Making games for children is a creative dead end

#1
"I think personally Star Fox is a really fun game if you sit down and play it. I think, for example, an elementary school kid who plays it without any preconceived notions, I think it would be really fun for them. I think it's also really, really fun for siblings to play it together."

Shigeru Miyamoto said these words in response to angry fan backlash in regards to Star Fox Zero's motion controls. According to him, those of us who despise the controls and wanted them changed were nothing but senile old men because we actually had standards.

This, I feel, really showcases Nintendo's core problem with developing titles. They are OBSESSED with developing for children who have no interest in playing their games to begin with. Adding in super modes where you can't die, structuring entire games around their tutorials, and conceptualizing and releasing ridiculous ideas that simply have no real audience, such as Pikmin or Codename S.T.E.A.M.

Nintendo needs to realize that children only want to PLAY THE SAME GAMES ADULTS ARE PLAYING. THERE IS NO REASON TO RUIN YOURSELF CREATIVELY PANDERING TO CHILDREN WHO WON'T BUY YOUR GAME ANYWAY.

Nintendo and Miyamoto seem to principally rely on the 'It's for children!" excuse when justifying the existence of games like Star Fox Zero and the censorship of Xenoblade Chronicles X. According to Nintendo, it is not okay to treat children with respect and dignity.
 
#2
A few thoughts:
Nintendo does use "it's for the children" as an excuse too often. Nintendo has a number of dusty old developers/producers (Miyamoto included) who need to step aside and make way for the talent. They have lost touch with what the market wants from Nintendo.

But there's a bizarre disconnect: they use "it's for the children" for niche titles like Pikmin, Starfox, etc (like you pointed out) when they take the franchise in a weird direction, but they do not make more games that actually sell to children such as sidescrolling Super Mario Bros. If they were actually targeting "the children", they would make more games for them. Instead of more games that historically sell well to kids, we get Labortion and Pikmin 35: Dream Drop Distance.
 

Lunk

Neo Member
#3
I wanna post that NeoGAF.gif with the dude presenting himself with a smirky experssion but instead it's slanted and ripped in the middle.
 
#6
Nintendo tow a weird line between what's intended for children and what's intended for adults. Mario Odyssey had many segments that were clearly designed to play on the nostalgia of older, returning fans, while also adding in the easy modes you mentioned. But you'd have a had time explaining to someone who doesn't play many games that Odyssey isn't just for kids, even though it looks like some acid trip Saturday morning cartoon.
 
#7
As far as I'm concerned they don't really care about aiming for a market much anymore, apart from adding in things like accessibility for younger players which can be turned off or outright ignored by more experienced players.

It doesn't take much for them to add in an "easier mode" to a game really...
 
#8
I think making games for children and trying to make it educational is a creative dead end. But if game designers just "made a fun game" kids would love it. The secret about kids is they will love almost anything, and play almost anything. I remember when I first started playing Kingdom hearts, I was like "oh how quaint, a disney game for kids". But then I realized how fun the game was!

As I'm not a Nintendo guy, I can't speak to the rest of your post.
 
#9
Do you have kids?....im not a Nintendo guy, at all.

But when i looked at nintendo labo for example, its something that i wanna try with my son, and im pretty sure my son will be pretty happy with it.
 
#10
What? No!
Nintendo has modes to include children, such as easy mode and super mode. But Mario Odyssey's post credits levels are awesome and difficult, every new Mario challenges. Also, wtf with the free Pikmin hate?
So you have to beat the game to get to the good parts?
 
#12
So you have to beat the game to get to the good parts?
Well, good is subjective. I mean that the game has all difficult levels. It's starts easy, has hard challenges, and super hard challenges. But also has very easy mode and very hard late game levels.
 
#13
Since Snes, nintendo has had M-rated games, though I think it has to do with sells. I remember cursed mountain on the Wii didn't sell very well, zombiu got ok reviews, Mad World did ok, but I think it also has to do with some of the online issues. Like who's going to want to play CoD, or other fps shooters on the switch online. Rare left Nintendo, so they can't get other KI game. And who's going to want to play Mortal Komat on the switch, when you need to buy a new pad, or stick, and MKs online also sucks. Dark souls remaster is coming to switch soon, which is m-rated.

