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Mafia 3 Reveal Trailer (Hangar 13/Take-Two, 2016, PC/PS4/XB1)

Aug 10, 2013
46,695
1
0
He does look more Spanish than black, to be honest. But we still have comments like "I have no interest in playing a black people Mafia game", which is a racist thing to say either way.


It's embarrassing. I doubt I would have been as interested if it was just another same old same old Mafia. This actually looks like it's going to be fresh and new, and if it makes these people feel any better, he's about as light-skin black guy (if he is black) as they come.
They confirm in the op gameplay video that he's mixed race, black likely with white and that the white community treats you as black. We haven't heard how the black community treats the Mc.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
3
0
Goodfellas is a story about a guy who wants to make something of himself, but that drive leads him to become something of a monster and lose much of what he cares about. The characters are Italian-American. Scarface is a story about a guy who wants to make something of himself, but that drive leads him to become something of a monster and lose much of what he cares about. The character is Cuban living in America. I think both do a good job of telling a very similar story in a different way, and I don't see any reason why only Italian-Americans can satisfy the same kind of story. In the Black Donnellys, the character is Irish. In both the Black Donnellys and the Godfather, the character at the center of the story actually doesn't want to get involved with organized crime. But when you lay down with dogs, you get fleas.

The reason why Italian-American organized crime is compelling is because of the rich history; immigration, facing discrimination, ethnic self-segregation (and imposed segregation) in neighborhoods, poverty causing people to seek opportunities outside the law. It's not hard to imagine that a game about a biracial guy during the civil rights era could hit those notes.

I've noticed that many Mafia stories are basically westerns in that they portray a world on the cusp of changing and people who don't want to change with it. One popular setup is that "the old ways", the "code of honour" replaced by new, somehow worse things; unrestrained use of violence; trafficking drugs or prostitutes. You see this in the Godfather and in Goodfellas and the Sopranos as well. Here is this icon of conservative institutions facing a changing world. Clearly this is a premise this game can explore; first, if as it seems in the trailer that the organized crime people are the bad guys, a move from traditional crime families to individuals. Second, the changing demographics of society. Maybe even black nationalism in the wake of the BPP and disgruntled Vietnam veterans. Lots of ways they could take this.

Finally, one of the most common tropes in crime stories is "one last score". Characters that would have made it out alive if only they could have just settled for what they had instead of pushing for more. That escalation is what undoes them. This is most palpable in Heat, but also To Live and Die in LA, Dog Day Afternoon, The Wild Bunch (also a western crime film, another connection between the genres), The Score, to a lesser extent The Town, you could probably even stretch this to something like Miller's Crossing (also Irish rather than Italian), Blow (also an example of the first thing I mentioned about the man of humble beginnings who becomes a successful monster through his ambition, also not Italian-American). It's easy to imagine how the quest for revenge depicted in the trailer will lead to a very similar conundrum. Do I let the guy get away, or really try to have revenge, even if it's my own undoing?

I think anyone immersed in organized crime films and organized crime books could look at the tropes and expectations of the genre and recognize that this game's setup could fulfill them, even though the dude is not Italian.
 

Rembrandt

Banned
Jul 31, 2013
10,253
0
0
The fun thing is with mafia's realism, i'mma run a red light and get fucked all the way up.

Goodfellas is a story about a guy who wants to make something of himself, but that drive leads him to become something of a monster and lose much of what he cares about. The characters are Italian-American. Scarface is a story about a guy who wants to make something of himself, but that drive leads him to become something of a monster and lose much of what he cares about. The character is Cuban living in America. I think both do a good job of telling a very similar story in a different way, and I don't see any reason why only Italian-Americans can satisfy the same kind of story. In the Black Donnellys, the character is Irish. In both the Black Donnellys and the Godfather, the character at the center of the story actually doesn't want to get involved with organized crime. But when you lay down with dogs, you get fleas.

