Major Climate Report Describes a Strong Risk of Crisis as Early as 2040

JordanN

Junior Member
#51
I think the mass movement of people because of climate change will lead to widespread civil unrest in previously peaceful countries. Europe will be hit hard.
Europe is already being hit hard. Look at the ongoing refugee crisis.

The question of border control needs to be addressed sooner rather than later, because if unlimited immigration continues, then how is solving climate change even feasible?

We keep bring more people into these countries, where do these resources come from to support them all? Oil isn't free. Meat isn't free. I haven't seen any study that says immigrants are anymore likely to "go green".

In my country, the government is planning on increasing the population to 100 million by 2100. But at the same time, they also want to push more Carbon taxes. Like, this stuff doesn't add up but I'm still expected to pay for it all.
 
Last edited:
#52
Europe is already being hit hard. Look at the ongoing refugee crisis.

The question of border control needs to be addressed sooner rather than later, because if unlimited immigration continues, then how is solving climate change even feasible?

We bring more people into these country, where do these resources come from to support them all? Oil isn't free. Meat isn't free. I haven't seen any study that says immigrants are anymore likely to "go green".
Yeah, you're right there is ongoing crisis, but the migration crises that arise from climate change will dwarf it. I don't think "compassionate" Europe will simply turn people away. When things become unbearable, they will move northwards; Europe's geographical location makes this inevitable. The resource and cultural problems that arise will be crazy.
But I just don't think liberal European countries will turn them away. They'll force their citizens to accept them.
 
#53
Yeah, you're right there is ongoing crisis, but the migration crises that arise from climate change will dwarf it. I don't think "compassionate" Europe will simply turn people away. When things become unbearable, they will move northwards; Europe's geographical location makes this inevitable. The resource and cultural problems that arise will be crazy.
But I just don't think liberal European countries will turn them away. They'll force their citizens to accept them.
The inherent problem is though, that people don't recognise that much of Europe is already beyond what is termed natural carrying capacity in the sense of at a national level a country being able to feed its populace on a sustainable level. UK, Germany, France & The Netherlands (especially) are fairly reliant on food imports from other countries. When we are looking at an environmental shift, you can't expect that those supply chains will maintain. The politicians often argue about the need to maintain population levels, but the reality is if anything Europe needs far fewer people in the long term versus more as we head towards a situation where self-reliance will become more of a thing. The arguments about maintaining population are largely driven by economic factors in terms of tax generation, not with any regard to the environmental impact.

The ugly truth is at some point the world will need as a whole to look at population decrease, and likely enforced birth control with controlled conception via licence, and you can bet your bottom dollar qualms about genetic engineering will have gone out the window at that juncture. Poor, uneducated? No licence for you.
 
Last edited:
#55
Maybe becuase other political threads are about things that we can actually control
Well at least politics is fun when one party throws shit at another. Fun gifs and so on.

Without world government, we won't achieve anything anyway so why bother? Humanity will persevere.
I remember in the 70s you had all kinds of doomsayers saying the exact same stuff. They were full of shit like all fortune tellers but they sold a lot of books. It’s the leftist version of the Christian apocalypse at this point. You even see people embracing horrible “well half of humanity will have to die” talking points
Also this
 
Last edited:
#56
I remember in the 70s you had all kinds of doomsayers saying the exact same stuff.
Is the claim here that people have been saying the same thing for 50 years and it hasn't come true so we shouldn't believe it? I'm sure you know 50 years is absolutely nothing on a geological scale... For all we know, those doomsayers from the '70s are still correct.
 
#57
@Arkage.

I'm not convinced the present warming isn't just another natural cycle -- they've happened before .
No they haven’t. I mean...the picture in the link you sent shows a very gradual, and minuscule rise over hundreds of years and then an unprecedented spike over the last 20 years.

We are digging up and burning 6 million years worth of sequestered carbon every year. All of this is very well understood.

Humanity has this problem dealing with very important but very slow emergency’s. We were react to sudden events, not big picture existential crises.

The US didn’t even teach evolution in school until the Russians launched Sputnik and we suddenly realized that we we’re lagging behind in science education.
 
