They're not signposted. You just wander around and then you catch one out of the corner of your eye. Wait, is that what I think it is? Can I actually get there? And of course, you can.
Yes, i've literally spent hours just exploiting the stamina bar to scale moutains and FUCK i forgot about the labyrinths. those were fucking cool as fuck. As DunDunDunpachi DunDunDunpachi said "The game is a masterpiece of design restraint and of fitting all the mechanics together." I was repeatedly impressed with not only how much they were able to put into the game but how they were able to use it. BotW threw down the gauntlet for all future open world games imo.
 
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kiiltz

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It’s seems it’s popular theses days to hate on BotW but I personally adored that game.
Really? What have the naysayers been saying? I'll fight each and every single one of them under the red rising sun.
 

checkcola

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Well, I'm playing it for the first time and am having a blast.

The art direction is something I really adore and I like the idea that I've actually be able to deal with overpowered enemies with some preparation. The other thing I'd say, the different locations is very cool, you can see all sorts of tragedy to the land at ruin locations. Coming in late, I also have managed to get ahold of some of the DLC gear that pays tribute to Zelda's past games I guess somewhat early. I definitely think this game is worthy of all the praise it got.
 
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Danjin44

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Really? What have the naysayers been saying? I'll fight each and every single one of them under the red rising sun.
The biggest complain I hear is why it doesn’t have same type of dungeon from past Zelda games and weapon breaking mechanics.
 

#Phonepunk#

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yeah BOTW is incredible. i've never been able to make it through a 3D Zelda because they have always been so hand holdy and linear. this game was just a massive world to explore. it brought me back to the NES days and the first TLOZ, the true roots of the series.

also for all the complaining about a lack of dungeons, Hyrule Castle itself is a masterpiece of traditional dungeon design, with lots of entrances and exits, side areas, etc.
 
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Danjin44

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One thing I like about BotW and same reason like about DQ series is that they can be incredibly immersive but at same time can absolutely very gamy which makes those games is really fun to actually play instead of pain in ass to even control them for sake of “immersion”
 

kiiltz

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The biggest complain I hear is why it doesn’t have same type of dungeon from past Zelda games and weapon breaking mechanics.
I might be out of place saying this since I haven't played the previous ones except for a few hours of OoT my childhood friend allowed me to play when he wasn't being a hog but aren't the shrines and the inside of the Divine Beasts basically that albeit smaller scale?

And yeah as I said to someone above idc about durability. I had 3 Knight's Shields walking into Hyrule Castle and host of weapons and bows. I was begging for them to be destroyed. That wasn't @ you btw, just a small elaboration.

also for all the complaining about a lack of dungeons, Hyrule Castle itself is a masterpiece of traditional dungeon design, with lots of entrances and exits, side areas, etc.
oic

All right, let's do this.

BotW is one of the bottom-tier Zelda games, along with Phantom Hourglass and Wind Waker.

 

DunDunDunpachi

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All right, let's do this.

BotW is one of the bottom-tier Zelda games, along with Phantom Hourglass and Wind Waker.
Hey! :messenger_angry:

Phantom Hourglass is one of the top-tier Zelda games for anyone who insists on Aonuma-style PuzZelda. The puzzles were the best exploitation of a system's hardware quirks since... well... it probably holds the #1 spot.

I'll admit, however, that I'm not the typical Zelda fan who grew up on OoT. The 3D games have all been okay-to-boring (to me) with the exception of Twilight Princess and now BotW.
 
V

Vader1

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also for all the complaining about a lack of dungeons, Hyrule Castle itself is a masterpiece of traditional dungeon design, with lots of entrances and exits, side areas, etc.

I was honesty meh on it, environmentally it just felt like a big grey castle. Not a lot of unique enemies either.

I might be out of place saying this since I haven't played the previous ones except for a few hours of OoT my childhood friend allowed me to play when he wasn't being a hog but aren't the shrines and the inside of the Divine Beasts basically that albeit smaller scale?

They are much smaller, but the main problem is that they’re all environmentally the same. All the divine beasts are this identical brown environment, and the shrines are all small blue rooms. Combined with the lack of unique enemies and bosses, they feel much less interesting than the more diverse dungeons of other games.
 

Ulysses 31

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Speaking of missing dungeons, Ninty missed a huge opportunity to create a Guardian Factory dungeon/area with humanoid and other kinds of experimental guardians... :lollipop_confounded:
 

V2Tommy

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Hey, it's not a race to see who can rack up the most incorrect opinions in one thread.

Wind Waker sucks for the same reasons BotW sucks: aimless wandering, too far between relevant locations, low map/object density. If you have to walk/boat for more than 10 seconds to get to anything, it's just too vast. Waiting is not a gameplay element. Original LoZ (the game people claim BotW is like) has 2-5 interactive things on every single screen.
 