The reason why Italian-American organized crime is compelling is because of the rich history; immigration, facing discrimination, ethnic self-segregation (and imposed segregation) in neighborhoods, poverty causing people to seek opportunities outside the law. It's not hard to imagine that a game about a biracial guy during the civil rights era could hit those notes.

I've noticed that many Mafia stories are basically westerns in that they portray a world on the cusp of changing and people who don't want to change with it. One popular setup is that "the old ways", the "code of honour" replaced by new, somehow worse things; unrestrained use of violence; trafficking drugs or prostitutes. You see this in the Godfather and in Goodfellas and the Sopranos as well. Here is this icon of conservative institutions facing a changing world. Clearly this is a premise this game can explore; first, if as it seems in the trailer that the organized crime people are the bad guys, a move from traditional crime families to individuals. Second, the changing demographics of society. Maybe even black nationalism in the wake of the BPP and disgruntled Vietnam veterans. Lots of ways they could take this.

Finally, one of the most common tropes in crime stories is "one last score". Characters that would have made it out alive if only they could have just settled for what they had instead of pushing for more. That escalation is what undoes them. This is most palpable in Heat, but also To Live and Die in LA, Dog Day Afternoon, The Wild Bunch (also a western crime film, another connection between the genres), The Score, to a lesser extent The Town, you could probably even stretch this to something like Miller's Crossing (also Irish rather than Italian), Blow (also an example of the first thing I mentioned about the man of humble beginnings who becomes a successful monster through his ambition, also not Italian-American). It's easy to imagine how the quest for revenge depicted in the trailer will lead to a very similar conundrum. Do I let the guy get away, or really try to have revenge, even if it's my own undoing?

I think anyone immersed in organized crime films and organized crime books could look at the tropes and expectations of the genre and recognize that this game's setup could fulfill them, even though the dude is not Italian.
Great post and it's definitely an underrated pov in videogames. I'm excited to see how everything plays out in the game.
 

MMaRsu

Member
Jun 4, 2006
37,900
0
0
Netherlands
He does look more Spanish than black, to be honest. But we still have comments like "I have no interest in playing a black people Mafia game", which is a racist thing to say either way.

Edit: So he is mixed.
Not sure how that would be a racist thing to say at all.

Just like some people wont be interested to play Sleeping Dogs because of the triads etc. I played through that but I could understand it if its not someones cup of tea. Doesnt make them a racist outright lol.

People are way to quick to label anyone a racist these days.
 

ironcreed

Banned
Jun 4, 2011
30,337
2
0
I'm sad that such a great setting and setup is being wasted on a Mafia game, but I hope it turns out well.
Raising hell in NOLA while listening to Hendrix and The Doors in the 60's? What could possibly go wrong? This game is going to be great.
 

omonimo

Banned
Jun 6, 2012
7,572
1
0
It was a commentary of supposed fans of the genre showing their bias while at the same time failing to understand the culture they pretend to be fans of.

Its funny that people cant picture minorities in Werewolf-infested Victorian London, but connection between the Sicilians and the black community is an actual docummented thing.
I though this game was purely based on Italian mafia. Personally I never implied black people are never involved with them. But another thing it's they are inside the Italian mafia. That's all. I can't speak for the other but I don't get it why someone feels almost offended about this consideration :/
 

Ledhead

Member
Sep 15, 2014
1,632
1
0
I think anyone immersed in organized crime films and organized crime books could look at the tropes and expectations of the genre and recognize that this game's setup could fulfill them, even though the dude is not Italian.
Excellent write-up. I personally don't have an issue playing a character of colour, as long as said character is well written.

On a side note, old Vito looks pretty slick
 

MMaRsu

Member
Jun 4, 2006
37,900
0
0
Netherlands
i never said in games. shit is played out, period.
For you maybe, if the story is good enough I cant get enough of it.

Also since The Sopranos I havent seen any good shows or movies about italian mobsters.


Edit

Good write up stump, i agree with basically everything u said there.
 