Last edited:
#61
Lol yes tell us the weather in 20 years. Weathermen can barely predict if it’s going to rain tomorrow and that’s for simple local systems.

I remember in the 70s you had all kinds of doomsayers saying the exact same stuff. They were full of shit like all fortune tellers but they sold a lot of books. It’s the leftist version of the Christian apocalypse at this point. You even see people embracing horrible “well half of humanity will have to die” talking points
There may have been a single scientist or two that predicted doom in the 70s and got publicity for it. Now we have 70 global scientists assessing 6,000 scientific papers on the topic. Your skepticism is overwhelming for what is otherwise one of the most well researched, documented, and evidenced theories we have today. You may as well be skeptical of rocket launches because a few exploded in the past.
 
#62
The only way things will change is if it changes people's lives directly. Not just western people but China, India and the other significant influences in carbon creation. Until its directly and clearly hurting people's lifestyle will anything be done about it. Sadly there isn't really any solution to the issue. Tax principles like the Paris accord are simply wealth transfer concepts not really a solution. There should be significant science investment in trying to sequester carbon from the air, at least until we can find replacements to oil
 
#63
Also a fact about me some of you might find interesting. Even though I’m a liberal on most issues, I follow the party that presents the strongest message about doing something on climate change. If Republicans suddenly changed their tune and were all about green energy growth and training coal workers in green energy I’d vote for them regularly. I used to vote Dem mostly due to gay marriage and abortion rights, and those two things are now mostly in place. The things the Dems have replaced them with haven’t appealed to me nearly as much so now my only real political compass is based upon this impending global crises. Trump called it a Chinese hoax, pulled out of the only global effort ever attempting to do something about it, and installed an EPA that deregulates most things. This is reason #1 I didn’t vote for him. Had his position been full support of climate change policy I would’ve actually voted for him despite all of his other huge shortcomings.

In a sense, this is the single issue I am apolitical about, and will vote for whoever supports it the most (and has a practical chance of winning in the 2 party system).
 
#64
Not just western people but China, India and the other significant influences in carbon creation. Until its directly and clearly hurting people's lifestyle will anything be done about it.
Looking at how people live in India and wash themselves in the dirtiest rivers unless meteor falls nobody would care.
 
Last edited:
#66
Europe is already being hit hard. Look at the ongoing refugee crisis.
the Europe refugee crisis has far more to do with the Iraq War & War on Terror & other US imperialist adventures. you don't have masses of people fleeing their home country because it is 2 degree hotter, they are fleeing because people are getting blown up on a daily basis
 
#67
No they haven’t. I mean...the picture in the link you sent shows a very gradual, and minuscule rise over hundreds of years and then an unprecedented spike over the last 20 years.
What spikes is the black line, which is recent instrumental history. We don't really know how much warmer the Medieval Warm Period got.

Why the fuck are people comparing this with predicting the weather?
"Tomorrow it'll be 2 degrees warmer."

"In twenty years it'll be 2 degrees warmer."

I suppose I lack the scientific insight to properly differentiate these predictions. But then, I suspect you do too.
 
#68
At 45, I've heard this lots of times. Allow me to be sceptical and indifferent.
/but no, it's definitely real this time.
/ok, sure, (shrug). I ain't going to panic, and there's nothing I can do anyway (Being a lifetime minimalist anyhow).
My dad told me that even during the 70s they said that fuel resources would have run out soon
 
Last edited:
#69
As Kenshiro says about our world.



Time to learn Hokuto no Ken so I can survive in the post-apocalyptic universe.
Climate Change can reverse, but it only can if there's carbon tax to make everyone forced to be aware of their consumption relating to carbon release. Won't happen with all the lobbying.

By the time Miami is under water, it'll be too late. Glaciers melting and no longer having reflecting properties, coral reefs dying and no longer able to hold in the carbon, same with trees being clear cut. We haven't hit the point of no return, but we will if nothing happens. Then the war for resources will start.
 
#70
, but it only can if there's carbon tax to make everyone forced to be aware of their consumption relating to carbon release.
You honestly believe a tax is going to fix anything? All it will do is cost people money. People still need to drive, heat their homes, eat.

The only solution is to make hard choices. Vehicles only for key people, farms. Single child families, no more meat production and consumption. Same rules applied to all countries.