They have some M-rated games, but they let the 3rd parties make them
https://www.amazon.com/Games-Mature...33011,p_n_feature_three_browse-bin:2055863011
 
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#14
I feel like 80% of games that come out currently are for children, and bugmen men children gush over them constantly.....

I personally want deep, adult, mature content. I'm not interested in "cute" worlds and "adorable" characters where about all there is to do is collect items and follow some childish narrative where love and goodness win the..... Ah I give up. Lol
 
#15
Nintendo needs to realize that children only want to PLAY THE SAME GAMES ADULTS ARE PLAYING. THERE IS NO REASON TO RUIN YOURSELF CREATIVELY PANDERING TO CHILDREN WHO WON'T BUY YOUR GAME ANYWAY.
My kids don't want to play the games I play. All they care about is Mario and party, and all the cartoon/disney/etc stuff.

Do you have kids?....im not a Nintendo guy, at all.

But when i looked at nintendo labo for example, its something that i wanna try with my son, and im pretty sure my son will be pretty happy with it.
Oh, and on the contrary, my kids showed absolutely no interest in this. Thankfully!
 
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#16
My kids don't want to play the games I play. All they care about is Mario and party, and all the cartoon/disney/etc stuff.



Oh, and on the contrary, my kids showed absolutely no interest in this. Thankfully!
So how old are your kids? There are plenty of T-rated games also. Not to be mean, but your kids sound like they are spoiled, when I was a kid, I didn't care about what games were rated.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_1?rh=n:468642,n:!11846801,n:16227128011,n:16227133011,p_n_feature_three_browse-bin:2055862011&ie=UTF8&qid=1539041664
 
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#18
Why spoiled? They're 7 and almost 5.
It sounds like they are very picky, and sounds like you are letting them be very picky thats all.

My parents only gave what they wanted most of time, there was no arguing about it. If I got something that was that, no arguing was allowed. I got something from them or nothing at all
 
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#19
When I was 9 I played hardcore strategy games like Universal Military Simulator that looked like this:



Being a kid doesn't mean you're stupid. Unless you ARE stupid. And Nintendo is clearly making games for stupid kids (and stupid adults).

Enjoy the stupid then!
 
#20
When Nintendo has added a super easy mode to Yoshi Wooly World. The game that was already easy to play.
The game where you just pressing the right button and sometimes jumping/hitting and the enemies do nothing but walking right/left nonestop.
I knew that Nintendo's target group are people who hate games!

 
#21
It sounds like they are very picky, and sounds like you are letting them be very picky thats all.

My parents only gave what they wanted most of time, there was no arguing about it. If I got something that was that, no arguing was allowed. I got something from them or nothing at all
Hmm.. With games and toys, yes, they get to choose what they like obviously (within budget). With other things though, like food, clothes etc, not really ;) Otherwise it'll be hell, lol. They do have a day every week where they get to eat whatever they want, which is mostly junk, surprise surprise, hah.

But I do like to involve them in things and trying making their own decisions.
 
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#22
Hmm.. With games and toys, yes, they get to choose what they like obviously (within budget). With other things though, like food, clothes etc, not really ;) Otherwise it'll be hell, lol. They do have a day every week where they get to eat whatever they want, which is mostly junk, surprise surprise, hah.

But I do like to involve them in things and trying making their own decisions.
Around that age they are wayyy to young to be making heir own decisions. If I had kids that didn't want to play mario, and be picky about video games, I would tell them well you are playing this or nothing at all. Around 13 or so I would let them be more picky. Though its just my opinion you are letting them be to picky.
 
#23
Around that age they are wayyy to young to be making heir own decisions. If I had kids that didn't want to play mario, and be picky about video games, I would tell them well you are playing this or nothing at all. Around 13 or so I would let them be more picky. Though its just my opinion you are letting them be to picky.
They're not exactly making life decisions. They're mostly smaller ones that help them practice their minds for later. I like empowering them.

