Mark Cerny thinks 8TF is the minimum for native 4K gaming

demigod

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You haven't watched video or watched all. That's what you call pointless
It is pointless. Even the Xbox One S version in that video looks better than the Original PC version. If you're going to try to prove your point at least do it apple vs apple and not apple vs oranges.

What are arguing about here?
Cerny said 8TF is the minimum needed for 4k gaming, based on the One X performance an extra 2TF does seem believably needed for all games to be native 4k.
He seems to be spot on.
IDK but it is quite funny people think he's wrong. Even a 1080 GTX struggles to maintain 4k 60fps ultra settings in The Witcher 3.
 
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thelastword

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Hardly Digital Foundry that video, very vague when it comes to settings.

Anyway here's DF latest Burnout Paradise Remaster 4k 60fps, 580 drops quite often and so does 1060 when Xbox stays solid 60fps. However there is a certain area on the X drops to 50 fps when their is nothing going on, probably a bug as its solid 60fps when their is crashes etc.
That was a very good video, he showed many instances where the potatoe masher had better settings and even the games he gave ties were technically better on the potatoe masher. Hitman was technically better on the masher and so is Forza 7 because it has bouts of dynamic settings on the XBONEX... better MB, lighting, lods on the masher etc...

As for Burnout, Are proper drivers released for that on PC yet, perhaps you should wait a few days, there's not even been a proper comparison yet. So many platforms missing and I'm sure PC will be put through the paces properly soon enough.....Besides, this game is not locked on either the XBOX ONE or XBONEX at this point.....drops to 50fps on XBONEX and 58fps on XBOX-ONE......Frankly, you should wait till more PC channels get their hands on this, allow better stress tests to be done across the board and allow for more inspection on graphical settings across the divide....Didn't leadbetter say he had 4x MSAA checked on the PC version and they used EQAA on XBONEX, maybe it's the MSAA...Lets wait a few days on this....The game is not released yet tbh...so the 16th is not too far off.....

What are arguing about here?
Cerny said 8TF is the minimum needed for 4k gaming, based on the One X performance an extra 2TF does seem believably needed for all games to be native 4k.
He seems to be spot on.
I think all sane people have deduced as much.. sometimes it's puzzling tbh....
 

demigod

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As for Burnout, Are proper drivers released for that on PC yet, perhaps you should wait a few days, there's not even been a proper comparison yet. So many platforms missing and I'm sure PC will be put through the paces properly soon enough.....Besides, this game is not locked on either the XBOX ONE or XBONEX at this point.....drops to 50fps on XBONEX and 58fps on XBOX-ONE......Frankly, you should wait till more PC channels get their hands on this, allow better stress tests to be done across the board and allow for more inspection on graphical settings across the divide....Didn't leadbetter say he had 4x MSAA checked on the PC version and they used EQAA on XBONEX, maybe it's the MSAA...Lets wait a few days on this....The game is not released yet tbh...so the 16th is not too far off.....
The PC version is coming out LATER this year, that's why that comparison is pointless.
 

Bogroll

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Still worth posting and i don't think Xbox is more powerful than 1060 but sometimes its better sometimes not.
 
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Navi is supposed to drop in 2019 but you never know with delays et al.... If the PS5 drops in November 2019 it will be decked with AMD GPU technology that exists in at least April of 2019 for the latest.....(or slighlty later).....Navi should be there at this point...if not then PS5 will have 7nm Vega....





In November 2020, that's almost 2021, Next Gen Arch or perhaps Navi 7nm+ will be available, so PS5 will be decked with Next Gen, which may very well be Navi 7nm+ for all we know......either way it's looking likely that PS5 will have Navi.
Next year will be full of exclusive games. I think SONY has no need to announce a new console before 2020. From 2020, SONY could announce a new console with 100% solid architecture.

But by the way.
What are your predictions? How many Tflops? What date of announcement and launch? CPU? Memory?
 

thelastword

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You haven't listened to it. I'll give you a clue. The remastered version is also on PC.
I don't think he meant that it's not coming to PC....

On my Origin account, Burnout Remastered is tagged as coming soon to PC, no solid date....however, for the other versions...I'm seeing this...


Studio
Stellar Entertainment
Genre
Action Racing
Platform
PlayStation 4, Xbox One, PlayStation 4 Pro, Xbox One X
Release Date
March 16, 2018
 

Bogroll

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That was a very good video, he showed many instances where the potatoe masher had better settings and even the games he gave ties were technically better on the potatoe masher. Hitman was technically better on the masher and so is Forza 7 because it has bouts of dynamic settings on the XBONEX... better MB, lighting, lods on the masher etc...
As a technical comparison video it's not very good.
I don't think he meant that it's not coming to PC....

On my Origin account, Burnout Remastered is tagged as coming soon to PC, no solid date....however, for the other versions...I'm seeing this...


Studio
Stellar Entertainment
Genre
Action Racing
Platform
PlayStation 4, Xbox One, PlayStation 4 Pro, Xbox One X
Release Date
March 16, 2018
i thought Richard had the remastered version on PC ( not the Pc version they were showing). Around 8.20 in video. My mistake i hold my hands up.
 
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thelastword

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Next year will be full of exclusive games. I think SONY has no need to announce a new console before 2020. From 2020, SONY could announce a new console with 100% solid architecture.

But by the way.
What are your predictions? How many Tflops? What date of announcement and launch? CPU? Memory?
Go to the PS5 rumor thread, there are some predictions going on....Slot in what you expect from PS5....My predictions are there....
 
Mar 3, 2018
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Consider this your one and only warning overall, and you can no longer post in the thread.
Go to the PS5 rumor thread, there are some predictions going on....Slot in what you expect from PS5....My predictions are there....
Ok, I still loving you forever!

You are amazing and hot.
 

Lort

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Can we ban thastword, he posts in everythread extraordinarily often, long posts that are simply wrong. I suppose it makes sence in this era of Trump being the president of bs but honestly people are leaving this place in droves because of this deliberate debate derailing.

