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[Exploratory]

We're going to get fucked in the long run. People just don't buy as many games as they used to. People talking about how crowded the market is are full of it because it's been that way for over a decade. That's not an excuse. We just can't support all these games apparently.

 

[TheSadRanger]

I think you guys are overlooking consumers saving up for VR headsets as well. At least on the PS4 front. Consumers only have so much cash :/

Honestly I think some of those games shoulda been pushed back to Q1 2017.

 

[RexNovis]

I can't believe the hit se took on tr entry over entry. Tr2013 went on to sell 7mm. This will sell half.

Honestly they can only blame themselves for that one. Easily one of the worst cases of mishandling from an advertising/marketing perspective in recent memory. They opted for a cash up front strategy that ignored trends and metrics established by the previous entry.

 

[Good Guy Gone Bad]

Titanfall 2 has a higher Metacritic score than BF1.

Sorry I think I wasn't clear enough in my post -- BF1 comes off of BF4 which was supported amazingly post-launch and well received. TF1 was a solid first entry but it seems that it had enough issues to turn people off of buying TF2, nevermind the TF2 beta that didn't help either.

What are you talking about? BF1 and Titanfall 2 were both extremely well received and have almost exactly the same average review score. Gears 4 reviewed only slightly worse than its predecessors.

See above

 

[jelly]

I kinda feel bored of the same old IPs. I know it's safe for publishers to double down but you created these old IPs last gen or even further back, try again. That's not to say nobody is trying, there is new IPs but if you send them out to die like Titanfall 2, what hope is there. Fingers crossed they are doing new stuff and it just takes time.

 

[Mooreberg]

A lot of this is publisher insanity. SE hobbled ROTR's chances TWICE. Everybody knew a year later at full price was going to be a non-event.

Titanfall 2 is a unique situation because one of the games drawing attention away from it is from EA. I also wonder if "future FPS" fatigue is setting in. It was a good differentiator before Activision decided to have three damn studios hop on the same bandwagon.

 

[Ricerocket]

Perhaps they shouldn't flood the gaming market with sequels within 2 months of the entire year they could have put them out. Seems people are only spending on a game and BF1 was the one.

WD2 and Titanfall 2, I had no interest in because of the first games. Blahblah open world haxx1ng or wall running aren't selling the game for me.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Hopefully this year makes developers consider using the whole year for game releases.
Probably won't though.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Save for Gears of War 4 (which under performed due to franchise fatigue most likely), all of these games under-performing are due to dumb business decisions.

Rise of the Tomb Raider - I hope this is a lesson to Square Enix. You don't take a franchise reboot that sold 5-6m copies and then make the next entry a year long exclusive on the console with half the install base of the market leader. There are newer, fresher games to play this holiday rather than a year late release.

Titan Fall 2 - EA shat the bed with that release date. Plain and simple.

Sky Landers - Toys to life bubble is collapsing. But I guess that's not really a dumb business decision and more a product of the current climate.

 

[Fdkn]

We're going to get fucked in the long run. People just don't buy as many games as they used to. People talking about how crowded the market is are full of it because it's been that way for over a decade. That's not an excuse. We just can't support all these games apparently.

can we get total software spending year over year? that's how we can discuss this, and not cherrypicking some failing games.

 

[JayEH]

Skyrim sold great!

ehhh I would say that's more of an exception.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I rarely ever buy many games day one cause by the time I get to them with my backlog, it's all discounted anyway.

Man, that is sure a lot of big budget game releases in just short time period vying for everyone's money though.

Poor TF2, that's just a straight up case of the publisher screwing the devs.

 

[deoee]

I still don't get how people "jump" conclusions (esp. on Titanfall 2) when the data includes 2 days of sales.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

Wow a 5 year old game outsold titanfall 2, jesus.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Even with digital it's not like these are not flopping. Do you think digital will get gow4 to 2 million?

You know what I've discovered? This industry will have four games a year soon

Well the gears game before that did not do as good .
And while it was a spin off a bad game can always hurt a IP .
Anyone that was expecting gears 4 to sell near 3 was crazy .

As for TR and TF2 everyone but the heads of SE and EA saw that coming .

 

[AHA-Lambda]

FWIW, Battlefield 1 is actually selling better still than CoD in the UK so far.

Battlefield 1 had a good start and is continuing to perform very strongly; the game is currently the No.1 shooter in the UK and could even emerge as the biggest Battlefield game in the series yet.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-11-21-whats-going-wrong-at-games-retail

It will be interesting to see how it compares worldwide by years end.

 

[meanspartan]

It is fucking infuriating that the remaster was positively reinforced but TF2 flopped.

Gamers are encouraging the wrong thing.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Maybe stop releasing all your damn games in a 2 month time frame and I'll buy more. Titanfall 2's release date is still so baffling.

I feel like we've seen a gradual expanding of the release calendar throughout the year, but most major released still focusee on October and November. Perhaps this can change. I don't want any dry spells during the year. The gaming audience has aged and has money. I can buy a game in January or July. Just release them them then so they don't get drowned out by Battlefield and COD.

