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Majority of Americans now support Trump's impeachment

Hotspurr

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In actuality its not even worth to respond to stuff like this especially not when it has the aura of "we know better" around it sorry doesnt fly anymore not after the last two years of russia collusion conspiracy.
And what did you do afterwards? Instead of looking at the people who lied to you, you instead choose to continue to go after people who have been slandered for the last years by the same lies.
This is what i mean when i say its not even worth responding or arguing anymore since people like you already didnt change your mind even after you found out you got played for 2 years... so what am i gonna say that changes anything? lol

Except in this case you have hard evidence and admission by the president himself. Can you dispute these facts:

1) Trump asked Ukraine to look into Biden/son
2) Aid already approved was withheld around the same time

Now wether you believe there is a connection or if it's shady is up to you, but I don't see how anyone can dismiss this as more "fake news".

And Trump got plenty of rightful flak from the media about his shady dealings, just a few notable examples based on hard evidence:

1) Trump University was a scam
2) Trump kept a very close relationship with his corrupt lawyer for many years (unless you think he was oblivious to Cohen's dealings)
3) Trump openly intimidated whistleblowers by suggesting that they would deal with them as with spies in the old days (execution)

The media blew Russia and Kavanaugh way out of proportion. The media also gets plenty right. You just have to put the extra leg work to figure out what is fake news and what can be backed up.
 

Moneal

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Except in this case you have hard evidence and admission by the president himself. Can you dispute these facts:

1) Trump asked Ukraine to look into Biden/son
2) Aid already approved was withheld around the same time

Now wether you believe there is a connection or if it's shady is up to you, but I don't see how anyone can dismiss this as more "fake news".

And Trump got plenty of rightful flak from the media about his shady dealings, just a few notable examples based on hard evidence:

1) Trump University was a scam
2) Trump kept a very close relationship with his corrupt lawyer for many years (unless you think he was oblivious to Cohen's dealings)
3) Trump openly intimidated whistleblowers by suggesting that they would deal with them as with spies in the old days (execution)

The media blew Russia and Kavanaugh way out of proportion. The media also gets plenty right. You just have to put the extra leg work to figure out what is fake news and what can be backed up.
The media couldn't even do basic shit, like confirm whether a guy was actually an advisor to the Ukrainian President, before running with his bullshit story he was privy to quid pro quo.

I like how you didn't add the fact that Ukraine denied knowing about the funds being withheld untl a month later. Hard to pressure someone to do something by withholding money when they don't know the money is going to be withheld.
 
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Bolivar687

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I like how you didn't add the fact that Ukraine denied knowing about the funds being withheld untl a month later. Hard to pressure someone to do something by withholding money when they don't know the money is going to be withheld.

 

Hotspurr

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The media couldn't even do basic shit, like confirm whether a guy was actually an advisor to the Ukrainian President, before running with his bullshit story he was privy to quid pro quo.

I like how you didn't add the fact that Ukraine denied knowing about the funds being withheld untl a month later. Hard to pressure someone to do something by withholding money when they don't know the money is going to be withheld.

They may not have known during the July phone call, but they found out a month later, before it was released later in Sept. The reasons given for the delay are cryptic at best, especially since it had already been reviewed and approved. His deranged buddy Rudy was also over there trying to dig up dirt on the Bidens - are you starting to see any connections?

There is of course no smoking gun yet, otherwise Trump would be gone by now. But the fact that he's trying to shut this down hard where with Russia he didn't seem to care all that much, already suggests this is potentially quite serious as he's been caught with his pants down.
 
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Whitesnake

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Keep pushing that narrative. It's satisfactory to see Trash supporters push his insecurities (going out of his way to paint himself for the sake of appearance) out in the open.

Bruh what narrative? That orange man is, inded, bad?
 

DeafTourette

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Why not just elect him out? Watch him get a second term because the Dem candidates can't get air time because of this crap.
 