Ive proven time and time again his claims are wrong and so he leaves the thread only to come back later when he hopes people wont remember. GTS miles ahead of forza 7? Xbox one x not running games at 4k60 ? Benchmarks that disprove him over and over again?

Is he a mod or something i dont understand why this is allowed.
 

Leak

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Can we ban thastword, he posts in everythread extraordinarily often, long posts that are simply wrong. I suppose it makes sence in this era of Trump being the president of bs but honestly people are leaving this place in droves because of this deliberate debate derailing.

Ive proven time and time again his claims are wrong and so he leaves the thread only to come back later when he hopes people wont remember. GTS miles ahead of forza 7? Xbox one x not running games at 4k60 ? Benchmarks that disprove him over and over again?

Is he a mod or something i dont understand why this is allowed.
I agree, its last "prediction" in the other threat is just a joke. I don't know if he is just troll-joking or just trolling. Or something worse. But he should stop.
 

n0razi

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Im OK with faux 4K (checkerboard rendering, etc) on my HDTV.... its a whole different story on my gaming PC where I'm sitting 2 feet from the screen. PS4 Pro however needs more ooph for '4K' at 60+ fps.
 

thelastword

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Im OK with faux 4K (checkerboard rendering, etc) on my HDTV.... its a whole different story on my gaming PC where I'm sitting 2 feet from the screen. PS4 Pro however needs more ooph for '4K' at 60+ fps.
There has not been enough 4k CB this gen though....I wish more devs were doing it for the majority of titles that are 1440p....However, next gen I doubt we will see 4k CB even then, but I do expect the occasional 8kCB....(3840 x 4320 cb'd to 7680 x 4320) for some indies and AA products...supersampling should be ace for 4k TV owners on these.....
 

EviLore

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Can we ban thastword, he posts in everythread extraordinarily often, long posts that are simply wrong. I suppose it makes sence in this era of Trump being the president of bs but honestly people are leaving this place in droves because of this deliberate debate derailing.

Ive proven time and time again his claims are wrong and so he leaves the thread only to come back later when he hopes people wont remember. GTS miles ahead of forza 7? Xbox one x not running games at 4k60 ? Benchmarks that disprove him over and over again?

Is he a mod or something i dont understand why this is allowed.
People are leaving this place in droves because of thelastword's posts? Are you sure it's not today's horoscope in the local paper suggesting internet forums are the leading cause of syphilis in young people? Millennials are big on that kind of stuff.

All seriousness, the mod team is keeping tabs on things here and I'll take a personal look as well to see if any shenanigans are going on or misinformation deliberately being spread, but the poster doesn't seem to be attacking anyone or bombarding the thread and doesn't fit the profile of an astroturfer or w/e. At a glance there are more comments complaining about the user than posts from the user. We have an ignore list, too, you know, if someone rubs you the wrong way.

It'll be looked into further, but in the mean time, @thelastword please just keep your commentary to one or two posts and support your positions where appropriate, and @ everyone else, please refrain from piling on needlessly, which does much more harm to the discussion. Subsequent responses in this thread relating to these concerns will be deleted. Thanks.
 

daibaron

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What are arguing about here?
Cerny said 8TF is the minimum needed for 4k gaming, based on the One X performance an extra 2TF does seem believably needed for all games to be native 4k.
He seems to be spot on.
do


I really don't know... He specificaly said "across the board". The XOX has been having very good results but it is not still on "4k across the board level".

I hope the ps5 is 10tf level at least, but im expecting below that around 8-9.
 

Lort

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This whole argument is how long is a piece of string. Lets deconstruct this..

Mark Cerry - smart guy but designed a box better than the xbox one but not as good as the xbox one x. Works for Sony, represents them for publicity. The fact he said it is irrelevant to the argument really.

4k gaming, depends on the title nvidia titan cant run witcher 2 at 4k60 but can run amost every other game at that.

Lets specifiy 4k on games for current gen non pro consoles (since this is what most people agree). Lets also clarify that we dont mean badly optimised games or games where graphics dont push the GPU.

A good example might be Star Wars battlefront 2 or Wolf 2.. graphics look great, pushes GPU often has frame rate limited by GPU. Both of these games run about 1080p 60 fps on original consoles and about 4k 60 fps ( with same settings as original consoles or better ) on xbox one x.

6tf with new specific optimisations xbox one x has .. is enough for 4k gaming. If there was no new xbox one x optimisations other then tf then it would prob require 8tf.

Mark is correct that 8tf with no other optimisations would be required for 4k current gen console gaming.. or u could use 6tf with other gpu and cpu optimisations such as the xbox one x has. There is no doubt that the xbox is delivering games from 1080p to true 4k on same settings with 6tf.
 

Shpeshal Ed

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Can we ban thastword, he posts in everythread extraordinarily often, long posts that are simply wrong. I suppose it makes sence in this era of Trump being the president of bs but honestly people are leaving this place in droves because of this deliberate debate derailing.

Ive proven time and time again his claims are wrong and so he leaves the thread only to come back later when he hopes people wont remember. GTS miles ahead of forza 7? Xbox one x not running games at 4k60 ? Benchmarks that disprove him over and over again?

Is he a mod or something i dont understand why this is allowed.
Report his posts.
 

pawel86ck

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Are you sure that you only get 45-55fps with a 1060 on med to low settings? Even then, that may not be too surprising since AMD hardware does better in this game.....Still I think the consoles have quite a few settings on low or medium in this game too, self shadowing, lower AF and shadows and a more dynamic and lower average rez....As for forza 7 on a 1060, yes AMD hardware does better on that too, but a 1060 can do do 4k 60fps in Forza 7 easily...Here...
This is screenshot from your video, 46 fps during rain, exactly as in my previous videos (and keep in mind that GTX 1060 has 2 GHz OC, at this point it's not that far behind GTX 1070)


But SantiagoSangiago gameplay is from demo version without optimised drivers from Nv, so we need to look at retail version.



