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Major Study Finds Masks Don’t Reduce COVID-19 Infection Rates

cryptoadam

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Feb 21, 2018
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Wear the mask, except when we go to dinner with the Governor

The way it should work is if you go into a business or whatever they give a new mask, you use it single use and then dispose of it. When I go to the hospital or Clinic thats what they do. Even if I was already wearing a mask they would give me a new one.

Wearing the same shitty mask over and over again is doing nothing.
 

Urban Viking

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Oct 21, 2012
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Honest question:

How many times have you been told that the major point behind wearing masks, is to protect others from you if you have a disease, and not the other way around? it's always been considered only nominal protection at best for the wearer of the mask.

Because it seems really unlikely you have never been told that, after all these months...

Alternatively: have you ever read those signs at a doctors office that tell you that you need to wear a mask if you are showing certain symptoms? Has it ever clicked with you why the sick people are the ones expected to wear a mask? lol
Indeed. The study only quantifies what has been been known for a long time: masks aren’t supposed to protect you from the virus, but rather protect others from you should you happen to carry the virus. It’s good to have a study with concrete results, but there’s nothing controversial about it.
 

crisdecuba

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Perhaps mentioned, but it’s far better to read the actual study, rather than the horribly biased write-up in the OP’s article. The only reasonable conclusions to draw from the study are the conclusions mentioned in the study itself:

Yet, the findings were inconclusive and cannot definitively exclude a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection of mask wearers in such a setting. It is important to emphasize that this trial did not address the effects of masks as source control or as protection in settings where social distancing and other public health measures are not in effect.

Reduction in release of virus from infected persons into the environment may be the mechanism for mitigation of transmission in communities where mask use is common or mandated, as noted in observational studies. Thus, these findings do not provide data on the effectiveness of widespread mask wearing in the community in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections. They do, however, offer evidence about the degree of protection mask wearers can anticipate in a setting where others are not wearing masks and where other public health measures, including social distancing, are in effect. The findings also suggest that persons should not abandon other COVID-19 safety measures regardless of the use of masks.

So, if you’re a mask wearer and you’re one of the few mask wearers in your group, this study cannot definitively conclude that you’re any better off. It does NOT provide data re: the effectiveness of widespread mask usage and the effectiveness of protecting others when you are the one who has it.
 
Feb 18, 2013
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I never knew what to believe in when it comes to masks until my own experience with the virus. Masks put an end to our workplace outbreak. So I believe they make a difference.

Did you hear about the man who stood in the middle of his town square clapping every ten seconds?
A little girl went up to him and asked why he was clapping it and he replied,
'To scare away the elephants.'
'But there aren't any elephants round here' said the little girl.
'Exactly.' said the man.
 

crisdecuba

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Jun 11, 2004
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Did you hear about the man who stood in the middle of his town square clapping every ten seconds?
A little girl went up to him and asked why he was clapping it and he replied,
'To scare away the elephants.'
'But there aren't any elephants round here' said the little girl.
'Exactly.' said the man.
That analogy doesn’t make sense. The post said there was an outbreak, which ended after mask wearing was instituted. To make the analogy match, there had to have once been an elephant infestation that ended once the man started clapping.
 

Durask

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The way many people wear their masks is borderline useless - take them off, touch their faces, etc.
If you wear a properly fitted N95 mask of course it your chances of getting any respiratory infection is close to zero. However if you take the mask off and start picking your nose with a dirty finger then yeah masks are useless.
In medicine there is a specific way to take off your mask, gloves, gown to avoid contaminating youself - I doubt 99% of people do anything close to it.
 

quickwhips

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That actually does make a difference for the wearer. Whenever I go into heavily populated spaces, I wear a 3d-printed respirator with a special filter. But the cloth masks 99% of people wear don't do much to prevent the virus actually coming in.
I find it is hard to wear for long periods of time but I have like a large supply from painting cars and will have enough for the family for about a year or so. Who would have thought stocking up on paint supplies would come in handy.
 
Feb 18, 2013
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That analogy doesn’t make sense. The post said there was an outbreak, which ended after mask wearing was instituted. To make the analogy match, there had to have once been an elephant infestation that ended once the man started clapping.