I'm guessing you don't have kids, right?
 
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#24
So how old are your kids? There are plenty of T-rated games also. Not to be mean, but your kids sound like they are spoiled, when I was a kid, I didn't care about what games were rated.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_1?rh=n:468642,n:!11846801,n:16227128011,n:16227133011,p_n_feature_three_browse-bin:2055862011&ie=UTF8&qid=1539041664
Wait what? So if a 7 year old likes Mario, and is given Mario, they are too picky and should just play dad's leftover copy of GTA because "take what you're given"?

These ideas are bizarre. I don't get it. Kids like a franchise liked by kids since the 80's and there's a problem. It's almost like your argument is that whatever the kid happens to like, give them something else as not to promote pickiness. Let's turn it around:

My kids don't want to play the games I play. All they care about is GTA, Tomb Raider and Last of Us.

You are letting your kids be too picky, give them Mario and Disney instead. They'll play what they're GIVEN!

The above sounds equally nonsensical.
 
#25
Wait what? So if a 7 year old likes Mario, and is given Mario, they are too picky and should just play dad's leftover copy of GTA because "take what you're given"?

These ideas are bizarre. I don't get it. Kids like a franchise liked by kids since the 80's and there's a problem. It's almost like your argument is that whatever the kid happens to like, give them something else as not to promote pickiness. Let's turn it around:

My kids don't want to play the games I play. All they care about is GTA, Tomb Raider and Last of Us.

You are letting your kids be too picky, give them Mario and Disney instead. They'll play what they're GIVEN!

The above sounds equally nonsensical.
Thank you. I was going to reply with something similar but what a weird concept of parenting.

I get not spoiling kids but that has more to do with giving them what they want all the time. Letting them make choices is entirely different and helps children learn to be independent and confident adults.

If hetacomb had kids, which I doubt, I guess their "optimal" situation are adult children who do everything their parents want them to because they are desperately seeking approval. That's going to backfire so hard. Even if it comes true, it will be a "careful of what you wish for" type situation.
 
#26
I get not spoiling kids but that has more to do with giving them what they want all the time. Letting them make choices is entirely different and helps children learn to be independent and confident adults.
This. If I was given some shit sports game instead of Mario and Sonic, guess what? I'd have had no interest, and never gotten any good at video games.

IT'S A DAMN GAME! It's for fun! If you're my parent, you can control how much fun and when I can have it, but don't tell me HOW to have fun. I get to decide that! If you're trying to tell me how to have my own damn fun, you have some weird control issues.
 
#27
Honestly, I think most entertainment directed towards children can limit creativity because the creators probably insinuate that the younger crowd are easier to satisfy leading to less effort.

Adults normally nitpick and at times relentlessly question a lot of content in various entertainment while kids are seemingly are more accepting of entertainment despite any imperfections it may have.
 
#28
The funny thing is that the only reason children are getting Nintendo games is because of the adults that grew up and loved all those difficult and non dumbed down Nintendo games from their youth and so buy them for their own children.

Nintendo removing almost any difficulty from the Yoshi series of games is really disappointing.
Wooly World would have been a fantastic game with two more challenging worlds which felt missing.

That said Nintendo has been a bit better recently. At least Super Mario Odyssey had decently balanced difficulty.
 
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#29
My step daughter is 4.5 and she would rather play House of Dead, The Walking Dead (at the pizza arcade family place in town), and then Mario. It's really a toss up. She always asks about The Evil Within when I ask her what she wants to play. "I can't play that with you, it's for when you get older". She hears me talk about the games and she wants to play them.

It's hard to tell. She loves zombies, vampires, and then Princess Peach. I had her play Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze and it's too hard for her. She's so use to Kindles and smart phones where there's hundreds of free kids apps. She isn't into picking a game and sticking with it. Which is why F2P is so viable for kids to play games. I can't use the whole "that game was $60, play it, and that's all you get". So I can't get her every single Nintendo game.

She isn't growing up like I did. Even I had the SNES and the arcade. I kinda followed it from Mario Bros to Mortal Kombat to Crisis Zone.