Here's "MaDz" 4K GTX 1060 gameplay with HIGH settings (at this point settings are even lower compared to xbox X settings I think). 60fps most of the time, but still with rain performance will dip at 46 fps

And here's another video with MSAAx2 settings (EQAA x2 on xbox X is basically MSAAx2 plus additional coverage samples), 50 fps dips


I dont know if his GTX 1060 is OCed or not (probably is), but framerate still dips below 60fps even with few cars on the screen. That guy driving was clean, but if he would drive like MaDz fps should dip even more. MaDz was constantly crashing into oponnents, and he had many cars in front of him for entire race (with rain on top of that). That's why MaDz gameplay is so appealing to me, because I can see how GTX 1060 runs that game in the worst possible scenario.

My 1080ti can run that game easily at 4K, but GTX 1060 is to slow for that for sure. Minimal fps would have to be 15 fps higher


Hardly Digital Foundry that video, very vague when it comes to settings.

Anyway here's DF latest Burnout Paradise Remaster 4k 60fps, 580 drops quite often and so does 1060 when Xbox stays solid 60fps. However there is a certain area on the X drops to 50 fps when their is nothing going on, probably a bug as its solid 60fps when their is crashes etc.
Not surprising, and keep in mind xbox X version is more detailed than PC version (better shadows, ambient occlusion, better textures, more smoke effects, reworked small details). I'm not defending xbox X as some xbox fans, and what's funny many people here on neogaf even think I'm xbox hater (that console has many problems and I like to talk about issues :p), but I can look at facts (benchmarks, technical specifiations). It would be strange if RX 580 on steroids (+some vega features + dx12 features build into a chip, plus console games get optimisation that PC cant get) would be only as fast as standard RX 580 (or slower :p). If you look at PS4P vs Xbox X GPU, the tflops difference isnt that huge, PS4P is also based on polaris architecture yet performance difference is huge (xbox X can render up to 2.2x as many pixels). Xbox X GPU is totally custom made, and at this point is much faster than standard polaris GPU, and cant be compared to any equivalent PC part. Yet people compare xbox X GPU to PC parts like if it would be the same hardware. Even if xbox X GPU would be use eaxactly RX 580, even then performance on that console will be faster, because consoles always get optimisation, that PC simply cant get.

Can we ban thastword, he posts in everythread extraordinarily often, long posts that are simply wrong. I suppose it makes sence in this era of Trump being the president of bs but honestly people are leaving this place in droves because of this deliberate debate derailing.

Ive proven time and time again his claims are wrong and so he leaves the thread only to come back later when he hopes people wont remember. GTS miles ahead of forza 7? Xbox one x not running games at 4k60 ? Benchmarks that disprove him over and over again?

Is he a mod or something i dont understand why this is allowed.
You want to ban him, but for what reason? Because he dont agree with something? He simply have different view, and different opinions, that's all. Few day ago I didint know who that guy is, but I have read few thelastword posts since then, and I have noticed his posts are very well writen and he doesnt attack anyone.
 
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Louis Cyphre

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You want to ban him, but for what reason? Because he dont agree with something? He simply have different view, and different opinions, that's all. Few day ago I didint know who that guy is, but I have read few thelastword posts since then, and I have noticed his posts are very well writen and he doesnt attack anyone.
They are not well written. Just earlier he states Besides, this game is not locked on either the XBOX ONE or XBONEX at this point.....drops to 50fps on XBONEX and 58fps on XBOX-ONE . This is all to highlight the imperfections to the nth degree when in reality the game drops there in one instance throughout the entire game. . Meanwhile in Digital Foundry's video they say there is barely a hiccup and runs completely smoothly on console and simply fantastic. Even the crashes they are locked at 60fps. The lastword has a history of always wanted to promote any issues no matter how small they are on the Xbox One X while always wanting to give the PC and PS4 the benefit of the doubt. His bias is annoying by design. So it's easy to see he has a beef with the Xbox/Microsoft for whatever reason.

Mark Cerny's comment about 8TF isn't accurate either. You will always have some games that are simply too demanding. Even the GTX 1080ti can't do every game in 4K with the highest settings or run every game at a smooth 60fps. Every generation on consoles we get games that have trouble running smoothly and the PS5 will not mandate games at 60fps either. We might even still see dynamic resolutions instead of native 4K.
 

Allandor

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Mark Cerny's comment about 8TF isn't accurate either. You will always have some games that are simply too demanding. Even the GTX 1080ti can't do every game in 4K with the highest settings or run every game at a smooth 60fps. Every generation on consoles we get games that have trouble running smoothly and the PS5 will not mandate games at 60fps either. We might even still see dynamic resolutions instead of native 4K.
Yes, that we will. And it totally make sense, just because of the current mid-gen refreshes. If we have more dynamic res games, a refreshed console has advantages from day one without the need of a patch (well if it is really dynamic and not some sort of predefined "dynamic" resolution).
Maybe we even see dynamic 8k with the next gen, just because some scenes are not as demanding as others and on screenshots it can be sold to customers.
 

thelastword

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This is screenshot from your video, 46 fps during rain, exactly as in my previous videos (and keep in mind that GTX 1060 has 2 GHz OC, at this point it's not that far behind GTX 1070)

But SantiagoSangiago gameplay is from demo version without optimised drivers from Nv, so we need to look at retail version.
Here's the thing, Forza 7 released on October 3 2017, now, the video you linked is dated September 21st, the demo released 2 days before that on the 19th of September.....Now I know that, because I downloaded it on the 19th myself......So in essence, the video you're showing is still the demo.....

Now, the video I linked is of the demo, I know it had some dips, but it's running on un-optimized drivers and we all know T10's PC code is never firing day 1 on PC.....Still, I wanted to show you the settings at 4k, hence I timestamped the vid......4k ultra settings, Shadows maxed, MB maxed, reflections maxed, Car lod quality maxed et al......The thing is, NV cards were at a significant disadvantage to AMD cards in the title on October 3rd at release, but still it's mostly 60 in the demo on the GTX 1060 in any case.....NV then went on to release a driver that improved performance as much as 25% for Nvidia cards 6 days later after launch on the (9th October 2017)....