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Patriots7

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In actuality its not even worth to respond to stuff like this especially not when it has the aura of "we know better" around it sorry doesnt fly anymore not after the last two years of russia collusion conspiracy.
And what did you do afterwards? Instead of looking at the people who lied to you, you instead choose to continue to go after people who have been slandered for the last years by the same lies.
This is what i mean when i say its not even worth responding or arguing anymore since people like you already didnt change your mind even after you found out you got played for 2 years... so what am i gonna say that changes anything? lol
Change my mind about what?

The fact that you are saying "I got played" implies that, as I mentioned, you're not willing to have an objective discussion about the Mueller report outside of half-truths parroted by the president and his supporters.

So yeah. It's not worth either of our time to retread tired conversations. Once he's impeached, yet spared from removal by McConnell, and that existential threat is over, my hope is that we'll be able to have better conversations about the upcoming election now that there's no immediate need to defend Trump.

Until that time, I'm all in on his top hits**!

"No collision! No obstruction! It was a perfect call! Presidential harassment! Witch Hunt! Illegitimate inquiry! Kangaroo court!"

**Because it needs to be restated. I have no dog in the political fight. I don't like any of the Democratic front-runners. I don't like any of the Republican challengers. I'm as apolitical as they come.
 
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Moneal

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They may not have known during the July phone call, but they found out a month later, before it was released later in Sept. The reasons given for the delay are cryptic at best, especially since it had already been reviewed and approved. His deranged buddy Rudy was also over there trying to dig up dirt on the Bidens - are you starting to see any connections?

There is of course no smoking gun yet, otherwise Trump would be gone by now. But the fact that he's trying to shut this down hard where with Russia he didn't seem to care all that much, already suggests this is potentially quite serious as he's been caught with his pants down.
Yep trying to shut it down by releasing the actual info from the call. Ukraine said it was nothing. Everyone involved said nope nothing. If Ukraine was saying they were shaken down, then there might be some connections to see, but as it stands, again nothing. If there was pressure and withholding of money, what reason would the Ukrainians have to deny it? They would be able to get rid of a shake down artist ,and endear themselves with the Dems,who would be in control going forward. I don't see the positive in them going along with Trump and lying. It would just open themselves up for more strong-arming by this administration in the future.
 

Hotspurr

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Yep trying to shut it down by releasing the actual info from the call. Ukraine said it was nothing. Everyone involved said nope nothing. If Ukraine was saying they were shaken down, then there might be some connections to see, but as it stands, again nothing. If there was pressure and withholding of money, what reason would the Ukrainians have to deny it? They would be able to get rid of a shake down artist ,and endear themselves with the Dems,who would be in control going forward. I don't see the positive in them going along with Trump and lying. It would just open themselves up for more strong-arming by this administration in the future.

Ukraine is in a tough spot right now and this administration has been helping them out substantially. If they were to sour the relations there is no telling on how it would all play out and for how long. Also, what are people expecting to find, Trump calling the president and saying "hey give me dirt on Biden or else I will not send you money". If it wasn't for the sharpie incident I would say he's not dumb enough to do that, but who knows. Lucky for him he didn't go that far, but I suppose more witnesses and accounts need to be heard to get the full picture.
 

llien

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Polls were accurate, she won the popular vote, which is what they predicted.
That's not what they predicted, as predictions were per state.

It is an effect of "people hidnig true position" and it often happens in countries with young democracies.
Then we had the same affect in Australia, with conservative voters hiding their opinions.
 

Woo-Fu

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Couple of Giuliani's associates arrested for campaign finance issues Wednesday, might be time to throw Rudy under the bus, Donald. Then again, there might not be much space left under the bus unless it has been moving at high speed this entire time.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Couple of Giuliani's associates arrested for campaign finance issues Wednesday, might be time to throw Rudy under the bus, Donald. Then again, there might not be much space left under the bus unless it has been moving at high speed this entire time.

Political warfare in full effect. Election season, woo!
 
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DeepEnigma

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Funny how this just pops up completely out of nowhere, isn't it?

Also funny how no arrests were made for this:


Rules for thee, not for me.