Nintendo loves their wholesome approach, but moms and dads aren't necessarily going to buy them all the Switch games. Sometimes I feel like Reggie must have an age range he bases Nintendo on, but then I realize that he's summing up Nintendo as Nintendo.

Sure, sometimes the Nintendo isle at stores sucks. Look at how far down your body had to be to play a game at a store kiosk? It only really sells if the kid enjoys the games. I let my step daughter download all the demos from the eshop for the Switch. I have the games like the GBA Castlevania and all the RPGs.

The labo is definitely something I see "for kids" because it looks like it's for kids. Nintendo always has that feeling like they must be in the movie "Toys" 24/7. But then they release a game that's amazing and everyone sorta brushes that off.

I would really start to dislike Nintendo if they started bad mouthing us, the people who grew up with their authenticity symbol and each dungeon crawling Zelda game. I think then they'd lose their way.

It's fun to like Zelda in a group, but I haven't met a kid whose parents said "my little one beat game A,B, and C". It's typically a toss between the parent not wanting to sound like they're this hardcore gamer or that they game without their kids. Obviously it's all been done, but I feel as though some parents and people still see video games as being childish. Even when people can make a realistic case that it's for everyone and there's something different in each game.
 
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#30
More on-topic: Star Fox Zero was the ultimate proof that Miyamoto is over the hill. He doesn't care whether people will actually appreciate a change, he just likes to experiment and has the position and reputation to make the world his tech demo. As a grown ass man with amazing memories of StarFox64, I resent that he now makes a games that can, in his own words, only be appreciated by a child who has never played a better game before.

Not only is it insulting to us, who not only made Nintendo successful to begin with and STILL want new games, it's insulting to the kids too, who he apparently thinks don't deserve better.

I think his quote is absolutely audacious. "The game isn't so bad, if you've never played anything before". The hell?

"
 
#32
My daughter is 12 now, but I started gaming with her when she was 4-5ish, gradually. And the game we started with, and one we still play together (although the version has changed), is Mario Kart. Is it for kids only? I don't think so, adults can definitely enjoy it too. At least personally I'm not ashamed to admit that it can be a blast with local multiplayer - with or without kids. Is MK8 Deluxe a creative dead end? Hell no, apart from it being a WiiU port - but very few had a WiiU (I did though), so it's great that it receives a larger audience. I'd consider an "accessible" game - it doesn't matter how young or old you are, it's easy to pick up and very much fun in a group. "Gitting gud", now that is not granted and takes skill, hence it's not only for kids. But sure, there are the blue shells and such too, which means despite your skill there may be an element of randomness. To some this is infuriating - to them I say, lighten up a little. So you got hit by something just when you were about to cross the finish line - well, life sucks at times. Laugh or swear loudly if you want, off to the next race. I have many friends who are generally not into games at all. They're still able and very willing to do a few rounds of Kart. I think to be able to create such a game is far from a creative dead end - if anything, it's quite remarkable, few companies would be able to pull it off.

children only want to PLAY THE SAME GAMES ADULTS ARE PLAYING. THERE IS NO REASON TO RUIN YOURSELF CREATIVELY PANDERING TO CHILDREN WHO WON'T BUY YOUR GAME ANYWAY.
Yeah, well, in my experience that's not true at all. If I'm playing something like an action adventure game or an RPG, my daughter may casually observe it for a while. If it is visually pleasing, she may look a little bit longer. But she quickly loses interest. This has been the case since like forever. But playing something like Ratchet&Clank (or $DEITY forbid, Hatsune Miku - she's mental over it) or a puzzle game and she'll be instantly grabbing the controller from me. Some kids are just kids and want to remain so as long as they're kids. Amazing, isn't it?

To put this in a language you might understand better, STOP PROJECTING YOUR IDEALS, PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT, THAT INCLUDES CHILDREN. IF THEY'RE ENJOYING THEMSELVES, WHERE'S THE HARM IN THAT.
 