There have been subsequent improvements since then to the game/drivers, hence why myself and others have suggested that you refer to Jermsgaming's video as more accurate of GTX1060 performance in the game or how it should be frankly. It's a video posted on the 21st of this year....so it's more accurate a comparison...Still, the quality is better on the potatoe masher (which includes the GTX 1060) and it's a solid 60fps in perf.....
 
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Lort

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Here's the thing, Forza 7 released on October 3 2017, now, the video you linked is dated September 21st, the demo released 2 days before that on the 19th of September.....Now I know that, because I downloaded it on the 19th myself......So in essence, the video you're showing is still the demo.....

Now, the video I linked is of the demo, I know it had some dips, but it's running on un-optimized drivers and we all know T10's PC code is never firing day 1 on PC.....Still, I wanted to show you the settings at 4k, hence I timestamped the vid......4k ultra settings, Shadows maxed, MB maxed, reflections maxed, Car lod quality maxed et al......The thing is, NV cards were at a significant disadvantage to AMD cards in the title on October 3rd at release, but still it's mostly 60 in the demo on the GTX 1060 in nay case.....NV then went on to release a driver that improved performance as much as 25% for Nvidia cards 6 days later after launch on the (9th October 2017)....

There have been subsequent improvements since then to the game/drivers, hence why myself and others have suggested that you refer to Jermsgaming's video as more accurate of GTX1060 performance in the game or how it should be frankly. It's a video posted on the 21st of this year....so it's more accurate a comparison...Still, the quality is better on the potatoe masher (which includes the GTX 1060) and it's a solid 60fps in perf.....
I once had a computer that at one point went 60 fps so like its totally better than something else that never drops below 60 fps and therefor its like the same. Please ignore all other games and benchmarks and listen my endless repeat of conjecture rather than specific comments and analysis by digital foundry and guru3d on multiple games such as wolf 2, bf2, forza horizon, xbox 360 games...

Welcome for u to go ahead an test the titles below on your 1060 at 4k at xbox one settings of high or ultra and report your results.

https://www.xbox.com/en-AU/games/xbox-one/xbox-one-x-enhanced-list#tabletitle
 
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MilkyJoe

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Please be respectful to other members, even ones you don't agree with, and posting commentary about other posters only serves to derail the thread. If you feel a member has broken the TOS, please use the reporting tool. Thanks.

demigod

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It is pointless. Even the Xbox One S version in that video looks better than the Original PC version.
Not surprising, and keep in mind xbox X version is more detailed than PC version (better shadows, ambient occlusion, better textures, more smoke effects, reworked small details).
Please read the title of the video, Remaster vs Original PC version.

Here's the thing, Forza 7 released on October 3 2017, now, the video you linked is dated September 21st, the demo released 2 days before that on the 19th of September.....Now I know that, because I downloaded it on the 19th myself......So in essence, the video you're showing is still the demo.....

There have been subsequent improvements since then to the game/drivers, hence why myself and others have suggested that you refer to Jermsgaming's video as more accurate of GTX1060 performance in the game or how it should be frankly. It's a video posted on the 21st of this year....so it's more accurate a comparison...Still, the quality is better on the potatoe masher (which includes the GTX 1060) and it's a solid 60fps in perf.....
He even says it in his video that if he had made that video before January 21st the game would've had more bugs on the PC.

Is he saying ps5 will only be 8tf? I was hoping it would be 10+ tf.
Word on the street is the dev kits have it at 11tf.
 
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pawel86ck

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Here's the thing, Forza 7 released on October 3 2017, now, the video you linked is dated September 21st, the demo released 2 days before that on the 19th of September.....Now I know that, because I downloaded it on the 19th myself......So in essence, the video you're showing is still the demo.....

Now, the video I linked is of the demo, I know it had some dips, but it's running on un-optimized drivers and we all know T10's PC code is never firing day 1 on PC.....Still, I wanted to show you the settings at 4k, hence I timestamped the vid......4k ultra settings, Shadows maxed, MB maxed, reflections maxed, Car lod quality maxed et al......The thing is, NV cards were at a significant disadvantage to AMD cards in the title on October 3rd at release, but still it's mostly 60 in the demo on the GTX 1060 in any case.....NV then went on to release a driver that improved performance as much as 25% for Nvidia cards 6 days later after launch on the (9th October 2017)....

There have been subsequent improvements since then to the game/drivers, hence why myself and others have suggested that you refer to Jermsgaming's video as more accurate of GTX1060 performance in the game or how it should be frankly. It's a video posted on the 21st of this year....so it's more accurate a comparison...Still, the quality is better on the potatoe masher (which includes the GTX 1060) and it's a solid 60fps in perf.....
MaDz video (that one with the biggest dips) was recorded 9 december, and he was using optimised Nv drivers for that game. Because new Nv drivers were so much better, ComputerBase has included updated results, so in their benchmark chart GTX 1060 no longer dips at 41 fps, it only dips at 49 fps with optimsed drivers :p. MaDz video shows 60 fps on average with 46 fps dips (comparable results), and that's with high settings. What's funny MaDz have even admitted his GTX 1060 cant match xbox X results in that game (I like his YT video channel, because he is honest person). My PC can indeed easily run forza 7 at 4K (even with MSAAx8), but GTX 1060 is a little bit slower for locked 60fps, min. fps would have to be 15 fps higher to match xbox X results.

When it comes to JERMGaming comparison, that guy only talks and never show FPS results in his GTX 1060 gameplay video segments (basically his comparsion is worthless). Also he is using very strange PC setup



450$? So basically he is using OLD AND USED parts prices, and probably even stollen windows 10 key for 10$ (legit key is 100$ alone) and he compared that to NEW xbox X (with warranty and everything new). I'm not xbox fan (xbox fans on this site even say I'm xbox hater :p), but this is the most dishonest xbox X vs PC comparison video I have ever seen, and with current prices, even GTX 1060 is sometimes as expensive as xbox X (I have seen prices like that in my country).
 