The October-November pileup has been an issue for well over a decade but it never stopped the major AAA games from being huge sellers even if it squeezed out the smaller games.

There is something else going on here other than just release date collisions.

 

[brandonh83]

I agree with you. I beat the campaign last night man that game is so much fun to play. The action feels super fluid.

The assembly line stage blew my fucking mind into oblivion. Can you not imagine how much technical and creative wizardry that must have went into that?

I'm not a shooter fan as I'm high on game and level design which is why I'm big on Nintendo franchises and the such, but Titanfall 2 was like hey this can be impressive as well, and holy mother of fuck was it.

 

[Boke1879]

First thing these publishers need to stop cramming every damn thing into the last 3 months of the year.

Sony has had no issues doing this with their first party offerings and see it pay off. A lot of games could release in the dead summer months and they would sell just fine.

 

[Griss]

Sales of sequels don't reflect their quality so much as they reflect the previous game's quality. If you want to start a franchise, you've GOT to get it right the first time and have a critical success.

Both Titanfall and Watch Dogs started off on the wrong foot with very mixed reception and now the far superior sequels are reaping the sales results of that lingering poor sentiment.

I can't help but feel like mobile gaming and F2P 'games as a service' on PC / console are slowly but surely eradicating the perception of value in $60 video games. It's tragic, but for whatever reason I feel like people just think that's an unreasonable price to pay for 15+ hours of entertainment, despite the fact that it stands up well to almost every other entertainment option out there. Gaming is devalued.

Afraid for the Switch... lots of trends in the industry it needs to buck.

 

[AlexBasch]

But Titanfall 2 is awesome.

 

[Indelible]

It is a damn shame that Rise of the Tomb Raider flopped so bad, the year long Microsoft exclusivity killed that game. Hopefully these numbers means that companies will release more games during the spring and summer months instead of chasing the holiday money.

 

[Caayn]

People can only spend their money and time one time.

It'd be interesting to see numbers of total games sold during fall last year and compare that with this fall's sales.

 

[Affeinvasion]

The question is did the exclusivity agreements for Tomb Raider and Titanfall 1 make up for the lost sales down the road on other platforms. I'm guessing no...and would be thrilled for this practice to disappear.

 

[Dabanton]

There's only so much people can buy and play in a short time period.

Publishers! Let your games breath!

This should always be the takeaway. Just from the FPS games released over a three week period we had

Battlefield 1 then Titanfall 2 then CoD.

Launch prices for all three of those games would be well above $60 each, God knows how much if you were getting the super duper versions. Only a very small number of gamers have that obsession to be picking up each of those games on release day.

Everyone else whether through lack of time or lack of money will choose one to pick up and put time into.

 

[DeadlyParasite]

I simply don't have the money to keep buying 2-3 games a week for 3-4 months straight. This obsession of releasing all the games in the holiday shopping period just makes things awful for the consumer who likes to buy a lot of games.

That and the awful prices of Canadian games.

 

[Screamapillar]

Who at EA thought it would be a good idea to put Titanfall 2 up against their own Battlefield 1 and Bethesda'a Skyrim?

That seems like suicide to me.

I'm not too concerned about ROTR PS4. It will have long legs and will make an attractive bundle. It will undoubtedly sell well in the holiday season starting this week. Especially with all the added content. It's now selling to the giant PS4 install base instead of just the relatively smaller and somewhat less TR-friendly Xbox base.

 

[Orayn]

can we get total software spending year over year? that's how we can discuss this, and not cherrypicking some failing games.

Every NPD thread has this figure and we've had a couple solid years of months that declined X% YoY.

 

[brandonh83]

First thing these publishers need to stop cramming every damn thing into the last 3 months of the year.

Sony has had no issues doing this with their first party offerings and see it pay off. A lot of games could release in the dead summer months and they would sell just fine.

Totally. Most do it for that holiday/Christmas/BF rush. And it's not a dumb thing when it comes to marketing, but I wish they had more confidence.

 

[pswii60]

Even with digital it's not like these are not flopping. Do you think digital will get gow4 to 2 million?

You know what I've discovered? This industry will have four games a year soon

I think the age of the 50gb mega budget videogame is definitely nearing its end. But then hopefully we can get back to mid budget games again, and reset. Think Shadow Warrior.

My frustration with today's videogame market, much like Hollywood, is that we have very low budget games and very high budget games but little in between. But it's the in between where the real magic happens.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I think you guys are overlooking consumers saving up for VR headsets as well. At least on the PS4 front. Consumers only have so much cash :/

Honestly I think some of those games shoulda been pushed back to Q1 2017.

I really doubt VR has that big an impact, especially with the average consumer

 

[Stone Ocean]

It is fucking infuriating that the remaster was positively reinforced but TF2 flopped.

Gamers are encouraging the wrong thing.

Gamers aren't "encouraging" anything, they are playing what they want to play

If your game can't compete with a remaster then don't fucking release it weeks apart from said remaster.

 

[Chobel]

can we get total software spending year over year? that's how we can discuss this, and not cherrypicking some failing games.

It was up YoY.

