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Majora's Mask 3D |OT| Remakes are a Nice Thing to Have… Heh, heh

zigg

Member
Play the song of storms by the first gossip stone at the start of that gauntlet. It will remove the destructible panel on the ceiling, no bombchus required. I'm serious.
Whoa. That never occurred to me.

The goron part is easy once you realize that you should let go of the stick and only use it for minor corrections.
I wouldn't call it easy; it's actually a bit more challenging to get going the right way because the 3DS doesn't have the octogonal gate we used to have for N64. But yeah, once you've reached terminal velocity, absolutely let go.
 

Gartooth

Member
Maybe I just suck but I found all the moon sections tedious with the exception of the Deku portion. Goron part was really hard at the beginning where you need to bounce off the chests constantly due to the controls being touchy, after that it was easy. I already talked about how I messed up with Bombchus, and the Zora part was kind of annoying since I had to reboot the game when I mistakenly completed the area before finding the piece of heart.

Play the song of storms by the first gossip stone at the start of that gauntlet. It will remove the destructible panel on the ceiling, no bombchus required. I'm serious.

I think it would have been clever if they had moved the gossip stone in that last bombchu room directly underneath the ceiling panel. That way, players could bomb the stone itself and have it rocket launch into the ceiling and open up the switch.

Seriously? I had no clue anything like that was even possible with that song.

I actually did try getting the Gossip Stone to rocket up hoping that would work. :p
 

Nerrel

Member
Seriously? I had no clue anything like that was even possible with that song.

I didn't either until I ran out of bombchus and looked it up, the game gives no indication that it's possible.

I wonder if getting the gossip stone to rocket up may still help, since it normally blocks Link from being able to back up against the door to set a bombchu straight to the opposite wall. Blowing it up may give Link a straight shot at the ceiling that would allow the explosion to be timed right. I didn't get the chance to try it since I was out of bombchus by the time I blasted the stone away.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
I spent my time with the game the past couple of days getting caught up on side quests. All set to work in the canyon and dungeon there next. So much fun stuff to do in this game.
 

Chuckie

Member
Now in Ikana canyon

That music box house was awesome. Somehow it really clicked with me.
And I LOVE that new shield!
 

Crayolan

Member
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100%'d the game N64 style, 7 cycles. That is to say, I didn't find the 7th bottle. All I know is that it involves the gorman brothers but when I'm cramming so much stuff into each cycle spending time looking around to find this bottle is kind of hard. I could have probably done it in 6 cycles though; I had a few mess-ups due to forgotten times for when events triggered (missed the bomb thieving like 3 times) and I took too long in Snowhead to be able to save Romani on the same cycle.

Overall I didn't get bothered by the changes as much as I was worried I would. I still don't approve of the save change but it doesn't affect me much anyway as a MM veteran; I only ever saved when I found new statues and at the start of every cycle anyway. Never used a feather statue, though I did reset once or twice just to check how long certain events would take. The only thing which I couldn't get over was the swimming change, and even worse, the huge lack of magic scattered around Great Bay to make up for the dumb change. I was pretty much devoid of magic for the entirety of my time doing story objectives in Great Bay and it was annoying as hell. It was great when I finally got the Chateau Romani, which I then used ASAP every cycle after to avoid having to deal with the terrible swimming altogether. That definitely slowed down that specific cycle by a lot.

As for the bosses (spoilers, obviously):

Goht: I don't mind his changes much because it's pretty much the same fight. I can't say it's any worse, but I do still prefer the original because the feeling of rolling into Goht repeatedly when you knock it down was really satisfying in the originals, but can't be done in the remake.

Gyorg: Not that bad, but annoying. The first phase is okay but gets boring quickly without having to jump in to damage it. The second phase is just a ton of waiting for the boss to line itself up with the bombs so you can damage it. I don't mind the concept of the fight, I just hate the waiting. A downgrade from the original.

Twinmold: I like what they were going for here but hate the execution. Fighting the blue worm is okay but I feel like there should have been another step to damage it. As it is I can kill the blue worm without ever moving. This part of the fight reminded me a lot of Phalanx from Shadow of the Colossus, so it might have been cool if you climbed on top of it when it was down then used the Giants Mask to weigh it down and crush it or something like that. Fighting the red worm sucks. The fight is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too fucking long and your attacks as a giant aren't very accurate. I constantly felt like I was hitting his spawns but missed most of the time. I like how you can roll over those things though. I also had a pretty good laugh seeing Link spin the worm around and slam it on the ground, followed by a "HAAAA!" But after the first 2 hits they give to you it takes way too long and gets dull really quick.