Or The Squad, or every damned crooked politician on the left. They are not squeaky clean either, they just have more control in the letter agencies for now, in their coup attempts.
 
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Hotspurr

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TDS is an actual brain disease at this point.

Are you referring to Trump Derangement Syndrome or Trump Defense Syndrome?

Polls can be inaccurate, but based on an NYT article shared earlier in this thread, they got most states close or bang on except Florida, NC and Michigan, the latter being the biggest surprise.
 

#Phonepunk#

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So a bullshit poll that has no impact on anything and will be irrelevant the instant another poll comes out said something. Good for them
 
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cubicle47b

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He was in great shape politically right after the Mueller hearing and then he immediately blew it. Good job, asshole.
 

OSC

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Polls were accurate, she won the popular vote, which is what they predicted.
polls said like 99% chance of winning the election not the popular vote, as that was a given given california. Without california the rest of the nation voted primarily for Trump iirc, even in popular. California blocked investigation into voter fraud, does not have independent audits, iirc, and gives illegals ids.


Trump's actions of leveraging aid to Ukraine for dirt on Biden (perhaps you don't suspect this was the case at all?). I

Biden seemed to have dangled aid in exchange for blocking a corruption investigation that may have involved his son. Biden even bragged about holding the country hostage with U.S aid, iirc. Trump merely asked to reopen that investigation, iirc.


Schiff made the transcript reading of Trump quid pro quo up, he later clarified it was satire or parody, but in reality it was slander.

The transcript shows no such exchange of aid offer by Trump, unlike Biden.

uninformed americans might mistake his parody reading in a serious tone, for a reading of a real transcript. This is purposely misleading americans that may not have the time to learn it was all made up falsehoods.
Lucky for him he didn't go that far, but I suppose more witnesses and accounts need to be heard to get the full picture.
if Trump didn't communicate a quid pro quo in any manner explicit or implicit they are not psychic, and imaginary quid pro quos are not actual quid pro quos.

You need proper cause for an investigation. This is the second time the democrats try to dig dirt and attempt a coup without any proper justification. The dossier used as justification for russiagate was paid propaganda from the opposition and it was known.
 
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Hotspurr

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There it is folks. Trying to hide behind "civility" and good faith debate. We all know which side you're on,

ORANGE MAN BAD

Dude what sides? Your damn country has some of the worst social problems around healthcare, education and class disparity in the first world. The population is glued to a 24 hour news cycle due to an idiotic president and an often deranged opposition. People are politically divided and at each other's throats while greedy corporations amass power and are laughing all the way to the bank. I just don't understand why you continue to defend this shmuck. At the very least there are some OK and better democratic options. Even Romney would do well to run against him. Or you know, anyone who doesn't act like a petty and irresponsible child.
 

dolabla

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Dude what sides? Your damn country has some of the worst social problems around healthcare, education and class disparity in the first world. The population is glued to a 24 hour news cycle due to an idiotic president and an often deranged opposition. People are politically divided and at each other's throats while greedy corporations amass power and are laughing all the way to the bank. I just don't understand why you continue to defend this shmuck. At the very least there are some OK and better democratic options. Even Romney would do well to run against him. Or you know, anyone who doesn't act like a petty and irresponsible child.

Thanks for the lecture.

Still voting Trump with a big ass grin on my face while screechers such as yourself screech:

 

DeepEnigma

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Thanks for the lecture.

Still voting Trump with a big ass grin on my face while screechers such as yourself screech:


If the US ever should cut all the funding and aide they give other first world countries, those social programs there would collapse in the matter of months if not weeks.

Maybe we should do that, and watch the hubris get knocked down a peg by those privileged critics? :pie_thinking:
 
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NickFire

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That's not what they predicted, as predictions were per state.

It is an effect of "people hidnig true position" and it often happens in countries with young democracies.
Then we had the same affect in Australia, with conservative voters hiding their opinions.
I get what you are saying, and tend to agree. I think the issues with pre-election polling were three things: 1) the reliance on aggregators that incorrectly suggested the election was pre-ordained; 2) the non-stop interjection of partisan analysis, both written or oral, when discussing polls; 3) the silent voters and people afraid to say anything that went against the "permissible public opinion."
 