Where do you think the clapping guy learned his trick? In the middle of an elephant herd of course.
 

diffusionx

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Feb 25, 2006
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The way many people wear their masks is borderline useless - take them off, touch their faces, etc.
If you wear a properly fitted N95 mask of course it your chances of getting any respiratory infection is close to zero. However if you take the mask off and start picking your nose with a dirty finger then yeah masks are useless.
In medicine there is a specific way to take off your mask, gloves, gown to avoid contaminating youself - I doubt 99% of people do anything close to it.

It gets even worse, you have public health officials like in CA telling people to wear a mask at a restaurant and *reapply it between bites." So basically to touch your mask dozens if not hundreds of times over the course of your meal.

At that point you might as well just smear the mask all of your face.
 
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ipukespiders

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A mask is just another essential part of my toolkit. Duct tape, zip ties, thick rubber gloves, head lamp and a shovel complete my gear.
 

clem84

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Asia has been wearing them forever and aside from India where masks are considered an affront to masculinity their death rates pale in comparison. Let’s all admit this wouldn’t even be a debate if orange man hadn’t made it one.
You think the US is the only place in the world where people resist the wearing of masks? I don't agree that Trump started this debate. I think it would have been just as present had Hillary been president.
 
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NoMoChokeSJ

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You think the US is the only place in the world where people resist the wearing of masks? I don't agree that Trump started this debate. I think it would have been just as present had Hillary been president.
No, but there are dumb people in every country. For the US the problem is rhetoric and inconsistent messaging. If Trump would've advocated for masks then his base would've preached the practice as good for the country and all-American. Instead he politicized a public health crisis and now we get a group who look at it as a conspiracy instead of using some common sense. Because of this we have more cases than anybody. Its just dumb.. seriously.
 

Sign

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No, but there are dumb people in every country. For the US the problem is rhetoric and inconsistent messaging. If Trump would've advocated for masks then his base would've preached the practice as good for the country and all-American. Instead he politicized a public health crisis and now we get a group who look at it as a conspiracy instead of using some common sense. Because of this we have more cases than anybody. Its just dumb.. seriously.

Source?
 
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CrapSandwich

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I think Trump's approach was fairly political, but TBH the democrats and media came at him with knives out first. He always responds to stuff like that and really it wouldn't be at all fair or accurate to lay the politicization of everything at Trump's feet. It's been going on for a very long time and I'd agree that the other side started it.
 
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cryptoadam

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Blame Fauci.

He was the one who said masks are useless and people are dummies who will spread the virus. He also said fuck the pleebs doctors need these masks because regular people aren't important.

So if Fauci was saying this in PUBLIC, what do you think he told Trump? I will give Fauci the benefit of the doubt and say that he was saying the same thing to Trump, sinces Trumps message aligns perfectly with Fauci's.

Then when Dr F decided that enough doctors had masks he switched his tune and then every PC the SG or Birx or Fauci would go up there telling people to wear masks.

Trump was never an anti masker, he just pointed out like FAUCI that they can give you a false sense of security and the science on it isn't settled. His example of a waiter sums it up perfectly. And even still he throws masks out at his rallies, carries one which he says he wears when he cant SD, and tells people to follow local guidelines. Even his own guidelines say to wear a mask when you cant SD. And on Patriot radio I hear the SG telling me to wear a mask a few times a day.

I am curious what changed from Feb to today? If masks back then gave a false sense of security and could lead to people getting schmutz on their hands and spreading it around I don't see how that changed. anytime I see people with masks half the time its around their chin, their touching it a million times, or they grabbed it from the floor of their car.

The big change in masks came when it was a narrative to attack Trump that the media couldn't get off of, and then BLM protests happened so the left wanted to justify why they could protests.

but its ok it creates a boogeyman. The reason the virus is spreading is because those evil dummy non mask wearers, if only we could throw them all into a gulag then the virus would be gone.

If you want universal masks, then you need to provide metrics. All this blind trust shit should stop. Masks work? Ok then give me a time line, reduction %, etc... The whole deal with masks was that we could get back to doing things if we have masks, yet here we are locking down again. So its a bum deal with no KPIs to hold anyone accountable.
 