#33
all my friends with kids buy them nintendo stuff, even know like 3 people at work who bought a wii u for their kids

while i'm not all aboard the nintendo = kiddeh mindset i think it's a calculated business decision that more or less works for them
 
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#34
"I think personally Star Fox is a really fun game if you sit down and play it. I think, for example, an elementary school kid who plays it without any preconceived notions, I think it would be really fun for them. I think it's also really, really fun for siblings to play it together."
[SNIP]
They are OBSESSED with developing for children who have no interest in playing their games to begin with.
For this particular quote, this is a misrepresentation of what is being said. Miyamoto is clearly stating that a player's preconceived notions of how a game should be potentially hinders that player's experience with the game.

And there is truth to that. People are allowed to disagree with him, but there is a growing pool of people who if a game (or anything) doesn't exactly match their expectations, then it must be utter trash.
 
#35
Wait what? So if a 7 year old likes Mario, and is given Mario, they are too picky and should just play dad's leftover copy of GTA because "take what you're given"?

These ideas are bizarre. I don't get it. Kids like a franchise liked by kids since the 80's and there's a problem. It's almost like your argument is that whatever the kid happens to like, give them something else as not to promote pickiness. Let's turn it around:

My kids don't want to play the games I play. All they care about is GTA, Tomb Raider and Last of Us.

You are letting your kids be too picky, give them Mario and Disney instead. They'll play what they're GIVEN!

The above sounds equally nonsensical.
so you let your 7-8 years old M-rated games? Thats up to you I guess. Like I said to me they sound like they are spoiled and picky, I don't care what you think.
 
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#36
my 10yo cousin got fixated on a switch after watching a couple of youtubers hype it up, I told him he'd regret it after a few days and ask for a PS4 instead.

Saw him a couple of weeks later when our family got together and after his dad left the room he told me I was right, lol. After playing a bit of Mario Odyssey and BOTW he was pretty much done with the console and his parents obviously ain't getting another console for him, which as a kid sucks to be stuck with an expensive, unwanted gift.

All kids want to do nowadays is cause havoc in open world games or shoot some shit up with their mates (see Fornite), I don't think nintendo is catching up with the times with some of their games and providing that experience for their target audience.
 
#37
so you let your 7-8 years old M-rated games? Thats up to you I guess. Like I said to me they sound like they are spoiled and picky, I don't care what you think.
No. You said that someone's kids sound picky because they only get excited for Mario, Cartoons etc. I used this as an illustration to point out this is a really dumb problem to have because the alternative is, uh, GTA and Last of Us. Kids sound picky because they like cartoons? What are you on?
 
#38
Making art for children yields bad art but it seems to yield profitable art.

Just look at the movie industry. All it produces now is trashy comic book movies, basically, but we live in child worshipping cultures where parents will do anything to satiate their little monsters. Basically, it works. I mean, it's not like Call of Duty 803 isn't made for children, too. Any adult got bored of cookie cutter FPS games like 15 years ago.

There are at least five categories you can put art in (from this angle): 1) made for what adults think children should consume, 2) actually made for children, 3) what children perceive as "adult", 4) actually adult, 5) made for anyone.

Call of Duty, Mortal Kombat, Doom, Witcher games, etc. would fall into category #3. There's really nothing adult about them. They're pretty infantile, really. A good Mario would go in #5. Something like the first two Thief games or Planescape: Torment would go in #4. Those games would bore the fuck out of any child.

Expect the bar to get continually lowered going forward.
 
#39
All kids want to do nowadays is cause havoc in open world games or shoot some shit up with their mates (see Fornite), I don't think nintendo is catching up with the times with some of their games and providing that experience for their target audience.
Regarding the Op hatred for how Star Fox turned out - zero disagreement.

But there are games like doom and resident evil on switch. And so is Fortnite :)
 
#40
A couple of points on the op's premise:

Star Fox Zero is a great game and the controls work very well. The perspective switch takes some getting used to, but it is a clever mechanic used in a good way. Disliking Star Fox Zero is not indicative of having standards but of having a certain (from my perspective: poor) taste.

