irfaanator
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Who gives a shit
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Marvel Vs. Capcom: Infinite Characters and Stages Roster |DT2| oh dear...
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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nah these are issues i've got with the game as well, and why i need to delve into actual competitive play/non-showroom play to really get a good feel for how much i dislike those aspects and what i actually do like beyond dunking on people and ultron
and no you can't activate infinity storm if the other guy does it. reality is really good in this sense bc you can actively use it to stop the other guy from turning his on preemptively since it's great for offensively attempting to keep the lead/finishing them off instead of actively letting you kill them or get a hit with less tools. it just kinda stops them from being able to do horseshit at you without risking eating hidden missiles-esque interruptions that lead to their death or close
btw you're on the nose about burning bar imo, resets into blowing bar is easily better right now given the scaling/meter balance. supers at the end of most combos are outright not worth it unless it's some supers like proton cannon. but if you hit someone with a super and tag there's no scaling on it a all. armored X super buster tag into zero will kill the shit out of you from 100%
edit:
i've yet to see anyone mention that your gem bar is refilled to activation level or higher once a char dies on your team so you can activate, have a char die then activate again
AWizardDidIt
Member
Love the write up about your experiences Seyavesh. Thanks for taking the time to do that.
she actually doesnt even look bad in that picture? or maybe im just used to it now I dunno.
It's a fan edit.
she doesn't look bad because she's photoshopped.
I don't like how there is no scaling after hitting someone with a hyper. I guess they are using the SF system of scaling and not basing it on hits. That makes sense but I feel like it opens up way too many situations where you can do random hyper tag into full combo from full screen especially to punish two characters.
Is it random, or is it a punish?
Waddle Dee
Member
Yeah, the scaling seems really off. That and having next to no chip damage is going to make damage output really hard to get used to.
Random in the sense someone is going to throw out a hail mary super and then tag.
If it gets blocked, it's fine... they tagged out a weakened character and get to pressure with the tagged in hero.
If they get a hit, then they get a free combo.
If they get 2 characters, then they get a happy birthday.
I feel like this is going to be a common thing in the game.
So basically business as usual with the only key difference being that the only way you can punish your opponent's partner is if they choose to tag in their other person at the wrong time. Pretty sure that we will get to see some special moments that will get both players, however outside of that "Shame Cube" moment that we saw with Jedah, it makes me wonder how hard some players will have to work to make that happen if they get lucky with their Happy Birthday.
In the CEO build, super flash eats inputs (like SF4). Tuboware was fishing for Gimlets against me like mad and his success rate was super low. Plus, meter is not easy to get in this game at all, so he had nothing left for mixups, safe tags, or tag counters.
If your strategy is to randomly do beam supers hoping you'll catch me tagging out, well, that means you aren't playing very well, and if you are catching me, I'm not playing very well either.
If this was under Marvel 3's scaling, doing random super into tag would not have resulted in that much damage because the number of hits would've been high. In this game the scaling is different, hypers don't scale your follow up combo that much which means hyper into tag into combo does serious damage. That's my real concern there, getting a combo off of hail mary super is fine but if that's super effective/efficient then it's going to damage the game.
ColonialHawk
Member
If you hit some one with a super full screen, you deserve the follow-up combo. At fullscreen it was so easy to block or avoid the super and punish it. The meter build is pretty slow so just doing that stuff will put you at a disadvantage.
I think I'm not buying this game anytime soon. 
I really wanted to like this game. I was enthusiastic as heck when it was first revealed, even with the lacklustre showing graphically. I defended it, presumed it was a work in progress, and waited for more info. And then there was a drought of it. And I tried to stay positive and did a whole little series of posts of characters I really wanted. "Neat and original characters and ideas", I though. "I bet they'll have something like this! A dual character in Cloak and Dagger! A cool throwback to the GCN era with interesting mechanics with Vanessa Schneider! Moonstone! Shadowcat! Lady! Wasp! Maybe someone from Rival Schools, like Natsu, Akira or Batsu! Moon Girl+Devil Dinosaur? An inhuman? Regina?" And they didn't. The roster leaked after a bunch of time without info. Only one new Capcom franchise is represented. Only three new characters in the Marvel side, all from the Avengers franchises.
Gameplaywise, the scaling and (lack of) options while tagging make it sound like the game might be a bit stale from the get-go, which, hey, it's Marvel, those tend to get stale after a while, no matter! But hey, I'm a scrub, I'll never play competitive so what to I care?