I suspect you have a better chance growing additional arms than enforcing any of that
 
#71
Forget everything else. This issue alone is enough to oppose the Trump administration and the GOP on its own.

We are teetering on a cliff and rather than hitting the brakes, this administration wants to floor the accelerator. It is madness, motivated by greed and short sightedness.

Considering the Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Think of a 24 hour cycle as a one second in Earth time. It took hundreds or thousands of years for past warming cycles. It is the rapid change that is alarming. Things are changing very quickly. We are also currently living in the Earth’s sixth mass extinction event. This is not up for debate, it is a irrevocable fact.

We can either try to do something collectively which involves the worlds governments coming together, (Paris Climate Accords) or we can put our collective heads in the sands and explain to our grandchildren why the planet they inherited is filled to the brim with toxicity ,unbreathable air, and lacks fresh water.

If you are concerned about environmental issues in any capacity then you owe it to yourself to oppose Donald John Trump and his administrations assault against the environment.

Also something that has always bothered me is that no one ever mentions the massive amount of CO2 or pollution produced through armed conflict or war.
 
Last edited:
#75
You honestly believe a tax is going to fix anything? All it will do is cost people money. People still need to drive, heat their homes, eat.

The only solution is to make hard choices. Vehicles only for key people, farms. Single child families, no more meat production and consumption. Same rules applied to all countries.

I suspect you have a better chance growing additional arms than enforcing any of that
Yes, carbon tax is the best solution possible to change people's lifestyle.

And it won't cost money if you lower a tax or do a tax shift to something that isn't related to Climate Change, like payroll tax.
 
#76
"Tomorrow it'll be 2 degrees warmer."

"In twenty years it'll be 2 degrees warmer."

I suppose I lack the scientific insight to properly differentiate these predictions. But then, I suspect you do too.
Surely you understand the difference between predicting weather and predicting trends in global temperature? Even to a basic degree. It's not remotely the same thing.
 
#77
Yes, carbon tax is the best solution possible to change people's lifestyle.

And it won't cost money if you lower a tax or do a tax shift to something that isn't related to Climate Change, like payroll tax.
No. If you change people's lifestyle to a more self sustaining one the economy will collapse. What would you spend money on? Why would you work for a 6 digit job when you could be taxed into a different job bracket? If you adopt a minimalist lifestyle you could live off poverty well. Not to mention the trust in ones country and that trust to not be misplaced would have to be absolute.

Instead of taxing people into a utopia that will end in invasion...

Why don't we start with motorcycle lanes as mandatory items on state and federal highways being built or revamped? And a 1000$ tax credit for a scooter or motorcycle under 500cc. Also teach people how to drive them in middle school using 90-125cc bikes. Change the culture of transportation.
 
#78
Yes, carbon tax is the best solution possible to change people's lifestyle.
Nah, I have done everything reasonable to reduce my footprint, I take transit, installed a programmable thermostat, installed low flow shower faucets, changed all my lights to led, replaced my hot water tank among other things. The carbon tax imposed on me has only made my cost of living go up.

Carbon taxes are another tax grab by the government to rob me under the premise of "we're helping you save the planet"

The Paris Accord is a wealth transfer scheme and will do nothing to help the predicament this planet is in
 
#80
Maybe becuase other political threads are about things that we can actually control
But people can control this. I mean, look, we still have a chance to minimize the cost of human life (and animal life) here?

I don’t know if you‘ve watched the latest Mr Metokur videos (or streams) but you sound like a dude saying „people are deviants anyway, so why out people who fuck and torture animals to death, there’s probably a lot more of them we don’t know of“.

That’s also a point of a lot more posts here: Sure there’s countries out there who contribute more to global climate change (however, the U.S. is by most metrics on 2nd place), but waiting for someone else to do something before you do something is just idiotic.

It’s as if you would stand with a bucket watching your front yard being on fire and just stand there, not filling it with water and trying to put it out before your house catches fire because your neighbors have bigger buckets.

It’s your damn house, so USE that fucking bucket.
 