NoMoChokeSJ

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Really? Lol. He called it a fucking hoax all while knowing that is was 5x deadlier than the flu.. all on tape. He's under cut the narrative of his taskforce in the same press conferences they presented in many times, attempted to manipulate cdc guidelines, Moved the RNC after they said he'd violate cdc guidelines, held large scale evemts against cdc guidlines, encouraged peiple to push back against state mask mandates and shutdowns, has repeatedly singled out democratically run states, ect, ect, ect. Seriously, you would have to be a complete moron to not think he's politicized the shit out of this.
 

Kalamari

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Wear the mask, except when we go to dinner with the Governor

The way it should work is if you go into a business or whatever they give a new mask, you use it single use and then dispose of it. When I go to the hospital or Clinic thats what they do. Even if I was already wearing a mask they would give me a new one.

Wearing the same shitty mask over and over again is doing nothing.
I think I might just tape toilet paper to my face, cheapest mask ever!
 
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Sign

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Really? Lol. He called it a fucking hoax all while knowing

Source?

that is was 5x deadlier than the flu.. all on tape.

Source?

He's under cut the narrative of his taskforce in the same press conferences they presented in many times,




attempted to manipulate cdc guidelines, Moved the RNC after they said he'd violate cdc guidelines, held large scale evemts against cdc guidlines,

Was this before or after “health officials” came out in favor of months of rioting?

encouraged peiple to push back against state mask mandates

Source?
and shutdowns, has repeatedly singled out democratically run states, ect, ect, ect.

You mean the ones that killed thousands of people in nursing homes, or the ones that have been told their lockdowns are unconstitutional in one way or another?

Seriously, you would have to be a complete moron to not think he's politicized the shit out of this.

Or maybe you’re just a lemming and believe everything on TV?
 

Cycom

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I'm saying this with good intentions: temporarily detach yourself from the covid news sources you're currently following and get an opposing point view to balance yourself out. The mainstream news and most of our governments are deceiving us.
The deception is fucking REAL.

I’ll second your sentiments: people, step out of your bubbles, stop watching msm fear porn, ignore the “do as i say, not as I do” politicians/leaders and THINK. You’re being lied to on a daily basis.
 

Neil Young

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Really? Lol. He called it a fucking hoax all while knowing that is was 5x deadlier than the flu.. all on tape. He's under cut the narrative of his taskforce in the same press conferences they presented in many times, attempted to manipulate cdc guidelines, Moved the RNC after they said he'd violate cdc guidelines, held large scale evemts against cdc guidlines, encouraged peiple to push back against state mask mandates and shutdowns, has repeatedly singled out democratically run states, ect, ect, ect. Seriously, you would have to be a complete moron to not think he's politicized the shit out of this.
All it would take is five minutes of research. Do you also believe the "fine people" lie as well?

Little story. I live in one of the most liberal states. EVERYONE wears a mask, everyone social distances. We're locking up again. How could that be, we're following the rules...everyone except our governor. I went to get takeout from a vietnamese restaurant we like. They can't have anyone inside. The owner, who I'm familiar with, said he will not make it through this latest lockdown. They WILL be closing for good. The look on this man's face told me all I need to know.

This isn't about masks. It's about control. Those in charge will see us lose everything we have to pretend like they doing the right thing and show everyone how moral they are. They know it's bullshit, they rub it in our face. But yeah, Drumph!!
 

NoMoChokeSJ

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Source?



Source?





Was this before or after “health officials” came out in favor of months of rioting?
Source?

You mean the ones that killed thousands of people in nursing homes, or the ones that have been told their lockdowns are unconstitutional in one way or another?

Or maybe you’re just a lemming and believe everything on TV?


5% vs 1% is 5x




Labels it the democrats new hoax and it on tape many, many times downplaying the virus, claiming it is going away while numbers are climbing, and saying we have it under control. He's admitting been lying about it since day 1.



CoVid kills people of all ages in ths US. With about 20% being under 65 years old, and about 40% being under 75 years old. The CDC graphs are missing about 60000 deaths. While they killed a lot in nursing homes, they still killed a lot who weren't . 40% of 180k is 70k+ people. 2018 Flu seasons was on of the worst in the US in 30 years with 61k deaths.

Now I'm sure you'll blow this all off as fake news since it doesn't fit the ignorance agenda. The sources are out there and Google is available everywhere.. The Woodward tape is a recording of Trump and is also online.