Rosterwise, there's nothing interesting in this for me. No "out there" picks at all. Nothing as crazy as M.O.D.O.K. or Amaterasu; and only 4 female characters with anything else DLC? Assuming any of the first year DLC characters are female which I doubt (see UMVC3's new characters) and that the game sells enough that Capcom and Marvel give it a second season.
Graphicswise, looking at game more game footage and impressions, Capcom shot themselves in the foot by presenting the game in flatly lit stages like Xgard, which makes the characters that look "fine" look dull, and the characters that look "bad" look worse. And seriously, beefy proportions for certain male characters look Liefeldian and farcical, and others have faces like crack addicts or in one case a stuffed raccoon. The artstyle (if you can call it that, because there's not really any artsyle or artwork) is unflattering to practically all the game characters.
Problem is first impressions are everything and Infinite currently has horrid ones. :/
And it saddens me that I won't play the game when it comes out. And it saddens me that it might not be that successful which might kill the series. So maybe I'm part of the problem? Maybe I should buy a game I no longer want, with characters I don't care about and gameplay systems that sound (paradoxically) simultaneously broken and boring?
I dunno. I dunno what even the point of this post is. I guess I'm trying to put into words what I feel about this game, kinda justify to myself why I'm not buying it. I love this series, but this entry seems to have lost me in the worst way. In the way that I will keep following the game and scene, but not buy it. That's kinda sad? Like on my part? Like a crazy ex stalking someone through social media. I guess that's something for me to think about. :|
I really wanted to like this game. I was enthusiastic as heck when it was first revealed, even with the lacklustre showing graphically. I defended it, presumed it was a work in progress, and waited for more info. And then there was a drought of it. And I tried to stay positive and did a whole little series of posts of characters I really wanted. "Neat and original characters and ideas", I though. "I bet they'll have something like this! A dual character in Cloak and Dagger! A cool throwback to the GCN era with interesting mechanics with Vanessa Schneider! Moonstone! Shadowcat! Lady! Wasp! Maybe someone from Rival Schools, like Natsu, Akira or Batsu! Moon Girl+Devil Dinosaur? An inhuman? Regina?" And they didn't. The roster leaked after a bunch of time without info. Only one new Capcom franchise is represented. Only three new characters in the Marvel side, all from the Avengers franchises.
Gameplaywise, the scaling and (lack of) options while tagging make it sound like the game might be a bit stale from the get-go, which, hey, it's Marvel, those tend to get stale after a while, no matter! But hey, I'm a scrub, I'll never play competitive so what to I care?
Rosterwise, there's nothing interesting in this for me. No "out there" picks at all. Nothing as crazy as M.O.D.O.K. or Amaterasu; and only 4 female characters with anything else DLC? Assuming any of the first year DLC characters are female which I doubt (see UMVC3's new characters) and that the game sells enough that Capcom and Marvel give it a second season.
Graphicswise, looking at game more game footage and impressions, Capcom shot themselves in the foot by presenting the game in flatly lit stages like Xgard, which makes the characters that look "fine" look dull, and the characters that look "bad" look worse. And seriously, beefy proportions for certain male characters look Liefeldian and farcical, and others have faces like crack addicts or in one case a stuffed raccoon. The artstyle (if you can call it that, because there's not really any artsyle or artwork) is unflattering to practically all the game characters.
Problem is first impressions are everything and Infinite currently has horrid ones. :/
And it saddens me that I won't play the game when it comes out. And it saddens me that it might not be that successful which might kill the series. So maybe I'm part of the problem? Maybe I should buy a game I no longer want, with characters I don't care about and gameplay systems that sound (paradoxically) simultaneously broken and boring?
I dunno. I dunno what even the point of this post is. I guess I'm trying to put into words what I feel about this game, kinda justify to myself why I'm not buying it. I love this series, but this entry seems to have lost me in the worst way. In the way that I will keep following the game and scene, but not buy it. That's kinda sad? Like on my part? Like a crazy ex stalking someone through social media. I guess that's something for me to think about. :|
no, following / watching a game you dont buy isnt sad at all. Its completely normal. Like are you even talking about? Especially in this day and age.Do you buy every fighting game yo watch on Evo? I sure as hell dont.
you could also wait for the game to be out and watch people play it, and then decide if it looks like something you want or not.
You dont have to pre order or dcide right now lol
you could also wait for the game to be out and watch people play it, and then decide if it looks like something you want or not.