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shpankey

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Ok.
One other consideration, though I'm not sure most people care, but I would be curious about the power consumption comparisons as well.
 

thelastword

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MaDz video (that one with the biggest dips) was recorded 9 december, and he was using optimised Nv drivers for that game. Because new Nv drivers were so much better, ComputerBase has included updated results, so in their benchmark chart GTX 1060 no longer dips at 41 fps, it only dips at 49 fps with optimsed drivers :p. MaDz video shows 60 fps on average with 46 fps dips (comparable results), and that's with high settings. What's funny MaDz have even admitted his GTX 1060 cant match xbox X results in that game (I like his YT video channel, because he is honest person). My PC can indeed easily run forza 7 at 4K (even with MSAAx8), but GTX 1060 is a little bit slower for locked 60fps, min. fps would have to be 15 fps higher to match xbox X results.
I agree that by right the AMD card in the XBONEX should be running this better and have an advantage over the 1060, but things are a bit different with consoles, they do share a similar pipeline for CPU and GPU....However, the reality is that the PC version at max does have higher settings then the XBONEX, in fact, better MB, A higher footprint for AA (when that is applied), better lighting quality etc....XBONEX is also known to scale settings dynamically to keep the framerate locked, hence why you will have lower LOD on cars on XBONEX at times........I agree the XBONEX version looks great and runs great, especially with HDR, but I'm pretty sure if the 1060 had dynamic settings, the lower quality MB and lighting, it would be locked 60 in many of the videos you see for the GTX 1060 too....

Anyway, this is my last video on this bit, check it out.........beyond the intro, it stays above 60fps at 4k with everything at max minus AA, no dynamic settings or lower MB, lighting or car-models....

I'm trying to show you the dynamic settings that happens on XBONEX at times, detail is dynamically lowered or altered based on what's happening on screen or load, hence why you will get slightly pushed back detail or lower car lods on top of the worse MB and lighting.... Jerm is not the only one to have pointed lower lod cars btw......In your video, I noticed this....as an example...the sign, it happens with other details as well with dynamic settings to keep the framerate locked.....Not questioning that framerate should be prioritized, just showing some of the mis-matches.. that exist.....and explain why you would see some dips on the Gtx 1060 in comparison.

 
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Lort

Member
Jul 9, 2017
776
517
245
I agree that by right the AMD card in the XBONEX should be running this better and have an advantage over the 1060, but things are a bit different with consoles, they do share a similar pipeline for CPU and GPU....However, the reality is that the PC version at max does have higher settings then the XBONEX, in fact, better MB, A higher footprint for AA (when that is applied), better lighting quality etc....XBONEX is also known to scale settings dynamically to keep the framerate locked, hence why you will have lower LOD on cars on XBONEX at times........I agree the XBONEX version looks great and runs great, especially with HDR, but I'm pretty sure if the 1060 had dynamic settings, the lower quality MB and lighting, it would be locked 60 in many of the videos you see for the GTX 1060 too....

Anyway, this is my last video on this bit, check it out.........beyond the intro, it stays above 60fps at 4k with everything at max minus AA, no dynamic settings or lower MB, lighting or car-models....

I'm trying to show you the dynamic settings that happens on XBONEX at times, detail is dynamically lowered or altered based on what's happening on screen or load, hence why you will get slightly pushed back detail or lower car lods on top of the worse MB and lighting.... Jerm is not the only one to have pointed lower lod cars btw......In your video, I noticed this....as an example...the sign, it happens with other details as well with dynamic settings to keep the framerate locked.....Not questioning that framerate should be prioritized, just showing some of the mis-matches.. that exist.....and explain why you would see some dips on the Gtx 1060 in comparison.

U use 1 frame from a game with a locked frame rate to do a performance comparison .. what a joke try responding to the benchmarks and my posts rather than pretending they dont exist.
 
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Bogroll

Member
Jan 25, 2018
506
273
210
England
I'm trying to show you the dynamic settings that happens on XBONEX at times, detail is dynamically lowered or altered based on what's happening on screen or load, hence why you will get slightly pushed back detail or lower car lods on top of the worse MB and lighting.... Jerm is not the only one to have pointed lower lod cars btw......In your video, I noticed this....as an example...the sign, it happens with other details as well with dynamic settings to keep the framerate locked.....Not questioning that framerate should be prioritized, just showing some of the mis-matches.. that exist.....and explain why you would see some dips on the Gtx 1060 in comparison.

You know you forgot to put in your 30 fps mirrors.:rolleyes:
 

Arkhan

Grand Vizier of Khemri
Staff Member
Dec 5, 2017
192
336
305
Tower of Arkhan, Nehekhara
I'd just like to drop a reminder that disagreeing with someone does not mean they have broken the TOS. Thinking someone has a bad opinion or an alien perspective of a topic, or is unreceptive to your own position is not a reason to report a post. Moderators are not here to win an argument for you by taking out your opponent, who you are free to just ignore. If you believe someone is a troll, then spending many posts feeding them is surely unwise at best, complicit in derailing at worst. If you cannot come to any kind of agreement on an issue, find some common ground or don't and move on.
 

pawel86ck

Member
Jan 27, 2018
395
263
195
I agree that by right the AMD card in the XBONEX should be running this better and have an advantage over the 1060, but things are a bit different with consoles, they do share a similar pipeline for CPU and GPU....However, the reality is that the PC version at max does have higher settings then the XBONEX, in fact, better MB, A higher footprint for AA (when that is applied), better lighting quality etc....XBONEX is also known to scale settings dynamically to keep the framerate locked, hence why you will have lower LOD on cars on XBONEX at times........I agree the XBONEX version looks great and runs great, especially with HDR, but I'm pretty sure if the 1060 had dynamic settings, the lower quality MB and lighting, it would be locked 60 in many of the videos you see for the GTX 1060 too....