Also, I don't watch much news. I read it from all sides. You think I'm a lemming because O don't yell fake news at everything that doesn't bounce around in my biased echo chamber? Hate to break it to you, its the other way around with fools like you burying your head in bullshit and being willfully ignorant.
 

MetalAlien

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So do we follow the science? Or do we just put this study into the "conspiracy theory" bucket?

Well it is possible that there are many holes in this study, it was censored for months on end, which I am sure has nothing to do with its conclusion and more to do with that these Danish scientist are clearly MAGA Trumpers spreading right wing conspiracies about 5G and Q.
 

CrapSandwich

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Sep 10, 2006
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Really? Lol. He called it a fucking hoax all while knowing that is was 5x deadlier than the flu.. all on tape. He's under cut the narrative of his taskforce in the same press conferences they presented in many times, attempted to manipulate cdc guidelines, Moved the RNC after they said he'd violate cdc guidelines, held large scale evemts against cdc guidlines, encouraged peiple to push back against state mask mandates and shutdowns, has repeatedly singled out democratically run states, ect, ect, ect. Seriously, you would have to be a complete moron to not think he's politicized the shit out of this.

It's not 5x deadlier than the flu. That's a gross oversimplification and it depends on a multitude of factors and how things are being defined. For the majority of Americans, it's less deadly than the flu, with it becoming deadlier around the age of 55. Even that is still an oversimplification as it's not the virus that is deadly. It's the virus in conjunction with other factors, probably things that affect blood pressure like obesity, diabetes, and reduced immune function among the elderly. Yet when we measure how deadly it is, you have to account for what it means when someone dies. While the flu is deadly to both the very young and very old, covid tends to affect the old. In the case of a baby or todller dying of the flu, you're looking at roughly 80 years of life lost. An 80 year old dying of covid means a couple or few years of life lost. This isn't to mention that flu is extremely variable and is at periods extremely deadly, mainly when novel strains emerge and wipe out a bunch of folks.

While you're correct that Trump politicized the virus and overplayed how well he did (his downplaying of it was, I think, was not a bad idea considering how many people, particularly media, were striking chords of panic), that is only half the story. The media driven panic porn surrounding covid has been vastly more destructive, on the whole. So while Trump's response is not laudable or productive, it's not as big a problem as the media complex terrifying the country and pushing what have been, in this short period of hindsight, counterproductive attitudes and mitigations.
 
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NoMoChokeSJ

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It's not 5x deadlier than the flu. That's a gross oversimplification and it depends on a multitude of factors and how things are being defined. For the majority of Americans, it's less deadly than the flu, with it becoming deadlier around the age of 55. Even that is still an oversimplification as it's not the virus that is deadly. It's the virus in conjunction with other factors, probably things that affect blood pressure like obesity, diabetes, and reduced immune function among the elderly. Yet when we measure how deadly it is, you have to account for what it means when someone dies. While the flu is deadly to both the very young and very old, covid tends to affect the old. In the case of a baby or todller dying of the flu, you're looking at roughly 80 years of life lost. An 80 year old dying of covid means a couple or few years of life lost. This isn't to mention that flu is extremely variable and is at periods extremely deadly, mainly when novel strains emerge and wipe out a bunch of folks.

While you're correct that Trump politicized the virus and overplayed how well he did (his downplaying of it was, I think, was not a bad idea considering how many people, particularly media, were striking chords of panic), that is only half the story. The media driven panic porn surrounding covid has been vastly more destructive, on the whole. So while Trump's response is not laudable or productive, it's not as big a problem as the media complex terrifying the country and pushing what have been, in this short period of hindsight, counterproductive attitudes and mitigations.
Death is death no matter how you play it. The flu doesn't normally kill unhealthy young people either, with the elderly or those with significant health issues taking the brunt. And if you compare it to different years of flu infection rates and death rates it isn't a stretch to say it has or causes a higher mortality. Take 2018-2019.. CDC estimates 39 million flue cases and 32000 deaths vs 10 months of covid here with 11.5 million cases and 250000 deaths. Thats literally 8x the deaths with 1/3 of the cases.

Plus the 1% vs 5% was part of the Trump quote, not my own.
 

Lionel Richie

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From the link in the OP:

Face masks are a plausible means to reduce transmission of respiratory viruses by minimizing the risk that respiratory droplets will reach wearers' nasal or oral mucosa.