CeroFrio996

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I think the problem with all this is not the quid pro quo. I think it's pretty reasonable to say that Trump was withholding that aid to get the Ukraine to look into biden, even if he didn't say that part out loud. But even then it's not inherently wrong to have done that. You have to prove that his intent was to affect the outcome of the 2020 elections.

And I say this as someone who would revel in seeing Trump removed from office. I honestly think hes not fit for office.
 

cryptoadam

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I am just curious, but all the folks yelling "orange man bad" as a counter argument, do you not see anything wrong with Trump's actions of leveraging aid to Ukraine for dirt on Biden (perhaps you don't suspect this was the case at all?). I understand you think it was Trump weeding out corruption, but is that how these things are done? Does a sitting president asking a foreign leaders to investigate his major opponent's son's involvement in some gas company reasonable? Biden admitted to whatever he did publicly, so it's not like he was hiding anything.

I've seen people defend trump for falsifying the hurricane map with a sharpie, though I don't think people here are that far gone. Just trying to see where some of you draw the line.

Don't see anything wrong with Trump asking Ukraine to work with the AG and to verify Shokins sworn testimoney under threat of perjury that he was fired because of Biden and his investigation into Burisma/Hunter. Consider it was 1 minute out of a 30 minute call and nothing ever happened after wards its a nothing burger.

Add in the fact that the Dems essentially worked with the Ukraine and Russians to undermine Trumps campaign and spy on him its rich coming from them to call for impeachment. Doubley so since you can find tons of clips and statements from most of the Dems that were against Bills impeachment. Not hard to find a Pelosi clip talking about how shit impeaching Bill was.

It would be easier to take them seriously if they weren't such hypocrites and have done everything they accuse Trump of doing. They just don't like that the shoe is on the other foot.
 
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Joe T.

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When you selectively omit key facts from a story it becomes very easy to twist it into something it's not. The media does this all the time, even with stories completely detached from politics. It happened with Russian collusion because they didn't give the foundation of that story the attention it deserved. That allowed them to create a more compelling narrative that made their audience eager to return for more details - money, basically.

It's the exact same thing with Ukraine. Why are people so eager to fall for it? Chances are because they voted for Hillary and/or were sold on the idea that Trump didn't deserve to be president, so the burden of proof isn't as high for them as it would be if this story was being thrown at a politician they respected. The years of preceding negative media coverage certainly didn't help, "If he did all that then surely he'd be capable of this."

How many times have the Dems and the [media misled or lied to you about Trump over the last 3-4 years? If your answer is never or a number that can be counted on one hand then I've found a worthwhile topic of discussion. Adam Schiff isn't trustworthy and he has only himself to blame. Notice how Jerry Nadler is no longer the face of impeachment? He destroyed his credibility, too and is now facing the first serious primary challenge in 27 years.
 

Hotspurr

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Don't see anything wrong with Trump asking Ukraine to work with the AG and to verify Shokins sworn testimoney under threat of perjury that he was fired because of Biden and his investigation into Burisma/Hunter. Consider it was 1 minute out of a 30 minute call and nothing ever happened after wards its a nothing burger.

Add in the fact that the Dems essentially worked with the Ukraine and Russians to undermine Trumps campaign and spy on him its rich coming from them to call for impeachment. Doubley so since you can find tons of clips and statements from most of the Dems that were against Bills impeachment. Not hard to find a Pelosi clip talking about how shit impeaching Bill was.

It would be easier to take them seriously if they weren't such hypocrites and have done everything they accuse Trump of doing. They just don't like that the shoe is on the other foot.
So basically, one side is "orange man bad" the other side is "Democrats bad", facts don't matter anymore regardless of the situation.


When you selectively omit key facts from a story it becomes very easy to twist it into something it's not. The media does this all the time, even with stories completely detached from politics. It happened with Russian collusion because they didn't give the foundation of that story the attention it deserved. That allowed them to create a more compelling narrative that made their audience eager to return for more details - money, basically.