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kiiltz

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They are much smaller, but the main problem is that they’re all environmentally the same. All the divine beasts are this identical brown environment, and the shrines are all small blue rooms. Combined with the lack of unique enemies and bosses, they feel much less interesting than the more diverse dungeons of other games.
So it's a visual complaint rather than anything to do with the actual mechanics? Let's pretend that "environmentally the same" is being used in a subjective manner here.
 

Paltheos

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The emphasis on knowledge and skill instead of raw stats and powerful equipment is the quintessential Zelda approach to game design, but Aonuma's ongoing obsession with one-solution puzzles diluted this original pure spirit.

To an extent. I love the hell out of Breath of the Wild, but in combat (for example), damage is calculated by simple addition/subtraction formulas leading to some crazy difficulty spikes and craters and dodging is wonky.

Allot about the game is messed up but I can still proudly slap a minimum 9 on it because of how much it does right.
 
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Kamina

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Really? What have the naysayers been saying? I'll fight each and every single one of them under the red rising sun.
“It’s so boring and empty“
“The breakable weapon system sucks“
“There are no real temples & shrines are boring“

Those are the main complaints. If you ask me, especially the first probably comes from people who aren’t open world fans but want linear stories or guided semi open world games.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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To an extent. I love the hell out of Breath of the Wild, but in combat (for example), damage is calculated by simple addition/subtraction formulas leading to some crazy difficulty spikes and craters and dodging is wonky.
You're never supposed to completely cancel out the danger of the overworld. This was true of old Zelda games and it's true in BotW. I understand the complaint about the breakable weapons and the damage scaling, but there were caps on the total possible damage dealt in the old Zelda games, too. You couldn't "farm" for damage upgrades, in other words.

BotW lets you exploit the system in a couple of ways (and let me tell ya, I love exploiting game systems. It's why I enjoy Disgaea)

- armor sets confer defense bonuses and special abilities when upgraded by the Giant Fairies. There's some very useful stuff other than the improved defense, like faster sneaking at night, better climbing stamina, and improved Ancient weapon damage
- stat-boosting recipes are essentially available from the moment you begin the game (as long as you know where to obtain the ingredients and make them). Having a full supply of meals handy makes battles much easier
- the physics and natural laws do a lot of damage, especially the Magnet. You can attract lightning with a metal box and/or slam it down on enemies. Rolling rocks and logs on to enemies does a lot of damage. I love setting up overcomplicated traps to try to "surprise attack" an enemy stronghold. It only works half the time, but the attempt is the fun part anyway.
- elemental weapons are overpowered. Half of my weapon slots are full of elemental weapons at all times. I can't get enough of them. Are you telling me you don't switch to a flame sword, set everyone on fire, and then switch back to your main weapon to land free hits? Are you telling me you don't use the lighting rod to electrocute enemies standing in shallow water?
- Bombs. I mean... lol infinite bombs. A free knockdown weapon that does respectable damage is given to you from the very start
- pretty much everything can be parried right from the start of the game.

I thought the combat is one of the best parts of the game. It has the expected Nintendo polish but gives you a lot more options, many of them available from the beginning.

EDIT: oh, I forgot the most exploitable part of the combat, silly me: slow-motion archery plus headshots. Even with basic arrows, you can sail through almost any battle with a few headshots and some abusive hits while they're downed.
 
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kiiltz

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EDIT: oh, I forgot the most exploitable part of the combat, silly me: slow-motion archery plus headshots. Even with basic arrows, you can sail through almost any battle with a few headshots and some abusive hits while they're downed.
Elemental arrows are crazy fun.

Steamrolled through Hyrule Castle simply because I had stocked on them all game. Only reserved the Ancient arrows for flying guardians since I was pretty low on them. All the ground ones I would electrocute then bully them with a melee, rinse repeat.

Never though of using a metal box to attract lightning though. I'd just drop a shield then run. The elemental mechanics in this game are actually pretty amazing. Still sweating from the time I almost killed myself by drawing a bomb arrow on Death Mountain.
 
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Vader1

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So it's a visual complaint rather than anything to do with the actual mechanics? Let's pretend that "environmentally the same" is being used in a subjective manner here.

Yes, the big downside to me is how bland the environments are, and that they all feel the same. Mechanically they’re fine, if on the small and easy side. But a big part of why I look forward to the next dungeon in Zelda is what it will be like, what the boss will be, etc. I never felt that way in BotW, because I already knew what it was going to be. Environments really are what create the immersion for me and BotW’s dungeons were seriously lacking in that area. The same feeling bosses make the problem even worse.
 
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kiiltz

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Yes, the big downside to me is how bland the environments are, and that they all feel the same. Mechanically they’re fine, if on the small and easy side. But a big part of why I look forward to the next dungeon in Zelda is what it will be like, what the boss will be, etc. Environments really are what create the immersion for me. The same feeling bosses make the problem even worse.
I can accept that. I never really thought about it myself since the mechanics are what's always gripped me from the beginning.

I do wish I didn't have to listen to that shitty fucking Shiekah theme everytime I did a shrine.
 
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I finished it. But I thought it was one of the most overrated games I've ever played. Just my opinion. Not a bad game, but not a 10/10.
 