At Oct 2016 NPD USA Retail, PS4 software is up +58% YOY, Xbox One software is up +22%, and Wii U software is -52%. All software is up +11%.

https://twitter.com/AstronautClaire/status/799691117000278016

 

[Schlorgan]

Both Titanfall and Watch Dogs started off on the wrong foot with very mixed reception and now the far superior sequels are reaping the sales results of that lingering poor sentiment.

But... But GAF told me Titanfall was a masterpiece!

 

[_Clash_]

RIP AAA

 

[Generalpsyduck]

Is this the second time ROTTR flopped?

 

[oti]

I think the age of the 50gb mega budget videogame is definitely nearing its end. But then hopefully we can get back to mid budget games again, and reset. Think Shadow Warrior.

This is what I think Nintendo is aiming at with Switch. A downscaled and healthier business all around. The big names like GTA will still be there, but publishers have to understand there's only one GTA.

 

[AniHawk]

it's okay though because the dedicated hardware market totally isn't in decline or anything.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

is hard to tell really, a lot of big games close of each other and nevermind the huge discounts some are already getting and aint even BF yet

i learned the hard way that buying near BF and December is just dumb, next time ill personally will wait for these dates to get my games releasing in the last 3 months of the year (with a few exceptions)

 

[Fdkn]

Every NPD thread has this figure and we've had a couple solid years of months that declined X% YoY.

There are months with increases too, but I was really talking about the yearly total. And that is (was?) only retail, because digital has been growing those years. I'm not denying the decline, I just ask if the data is anywhere to really discuss it lol

It was up YoY.


https://twitter.com/AstronautClaire/status/799691117000278016

I see, so the problem is not the consumers, but those games in the op? well, you can't ask for people to buy what they don't want

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I still don't get how people "jump" conclusions (esp. on Titanfall 2) when the data includes 2 days of sales.

Skyrim was released on the same day and sold more than twice as much.

Titanfall 2 has clearly cratered

 

[RoKKeR]

I think you guys are overlooking consumers saving up for VR headsets as well. At least on the PS4 front. Consumers only have so much cash :/

Honestly I think some of those games shoulda been pushed back to Q1 2017.

Who exactly is saving up for VR? Honest question. Outside of an initial way of early adopters and enthusiasts, I don't see a lot of excitement for the product this holiday season.

 

[brandonh83]

Is this the second time ROTTR flopped?

tbh I'm waiting for ROTR for when I get a 4KTV, I got a PS4 Pro but still have a 47" 1080p.

 

[Loudninja]

First thing these publishers need to stop cramming every damn thing into the last 3 months of the year.

Sony has had no issues doing this with their first party offerings and see it pay off. A lot of games could release in the dead summer months and they would sell just fine.

This is a real problem.

People can only by so many games at a time.

 

[jelly]

Honestly they can only blame themselves for that one. Easily one of the worst cases of mishandling from an advertising/marketing perspective in recent memory. They opted for a cash up front strategy that ignored trends and metrics established by the previous entry.

I don't about TR. The first one sold millions of copies but a lot was at dirt cheap prices and maybe even freebies. ROTTR lost maybe a million if you're being generous PS4 copies by not being the same launch date and remember Uncharted 4 was around then too. It was screwed either way.

 

[Cow Goes Moo]

I think the age of the 50gb mega budget videogame is definitely nearing its end. But then hopefully we can get back to mid budget games again, and reset. Think Shadow Warrior.

AAAA games will go to models that encourage playerbase retention with sprinkles of "updated"/added content for encouragement like overwatch and destiny and gta
aka multiplayer focus as ubisoft has recently discovered

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Gamers aren't "encouraging" anything, they are playing what they want to play

If your game can't compete with a remaster then don't fucking release it weeks apart from said remaster.

This, seriously. What gave EA the audacity to think that after one good IP debut, Titanfall had the clout to release right in between Battlefield and Call of Duty will baffle me for eternity. This should have dropped in February/March 2017.

it's okay though because the dedicated hardware market totally isn't in decline or anything.

I'd say it's contracting and normalising if anything. It's in nowhere near as dire a position as some people on these boards think/want it to be. But last generation was a complete outlier. You had the Wii fad that produced 100m+ unit sales, and then PS3 and 360 sold over 80m a piece...each. That's unprecedented. From a pure volume perspective there's never been anything like it, and likely never will be again.

 

[Maintenance]

Digital will not drastically close the 500k-2m GOW gap, people. Take it easy with that kool-aid.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

I think you guys are overlooking consumers saving up for VR headsets as well. At least on the PS4 front. Consumers only have so much cash :/

Honestly I think some of those games shoulda been pushed back to Q1 2017.

Personally, I think this is getting really overlooked.

Sure, consoles are more affordable than at launch - but they're still $300+.

Plus, the "hardcore gamers," that spend a lot of money are getting teased with a $300+ Xbox One S or a $400 PS4 Pro.

Plus PS VR.

Plus PC gaming is making a good comeback - but that hardware costs money.

All the while, there's stuff like Oculus, Vive, $150 Elite controllers, $150 mechanical keyboards and $100 mice, $100+ headsets.

There are a lot of really good, but expensive, ways to spend you're money if you're a gamer right now that isn't necessarily software.