Unfortunately with the boss changes the devs seem to forget that the player is on a timer. They don't have all the time in the world to dispatch a boss. Except for Goht, all the bosses were changed to be much longer, even if you know what you're doing, and that just doesn't work in MM. They also all involve a lot of waiting (again, except for Goht), which is equally annoying. In the original, boss fights moved as fast you were able to make them move, but in MM3D they're always slow unless the RNG is on your side.
 

ffdgh

Member
...Are ice arrows supposed to act like they originally did in the n64 version in gyorg's boss room or is that an oversight?
 

gerudoman

Member
Does beating the Stone Tower temple affect Ikana in some form or can I go back to the first day? I liked the new Twinmold fight but I can't imagine myself playing it more than once.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
38 hours and 1 second on the clock, 100 percent complete file.

I'm going to be having nightmares about trading sequences for weeks.
 

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Just got the heart piece from the Beaver Race. It was.. really easy. I feel like the swimming controls actually giving you a lot of control. The only issue is if you hit the ring in a way that brings you to a stop. But I was easily completing the 1:50 races with 10-15 seconds to spare. Like I said a ways back, I hated the swimming controls at first in the Great Bay Temple, but while completing the temple I came to understand them much more.
 

-Tanooki-

Neo Member
I hope I can find replies to this post of mine considering how hopping this site is.

I got Ocarina of Time 3D a little over a week ago for an early b'day gift and I had this back when it first came out but got rid of it because the 3D drove me nuts on the system. With the New3DS in hand I'm enjoying it. I knew this was out here, but to be candid I hated the games guts on the N64 and have never been able to come back to play it since, last was 2 years ago when I found one cheap.

The time factor was always a huge turn off because I'd lose my progress, and my crap too if I didn't bank it which was just the ultimate buzz kill. I thought the general atmosphere of the game was fine, not a big fan of the so many fluff masks there was.

The point though is that I'm not willing to write this game off, yet. I know there were supposedly quite a few changes and enhancements to make the experience less grating and I was curious how true that was and how that has applied to you who have played enough of crazily may have finished it already.
 

-Tanooki-

Neo Member
No I never did learn or find the Inverse Time song. Unlike Ocarina where I got the free guide from NP magazine resubscribing I never had one for MM so I went in cold. I had a few tunes, but not that one. My usual experience would be to plot around town, then head outside and explore some. Eventually in/out with time being reset before the moon hit, I'd start over fresh more or less. I got to where I can vaguely recall clearing some boulders in one area and then making a move on the dungeon, but I never could get enough in game time to take down the damn thing before everything got all reset on me. I got infuriated with the game and ended up shelving it probably 5 years before selling it barely pecking at it in between. I owned it probably 2-3x since on N64 again, and I was still feeling some history and never was motivated to push it as far as I did the first time.
 

zigg

Member
The N64 game was so long ago, I've forgotten what prompted me to learn it. Maybe I just saw the scarecrow and figured I'd best talk to him since he was so useful in Ocarina.

Regardless, not knowing Inverse SoT did break a few people. It seems to me that if you can get over your past frustration with the game, knowing it now would solve your problem.
 

Ants

Member
Majora's Mask suffers a lot from age, not necessarily due to bad game design (although it does have some of that) but due to a change in how games are played as a whole. MM is predicated on the idea you will play it obsessively, as though it is the one game you will get this year, and will intimately learn the lives of every single NPC at all times of the 3-day cycle.

This means that it also assumes you will talk to the Scarecrow more than once, who will certainly pique your interest with his "song that allows you to manipulate the flow of time". However, I think modern game design has taught players that if interacting with something once doesn't do anything, there's no reason to do it again unless the game prompts you to.

All this being said. . . do the Bombers tell you to talk to the Scarecrow? With the added handholding, I would think that would be one of the first things to tell new players.
 

TheMoon

Member
All this being said. . . do the Bombers tell you to talk to the Scarecrow? With the added handholding, I would think that would be one of the first things to tell new players.