It's the exact same thing with Ukraine. Why are people so eager to fall for it? Chances are because they voted for Hillary and/or were sold on the idea that Trump didn't deserve to be president, so the burden of proof isn't as high for them as it would be if this story was being thrown at a politician they respected. The years of preceding negative media coverage certainly didn't help, "If he did all that then surely he'd be capable of this."

How many times have the Dems and the [media misled or lied to you about Trump over the last 3-4 years? If your answer is never or a number that can be counted on one hand then I've found a worthwhile topic of discussion. Adam Schiff isn't trustworthy and he has only himself to blame. Notice how Jerry Nadler is no longer the face of impeachment? He destroyed his credibility, too and is now facing the first serious primary challenge in 27 years.

The Russia thing was mostly driven by the fake golden shower dossier, or so I thought. People also fell for "pizza gate" that was also based on nonesense. The media will twist things to get ratings. The sky is also blue.

Not every single person who is opposed to Trump is doing it because they are butthurt about the election. Likewise not every person buys the media hysteria. Believe it or not, there are people who try to discern the BS from the facts, and no one side is always at fault or always right. Trump has done PLENTY of harmful and moronic things for many people to have a low opinion of him, even without the media's help. It is easy to take the high ground and say "oh you're just brainwashed by CNN" as an easy way to dismiss someone. The leftists do the same to Trump supporters by calling them racist idiots. Don't kid yourself, you're playing the same game you're just not aware of it.
 

Joe T.

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The Russia thing was mostly driven by the fake golden shower dossier, or so I thought. People also fell for "pizza gate" that was also based on nonesense. The media will twist things to get ratings. The sky is also blue.

Not every single person who is opposed to Trump is doing it because they are butthurt about the election. Likewise not every person buys the media hysteria. Believe it or not, there are people who try to discern the BS from the facts, and no one side is always at fault or always right. Trump has done PLENTY of harmful and moronic things for many people to have a low opinion of him, even without the media's help. It is easy to take the high ground and say "oh you're just brainwashed by CNN" as an easy way to dismiss someone. The leftists do the same to Trump supporters by calling them racist idiots. Don't kid yourself, you're playing the same game you're just not aware of it.

Not every single person opposed to Trump is butthurt about the election, but the Democrats are. Need we go over Schiff's history?
 

cryptoadam

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So basically, one side is "orange man bad" the other side is "Democrats bad", facts don't matter anymore regardless of the situation.

Well fact is there was no quid pro quo. Fact is that Shokin testified under oath that the President of Ukraine told him he was fired because of Biden and Burisma investigation. Fact is AG Barr has been investigating the origins of the Russian Hoax. Fact is that a Ukranina court found that the Ukraine did interefere in 2016 and spread info about Trump and leaked the black ledger. So I see plenty of facts that matter.

What isn't a fact is that Biden is the DNC nominee and that any Ukraninan investigation will benefit Trump politically. If HRC decided to run tomorrow does that mean no Epstein/Bill connection could be investigated because it might benefit Trump?
 

Hotspurr

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Well fact is there was no quid pro quo. Fact is that Shokin testified under oath that the President of Ukraine told him he was fired because of Biden and Burisma investigation. Fact is AG Barr has been investigating the origins of the Russian Hoax. Fact is that a Ukranina court found that the Ukraine did interefere in 2016 and spread info about Trump and leaked the black ledger. So I see plenty of facts that matter.

What isn't a fact is that Biden is the DNC nominee and that any Ukraninan investigation will benefit Trump politically. If HRC decided to run tomorrow does that mean no Epstein/Bill connection could be investigated because it might benefit Trump?

The quid pro quo is yet to be decided. The point here is that the president may have abused his power. If they needed Biden investigated they could have done it through a variety of channels (I'm guessing). I also never defended Biden, but it's clear why Trump wanted him to be investigated specifically. It's not hard to be ignorant on one's point of view. In fact that's the reason the whole country is so divided.
 

