Ignatz Mouse
Banned
_dementia said:
I'm not a fan either... but I think that's how we're supposed to feel about him.
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Mad Men - Season 4 - Sundays on AMC
- Thread starter Cornballer
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I'm not a fan either... but I think that's how we're supposed to feel about him.
sixteen-bit
Member
I think it was something more like "I might be paid less, but I'm not a janitor."Wads said:
Doh... although, that scene did make me think. Is she a partner too? She was in the meeting with the partners (maybe as a note taker), but she was one of the originals that helped start it up.
edit - just watched again and the exact quote it:
"Although I am paid less, I am still not a janitor."
edit - just watched again and the exact quote it:
"Although I am paid less, I am still not a janitor."
Film critic Matt Zoller Seitz has been producing some of the best weekly Mad Men writing I've come across. I think they're worth adding to your weekly roundups, CB.
Here's this week's:
http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-arts/77467/mad-men-review-the-suitcase
Here's this week's:
http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-arts/77467/mad-men-review-the-suitcase
Cornballer
Member
Thanks, E. I keep on forgetting about The New Republic writeups.Eric WK said:
I'm not sure I agree with the Mulder/Scully comparison, but he's not the only one to mention it this week when trying to characterize Don and Peggy's relationship.
I think it fits well. For most of the X-Files run their relationship was platonic, they deeply cared for each other yet it never was sexual (until the later seasons, and then only slightly so). Their relationship was one of the best things about the X-Files and, at times, very touching. I definitely see shades of the same thing in Peggy/Don. They're also both couples that feel somewhat alone in their environments, like they can only trust each other. That's a major theme in the X-Files (trust no one, the constant feeling of Mulder and Scully being alone against a vast conspiracy) and Peggy/Don's relationship has some of the same elements. This episode told us pretty clearly that they have a connection like that and that they understand and can trust each other more than anyone else in their lives.
turnbuckle
Member
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
It's funny, because his crying in earlier seasons never seemed real to me-- always took me out of the mood-- but in this episode, I was right there.
PS: site is hilarious.
PS: site is hilarious.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Charred Greyface said:
Yep.
Interesting, but a bit off-base.
CajoleJuice
Member
Yeah, I thought the same.Charred Greyface said:
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
How the hell could anyone not know what was going on in that pilot episode hand touch?
sixteen-bit
Member
I'm losing my shit over heresoul creator said:
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Didn't TNR give a horrible recap/review to 'The Chrysanthemum and the Sword' a few weeks ago?
CajoleJuice
Member
sixteen-bit
Member
they hated the Lane episode toodave is ok said:
Great ep, that phone conversation had some great editing
I really liked Don's character in this episode, felt natural and how he's supposed to be. Not like when he drank Saki in the previous ep, that felt waaay to forced
Favorite moment was "oh I'm so sick that I ruined her birthday"
I really liked Don's character in this episode, felt natural and how he's supposed to be. Not like when he drank Saki in the previous ep, that felt waaay to forced
Favorite moment was "oh I'm so sick that I ruined her birthday"
Burger
Member
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
wow, i think i really dislike don now?
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
Amir0x said:
well, to be honest, no, i never disliked him like i dislike him after watching him ream peggy this episode. i won't bother trying to explain why that is, beyond to say that i suppose a lot of the other things i can draw toward stupid lapses in judgment or human weakness or succumbing to temptation, like he had some major emotional problems or something. but him tearing down peggy seemed malicious and needlessly cruel, so yeah, i felt myself turn on him, finally.
beelzebozo said:
besides the other totally cruel and malicious times he's torn apart Peggy, he's also a homophobe, womanizer, horrible father and he frequently takes credit for the work others do.