A systematic review of observational studies reported that mask use reduced risk for SARS, Middle East respiratory syndrome, and COVID-19 by 66% overall, 70% in health care workers, and 44% in the community.

Observational evidence suggests that mask wearing mitigates SARS-CoV-2 transmission, but whether this observed association arises because masks protect uninfected wearers (protective effect) or because transmission is reduced from infected mask wearers (source control) is uncertain.

Also from the OP (I'm going to bold some key things):

The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use.

Wow, government control conspiracy exposed!
 

oagboghi2

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From the link in the OP:







Also from the OP (I'm going to bold some key things):



Wow, government control conspiracy exposed!
Hmm it’s almost like thousands of people shouldn’t have swarmed the streets and rioted for 4 months during the summer.

It’s almost like distancing, and not masks, is really the most effective way to deal with COVID, yet we have been told the exact opposite from both sides for months, and we are still being told the opposite. Wear a mask, but go to the Biden celebration party, with hundreds if not thousands of people. Should be great
 
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SaniOYOYOY

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i thought when its around february people already have discussions around wearing a mask :
It really doesnt protect you from the virus, it prevents the asymptomatic to spread it.
The mask is just to minimize risk from these asymptomatic spreading.

but then the number sises up around may/june
Yep, its just a way governments can pretend they're actually doing something to contain the spread
and this hapend lololol

maybe if we shift the paradigm, accept that virus is gonna virus and try not to fight the universe
rather we accept that virus is gonna spread and focus on controlling symptoms (healthy food, vitamins, mental health, younameit) the result might be better.

my factory have had a swab tests, we have so many of positif asymtomatic people... kuddos to management for doing their homework and supply everyone with additional vitamin and supplement every morning
 
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Sign

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5% vs 1% is 5x




Labels it the democrats new hoax and it on tape many, many times downplaying the virus, claiming it is going away while numbers are climbing, and saying we have it under control. He's admitting been lying about it since day 1.



CoVid kills people of all ages in ths US. With about 20% being under 65 years old, and about 40% being under 75 years old. The CDC graphs are missing about 60000 deaths. While they killed a lot in nursing homes, they still killed a lot who weren't . 40% of 180k is 70k+ people. 2018 Flu seasons was on of the worst in the US in 30 years with 61k deaths.

Now I'm sure you'll blow this all off as fake news since it doesn't fit the ignorance agenda. The sources are out there and Google is available everywhere.. The Woodward tape is a recording of Trump and is also online.

Also, I don't watch much news. I read it from all sides. You think I'm a lemming because O don't yell fake news at everything that doesn't bounce around in my biased echo chamber? Hate to break it to you, its the other way around with fools like you burying your head in bullshit and being willfully ignorant.

The Who has suggested 750 million infections which gets you about the death rate of . . . the flu.

Trump called Dem’s response to Covid a hoax, which it has been.

See:


That is what your masters think of Covid.

He told Woodward he tried to prevent panic. Fauci said Trump gave the information to the public he shared with Trump. In the video. What we knew of the virus changed over time. It was supposed to be the end of the world, it’s not.

I think you’re a lemming because you are repeating the same debunked talking points Dems and the media have been pushing for a while.

To;dr: It wasn’t Trump okaying months of rioting. It wasn’t Trump telling people to go to China town. It wasn’t Trump crying about shutting down travel to his best buddies China.

The only people who politicized this virus were the psychopaths on the left and the media desperate to scare people into submission.
 
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betrayal

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The study clearly shows that masks reduce the risk of infection. There can be no second opinion on this, unless you are an idiot or have problems with simple facts. Some people should just read the study and use their brains.

1) From the study:
During the study period, authorities did not recommend face mask use outside hospital settings and mask use was rare in community settings (22). This means that study participants' exposure was overwhelmingly to persons not wearing masks.

Reduction in release of virus from infected persons into the environment may be the mechanism for mitigation of transmission in communities where mask use is common or mandated, as noted in observational studies.

