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Making games more difficult to test the player does not always make them more fun, especially when they're required for achievements

taizuke

Member
I recommend trying to platinum some easier games, such as the Evil Within. Especially Akumu Mode is a breeze. It's a well balanced difficulty curve so you will feel good afterwards when you beat it.

Do not listen to this man. lol

I mean Evil Within is a wonderful and rewarding platinum experience but Akumu mode is not for the faint of heart.

As for you OP, don't give up. I know you mentioned you have arthritis and that you've been at it for months but keep trying. Weiss' battle can be defeated in a minute or two. Check out a youtuber named BlitZ. Try following his tactic as best as you can. Also, make sure all your materia is up to par with his.

If you got that the Gotterdammerung (which is no cakewalk) i have no doubt you can beat Weiss.
 

Kev Kev

Gold Member
Yah I kinda hate that too. Those extra hard difficulties and endgame boss fights should just unlock in game content, and leave trophies/achievements for fun, easier challenges.

It’s a huge buzzkill when I’m on a roll with a game and I’m thinking about going for all trophies/achievements and then I see one that says complete on the hardest difficulty. It makes me just not care about them anymore bc I know I won’t be getting all of them.
 

Robb

Gold Member
I don’t care for trophies/achievements at all but what’s the point to even have them if they’re all easy challenges? Aren’t you supposed to compete with others for the top score?

If anything it sounds like most games are way too lenient on the challenges and that devs should include more difficult challenges in their games. Otherwise it’s just a competition of who played the most games, which is utterly pointless, not about the actual challenges.
 
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FingerBang

Member
I partially agree with the OP, as in I am against insane online trophies and huge grinding, but don't mind a difficult trophy/achievement to prove you mastered the game.

Finishing a game on the higher difficulty mode after finishing it once is not that big of a deal, as long as they let you skip cutscenes and it's balanced/fair.

Personally hate the collectible ones and all the others that require you to follow a guide/walkthrough.
 

bootaski

Member
If you're really into trophies, I guess at some point you're going to have to manage your expectations with really difficult, skill dependent, or time consuming ones. Some will be unreasonable for the amount of time and effort you are able to put in. Diablo II resurrected hardcore trophies fall into this category for me, right now, but I'm willing to attempt the xcom 2 and wolfenstein II platinums. I'm also not opposed to using any resource, be it the cooperation of other players, information in the form of guides or videos, or exploiting glitches or bugs in getting a trophy, esp. if the trophy seems cheap or unfair. As long as you're not cheating by altering the code of the game or using software to hack it. Boosting is great for old games with dead multiplayer modes.

I've been into trophies for about a year, and trophy hunting has revitalized gaming for me. Before I played however I felt like playing, not caring about missing content or features. This isn't necessarily bad, but there is a limit to how much you can play like this. Now that I structure my playthroughs and time with a trophy list in mind I am spending more time gaming and getting a sense of accomplishment and closure when I get a platinum or 100%. To me trophies represent effort, skill, dedication, creativity and knowledge. They are a validation of my time spent gaming, and I also think of them as a way to pay tribute to good games.
 

emmerrei

Member
Crash 4 is trash for this reason, and isn't even related to the trophies, the game itself is a clustefuck, completly unjoyable for a casual gamer. Then if you want to make a platinum, well, you're masochist.
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
The only time I care about achievements is when I need some for a weekly Xbox reward thingy, I don’t care about them or trophies otherwise.

But yes, I agree that it’s a cop out to just shrug out “complete the game on the hardest setting” or whatever, that’s lame for those that enjoy them. Use some imagination!
 

01011001

Member
Crash 4 is trash for this reason [...] completly unjoyable for a casual gamer.

Donald Glover Reaction GIF


I love seeing entitled casuals get annoyed with difficult games

louise belcher laughing GIF
 
The saddest thing in the world is seeing entitled gamers who think that games should require skill and people should just have to git gud. Being good at video games isn't really a useful skill and bragging about being "hardcore" is cringe af. So I guess it cuts both ways.