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Paltheos

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You're never supposed to completely cancel out the danger of the overworld. This was true of old Zelda games and it's true in BotW. I understand the complaint about the breakable weapons and the damage scaling, but there were caps on the total possible damage dealt in the old Zelda games, too. You couldn't "farm" for damage upgrades, in other words.

BotW lets you exploit the system in a couple of ways (and let me tell ya, I love exploiting game systems. It's why I enjoy Disgaea)

- armor sets confer defense bonuses and special abilities when upgraded by the Giant Fairies. There's some very useful stuff other than the improved defense, like faster sneaking at night, better climbing stamina, and improved Ancient weapon damage
- stat-boosting recipes are essentially available from the moment you begin the game (as long as you know where to obtain the ingredients and make them). Having a full supply of meals handy makes battles much easier
- the physics and natural laws do a lot of damage, especially the Magnet. You can attract lightning with a metal box and/or slam it down on enemies. Rolling rocks and logs on to enemies does a lot of damage. I love setting up overcomplicated traps to try to "surprise attack" an enemy stronghold. It only works half the time, but the attempt is the fun part anyway.
- elemental weapons are overpowered. Half of my weapon slots are full of elemental weapons at all times. I can't get enough of them. Are you telling me you don't switch to a flame sword, set everyone on fire, and then switch back to your main weapon to land free hits? Are you telling me you don't use the lighting rod to electrocute enemies standing in shallow water?
- Bombs. I mean... lol infinite bombs. A free knockdown weapon that does respectable damage is given to you from the very start
- pretty much everything can be parried right from the start of the game.

I thought the combat is one of the best parts of the game. It has the expected Nintendo polish but gives you a lot more options, many of them available from the beginning.

EDIT: oh, I forgot the most exploitable part of the combat, silly me: slow-motion archery plus headshots. Even with basic arrows, you can sail through almost any battle with a few headshots and some abusive hits while they're downed.

??

You can cancel out the danger of the world. I said this too (spikes and craters) and it should be apparent if you've regularly upgraded your gear. Because the damage is calculated in such a simple manner, a few armor upgrades mid- to late-game can completely tank enemy damage.

My issue in particular is less that it tanks damage (and maybe that's just my preference) but that the transition is too sudden. It's not smoothed out. Also, the extremes are too big but again maybe that's me.
 
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I played it for a bit, but it never clicked for me. In theory, I should like it because it's a mix of Skyrim and Zelda but it just makes me want to play Skyrim instead.

I'll have to give it another shot sometime
 

Soodanim

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??

You can cancel out the danger of the world. I said this too (spikes and craters) and it should be apparent if you've regularly upgraded your gear. Because the damage is calculated in such a simple manner, a few armor upgrades mid- to late-game can completely tank enemy damage.

My issue in particular is less that it tanks damage (and maybe that's just my preference) but that the transition is too sudden. It's not smoothed out. Also, the extremes are too big but again maybe that's me.
I never bothered upgrading gear more than one or two levels because of the stupidly rare required items, but I'm sure it's lovely towards the end
 
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peter42O

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Quit BOTW after 22 hours. Played after The Witcher 3, Horizon Zero Dawn and AC Origins. All three games do everything that BOTW does but far better. The only positives I had with BOTW were the visuals/art style/weather effects and the shrines but everything was so meh to me. Bland, empty, dull and boring open world reminded me of MGS 5 which isn't a good thing. Story was average at best (made it up to the water kingdom), minimal voice acting, so sick of Link being a silent protagonist. Give him a fucking voice already. Same concept for 30 years - defeat Ganon, rescue Zelda, save Hyrule. Same shit every time. Gameplay and combat wasn't fun at all and if anything, was so old, outdated and obsolete. If it wasn't for the shrines, I wouldn't have even played for as long as I did.

Link's Awakening Remake on the other hand, im super hyped for.
 

Godzilla Emu

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Garbage Zelda game. Skryim blows it out of the water and Skyrim is eight years old.

Far out, really? I consider myself to be the world's biggest ES Oblivion/Bethesda fanboy, but I really love Zelda Breath of the Wild... even with all its faults (weapon degradation, for me). BotW is comfortably one of the three games that I know that I'll always think of when I think of this generation in favorable terms.

In what way did Skyrim impress you more than BotW did (or what ways did BotW disappoint you by comparison)?
 
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Gamernyc78

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Started it, stopped for months, then pushed my way to finish it. All in all imo it's a decent game but not my favorite open world game. Low variety of enemies, empty world, un memorable bosses/divine beasts and repetitive shrines kind of hampered it for me. I did love the openess of the open world though and the art style.
 
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Business

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Never been a massive Zelda fan and went in with low exectations. I even bought the game on physical format so I could sell it if I didn’t like it. Boy was I wrong, if not the best game I ever played it’s damn close. Runs circles around every other open world.
 

kiiltz

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I still don't get the "empty" complaints???

You wake up 100 years after a calamatous event; were people expecting bustling metropolises or something???
 
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