Anyway, this is my last video on this bit, check it out.........beyond the intro, it stays above 60fps at 4k with everything at max minus AA, no dynamic settings or lower MB, lighting or car-models....

I'm trying to show you the dynamic settings that happens on XBONEX at times, detail is dynamically lowered or altered based on what's happening on screen or load, hence why you will get slightly pushed back detail or lower car lods on top of the worse MB and lighting.... Jerm is not the only one to have pointed lower lod cars btw......In your video, I noticed this....as an example...the sign, it happens with other details as well...
MaDz video shows High settings, not ULTRA. At this point xbox X version settings should be comparable, if not higher. The same with wolfenstein 2, I have purposely linked videos with low/med settings, because I know most xbox X games arnt maxed out, but even with setting at low/med GTX 1060 still have performance problems compared to xbox X at 4K dynamic (and at 4K native it's even worse 35-45fps), so it shows xbox X GPU is more capable than people are willing to admit. And the thing is, RX 580 isnt that much faster in that game (1-4 fps faster at 4K according to gamegpu benchmark results).

When it comes to your link, 52 fps dips were already in gameplay, on top of that:
-this gameplay shows interior camera (framerate is higher with that camera)
-No MSAA (Xbox X is using EQAAx2 with MSAAx2 at it's base, and even MSAAx2 is more damanding that from going from utlra to high settings alone)
-2 GHz OC (at this point results should be around 10 fps better than in MaDz video, because he was using stock clocks)

Results speak for themselves and I can see what it takes to match xbox X results on PC. CPU is not that problematic, even ancient i3 is more than enough to match xbox X results, but in order to match xbox X gpu, stock GTX 1070 is required, at least in gears of war 4, dishonored 2, rise of the tomb raider and Forza 7 (GTX 1070 also dips below 60fps in forza 7, but very rarely, and we know xbox is not using ultra settings, so with tweaks 1070 should run that game at locked 60fps with MSAAx2). When it comes to wolfenstein 2 I'm not so sure if even stock GTX 1070 can provide xbox X experience in that particular game.

GTX 1070 and still even with settings turned down and resolution scale to 80% game dips below 60fps more than xbox X version. War Thunder developer suggest xbox X GPU is even faster than GTX 1070, and in this particular game we can indeed see results that support claims like that.
 
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LuvOfThaGame

Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,067
912
270
I agree that by right the AMD card in the XBONEX should be running this better and have an advantage over the 1060, but things are a bit different with consoles, they do share a similar pipeline for CPU and GPU....However, the reality is that the PC version at max does have higher settings then the XBONEX, in fact, better MB, A higher footprint for AA (when that is applied), better lighting quality etc....XBONEX is also known to scale settings dynamically to keep the framerate locked, hence why you will have lower LOD on cars on XBONEX at times........I agree the XBONEX version looks great and runs great, especially with HDR, but I'm pretty sure if the 1060 had dynamic settings, the lower quality MB and lighting, it would be locked 60 in many of the videos you see for the GTX 1060 too....

Anyway, this is my last video on this bit, check it out.........beyond the intro, it stays above 60fps at 4k with everything at max minus AA, no dynamic settings or lower MB, lighting or car-models....

I'm trying to show you the dynamic settings that happens on XBONEX at times, detail is dynamically lowered or altered based on what's happening on screen or load, hence why you will get slightly pushed back detail or lower car lods on top of the worse MB and lighting.... Jerm is not the only one to have pointed lower lod cars btw......In your video, I noticed this....as an example...the sign, it happens with other details as well with dynamic settings to keep the framerate locked.....Not questioning that framerate should be prioritized, just showing some of the mis-matches.. that exist.....and explain why you would see some dips on the Gtx 1060 in comparison.

That looks like a loading issue, not LOD, TLW, and I think you know that. The words on the sign are completely missing, not lower in detail. It seems a lot of your examples are extremely disingenuous and get called out for being so quite often.
 

thelastword

Member
Apr 7, 2006
7,844
1,609
1,220
MaDz video shows High settings, not ULTRA. At this point xbox X version settings should be comparable, if not higher. The same with wolfenstein 2, I have purposely linked videos with low/med settings, because I know most xbox X games arnt maxed out, but even with setting at low/med GTX 1060 still have performance problems compared to xbox X at 4K dynamic (and at 4K native it's even worse 35-45fps), so it shows xbox X GPU is more capable than people are willing to admit. And the thing is, RX 580 isnt that much faster in that game (1-4 fps faster at 4K according to gamegpu benchmark results).

When it comes to your link, 52 fps dips were already in gameplay, on top of that:
-this gameplay shows interior camera (framerate is higher with that camera)
-No MSAA (Xbox X is using EQAAx2 with MSAAx2 at it's base, and even MSAAx2 is more damanding that from going from utlra to high settings alone)
-2 GHz OC (at this point results should be around 10 fps better than in MaDz video, because he was using stock clocks)

Results speak for themselves and I can see what it takes to match xbox X results on PC. CPU is not that problematic, even ancient i3 is more than enough to match xbox X results, but in order to match xbox X gpu, stock GTX 1070 is required, at least in gears of war 4, dishonored 2, rise of the tomb raider and Forza 7 (GTX 1070 also dips below 60fps in forza 7, but very rarely, and we know xbox is not using ultra settings, so with tweaks 1070 should run that game at locked 60fps with MSAAx2). When it comes to wolfenstein 2 I'm not so sure if even stock GTX 1070 can provide xbox X experience in that particular game.

GTX 1070 and still even with settings turned down and resolution scale to 80% game dips below 60fps more than xbox X version. War Thunder developer suggest xbox X GPU is even faster than GTX 1070, and in this particular game we can indeed see results that support claims like that.
Yes, but the video I showed you is at Ultra, best MB, best lighting, no dynamic settings and the lowest drop is 52 fps near the intro...That's because all the cars are at the starting line with the best lods on PC (no dynamic level of detail), that's on top of the better graphical settings....You look past the intro and it never drops below 60, even in the heavy weather part, I think you mentioned in another video that weather caused framedrops.... Also, EQAAx2 is really not much of a footprint on AMD cards.....So yes, there's no AA, but the better settings on PC have a greater hit on the GPU as it is.......I'm sure if GTX 1060 had dynamic detail it would be locked 60 just the same....