I think Miyamoto is less talking about senility, and more about inflexibility here. Children are less set on never learning anything new to play a game. Star Fox Zero requires adaptation to both, motion controls for finer aiming, and management of two perspectives. This is an additional learning curve that can be problematic for rusty old players (such as myself). Past examples have already shown that many older players are so set in their ways that even very well planned and executed control schemes that use motion have a hard time getting accepted, just think of the complaints leveled at Skyward Sword. Star Fox Zero was also a victim of this. This has nothing to do with having standards, but with being stubborn or just having a hard time to adapt.

Adding casual modes is not only for the children and they are inobstrusive. You can just choose to play the normal way and in many cases doing so is associated with at least a small recognition on the save file (not in Yoshi's Woolly World's example though, admittedly). I see no issue in this and it is preferrable over variable difficulty that kills the balance of the game or not having such an option at all. It's just an option afterall.

Outside of the beginning of Zelda TWW, TP and SS, I do not see how "structuring the game around the tutorial" descibres Nintendo's game design even remotely accurate.

The censorship in XCX (I'd prefer to call it cut content, because it was the publisher itself who decided to do so)being "for the children" is news to me, but in any case, it is merely a cosmetical change. I would have thought it was to preemptively silence social justice activists with it and the western release was spearheaded by the office in the most prudish part of the developed world, the US. Where children need to be protected from evil female breasts at all costs, lest they get distracted from shootbang weapons.

Overall: I think there is no good point in the op and the original premise of the thread is deeply flawed. To (also) target children is absolutely not a creative dead end.
 
#42
Around that age they are wayyy to young to be making heir own decisions. If I had kids that didn't want to play mario, and be picky about video games, I would tell them well you are playing this or nothing at all. Around 13 or so I would let them be more picky. Though its just my opinion you are letting them be to picky.
Didn't realise they let you use the internet in Guantanamo bay??
 
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#43
Adding casual modes is not only for the children and they are inobstrusive. You can just choose to play the normal way
Related to this - in the Spider-Man OT when the game was released there was an unnamed gaffer absolutely losing his shit over the fact that the accessibility menu has options for "QTE auto complete" and "change button taps to holds" (the latter is a common accessibility options these days). I quote:

Do they think actual monkeys are playing their games? The QTEs are easier than Detroit while the puzzles are easier than Uncharted 4. A child could beat most if them one-handed.
The thing is, those settings are under "accessibility". Some people may be incapable of performing either action, having various physical or mental disabilities. Such options may be the difference between being able to play the game in the first place or not at all. Sure, there are videos along the lines (just as a contrived example, although I wouldn't be surprised if this were to exist) of someone who's lost both his arms playing Dark Souls using just his toes and the Donkey Konga bongos. That doesn't represent 99.9% of the population, let alone those with disabilities.

Just the fact that an option is there doesn't mean one has to use it. If more people are able to enjoy a game, despite physical or cognitive differences compared to Joe Average (or being kids and not very proficient with games yet), isn't that just all for the better? Maybe it's just me, but the above quote seems like having a fit over a wheelchair ramp - "FFS, it's just a couple of steps! An infant could climb those!".
 
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#44
So... I feel like I want to point out that making games in general doesn't really change according to the game your making, but rather The Big Fat Cun.... Cat Boss.

Making a kids game can be fun and creative as you like - depending on the BFCB.

Making a [insert favourite genre] game can be fun and creative as you like - depending of the BFCB.

I worked on a Disney movie game many years ago and loved it. It was great fun. I've also worked on hard core strategy games and my forehead is still bleeding 5 years later.

So the type of game doesn't enter that much into the equation - unless you're making soulless games - but even then, that's down to your BFCB really.

As for Nintendo and Miyamato... the core phylosophy at Nintendo is that their video games are like toys.
Sometimes those toys are aimed at very young children, sometimes at teens and sometimes at very old children.

I feel like where Nintendo are concerned, you need to look at who GameX is aimed at.
 