Hotspurr

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Not every single person opposed to Trump is butthurt about the election, but the Democrats are. Need we go over Schiff's history?

Dude I honestly think Schiff is human garbage and the only person I found more irritating than him is Kamala when she was grilling Kavanaugh. In this regard you're preaching to the choir. My point was about something a bit different.
 

Joe T.

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Dude I honestly think Schiff is human garbage and the only person I found more irritating than him is Kamala when she was grilling Kavanaugh. In this regard you're preaching to the choir. My point was about something a bit different.

I know, but I'm not telling you Trump is an angel or that everyone that thinks he should be impeached is brainwashed. There has been so much incredibly poor/irresponsible/malicious reporting about Trump over the last few years, and definitely a long list of embarrassing mistakes by his Dem opponents, that should give any rational person more than enough reason to doubt their claims. The best course of action, if you happen to believe Trump did something worthy of impeachment, is to wait this out and hope the Dems can produce some sort of evidence that helps their/your case. The existing evidence isn't enough or they would have already voted to start impeachment proceedings.

What they're trying to do in the media is move the needle on public opinion so they can feel safer moving forward. Attempting to impeach Trump at this moment would be political suicide for dozens of 2020 Dem candidates, including those running for president that have already committed, like the two current favorites Biden and Warren. Bernie Sanders, to his credit, hasn't jumped aboard the impeachment bandwagon yet. This issue could serve to become a major differentiator between the two most left-leaning candidates.
 
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Patriots7

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Well fact is there was no quid pro quo. Fact is that Shokin testified under oath that the President of Ukraine told him he was fired because of Biden and Burisma investigation. Fact is AG Barr has been investigating the origins of the Russian Hoax. Fact is that a Ukranina court found that the Ukraine did interefere in 2016 and spread info about Trump and leaked the black ledger. So I see plenty of facts that matter.

What isn't a fact is that Biden is the DNC nominee and that any Ukraninan investigation will benefit Trump politically. If HRC decided to run tomorrow does that mean no Epstein/Bill connection could be investigated because it might benefit Trump?
That...that isn't a fact. The only fact is that Donald Trump didn't explicitly say "this is a quid pro quo" in the released transcript.

Let's just take a step back. The man is going to be impeached. The public is apparently supportive of his impeachment. Rather than attempt to lie about his actions, we should talk about what happens after McConnell saved him from being removed from office in the Senate trial. Will this power his re-election campaign? Will he be forever etched in history as the third president to be impeached? What does the conversation turn to after he's been impeached?
 
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cryptoadam

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The quid pro quo is yet to be decided. The point here is that the president may have abused his power. If they needed Biden investigated they could have done it through a variety of channels (I'm guessing). I also never defended Biden, but it's clear why Trump wanted him to be investigated specifically. It's not hard to be ignorant on one's point of view. In fact that's the reason the whole country is so divided.

Well we have the transcript and there was no quid pro quo. Zelinsky says there was none. Ukraine didn't even know the funds were being withheld. So unless you are Schiff making things up I don't see the quid pro quo. I don't see how its an abuse of power to ask Ukraine to verify if their fired prosecutor is lying and to work with AG Barr in regards to that. Trump was going through that channel by asking Ukraine to work with AG Barr.

Trump wanted Biden investigated because he bragged about his quid pro quo on camera and Shokin testified in a sworn affidavit (punishable by perjury) that the former Ukraine president told him he was fired because he was investigating Biden's son.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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49% don't support impeachment. That is also a pretty large arbitrary number that has no bearing on the validity or eventual success of this venture. 🤷‍♀️

But keep placing your bets now I guess.
 

cryptoadam

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That...that isn't a fact. The only fact is that Donald Trump didn't explicitly say "this is a quid pro quo" in the released transcript.

Let's just take a step back. The man is going to be impeached. The public is apparently supportive of his impeachment. Rather than attempt to lie about his actions, we should talk about what happens after McConnell saved him from being removed from office in the Senate trial. Will this power his re-election campaign? Will he be forever etched in history as the third president to be impeached? What does the conversation turn to after he's been impeached?