Slash

Banned
Feb 1, 2015
89
0
0
Yeah, this is not Mafia. Oh well, i still can replay the original which is the best Mafia and it's flawed sequel.
 

Kiko

Member
Jan 1, 2015
462
0
0
Liked the footage so far. I'm a bit sceptical but will have a closer look at release
 

Lil'DigiOp

Member
Dec 18, 2013
3,141
0
0
Why Representation is Important: The Thread
"Main Character is black...."


A. Was looking forward to that Italian Mafia
B. Not interested in street crime
C. I can't relate to the main character

Its a damn shame.

Not sure how that would be a racist thing to say at all.

Just like some people wont be interested to play Sleeping Dogs because of the triads etc. I played through that but I could understand it if its not someones cup of tea. Doesnt make them a racist outright lol.

People are way to quick to label anyone a racist these days.
Its because we can sit here and bet money that these same people have NO problem whatsoever playing as Terrorists in CounterStrike or something basic as that, but have a magic problem with black MC's.
 

leatherhat

Member
Feb 7, 2011
2,810
0
0
Could they have picked more cliche music for the 60's? Whenever a piece of media is set during that decade you always get the same five songs. Terrible.
 

Bloodrage

Banned
Aug 22, 2009
5,457
0
0
NYC
Not sure how that would be a racist thing to say at all.

Just like some people wont be interested to play Sleeping Dogs because of the triads etc. I played through that but I could understand it if its not someones cup of tea. Doesnt make them a racist outright lol.

People are way to quick to label anyone a racist these days.
Black people = I'm not interested

That doesn't sound racist to you?

The Sleeping Dogs thing, were you one of those people too?
 

Rembrandt

Banned
Jul 31, 2013
10,253
0
0
i never said in games. shit is played out, period.
hell, even in video games you have:

The Godfather 1/2
Mafia I/II
GTA III

the more diversity in criminal organizations, the better. look at sleeping dogs, look at this. i'm still upset snoop's game got cancelled. could have been the hood game i needed.
 

ironcreed

Banned
Jun 4, 2011
30,337
2
0
Could they have picked more cliche music for the 60's? Whenever a piece of media is set during that decade you always get the same five songs. Terrible.
Don't worry, if iconic classic rock is not your thing, I am sure there will be more than one radio station, lol. I suspect there will be some nice blues and such as well, which I can definitely dig.
 

soundahfekz

Member
Jan 22, 2009
6,629
0
0
Not sure how that would be a racist thing to say at all.

Just like some people wont be interested to play Sleeping Dogs because of the triads etc. I played through that but I could understand it if its not someones cup of tea. Doesnt make them a racist outright lol.

People are way to quick to label anyone a racist these days.
People who say and do racist things never understand how something can be construed as racist.
 

JDSN

Banned
Sep 13, 2006
23,949
0
0
I though this game was purely based on Italian mafia. Personally I never implied black people are never involved with them. But another thing it's they are inside the Italian mafia. That's all. I can't speak for the other but I don't get it why someone feels almost offended about this consideration :/
Ah sorry if I gave the impression I was talking to you, mostly Marsu and his meltdown, but yeah everybody considered the series to be about italo-americans exclusively until today, but im okay with this since the presentation of the series has always been top-notch, this feels like them bringing that quality to new unexplored grounds. There is definetely a story to tell here.
 

Neverforget

Member
Mar 13, 2015
877
0
255
I'm having flash back from GTA San Andreas reveal, gaffers were outraged to see a black protagonist.

I wonder if years later they will look back to this thread and get ashamed.
 

Summer Haze

Banned
Jun 10, 2014
10,760
0
0
Don't worry, if iconic classic rock is not your thing, I am sure there will be more than one radio station, lol. I suspect there will be some nice blues and such as well, which I can definitely dig.
I really hope there's a dedicated jazz/blues station.

Also, this thread is embarrassing.
 

MMaRsu

Member
Jun 4, 2006
37,900
0
0
Netherlands
Black people = I'm not interested

That doesn't sound racist to you?