#81
There will be a way to fix things.
We’ve got very smart people on this planet that will be able to treat the issues caused by mankind.
Yes, there are a lot of very smart people and they figured out decades ago how to -then- prevent it and now that no one listened to them at least minimize it. This is you answering to their publicized warning. Don’t you get that?
 
#83
Carbon Tax is one of the biggest tax scams put forth recently (next to the Obama Care tax), while a lot of them are scams, that one is taking the cake. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
I agree that carbon taxes are way to low to make them a viable instrument, they are just a joke right now. They should be increased by a factor of 1000 to not be just a method for states to get more money, but to actually reduce CO2 emissions.
 

diablos991

Can’t stump the diablos
#85
Yes, there are a lot of very smart people and they figured out decades ago how to -then- prevent it and now that no one listened to them at least minimize it. This is you answering to their publicized warning. Don’t you get that?
I think there are instances where preventing something is more costly than resolving it later.

Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be better stewards of the world but this isn’t the end of times or anything. We’ll persevere.
 
#86
No. If you change people's lifestyle to a more self sustaining one the economy will collapse. What would you spend money on? Why would you work for a 6 digit job when you could be taxed into a different job bracket? If you adopt a minimalist lifestyle you could live off poverty well. Not to mention the trust in ones country and that trust to not be misplaced would have to be absolute.

Instead of taxing people into a utopia that will end in invasion...

Why don't we start with motorcycle lanes as mandatory items on state and federal highways being built or revamped? And a 1000$ tax credit for a scooter or motorcycle under 500cc. Also teach people how to drive them in middle school using 90-125cc bikes. Change the culture of transportation.
Nah, I have done everything reasonable to reduce my footprint, I take transit, installed a programmable thermostat, installed low flow shower faucets, changed all my lights to led, replaced my hot water tank among other things. The carbon tax imposed on me has only made my cost of living go up.

Carbon taxes are another tax grab by the government to rob me under the premise of "we're helping you save the planet"

The Paris Accord is a wealth transfer scheme and will do nothing to help the predicament this planet is in
It's like you guys don't read. Add carbon tax, reduce other existing taxes.

No one cares about what you already do because you're not the problem. It's everyone else that needs to know.
 
#87
It's like you guys don't read. Add carbon tax, reduce other existing taxes.

No one cares about what you already do because you're not the problem. It's everyone else that needs to know.
If you honestly believe that the government will lower other taxes to compensate the dramatic hike needed to dissuade people from, you know, living, you have way to much trust in your elected officials.

It's more like some insane carbon tax goes thru, and as an offset, they offer some minimal tax credit if you buy something. Itll be an 80/20 split at best.

A carbon tax is not going to work unless its absolutely draconian, and that wont ever have the needed public support.

Learning to correct the warming, and controlling our environment is what the money should be spent on, not trying to change behaviors. It's the hardest thing anyone can ever do, and its niegh impossible.
 
#88
There is always climate change.
Oh please stop with this disingenuous nonsense. You think experts in the field don't know about the natural changes in earth's climate over the millions and billions of years? The point is that over the last short period of time (hundreds, not millions!) the earth's climate has and is going to change significantly in a way that doesn't fit in with natural climate change that has happened in the past.
 
#89
Oh please stop with this disingenuous nonsense. You think experts in the field don't know about the natural changes in earth's climate over the millions and billions of years? The point is that over the last short period of time (hundreds, not millions!) the earth's climate has and is going to change significantly in a way that doesn't fit in with natural climate change that has happened in the past.
Ok. I’ll be holding my breath until 2040.
 
#91
Skepticism and outright denial turning into apathy and/or nihilism as the scientific consensus becomes more and more irrefutable is a saddening but somehow not surprising.
science has never been about consensus. its about proof. every 5 years the doom and gloom predictions get moved back, even though world consumption of fossil fuels has only continued to grow.
 
#92
It's like you guys don't read. Add carbon tax, reduce other existing taxes.

No one cares about what you already do because you're not the problem. It's everyone else that needs to know.
Ok, if I'm not the problem then why am I being punished (by being over-taxed) like I am?
As it was mentioned earlier, either they impose draconian taxation on a global scale or they think of something else, otherwise it's just another way to take money out of my pocket while accomplishing nothing in the grand scheme of things