The scenario was simply that the test participants were in an environment where no one else was wearing a mask -> the chance of getting infected is much higher than if everyone was wearing a mask (test participants + the potentially infected persons)



2) From the study:
In a per protocol analysis that excluded participants in the mask group who reported nonadherence (7%), SARS-CoV-2 infection occurred in 40 participants (1.8%) in the mask group and 53 (2.1%) in the control group

When this analysis was repeated with multiple imputation for missing data due to loss to follow-up, it yielded similar results

This means that even in the scenario mentioned in point 1, there is a clear reduction in infections.


3) From the study:
...the findings were inconclusive and cannot definitively exclude a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection of mask wearers in such a setting.



4) From the study:
Masks have been hypothesized to reduce inoculum size (34) and could increase the likelihood that infected mask users are asymptomatic, but this hypothesis has been challenged (35).

The study even mentions that there is evidence that masks increase the chance of asymptomatic courses (by reducing the viral load).



5) From the study:
Several challenges regarding wearing disposable face masks in the community exist. These include practical aspects, such as potential incorrect wearing, reduced adherence, reduced durability of the mask depending on type of mask and occupation, and weather. Such circumstances may necessitate the use of multiple face masks during the day. In our study, participants used a mean of 1.7 masks per weekday and 1.3 per weekend day (Supplement Table 4). Wearing a face mask may be physically unpleasant, and psychological barriers and other side effects have been described (44). “Face mask policing” between citizens might reinforce use of masks but may be challenging. In addition, the wearer of a face mask may change to a less cautious behavior because of a false sense of security, as pointed out by WHO (17); accordingly, our face mask group seemed less worried (Supplement Table 4), which may explain their increased willingness to wear face masks in the future (Supplement Table 5). These challenges, including costs and availability, may reduce the efficacy of face masks to prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection.

The study even lists the problems with masks, which are avoidable but often reduce the effectiveness of masks.


6) From the study:
A published meta-analysis found no statistically significant difference in preventing influenza in health care workers between respirators (N95 [American standard] or FFP2 [European standard]) and surgical face masks (38).

This is just a bonus for the "If anything, only N95/FFP2 masks bring something" people.



Bonus -> a small selection of studies, reviews or findings that highlight the benefits of masks:

1) Absence of Apparent Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from Two Stylists After Exposure at a Hair Salon with a Universal Face Covering Policy -> https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm?s_cid=mm6928e2_w
2) SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Infection Among Attendees of an Overnight Camp -> https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6931e1.htm?s_cid=mm6931e1_w
3) Association of country-wide coronavirus mortality with demographics, testing, lockdowns, and public wearing of masks -> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.22.20109231v5
4) Community Use Of Face Masks And COVID-19: Evidence From A Natural Experiment Of State Mandates In The US -> https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818
5) Face Masks Against COVID-19: An Evidence Review -> https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v3
6) Surgical Mask Partition Reduces the Risk of Noncontact Transmission in a Golden Syrian Hamster Model for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) -> https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa644/5848814
7) Masks Do More Than Protect Others During COVID-19: Reducing the Inoculum of SARS-CoV-2 to Protect the Wearer -> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-06067-8
8) Physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis -> https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext
9) Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks -> https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
10) Low-cost measurement of face mask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets during speech -> https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083
11) Effectiveness of Surgical and Cotton Masks in Blocking SARS–CoV-2 -> https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342
12) Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19 -> https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14857
 
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NoMoChokeSJ

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Jun 3, 2014
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The Who has suggested 750 million infections which gets you about the death rate of . . . the flu.

Trump called Dem’s response to Covid a hoax, which it has been.

See:


That is what your masters think of Covid.

He told Woodward he tried to prevent panic. Fauci said Trump gave the information to the public he shared with Trump. In the video. What we knew of the virus changed over time. It was supposed to be the end of the world, it’s not.

I think you’re a lemming because you are repeating the same debunked talking points Dems and the media have been pushing for a while.

To;dr: It wasn’t Trump okaying months of rioting. It wasn’t Trump telling people to go to China town. It wasn’t Trump crying about shutting down travel to his best buddies China.

The only people who politicized this virus were the psychopaths on the left and the media desperate to scare people into submission.
I can play this game too.

Source

WHO projects the number could be that high, but documented cases is 55 million worldwide with 1.3 millions deaths, which is 2.3% Those are the number off their website. And regardless... I live in America so I look at our numbers of both CoVid and the flu, which the CDC reports annually. The numbers are there reported by an organization run by a Trump appointee and they show our CoVid deaths as much higher than any year of the flu in decades, with lower infection numbers. Simple math.