Yes, every single time you talk to a Bomber they end the conversation by telling you about it:

->

To all of those saying you're not told about the inverted song of time ...

wxu0p.jpg


That's the first Bomber kid I'm talking to after the introduction cycle. The HMS tells you they got the scoop on stuff so if you don't talk to them for hints it's your own fault if you never learn about the inverted song of time^^

And Scarecrow still mentions it, too the first time to talk to him in the shop.

pdp5p.jpg
Quoting myself. Just talked to another two Bombers. They remind you EVERY TIME that the scarecrow has a song to teach you. I assume they will only stop after you learned it finally.

I remember Anth0ny going on and on about this in the review thread how they needed to make this clear. I think they did their part without doing what everyone always wants them not to do (
holding your hand and explicitly telling you
). The irony.
 
Finally got 100% yesterday, had to use a guide for a few things...

postman's minigame. didn't know what time it was
gorman sidequest. I knew there was something about him but didn't know where to start it
hand in the toilets, didn't know the time
hidden dungeon in ikana, bomber's rumor didn't help me, never though of going there
 

zigg

Member
Yes, every single time you talk to a Bomber they end the conversation by telling you about it:
But in the N64 game, I think it was only the scarecrow that told you about it. The Bombers alerting you to it is one of the improvements in the 3DS version, I think.

hidden dungeon in ikana, bomber's rumor didn't help me, never though of going there
You mean the challenge area? I dunno if I'd call that a dungeon, heh.
 
Alright just finished this game.

Clocked in close to 40hours, 100% run. 1st time playing through Majora's Mask ever.

My thoughts:While MM may not be the biggest Zelda game, nor the best designed or paced one, it makes up for that with brilliant world-building and characterization. The leading up to impending doom changes the perspectives of NPCs as you go on through the 3 day cycle. It really gives off the sense of what's happening in the background as so many things are happening at once that you can't see and the only way to experience all of them is with the 3 day cycle. Of all the Zelda worlds, this felt the more "real" and the most "alive" to me, experiencing all the characters individual struggles within the story. Great writing work here.

Honestly this game wasn't as dark as some people made it out to be, but it's the implications that really get me. Your hard work is reset each cycle, you get really close to completing a major event only having to start over because of time issues or failure (Man that Kafei mask fail got to me). I did really enjoy the bombers and how they constantly gave you hints. Thanks to them this is the 1st Zelda I 100%.

Dungeons aren't the greatest but I'd like to give a special shout out to the Stone Tower Temple. A lot of thought went into that and the inversion mechanics is right up there with Timeshift Stones in terms of creativity. I just with I didn't have to play Elegy so many times.

But seriously though, great Zelda game. It's very different from Ocarina but I enjoyed it almost as much. Still gotta use the Deity Mask vs bosses.

9/10.
 

ShadowOwl

Member
Ugh, just tried to finish the water temple.

I reached the boss with 14 fairies and a few hours left. I died during the fight (second phase) and respawned in the entrance hall. I hadn't enough time left for another attempt,
picked up the 15th fairy right there and tried to reach the great fairy hall.
And then I ran out of time... so, now it's back to the temple collecting all fairies and fighting the boss again. *sigh*
 
Shiiiiiiiiiiittttt!

I turned the game off after that stupid bird flew off with one of my bottles and I ended up losing about an hour of progress. D:

For some reason I thought the game saved automatically after you play the Song of Time and return to the first day.
 

mrkgoo

Member
You can. All you need to do is just walk up to the save statue afterwards and you're set.
Obviously.

I know it's not a deal breaker but it's like putting a save option on a third or fourth level menu screen. Not insurmountable and only seconds longer to execute, but annoying nevertheless.
 
I'm almost willing to go to the extent of saying the underwater Zora controls are almost game breaking. The glitching, the camera, the controls. Everything is absolutely miserable when it comes to using this fucking mask. Fuck this game.
 

braves01

Banned
I'm almost willing to go to the extent of saying the underwater Zora controls are almost game breaking. The glitching, the camera, the controls. Everything is absolutely miserable when it comes to using this fucking mask. Fuck this game.

Yeah it sucks. The whole ocean area is the nadir of the game.
 