I mean I'm glad you're finally joining the Don is an awful person bandwagon (since that's the way he has been written since day one), I was just a little surprised this was the magic episode to do that. He's done this exact same thing before, only at least this episode we can sort of understand where it's coming from since he's just lashing out (and drinking THIS hard) as a defense mechanism to avoid making that phone call.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Gotta disagree on the homophobe part. He kept Sal's secret until it intruded on business at which point I always felt like he treated Sal like he would any hetero employee who didn't just suck it up and do Lee Garner Jr. Plus, biggest client and all. No win situation for everyone.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
your protracted, multiple-season hate for don makes me reconsider my position and feel a little less bad about him. thanks man!
i_am_not_jon_ames said:
Except he essentially implied to Sal he should have gone ahead and been raped for the job, and his muttering "you people..." was a whimpering shot at the idea that "how dare you reject gay sex, you're fucking gay!"
beezlebozo said:
Hey, you can feel whatever you like about him, but largely ignoring the entire shows portrayal of Don suggests a misreading of the show that is not at all surprising coming from you.
sneakypete
Member
K this one got me :lol
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
Amir0x said:
oh shit son, you got me pegged
beelzebozo said:
you peg yourself, I just know how to read.
hamchan said:
you objectively know he's a horrible person, but Don Draper's alpha male swagger has a certain allure nobody can deny. It's what draws people back to the show. The show has convinced pretty much everyone that even though he is a horrible person, he IS often brilliant, and the world seems to revolve around him at SCDP.
But yeah if you watched the show for four seasons and don't think Don is a horrendous human being, that says something only about the people who think that, not Don Draper.
bodyofanamerican
Member
I took the "you people" to mean "ugh you fucking gays, fucking up my goddamn work life". Again, doesn't give a shit till it effects him.Amir0x said:
Totally see where you're coming from, though.
In terms of homophobia, Don is a product of his time. I'd actually tend to think that he's pretty tolerant relative to his era. And I do agree that he'd be pissed at anyone for not sleeping with someone to further his (or the firm's) agenda. He thinks of sex as a transaction, and he has no concept of people treating it as anything else.
Doesn't excuse it, but it's worth remembering the show is set 45 years ago. Stonewall hadn't even happened yet.
Doesn't excuse it, but it's worth remembering the show is set 45 years ago. Stonewall hadn't even happened yet.
Don is a total asshole, but a loveable one. Tw audience is wooed into caring for him just as the women in his life do.
The whole "the good guy is really a bad guy"' dynamic has been done to dealth, yet the series keeps things feeling fresh and original.
The Shield did something very similar (yet to a much more violet and sociopathic degree).
How anyone could not hate Don just after the first episode scares me a little.
The whole "the good guy is really a bad guy"' dynamic has been done to dealth, yet the series keeps things feeling fresh and original.
The Shield did something very similar (yet to a much more violet and sociopathic degree).
How anyone could not hate Don just after the first episode scares me a little.
maharg said:
Well everyone in the show is a product of his/her time, obviously. But just like I'm not going to go and think Roger Sterling is a good person after he got to black face at his Kentucky derby thing, I'm not going to suggest Don is magically a good person either. He's a homophobe... true, most people of that era were, but that doesn't excuse it or make him less of a terrible person for being that way.
It's just one check in a massive checklist of bad things about Don.
Don is a terrible human being, but it's pretty clear he's NOT a homophobe. He saw Sal post-coital with some dude, and said nothing about it. He intentionally let Sal keep his dignity, safety, and job. Watch the scene where he fires Sal again. Don makes it pretty clear that he would have slept with a female client to keep her business and that he expects it the same from Sal as well. To deduce, solely from "you people," that he's a homophobe, despite all his past behavior, is really poor character reading.
And his tirade against Peggy this week was one of his most reasonable (albeit still not *actually* reasonable). Credit always goes to the person at top. That's how business works. In law, the trial attorney gets the reputation, even though most of the leg work is done by associates. On TV shows, directors/head writers get the credit even though they don't do the bulk of the writing. Peggy is one of the team members; Don is the leader. He gets the credit. But, like Don said, Peggy is young, and she will get her credit later when she rises up the ranks. That's the system, and Peggy doesn't get an exception.
But he should still say thank you.
And his tirade against Peggy this week was one of his most reasonable (albeit still not *actually* reasonable). Credit always goes to the person at top. That's how business works. In law, the trial attorney gets the reputation, even though most of the leg work is done by associates. On TV shows, directors/head writers get the credit even though they don't do the bulk of the writing. Peggy is one of the team members; Don is the leader. He gets the credit. But, like Don said, Peggy is young, and she will get her credit later when she rises up the ranks. That's the system, and Peggy doesn't get an exception.
But he should still say thank you.
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