Season 1 Nbc GIF by The Good Place


Asking for games to actually engage the player, utilize the mechanics, and have *depth*, is by no means "cringe". Crying that people ask for these things and laugh at children who can't handle the most bare minimum of challenges?

That is fucking cringe, mate.
 

01011001

Member
The saddest thing in the world is seeing entitled gamers who think that games should require skill and people should just have to git gud. Being good at video games isn't really a useful skill and bragging about being "hardcore" is cringe af. So I guess it cuts both ways.

oh no, people who think having an interactive piece of media be not just a simulated walk in the park that gives you useless trophy unlocks for free are so cringe! can't get more cringe than that! surely!

...
..
.

dude... games don't have to be hard at all, I love the old Lego Star Wars games for example...
but I just love seeing entitled people crying about being too shit to complete a game
So Good Julia GIF by HBO Max

in a world where people beat Dark Souls with their feet, they complain that they cannot beat a game for children with 2 fully functional hands.
it's glorious.
 
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gypsygib

Member
The worst was Killzone on PS3. You had to be 1% in the world for that week in online MP to get the trophy.

However, I do respect he philosophy. IRL top trophies are only earned by top players, instead of the "everybody is a winner" approach.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I’ve no interest in trophies or achievements, but I do agree that it’s stupid to have separate trophies for completing a game at different difficulties.

If you’ve got to reload an end game save point to jump through different hoops, just to get a different trophy - what’s the point? It’s hamster wheel bullshit, which is the case of most trophies/achievements.
Trophy/achievement hunters obviously love their fake awards, hence the popularity of cheap trophy award games on PSN. In reality all I see with that Platinum is that wasted your time killing 1,000 enemies with a rusty spoon instead of doing something better like playing another game.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
TLoU 1 is actually a poor example. The game isn't the same on easy or even normal. You're not fighting for your life or saving resources for later and I was very disappointed with how easy it was to platinum TLoU 2. Meanwhile I finished the firsy game back to back on Hard & Survivor+ and loved the difficulty.

And fyi I'm definitely not the kind of guy who looks for maximum difficulty. Some games are simply meant to be enjoyed for providing a proper challenge.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
Oh, this is mainly an achievement rant?
Well, trophies are dumb. Because there’s no coherence in them. You get a trophy for completing the game at the highest difficulty or for completing a whole set of levels without getting hit, but then the same game has a trophy for doing the most trivial, pointless things.
And while some cheevos based on difficulty pose a good challenge, others are just grinding in disguise. Those no-damage or no-death trophies are often just that, repeating parts of the game again and again ’cause the slightest mistake sets you back to the start. Not really different than grinding some body bit or another in PVP Souls, or killing the same monster a few thousand times for that cleverly elusive 0.01% drop rate item. Fuck that.
 

Tiamat2san

Member
Well i almost never play games on hard difficulty.
I just want to finish them and have fun.
If i can do all the achievements or trophies without playing on hard … cool.
If not, i won’t force myself to play on a harder difficulty for that.
Like i won’t collect everything if it’s too boring (looking at you ubisoft)

I Don’t value achievements / trophies too much.
I have nothing to prove, my life doesn’t depends on it and i won’t succeed better in real life because i earned a platinum trophy in a game.
 
I see some "consecrated" games as an insult to the player's intelligence.

You walk and hit weak enemies 3 times with your sword, run out of stamina, you walk backwards, roll, return your stamina, you go after the enemy and 3 more hits.

Then there are bosses that kill you in a second too, with long ranged attacks, spamming projectiles, spinning like an idiot. It feels like you're fighting a lunatic who doesn't stop and doesn't even see you. And even using your default skills, u can't escape, not even rolls.

Soo, what's your option? play 60-100 hours of the game farming to get strong, then yes you can attack, take damage (because the game doesn't give you fighting strategy, except moonwalker and roll), attack again, take healing potion, attack, be attacked, healing potion...In this loop.

Yes, I'm talking about From Software games and their even worse clones.
The only one that is a little better is Sekiro, because at least you have good tools and skills to defend yourself. (but the bosses are still silly).