Anyways, if you believe that XBONEX GPU is performing at GTX 1070 level in the games you mentioned, then I won't go there, take care for now....
 

pawel86ck

Member
Jan 27, 2018
395
263
195
Yes, but the video I showed you is at Ultra, best MB, best lighting, no dynamic settings and the lowest drop is 52 fps near the intro...That's because all the cars are at the starting line with the best lods on PC (no dynamic level of detail), that's on top of the better graphical settings....You look past the intro and it never drops below 60, even in the heavy weather part, I think you mentioned in another video that weather caused framedrops.... Also, EQAAx2 is really not much of a footprint on AMD cards.....So yes, there's no AA, but the better settings on PC have a greater hit on the GPU as it is.......I'm sure if GTX 1060 had dynamic detail it would be locked 60 just the same....

Anyways, if you believe that XBONEX GPU is performing at GTX 1070 level in the games you mentioned, then I won't go there, take care for now....
Because that gameplay video shows GTX 1070 struggeling even with settings and resolution turned down, than I dont have to belive in anything, because then we are talking about facts. :
 
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Lort

Member
Jul 9, 2017
776
517
245
I'd just like to drop a reminder that disagreeing with someone does not mean they have broken the TOS. Thinking someone has a bad opinion or an alien perspective of a topic, or is unreceptive to your own position is not a reason to report a post. Moderators are not here to win an argument for you by taking out your opponent, who you are free to just ignore. If you believe someone is a troll, then spending many posts feeding them is surely unwise at best, complicit in derailing at worst. If you cannot come to any kind of agreement on an issue, find some common ground or don't and move on.
Ah so just to get this clear .. you are totally allowing trolling and derailing of thread, you intend to do nothing.

Youve had several complaints made about off topic derailing and troll / spam posting and you say to move on to another thread were the same person does the same thing.
 

WarpathDC

Junior Member
Oct 29, 2013
1,583
1
280
VA
My GTX 1080ti doesn't do 4k @ 60fps on some AAA games (on ultra preset). I get in the high 40s-mid 50s with the 1080ti paired with a i7-7700k @ 4.5ghz on Assassin's Creed: Origins for example. I get damn near 200 in places on Wolfenstein on 4k/Uber settings. It depends on the game and it's relative complexity, both graphically and computationally.

Assuming next gen is Ryzen/Vega tech it will be hard to achieve this on AAA open world games (although custom API and dynamic horizontal res/checkerboarding/other visual trickery etc will help). 8 tflops will be fine for 4k native output but the locked 60fps holy grail will depend on the performance of the TBD custom APUs vs the cpu dependent aspects of gaming. Some games will run 4k/60 easily, some will be unlocked and hit 60 sometimes, many open world games will look gorgeous but likely still locked at 30fps with a Native 4k image-perhaps dynamic depending on the complexity of the application.

In the end, even this gen we could have a lot more 60fps games WITH higher resolutions than FHD on the mid gen refreshes (1440p or 4k dynamic/checkerboarded). The meager Tegra X1 the switch uses circa 2015 has a good number of 60fps games that look great but have dynamic scaling etc in games like Super Mario Odyssey but most importantly amazing art direction that overcomes the technical limitations of the platform. Bottom line is most publishers still focus on image quality/resolution over frame rate.
 
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Mr. Grumpy

Grumpy see, Grumpy do.
Dec 5, 2017
221
286
0
Ah so just to get this clear .. you are totally allowing trolling and derailing of thread, you intend to do nothing.

Youve had several complaints made about off topic derailing and troll / spam posting and you say to move on to another thread were the same person does the same thing.
That's not at all what was said.

Just because somebody may have an opposing opinion to yourself doesn't mean that they're trolling, it just means that they have a different opinion to you. There is nothing in the terms of service about people having vastly different opinions, that's the entire point of having a discussion board.

Every report that we receive about any post is discussed amongst the team and assessed in relation to the ToS that all members have agreed to and how it would contribute to the forum. The report button is not a voting button to elect the removal of any member from this community that you may have taken a personal dislike to. Some reports may be dealt with quickly because they really are that simple to deal with but sometimes we have reports there for many hours due to the discussion that's taking place in the background on how best to move forward on behalf of the entire forum.

All reports are also confidential so you would not really be aware of "several complaints being made" unless they were either complaints that you registered personally or if they were complaints that were registered against you. We certainly wouldn't want to see groups of members getting together and creating an organised complaint campaign for personal reasons against other members.

If you disagree with other people's opinions then you have the opportunity to discuss those differences with them in the thread in question. If for some reason you believe that you've reached the point where you feel that you're unable to do that due to their opinions being so far removed from yours then you do have the option to simply ignore that person and just not respond to them.

That happens sometimes, it's OK to feel like that and to rise above it.
 

Louis Cyphre

Banned
Jun 5, 2011
5,321
818
470
That's not at all what was said.

Just because somebody may have an opposing opinion to yourself doesn't mean that they're trolling, it just means that they have a different opinion to you. There is nothing in the terms of service about people having vastly different opinions, that's the entire point of having a discussion board.

Every report that we receive about anything is discussed amongst the team and assessed in relation to the ToS that all members have agreed to and how it would contribute to the forum. The report button is not a voting button to elect the removal of any member from this community that you may have taken a personal dislike to. Some reports may be dealt with really quickly because they are that simple to deal with but sometimes we have reports there for many hours due to the discussion that's taking place in the background on how best to move forward on behalf of the entire forum.

All reports are also confidential so you would not really be aware of "several complaints being made" unless they were either complaints that you registered personally or if they were complaints that were registered against you. We certainly wouldn't want to see groups of members getting together and creating organised complaints campaigns for personal reasons against other members.