You can claim Trump tried to prevent panic but it's bullshit. His entire campaign and Presendency has been about creating panic and doubt. The fact that he still downplays the pandemic also refutes his claim. If he was concerned about not creating panic, why promote false cures, contradict his own task force, vilify Fauci, and why discourage taking the basic steps to lessen the impact. You know why... he campaigns off his economy and he was afraid it would hurt him.

And which things have been debunked? By reputable sources too, not some douche on twitter or random alt reality website or idiot on you tube. What does the medical community say? or even the CDC?

Trump wasn't okay rioting, but wasn't discouraging campaign events, or protests he believed in. They moved the RNC because they couldn't have crowds, not for public safety, but to project an image.
Remember the Liberate Minnesota, Liberate Virginia, Liberate Michigan tweets? He didn't discourage his million Maga March either, or even counter protesters. For fucks sake.. he wanted to open up sports arenas again.

Did the democrats politicize CoVid.. absolutely, but our President knowingly deceived the country about its seriousness and sowed doubt in the people that are supposed to solve the issue and create public policy. He fucked it up hard.. His moment to shine and he raw dogged the shit out of it.

You want to call me a lemming because I believe in people like doctors and virologist instead of some asshat with youtube channel or twitter following.. I'm ok with that.
 
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Elcid

Member
Jul 27, 2018
3,055
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This really burns me up because the mask pushers will never have to give up this lie, it makes too much "common sense" for the midwits. Masks counter-intuitively not only don't work better than nothing, but increase infection rates? I swear to god you can see NPCs take this input and run it for a second before they pull up an image like this in their head and then the thinking is over



BARRIERS STOP THINGS WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND
This stupid image gets circulated by these morons so much. Fucking tools. They’ve been saying it for months, these masks do dick all, if anything they increase the chances of getting shit, yet you still have dumbfucks wearing them alone in their God damn cars!
 

JimiNutz

Banned
Apr 15, 2007
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The more studies that are released, often with contradictory conclusions, the more it reinforces the fact that we still don't really know shit about Covid.

For me wearing a mask isn't a big deal so if there's a small chance it'll help me/someone else then sure I'll wear it. They are cheap to obtain and don't cause me any discomfort or breathing issues.

If someone else wants to not wear a mask though I'm also fine with that too, especially as we aren't sure if they even help.
 

CrapSandwich

former Navy SEAL
Sep 10, 2006
1,532
1,215
1,535
Death is death no matter how you play it. The flu doesn't normally kill unhealthy young people either, with the elderly or those with significant health issues taking the brunt. And if you compare it to different years of flu infection rates and death rates it isn't a stretch to say it has or causes a higher mortality. Take 2018-2019.. CDC estimates 39 million flue cases and 32000 deaths vs 10 months of covid here with 11.5 million cases and 250000 deaths. Thats literally 8x the deaths with 1/3 of the cases.

Plus the 1% vs 5% was part of the Trump quote, not my own.

I realize it was Trump's quote. I'm saying he's wrong.

And death is not death. A kid dying is way sadder than an old person. If you feel the need to quantify it, it's years of life lost. The problem with covid hysteria arises when you realize that there's already been and is going to be a huge increase in years of life lost due to the human response to the pandemic due to containment measures that were enacted without consideration for those years of life lost. Add in the fact that a lot of those measures appear to have been in vain and it doesn't make much sense.
 

Woo-Fu

incest on the subway
Jan 2, 2007
18,123
8,713
1,695
Anecdotally, has anyone gone out in public,I’m talking supermarket, mall, whatever other indoor area and seen people without masks? I live in LA and I have yet to see someone who is maskless where it’s appropriate to wear one.
Mask usage is about 20-25% around here, not counting employees at work.
 

Cracklox

Member
Jun 4, 2012
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740
Not sure I need a study to tell me they don't do shit. For a variety of reasons. But here's some simple data from the 2 biggest states in Australia.




Victoria (where I am) introduced a mask mandate on the 19th of July because of the dreaded 2nd wave. Which is still in place. When that didn't do shit though, we went into one of the harshest lockdowns in the world on Aug 3. Curfews, 5 kilometer travel restrictions, the works. Some of that is still in place now, though it has eased significantly and there's starting to be a slight sense of normality returning.