You dont have to pre order or dcide right now lol
I guess, I'm just being weird.
DaytimeWhiskey
Banned
I don't own SFV or even a PS4 (yet) still watch a grip of SFV matches and tournies while keeping an eye on tech and new stuff. I play it once a month at most, still love it though
About what? This is such an out of context, abrasive post that made me laugh for a minute straight. Thank you.
Doctrine Dark
Member
A lot of Marvel fans feel how you feel right now, Zero. I'm looking forward to the game, but Capcom's antics has killed the hype for it.
Baron Von Beans
Member
Everything I have read about concerning the actual gameplay states that it is fantastic. But there are glaring issues elsewhere.
Not to mention, the game still is a couple months out, there's still plenty of time for tweaking things. Or even post launch support even. And the full character roster isn't out yet. I hate everything about the announced lineup, save a few characters, but otherwise I feel there is hope. I'm buying this day 1, copped it during the $40 deal on Amazon. And I can't freakin wait
Jawmuncher
Member
Hell it's not like Capcom fans aren't feeling that struggle as well with the lack of newcomers and odd picks in returnees.
That $40 sale is the main reason i'm still getting it. Wasn't gonna cave at that 45 or more.
Doctrine Dark
Member
Jaw, when I say "Marvel", it's meant to describe MVC fans as a whole. I always just say Marvel (ie "I'm about to play Marvel. I love Marvel. Marvel is ass" etc) when talking about the series.
I can see how it can create confusion, though.
I can see how it can create confusion, though.
Thanks Seyavesh for the wright up.
Exact things I was worried about from the DEMO you touch on. You give fucking real impressions with proper concerns from the point of view of a Marvel player.
The fucking movement in this game is sooooo stupid the more I had played the demo over and over again. I have no idea why Combofiend and the rest of Marvel dev team agreed to fuck over the most important part of a Marvel game which is movement. Do they really think removing ground plink dashing, slowing down wave dashing, and fucking over air plinks would end up with a better game? Fuck me. Up to us as players to find "glitches" around it I guess (like plink dashing was found in MVC3). Even comparing it to MVC2's movement one can see it does not touch it.
Another thing I don't see people ever point out is how janky the hit stop animations, bounce, and overall animations are compared to MVC3 people that have put a ton of time into UMVC3 or the like know how smooth the animations transition while in this game they feel off.
I'll be buying day 1 just hope I can grow a custom to the changes and love the fuck out of this game like I do past Marvel games.
Exact things I was worried about from the DEMO you touch on. You give fucking real impressions with proper concerns from the point of view of a Marvel player.
The fucking movement in this game is sooooo stupid the more I had played the demo over and over again. I have no idea why Combofiend and the rest of Marvel dev team agreed to fuck over the most important part of a Marvel game which is movement. Do they really think removing ground plink dashing, slowing down wave dashing, and fucking over air plinks would end up with a better game? Fuck me. Up to us as players to find "glitches" around it I guess (like plink dashing was found in MVC3). Even comparing it to MVC2's movement one can see it does not touch it.
Another thing I don't see people ever point out is how janky the hit stop animations, bounce, and overall animations are compared to MVC3 people that have put a ton of time into UMVC3 or the like know how smooth the animations transition while in this game they feel off.
I'll be buying day 1 just hope I can grow a custom to the changes and love the fuck out of this game like I do past Marvel games.
Plink dashing wasn't in Marvel 2. Plink dashing is a result of input leniency in Marvel 3.
It was clearly an unintended mechanic. It definitely created bigger gaps in movement when Magneto could plink dash and Iron Man couldn't.
Hit stop animations in the game are definitely super jank. Makes it look even more low budget.
It was clearly an unintended mechanic. It definitely created bigger gaps in movement when Magneto could plink dash and Iron Man couldn't.
Hit stop animations in the game are definitely super jank. Makes it look even more low budget.
Jawmuncher
Member
what even is plink dashing
Yet people act like it's some giant important marvel staple. That's the kind of shit that drives me crazy.
Like, you guys really don't think people wont find new tech and movement options?
roflwaffles
Member
Plinking is fun
Doctrine Dark
Member
I never even know how to plink, lol.
New game. New options. I'll learn.
New game. New options. I'll learn.