This is how to make a "hard" game! A non strategic and skill related game. Lazy, no fundamentals on gameplay or great skill from the players required.
 
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Hastelander

Neo Member
Very few games (like Hitman Absolution, of all) do achievements right and even then, they hardly add anything to the actual experience. It's the unholy matrimony of collectathons and achievements that gave us checklist games (and to a point, microtransactions), so fuck both of them, and every way in which developers add artificial difficulty or length to their game.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Never cared for trophies but if they were easy to get they would be like a partecipation medal and not something that you really earned.

Hopefully the point of getting trophies is the fun of getting them and not the final result of engrossing a stupid platinum count on your account...
 

tygertrip

Member
Pretty much what it says in the title. I commend what Naughty Dog have done with The Last of Us Part 1 in that they've dropped the difficulty trophies. I genuinely believe games are to be enjoyed by people of all difficulties and I also like collecting platinum trophies. Divisive or not, some games really are too much. Uncharted and The Last of Us are terrible for this. Meaning you have to beat the game on their absolute hardest difficulties to get the platinum trophy. Not fun guys. Not enjoyable. Makes me feel excluded in a way because I'm not going to get that good at this game. Same for Final Fantasy VII Remake Integrade. That Weiss boss fight, is fucking bullshit. You can only hurt him when he's pressured in a very small window. His attacks do mega damage. The limit break item you spend hours and hours to unlock in an equally hard fight cannot be used. He heals himself passively and he has a one hit kill that activates every five minutes that kills your entire party. Not fun man, I've been trying to do this for a couple of months now and I'm just going to put the game to bed missing just one trophy. Locking the platinum trophy behind completing the game on hard mode which even with the limit break item doesn't always help as much as you'd like.

I get it. Some games use these challenges to test the player and draw out the game time but honestly I'm never going to get that good. I recently found out I have a genetic form of arthritis which kind of explains why I can't always be as fast as I'd like when I play games and guitar. If you're going into a game like Dark Souls and you expect an easy ride, then fool you. Cause that's the kind of game I really think is there for people who love challenging combat. But honestly some games are really cheap and it's annoying asf.

Like Spider man, I have to play through again on hard for the platinum, why? Yakuza, complete on legend mode. Metal Gear Solid, get S ranks on every mission. I could go on and I know I'm not the only that feels this way. I understand many players want a challenge and some love the thrill of beating a challenge from a harder difficulty. But if 1.5% of players get a trophy for a game that sold millions of copies, don't you think you've been a bit overkill? Like we will give up. I'd like the trophy for beating Weiss, but honestly, I'm done.
My god, this is sad. Zoomer, by chance?
 

tygertrip

Member
People who think they deserve trophies for participation and not effort or skill is the reason the world is so messed up right now. Awards are meaningless when they are given out without merit.
So true. Man, the real world is going to stomp the snot out of these types, lol.
 

Pallas

Gold Member
If a trophy/achievement is too hard or time consuming…. Then don’t do it? You can still enjoy the game. Kids these days.

Though on Xbox I do like the shiny gem sound when you unlock a achievement that not many others in the community has gotten but I don’t go out if my way to get these unless it’s a game I really like(example Eiyuden Chronicles Rising)

I know my most coveted trophy on PS4 is a bronze trophy from Star Ocean ‘Til end of time called Follow The Clues(collect all books of secrets) which was kind of annoying and missable because one book was in a post game dungeon that had enemies doubled your level at that point in the game plus two bosses, but I enjoyed the challenge, but if I wanted to I could have still enjoyed the game without going after it.
 
If you are playing games to earn Trophies/Achievements you are doing it WRONG. You are suppose to play games you enjoy actually playing. It's not that hard.
If you don't like a game cause it's too difficult, then go play something else. No, not every game is for every one.

Seriously though, go find something else to do with your life if you are primarily playing games trophy/achievement hunting. And maybe go see a therapist or life coach.
 
Trophies can die and lick my a**.
Trophies annoying notifications is the FIRST thing I disable on all system.