The Sleeping Dogs thing, were you one of those people too?
No like I said I played through most of it.

But nah thats not what most peoples point was at all.

Maybe its not as black and white as you want it to be.


Ok. Imagine for a second if Sleeping Dog featuring a black guy. He expected to control an oriental guy. I think it intended that, not anymore.
Basically my point.

Like a game ala The Wire where you have to hustle to the top and fight your way out, to only feature a white protag. No interest in that either.
 

Bloodrage

Banned
Aug 22, 2009
5,457
0
0
NYC
Ok. Imagine for a second if Sleeping Dog featuring a black guy. He expected to control a Chinese man. I think it intended that.
Your imagination is quite shit if you can't imagine a scenario where a mixed black guy couldn't control the triads. If he was half Chinese, would that make you feel better?
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,738
3
0
35
Nowhere, PA
Ok. Imagine for a second if Sleeping Dog featuring a black guy. He expected to control an oriental guy. I think it intended that, not much more.
That's not equivalent. There is an actual Black Mafia, and the actual Italian Mafia had many dealings with the Black criminal element (heroin trade featured prominently). So they had extensive relationships with these groups, even as they were simultaneously racist and insular.

You can parse it any way you like, but the way some are acting in this topic is ridiculous in the context of the actual history of the Mob.
 

JDSN

Banned
Sep 13, 2006
23,949
0
0
Ok. Imagine for a second if Sleeping Dog featuring a black guy. He expected to control an oriental guy. I think it intended that, not anymore.
Sleeping Dogs has a True Crime game until late in development, other games in the series starred a black dude and a Inspector Tequila clone.

Wei Shen also has to deal with the fact that his peers see him as an outsider for being in USA for so long, that source tension is cool and part of his character, he still faces certain discriminitaion, maybe something like that could show up in this game.
 

Scotia

Banned
May 29, 2015
5,287
1
0
I hope you can change outfits again, although it'd be pretty outrageous if you couldn't.
 

omonimo

Banned
Jun 6, 2012
7,572
1
0
Your imagination is quite shit if you can't imagine a scenario where a mixed black guy couldn't control the triads. If he was half Chinese, would that make you feel better?
I just explainable what he talked about. But if you want to find this thing racist at all costs, whatever you want.
 

Order

Member
Mar 7, 2012
7,619
0
0
Not sure how that would be a racist thing to say at all.

Just like some people wont be interested to play Sleeping Dogs because of the triads etc. I played through that but I could understand it if its not someones cup of tea. Doesnt make them a racist outright lol.

People are way to quick to label anyone a racist these days.
You won't play a game because the protagonist is black

How is that not racist
 

Zach

Member
Mar 28, 2013
25,706
0
455
Tulsa
No like I said I played through most of it.

But nah thats not what most peoples point was at all.

Maybe its not as black and white as you want it to be.




Basically my point.

Like a game ala The Wire where you have to hustle to the top and fight your way out, to only feature a white protag. No interest in that either.
You sure are posting a lot for not being interested in this game...
 

MMaRsu

Member
Jun 4, 2006
37,900
0
0
Netherlands
Is this a joke? What the fuck is "some kind of Spanish" supposed to mean?

edit;


Yeah, you trolling. Ain't nobody been here that long and that overtly racist.



Best use of this gif yet.
You won't play a game because the protagonist is black

Hoe is that not racist
Thats not what I said lol. Thats not why Im bummed about the game cause he is black.

Maybe I cant relate to all your accusations of racism cause im not from the us. Shit seems bad over there and maybe try being not so defensive and think that anyone who doesnt think a black mc works well in a mafia game or whatevs is a racist asshole.

You sure are posting a lot for not being interested in this game...
Being disappointed in the reveal means Im not allowed to respond/post?
 

Hip Hop

Member
Jan 14, 2013
10,816
0
575
U.S.A.
Cool, a game in my hometown. Will be interesting to see how it's portrayed.
Yeah. I'm really interested in the location. It seems like it won't be just buildings and concrete everywhere like New York is.