Yes he never told the Ukraine to investigate or else. Zelensky himself confirmed this as well. Ukraine didn't even know their funds were on hold. So if he never explicictlay said it, Ukraine didn't know about it and the Ukrainian president said he was never pressured, then all you are left with is mind readers and parodies like Adam Schiff.

We will see first the House needs to vote on impeachment instead of running this sham inquiry.
 

Kittehkraken

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Majority of the people polled:



I've seen a number of Republicans who support the impeachment for the sole purpose of watching it backfire in the Dems face.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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We wouldn't be in this mess if Democrats didn't push for impeachment upon immediately hearing about the whistleblower. They jumped the gun, it's obvious now. Trump threw a monkeywrench into their little party by releasing the transcript and having the DOJ review the call, no fighting or grandstanding like he usually does. Democrats made a bad political move and it's blowing up in their faces. They didn't have all the facts and they rushed forward.

Even if one believes Trump did some quid pro quo thing, we would wait for the investigations to take place, right? The DOJ did one and cleared Trump. The transcript itself clears Trump. Both parties involved in the phone call cleared Trump. What else is there to examine? What remaining investigation is there? Democrats aren't even impeaching him, they're doing an "inquiry". It's okay to be skeptical, but at a certain point you have to acknowledge when the body of evidence is piling up.

Right now, it looks like Democrats jumped into impeachment over a rumor that ended up being false.

The accusations against Biden have existed for awhile now. You can look up the clips yourself and look up commentary on the clips dating back before this second-hand whistleblower thing blew up. It's simply a testament to the Democrats' blindness that they decided to mount a fake attack on Trump for a crime one of their candidates committed.

Trump did nothing wrong in pointing out the obvious: uhhh, working with Ukraine is the thing you did, idiots.

That's too much of a pill to swallow, so Democrats carry on like the child holding its breath in defiance.

The other element, which Kittehkraken Kittehkraken pointed out above, is that I think some people genuinely want the Democrats to do it because they believe it will blow up in the Democrats' faces. Do not confuse "supports Trump's impeachment" with "thinks it is the morally right thing", nor does it mean "supports the Democrat's assertions against Trump".

That is the danger of polls. The numbers themselves mean very little. It's all about framing.
 

Patriots7

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Even if one believes Trump did some quid pro quo thing, we would wait for the investigations to take place, right? The DOJ did one and cleared Trump. The transcript itself clears Trump. Both parties involved in the phone call cleared Trump. What else is there to examine? What remaining investigation is there? Democrats aren't even impeaching him, they're doing an "inquiry". It's okay to be skeptical, but at a certain point you have to acknowledge when the body of evidence is piling up.
...the DOJ is implicated in this. Trump has been using Barr as his personal attorney. Sessions at least had some semblance of respect for the office.

We (people who don't worship him) don't "believe" he did. He admitted to soliciting foreign interference in order to hurt Biden. He literally leveraged military aid for an investigation into a political rival. At this point, we're just hoping to see how deep this cover-up goes.

The good news. As this drags on, we're going to get a barrage of entertaining tweets 😃
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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...the DOJ is implicated in this. Trump has been using Barr as his personal attorney. Sessions at least had some semblance of respect for the office.
You are blabbering conspiracy. The DOJ said Barr wasn't even involved and wouldn't have needed to be. A team reviewed the call. Should we just drag the whole team in front of the House too? This is all political theater, McCarthyism gone mad.

We (people who don't worship him) don't "believe" he did. He admitted to soliciting foreign interference in order to hurt Biden. He literally leveraged military aid for an investigation into a political rival. At this point, we're just hoping to see how deep this cover-up goes.

The good news. As this drags on, we're going to get a barrage of entertaining tweets 😃
I'm afraid you'll be shrieking and shaking your fist yet again, but I'm sure you will reflect soberly on yet another unfulfilled Democrat prophecy of Trump's downfall when this doesn't come to pass.