However, lazy difficult increase like "Let's just double or triple enemies health" is really the lazy way and devs should stop it.
 
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Good game design = difficulty options.

Period.
Good game design = balanced gameplay. When you just put in difficulty options to check that box you get braindead easy mode that's boring and a hardmode that does nothing but making things take longer to kill and kills you faster killing the flow.

If you play enough games, you'll be able to tell when certain difficulty modes are an afterthought and not how the game was designed to be played. The games become just boring or frustrating - both just a watered-down experience.

Now, when designers put actual thought and design into their difficulty modes, it's a different story. But, that's a big ask as developers of AAA games have enough work just getting the game balanced for the default difficulty.
 
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Mistake

Member
I usually find that I get most achievements by playing games normally. I really like ones that have the ability to change difficulty in-game, and not just at the beginning, because they sometimes have higher rewards like increased drop rates. If I have to choose in the beginning, I’ll go for whatever is medium difficulty, and then higher the second run if I really enjoyed myself
 
You can use the Gotterwhateveritscalled against Weiss. It's a translation error. What actually happens is that the benefit is halved.
 
Good game design = balanced gameplay. When you just put in difficulty options to check that box you get braindead easy mode that's boring and a hardmode that does nothing but making things take longer to kill and kills you faster killing the flow.

If you play enough games, you'll be able to tell when certain difficulty modes are an afterthought and not how the game was designed to be played. The games become just boring or frustrating - both just a watered-down experience.

Now, when designers put actual thought and design into their difficulty modes, it's a different story. But, that's a big ask as developers of AAA games have enough work just getting the game balanced for the default difficulty.

This is why I am vehemently against the idea of adding “easy modes” to any game. Focus on adding accessibility features. Ways you can break the game through the gameplay, but keep the game designed around a very specific style of play. Elden Ring for example offers so many accessibility features to allow players who are… bad at games to actually finish the game. And it offers more challenge to those who may find it a little too easy thanks to its wide variety of weapons, summons, and traversal options.
 
All your examples were good except Spider-Man, even in the hardest difficulty that game was super easy. Spider-Man is ridiculously overpowered in that game, but that’s part of what makes it fun.
 

01011001

Member
All your examples were good except Spider-Man, even in the hardest difficulty that game was super easy. Spider-Man is ridiculously overpowered in that game, but that’s part of what makes it fun.

that's all modern AAA games tbh.
same in Ratchet, anything but the highest difficulty in that game is a cakewalk. I would go so far to say that anything but the highest difficulty in Ratchet is not a well designed game for the simply reason that many Gamedesign elements being completely irrelevant playing those lower ones
 
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RoadHazard

Gold Member
They are called "achievements", you're supposed to have achieved something. I know that's not how they (or trophies) actually work most of the time, but I don't think having to beat the game on the highest difficult is an unreasonable thing. Unlocking all achievements/trophies SHOULD mean that you have pretty much mastered the game and overcome all its challenges.
 
Mafia’s racing mission on the hardest difficulty takes robotic level precision and it happens pretty early in the game. I understand filtering out anyone who would just be turned off by the driving, but that mission is absolutely insane.
 
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tygertrip

Member
I think they should start making trophies/achievements for sucking. Like, if you get your ass beat in the tutorial level, a notification pops up saying “A loser is you!”, or “You dishonor your family, for shame!”. That shit would be hilarious.
 

93xfan

Member
OP is jealous of my Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends Platinums.

If you’re willing to SharePlay, I’d consider helping you get them.
 

Kvally

Member
I don't pay any attention to my trophies and achievements. They could remove them and I would never notice. Though I do think all games should have more accessibility options in them. Games like Elder Scrolls would be nice to have them.
 

Cyberpunkd

Gold Member
Makes me feel excluded in a way because I'm not going to get that good at this game.
Let me guess - fan of participation trophies at school?

Imagine someone saying: “Why do I need to learn piano for months and years before I’m good?”.

Platinum trophies are not obligatory, same with all other trophies. Stop being so entitled.
 
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