If you disagree with other people's opinions then you have the opportunity to discuss those differences with them in the thread in question. If for some reason you believe that you've reached the point where you feel that you're unable to do that due to their opinions being so far removed from yours then you do have the option to simply ignore that person and just not respond to them.

That happens sometimes, it's OK to feel like that and do that.
The response was to either counter his arguments or ignore him. He was also warned to keep his comments to a minimum but it appears as though he gets banned in one topic and ramps up his actions in others, even to the point of bumping threads that were dead. What exactly is the game-plan here if others do counter his arguments and he himself ignores everyone that doesn't jive with his own opinion while he embellishes everything? Of course we like different opinions, but when one's opinion is always cynical and biased towards one platform the discussion is over before it even starts. I realize the moderators can't read every thread or be bothered to look into post history but it is pretty evident if you did he's here to troll and downplay anything to do with the Xbox One X.
 

demigod

Gold Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,370
1,987
1,125
450$? So basically he is using OLD AND USED parts prices, and probably even stollen windows 10 key for 10$ (legit key is 100$ alone) and he compared that to NEW xbox X (with warranty and everything new). I'm not xbox fan (xbox fans on this site even say I'm xbox hater :p), but this is the most dishonest xbox X vs PC comparison video I have ever seen, and with current prices, even GTX 1060 is sometimes as expensive as xbox X (I have seen prices like that in my country).
2016, it really shows you know nothing about PC building.
 

Arkhan

Grand Vizier of Khemri
Staff Member
Dec 5, 2017
192
336
305
Tower of Arkhan, Nehekhara
The response was to either counter his arguments or ignore him. He was also warned to keep his comments to a minimum but it appears as though he gets banned in one topic and ramps up his actions in others, even to the point of bumping threads that were dead. What exactly is the game-plan here if others do counter his arguments and he himself ignores everyone that doesn't jive with his own opinion while he embellishes everything? Of course we like different opinions, but when one's opinion is always cynical and biased towards one platform the discussion is over before it even starts. I realize the moderators can't read every thread or be bothered to look into post history but it is pretty evident if you did he's here to troll and downplay anything to do with the Xbox One X.
If a post is reported that has not broken any rules, then it will be rejected. If a member keeps doing this as some kind of vendetta or because they do not like someones view, then I will treat it as it is, a deliberate waste of moderators time and harassment of another member of this forum. This is the fourth comment on this page from admin or moderators, and you have been told this has been looked at. Your suggestion that moderators can't be bothered to look at post history couldn't be more wrong, we just do not share your opinion of the situation having done so. I am not going to keep going back and forth on this. If you are incapable as a person of not addressing a post you disagree with, then block the member and you will never see their posts again. If you are incapable of doing either, then you are at fault.

To be absolutely clear, moderation here is not a debate between members, nor is it something we need to provide you a gameplan for because you disagree with actions taken. It is handled by a dedicated team who review, discuss and determine an outcome for each situation. Posts, history and agenda are and have been taken into account and the team do not agree with your perspective. Continued pursuit of report spamming for posts that have broken no rules will not be looked upon kindly, nor will derailing this thread further on this matter.
 

daibaron

Banned
Oct 5, 2015
130
73
200
Portugal
8tf is not needed for 4k gaming. But for gaming at "4k across the board" this gen, like Cerny said, it is true. Yes, the xox is more powerful than the pro, but it doesnt have 4k across the board. Both ps4pro and xox are cheaply made consoles, neither sony nor microsoft are doing any real effort in pushing specs forward.

Forza 7 is a very well developed 4k60 game that disguises its tricks and shortcomings quite well, but then what about pcars 2 and its much more detailed simulation.
 

DT MEDIA

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
Jan 7, 2018
403
372
300
Chicago, IL
www.dtm-arts.com
My GTX 1080ti doesn't do 4k @ 60fps on some AAA games (on ultra preset). I get in the high 40s-mid 50s with the 1080ti paired with a i7-7700k @ 4.5ghz on Assassin's Creed: Origins for example. I get damn near 200 in places on Wolfenstein on 4k/Uber settings. It depends on the game and it's relative complexity, both graphically and computationally.

Assuming next gen is Ryzen/Vega tech it will be hard to achieve this on AAA open world games (although custom API and dynamic horizontal res/checkerboarding/other visual trickery etc will help). 8 tflops will be fine for 4k native output but the locked 60fps holy grail will depend on the performance of the TBD custom APUs vs the cpu dependent aspects of gaming. Some games will run 4k/60 easily, some will be unlocked and hit 60 sometimes, many open world games will look gorgeous but likely still locked at 30fps with a Native 4k image-perhaps dynamic depending on the complexity of the application.

In the end, even this gen we could have a lot more 60fps games WITH higher resolutions than FHD on the mid gen refreshes (1440p or 4k dynamic/checkerboarded). The meager Tegra X1 the switch uses circa 2015 has a good number of 60fps games that look great but have dynamic scaling etc in games like Super Mario Odyssey but most importantly amazing art direction that overcomes the technical limitations of the platform. Bottom line is most publishers still focus on image quality/resolution over frame rate.

Agreed. We are waaaaaaay past the point where "hardware specs" mean anything in videogames. Software developers can create anything they can imagine, and it will look spectacular. If modern games are not running at 60 fps, it's only because those developers made the decision not to do so. Heck, I have Saturn and Dreamcast games that play at 60 fps, and the Playstation 4/Xbox One/Switch must easily be a million times more powerful.
 

shpankey

not an idiot
Jun 6, 2004
10,640
88
1,475
Ok.
Yeah, good point. If developers target 60fps, especially from the get-go, it can be achieved. They may have to sacrifice specific things to make it happen, but it's all about what they want to do and what they feel is important or not.
 
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mckmas8808

Member
May 24, 2005
40,915
3,831
1,560
Yeah, good point. If developers target 60fps, especially from the get-go, it can be achieved. They may have to sacrifice specific things to make it happen, but it's all about what they want to do and what they feel is important or not.
I'd hate video games if all devs target 60 fps. It's not needed for all games.