Mistle

Member
I had no problems with Zora controls. Did both beaver races on second try and had no problems with water temple boss. I dunno. I guess I preferred the original but it didn't bother me a whole lot.

On a different note, the postman's run animation when you
set him free
is the greatest thing ever.
 

Adam Prime

hates soccer, is Mexican
This is my first time playing the game, I'm 30 years old and just passed by every Zelda game growing up after Zelda 1.

I'm only two hours in and I LOVE this game already. It's so fucking weird. So weird. This is the Zelda game I've needed. I love the Bomber's notebook. The thing I hate the MOST about Zelda games is the obscure hints about what you're supposed to do next. I understand THAT'S THE POINT of the entire series, so that's the reason why the series is not for me.

The Bomber's Notebook makes me feel very very engaged and not worried about "missing something" and I can play this game at my own pace without the constant need to look at a guide.
 
Uuuuggh Ikana Canyon is hard as balls. I've completely forgotten what to do as well. This is gonna take a while I can tell, because noting's jogging my memory despite my exploration.
 

Crayolan

Member
Übermatik;155977582 said:
Uuuuggh Ikana Canyon is hard as balls. I've completely forgotten what to do as well. This is gonna take a while I can tell, because noting's jogging my memory despite my exploration.

Start in the graveyard.
 

Nerrel

Member
I think MM3D is completely in "special edition" territory. It looks pretty and is mostly improved, but the changes for the worse undermine everything good. Removing the song of time save takes all the impact out of the end of cycle. Locking in all your progress at once was cathartic and gratifying, and that cycle of tension and relief gave the game a rhythm and structure that's missing in the remake.

Great Bay is broken in MM3D. I Zora swam to the fortress only to run out of magic before getting inside, then couldn't activate the lens of truth to find the soldier because there isn't a single magic pot inside. And there aren't any out in the ocean. And there aren't any on the beach. I was pissed at having to warp back to clock town to buy a green potion, and I've read comments from a lot of other people who had the same experience.

I figured we'd still be able to Zora swim to get around, just with the hassle of finding pots and putting up with the whirring noise, but they didn't even allow that. They force the player to slow swim everywhere and only use the Zora swim for attacking. What the hell is the point? Why even keep the fast swimming in? You obviously can't use it to travel. It's not necessary to have a completely different set of swimming physics just to electrocute enemies or break barriers. Aside from the beaver race, there's literally not a single time the ability to swim like a dolphin serves a purpose for anything. They may as well have just cut it altogether to avoid game breaking magic drainage scenarios like the one I described.


The worst part may be that the slow speed didn't even work in the water temple. It's never sharp enough to maneuver the right angle turns, it's not strong enough to fight against the currents, and the camera seldom agrees with Link's movement. I ended up holding down R to Zora swim through the temple and found it way more graceful and comfortable. What a complete fucking waste of a great mechanic.


Aonuma's comments are frustrating since it's clear that he didn't think it through much and that he still thinks the change is great:
A lot of people who were big fans may have been playing that continuously for 15 years, returning to it, but I hadn’t really spent a lot of time playing the game over and over in that 15 year period. I just came back to it and suddenly I had this fresh experience which made me think, wow, I really want to work on how swimming is implemented here. So we thought about it and came up with a solution and threw that into the game. The only thing that stands out to me is that I really should’ve come up with the solution earlier.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/02/17/9-things-you-didnt-know-about-zelda-majoras-mask-3ds?page=2
Thank god he didn't come up with it earlier. We have at least one version of Great Bay that isn't shitty.

I think I'll play the N64 version from now on. It's going to be hard going back to those visuals, but it's almost all gains on the gameplay side of things. I easily can live without fishing.

[/hissy fit]
 

Dice//

Banned
Of all changes they should have "cleared out" tool buttons for mask transformations and mapped special mask-specific skills to the freed-up buttons. Not like you're gonna be using bombs as a deku scrub afterall.

Because yeah, the fact there's no "fast swim" option without either using up the magic meter or waiting for it to dry up is SOOoooooo dumb.

And hey, let's map BOTH START AND SELECT to the bombers notebook. Because you'll use that more than swamp masks or items, right?
 

I completely agree.

I'm probably going to get flak for this, but I really want to see Aonuma work on a series other than Zelda. I just don't like the direction he's taken the series in. The first Zelda game I've loved in a long time (since WW), is ALBW, and apparently Miyamoto was more directly involved in that. The majority of Aonuma's decisions just don't gel with me.
 