NSW (which actually has a larger population then Victoria) on the other hand has never had a mask mandate, and if pictures from recent sporting events etc or even just shots of people wandering around town, fuck all people where them. They did the customary initial lockdown that everyone did, but business has been, for the most part, back to normal there for months.

The masks are a farce and at this point I think its just an easy way for governments to identify who's falling in line with their bullshit. For the record I carry one with me but only wear it in places of business out of respect for the owners so they'll allow a transaction between us to take place, not because I think I'm saving grannies. Outside? They can fuck right off. Especially with the weather getting warmer here. I get looks all the time, but with those people I know they're as stupid as they think I am. And the local Constabulary has to ask why I'm not wearing one first before they issue me with a fine, so I'll put one on just for them, and take it back off after we part ways. That's only happened once so far.

Anyway, I could go on but I won't.

Fuck masks.
/rant
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Not sure I need a study to tell me they don't do shit. For a variety of reasons. But here's some simple data from the 2 biggest states in Australia.




Victoria (where I am) introduced a mask mandate on the 19th of July because of the dreaded 2nd wave. Which is still in place. When that didn't do shit though, we went into one of the harshest lockdowns in the world on Aug 3. Curfews, 5 kilometer travel restrictions, the works. Some of that is still in place now, though it has eased significantly and there's starting to be a slight sense of normality returning.

NSW (which actually has a larger population then Victoria) on the other hand has never had a mask mandate, and if pictures from recent sporting events etc or even just shots of people wandering around town, fuck all people where them. They did the customary initial lockdown that everyone did, but business has been, for the most part, back to normal there for months.

The masks are a farce and at this point I think its just an easy way for governments to identify who's falling in line with their bullshit. For the record I carry one with me but only wear it in places of business out of respect for the owners so they'll allow a transaction between us to take place, not because I think I'm saving grannies. Outside? They can fuck right off. Especially with the weather getting warmer here. I get looks all the time, but with those people I know they're as stupid as they think I am. And the local Constabulary has to ask why I'm not wearing one first before they issue me with a fine, so I'll put one on just for them, and take it back off after we part ways. That's only happened once so far.

Anyway, I could go on but I won't.

Fuck masks.
/rant
The thing about covid classified deaths is most importantly based on if the hospital can determine a death is actually from covid.

There many articles and videos out there that say someone dies, they do an autopsy, there's covid virus in their blood so they classify it as covid.

And any place that does it this way is a total BS way to up the totals.

90 year olds in hospice care might die any week anyway, so if they do due to terminal stage lung cancer, but end up with some covid cells in them, they might classify it as covid.

I don't know how widespread this method is and how detailed autopsy docs are when analyzing a death, but if any just look at covid cells in a bloodstream, that is the wrong way.

I can drop dead right now. I feel fine. If I have a blocked artery and covid cells in my blood, what's my cause of death? Blocked artery or covid?
 

Raven117

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Oct 5, 2015
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Is it not to protect the wearer but to help protect the “wearer” from spreading it?
 
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Clear

Deer/Dur
Feb 2, 2009
12,030
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Ah yes, The Matrix, just the thing to draw your personal "truths" from!

Fun flick, but truthfully really fucking dumb. And lets not get into the sequels where the "free" world was basically a crusty Antifa rave party!
 
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Cracklox

Member
Jun 4, 2012
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Is it not to protect the wearer but to help protect the “wearer” from spreading it?

But if the wearer doesn't have it (which I know I don't) then the point is what exactly?

Also, most people are using a useless piece of cloth anyway, so even if they did have it, the virus will still do what viruses do. I think there was a recent study that showed some 85% who had caught it had been wearing masks, so...
 

Raven117

Member
Oct 5, 2015
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But if the wearer doesn't have it (which I know I don't) then the point is what exactly?

Also, most people are using a useless piece of cloth anyway, so even if they did have it, the virus will still do what viruses do. I think there was a recent study that showed some 85% who had caught it had been wearing masks, so...
That’s the thing. It’s the spread when you don’t know you have it.

ita not the 85 percent. That’s not the number to focus on.
The question is whether a cloth or surgical mask helps an infected person from spreading it. Not whether it stops someone from getting it
 
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