I'm glad. Really want to see the outskirts of it.
 

Scotia

Banned
May 29, 2015
5,287
1
0
You sure are posting a lot for not being interested in this game...
I also like how he said he was leaving the thread. I know I did too but that was only until things clamed down wich they sort of have.
 

Slayven

Member
Dec 10, 2004
121,838
2
0
USA
That's not equivalent. There is an actual Black Mafia, and the actual Italian Mafia had many dealings with the Black criminal element (heroin trade featured prominently). So they had extensive relationships with these groups, even as they were simultaneously racist and insular.

You can parse it any way you like, but the way some are acting in this topic is ridiculous in the context of the actual history of the Mob.
 

omonimo

Banned
Jun 6, 2012
7,572
1
0
That's not equivalent. There is an actual Black Mafia, and the actual Italian Mafia had many dealings with the Black criminal element (heroin trade featured prominently). So they had extensive relationships with these groups, even as they were simultaneously racist and insular.

You can parse it any way you like, but the way some are acting in this topic is ridiculous in the context of the actual history of the Mob.
Could be. But I wouldn't call them racist.
 

Mad Season

Banned
Nov 12, 2014
4,653
1
0
couple of things that stood out to me:

1. Definitely playing on the Rambo first blood theme. Vietnam Vet (John J). Walking in to a town from afar with backpack on



2. Animations are stiff across the board. Running, driving etc.
 

jmood88

Member
Jan 7, 2009
10,153
0
715
That's not equivalent. There is an actual Black Mafia, and the actual Italian Mafia had many dealings with the Black criminal element (heroin trade featured prominently). So they had extensive relationships with these groups, even as they were simultaneously racist and insular.

You can parse it any way you like, but the way some are acting in this topic is ridiculous in the context of the actual history of the Mob.
And there was even a popular movie about it (American Gangster), so they can't at least go to their historical documents to get all the necessary backstory.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,738
3
0
35
Nowhere, PA
Thats not what I said lol. Thats not why Im bummed about the game cause he is black.

Maybe I cant relate to all your accusations of racism cause im not from the us. Shit seems bad over there and maybe try being not so defensive and think that anyone who doesnt think a black mc works well in a mafia game or whatevs is a racist asshole.
There is a Black Mafia.
The game deals with things like the end of the romanticizing of the Mafia and things like the heroin trade.
The heroin trade had an extremely prominent Black criminal organization element to it.

So far, the actual problem is that there is no reason anyone has given yet why a Black protagonist would NOT work. History says not only does it work, but if they're going to deal with this element of Mob history it's essential.
 

Splatterpunk

Member
Feb 10, 2014
397
0
0
Setting looks cool as hell, glad it's not another big (boring) city. Plus potentially interesting characters. Now onto hoping that the story itself is good, considering Mafia II's was cliched as fuck.

As that earlier interaction with the police and broadcast hinted at, the game’s setting and time period are filled with volatile subject matter, particularly when it comes to race in America. That’s something that the developers aren’t erasing from their story, and there were certainly a few instances where characters used language likely to start fistfights today.

“It’s 1968, it’s part of the world, and we’re not going to shy away from it – but we’re also not going to be getting up on a soapbox,” Blackman says. “The language is going to be the language of the time, but the player’s reactions to that are going to be the player’s reactions to that – we’re not going to be prescriptive on that. We’re not forcing Lincoln to do anything specific based on what’s going on in the time period. I would also add that while race is one of the things that’s part of Lincoln’s identity, it’s not the only thing that defines him. It’s an important thing, make no doubt about it, but he’s also defined by the fact that he’s an orphan, by the fact that he’s loyal, that he’s a Vietnam vet – and all of those relationships.”
Promising tidbit, but I'm being a bit cynical in also reading it as "don't worry, we won't focus too much on race (for those of you made uncomfortable by that)"