This is my first time playing the game, I'm 30 years old and just passed by every Zelda game growing up after Zelda 1.

I'm only two hours in and I LOVE this game already. It's so fucking weird. So weird. This is the Zelda game I've needed. I love the Bomber's notebook. The thing I hate the MOST about Zelda games is the obscure hints about what you're supposed to do next. I understand THAT'S THE POINT of the entire series, so that's the reason why the series is not for me.

The Bomber's Notebook makes me feel very very engaged and not worried about "missing something" and I can play this game at my own pace without the constant need to look at a guide.
Glad you're enjoying it! ^_^ Also, if some of the stuff in the Bomber's Notebook does start feeling kind of cryptic, don't forget about the Sheikah Stone in the Clock Tower, near the Happy Mask Salesman which will also give it's own set of hints for stuff to help point you in the right direction.
 

Tookay

Member
I completely agree.

I'm probably going to get flak for this, but I really want to see Aonuma work on a series other than Zelda. I just don't like the direction he's taken the series in. The first Zelda game I've loved in a long time (since WW), is ALBW, and apparently Miyamoto was more directly involved in that. The majority of Aonuma's decisions just don't gel with me.

I don't think Miyamoto was involved much at all from a gameplay standpoint.
 

rekameohs

Banned
Of all changes they should have "cleared out" tool buttons for mask transformations and mapped special mask-specific skills to the freed-up buttons. Not like you're gonna be using bombs as a deku scrub afterall.

Because yeah, the fact there's no "fast swim" option without either using up the magic meter or waiting for it to dry up is SOOoooooo dumb.

And hey, let's map BOTH START AND SELECT to the bombers notebook. Because you'll use that more than swamp masks or items, right?
Every single 3DS game has select and start mapped to the same command, for some reason. It's only there for DS compatibility. The New 3DS browser distinguishes the two, also.
 

Chuckie

Member
Finished it!

While at first I wasn't really feeling it in the latter part it started to click more and more.
The whole Ikana section was awesome and I loved the long sidequest
Anju and Kafei. Although to be honest I needed some pointers from a walkthrough for that.
Majora's Mask/Incarnation/Wraith was way too easy. I guess you're supposed to fight that without Fierce Deity Mask :p

While not my favorite Zelda, I do think it is Top 3!
 

TheMoon

Member
I completely agree.

I'm probably going to get flak for this, but I really want to see Aonuma work on a series other than Zelda. I just don't like the direction he's taken the series in. The first Zelda game I've loved in a long time (since WW), is ALBW, and apparently Miyamoto was more directly involved in that. The majority of Aonuma's decisions just don't gel with me.
I don't think Miyamoto was involved much at all from a gameplay standpoint.

I thought I read that he was? I could be totally wrong though.

I think this is another case of "I actually don't know who had what role" with Zelda games again. Miyamoto wasn't involved with ALBW at all beyond his typical role as EAD Overlord. Who you want to look at are the directors of the games. Aonuma isn't directing any Zelda games anymore. TP was his last (sharing directing duties with a bunch of others and only stepping in later to save the day).

Hiromasa Shikata - Director
Kentaro Tominaga - Assistant Director / Lead Planner
Shiro Mouri - Assistant-Director / Lead Programmer

^these are the main people to look at if you like ALBW. Obviously Aonuma is overseeing everything and signing off on everything but those are the people who come up with the ideas generally.

Hiroyuki Kuwata - Planning Director | Grezzo
Katsumi Kuga - Planning Director | Grezzo

^these are the people to look at with MM3D.

I've seen people go with the default setting of "Aonuma is always being interviewed so he's always the main creative dude/director." It kinda bothers me.
 
Yeah MM3D would be perfect without :
-the fucking zora swimming, who the fuck thought that was good
-gyorg remake, what a pile of garbage
-twinmold remake, long as hell
 

zigg

Member
I still consider the swimming changes (mostly, the bit about how there's no longer a push-off, which pretty much always meant slamming into a wall) a net win, though I sympathize with those that ran out their magic on the way to the fortress.

I also wonder how much slower it really is. Isn't the beaver race time limit exactly the same as the N64 game?
 
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