#45
Related to this - in the Spider-Man OT when the game was released there was an unnamed gaffer absolutely losing his shit over the fact that the accessibility menu has options for "QTE auto complete" and "change button taps to holds" (the latter is a common accessibility options these days). I quote:


The thing is, those settings are under "accessibility". Some people may be incapable of performing either action, having various physical or mental disabilities. Such options may be the difference between being able to play the game in the first place or not at all. Sure, there are videos along the lines (just as a contrived example, although I wouldn't be surprised if this were to exist) of someone who's lost both his arms playing Dark Souls using just his toes and the Donkey Konga bongos. That doesn't represent 99.9% of the population, let alone those with disabilities.

Just the fact that an option is there doesn't mean one has to use it. If more people are able to enjoy a game, despite physical or cognitive differences compared to Joe Average (or being kids and not very proficient with games yet), isn't that just all for the better? Maybe it's just me, but the above quote seems like having a fit over a wheelchair ramp - "FFS, it's just a couple of steps! An infant could climb those!".
I agree, this is snobbish and helps no one. And actually, considering what kind of shit game design QTEs are, even as a normal player without any disabilities, I would actually use such an option. If I can turn of shit game design, will do.
 
#46
And actually, considering what kind of shit game design QTEs are, even as a normal player without any disabilities, I would actually use such an option.
Personally I don't mind them that much if they're either used in moderation (as was the case with Spider-Man, despite initial fears after the reveal E3 demo) or blend well within the gameplay (for example combat in Xenoblade series or continuing a heat action in Yakuza). Not the most original game design idea for sure, but eh, I can roll with it.

But bashing a single button, that's a thing that needs to die, agreed. In the case of Spider-Man, it's not over the top, the amount of hammering required is fairly sensible (still don't like it though). But something like the GoW3 remaster - I bought it a couple of years ago, have tried to start it a few times, and have always given up after a few hours at the latest. I don't have a particular emotional attachment to my controllers, but I don't want to punish them either.
 
#47
Nintendo are different to every other bugger out there. That's a good thing. A really good thing. It's the kind of diversity I can get behind. Having something a bit different allows new ideas to percolate into other spaces, and is thus a positive for gaming as a whole. I'm at work right now but I'll try to post a better explanation of what I'm on about when I have a bit of time to do so.
 
#49
Pikmin 3 is the best game of the generation, so hardly unnecessary. I also doubt the Pikmin 3 team would otherwise make F-Zero X 3.
Heaven forbid Miyamoto makes more games in a series that is personal to him.
Pikmin came out in 2001. Since then, we've had 1 more GCN game, a 3DS game, a port of the GCN games to the Wii, Pikmin 3 on Wii U, and now plausibly a Pikmin 4 on Switch. 5 games in 17 years is a much greater frequency than most other Nintendo franchises.
 
#50
Pikmin came out in 2001. Since then, we've had 1 more GCN game, a 3DS game, a port of the GCN games to the Wii, Pikmin 3 on Wii U, and now plausibly a Pikmin 4 on Switch. 5 games in 17 years is a much greater frequency than most other Nintendo franchises.
The 3DS game is just a spin-off with different gameplay, Pikmin 4 will definitely not release 2018, so we are at three games in 17 years. Even if I give you Pikmin 4 in 2019, it's then four games in 18 years. In those 18 years there have been six 3D Marios, four 2D Marios (notably with a big gap until it started!), five Mario Karts, three F-Zeros (!), six Metroid main line games (probably seven by the time Pikmin 4 comes, plus three similar spin-offs and one further off spin-off), nine Zelda main line games, ten Fire Emblem games (eleven by the time Pikmin 4 comes), three Yoshi mainline games (four by the time Pikmin 4 comes; plus two spin-off games, one of which with similar gameplay), four Smash Bros. games (five by the time Pikmin 4 comes out), eleven Mario Party games, five Mario Tennis games, seven Pokémon mainline games (eight by the time Pikmin 4 comes out), three Donkey Kong mainline games, six Mario vs. DK games, nine Mario RPGs (in two subseries, with at least four games each), four Advance Wars game (or six Wars games, overall)...

Need I go on? What are you actually on about, Pikmin is at the lower end of active, running series, getting new entries.