Baron Von Beans
Member
I feel ya, I know that was a big thing for a lot of people. To be quite frank'n'beans though, I'm pretty sure i would buy it even for 60. Despite all my grumblings about the character roster, I'd still jump right in. The way the gems can completely change the team dynamic is one thing I can't wait to try out
Jawmuncher
Member
Only attachment I have to marvel V capcom is the characters as Doctrine Dark described above
roflwaffles
Member
I kinda feel like I should wait for the first major before buying this game, just to see how interesting the tech gets before I invest in this since I don't really like the roster and the movement changes so far.
That and if the netcode sucks, this game is gonna have a real hard road ahead of it.
That and if the netcode sucks, this game is gonna have a real hard road ahead of it.
Without a doubt the majority of people who've played the game seem to be negative about the clunky or flat out slow dashes, but I do remember either RayRay or the select pros who got backroom hands-on time at E3 saying it's still possible to wavedash and stuff but the timing etc. works differently but you can still do it and move just as fast as Marvel 3.
I can see it being a huge turn off, but this happens every go around. People think it's irredeemably slow until weeks two-to-four when people crack the code when they've had training mode time and the game ends up being fast and free enough. Same thing happened with MvC3, even with more opportunities to get hands on.
This is why I take a lot of pre-release impressions with a grain of salt. It's hard to have the foresight without training mode, and even though Combo's been pretty on the money thus far about the Marvel nuttiness still being there, and I've no doubt there's a lot that's rigid when it comes to the stuff Seyavesh and others have picked up, there's not much explaining or in-depth demoing going on (the best we've had is the maybe 15-20 mins we got on the Capcom-Unity stream at E3) and many of what we consider to be fundamental techniques only emerge after people get to picking at the sandbox.
I don't blame anyone adding this stuff to their list of reasons not to buy MvC:I, but I'm skeptical that the developers didn't have the foresight for this kind of stuff, because they usually do in the gameplay realm, and when they don't it's usually because they let in too much crazy shit.
I can see it being a huge turn off, but this happens every go around. People think it's irredeemably slow until weeks two-to-four when people crack the code when they've had training mode time and the game ends up being fast and free enough. Same thing happened with MvC3, even with more opportunities to get hands on.
This is why I take a lot of pre-release impressions with a grain of salt. It's hard to have the foresight without training mode, and even though Combo's been pretty on the money thus far about the Marvel nuttiness still being there, and I've no doubt there's a lot that's rigid when it comes to the stuff Seyavesh and others have picked up, there's not much explaining or in-depth demoing going on (the best we've had is the maybe 15-20 mins we got on the Capcom-Unity stream at E3) and many of what we consider to be fundamental techniques only emerge after people get to picking at the sandbox.
I don't blame anyone adding this stuff to their list of reasons not to buy MvC:I, but I'm skeptical that the developers didn't have the foresight for this kind of stuff, because they usually do in the gameplay realm, and when they don't it's usually because they let in too much crazy shit.
always happens, with every sequel to fighters.
Karsticles
Member
Games get embraced generation-over-generation because:
1) Casual players get hype for new things.
2) Competitive players follow the money.
3) Everyone likes to hope that the developer will fix how shitty their game is with future patches.
Not because people are "doom and gloom" and then discover the game is actually amazing. A lot of SFV players really do not like SFV, but SFIV gets zero cash support so there's no reason to play it. If Capcom didn't give SFV any support, I think its tournament scene would suffer a significant drop. Players realizing that 3) was never happening for MvC3 is basically what killed the game.
In Marvel 3, it turned out that plinking two buttons after dashing would cancel your current dash into another dash. IIRC, it did something like cancel your first dash into an attack, but then the plink button fixes the input and you perform a second dash instead. This was important for movement because it was MUCH faster than wavedashing, which is done by dash -> tap down -> dash. Now you can just plink over and over. The downside is that a missed plink results in an attack coming out, which means a failed plink dash usually has you attacking absolutely nothing in the middle of the neutral, and there's a good chance you'll die. Only a handful of Marvel 3 players can consistently plink dash around the screen.
Personally, I hate plinking because I can't do it consistently. lol
1) Casual players get hype for new things.
2) Competitive players follow the money.
3) Everyone likes to hope that the developer will fix how shitty their game is with future patches.
Not because people are "doom and gloom" and then discover the game is actually amazing. A lot of SFV players really do not like SFV, but SFIV gets zero cash support so there's no reason to play it. If Capcom didn't give SFV any support, I think its tournament scene would suffer a significant drop. Players realizing that 3) was never happening for MvC3 is basically what killed the game.
Plinking is when you press one input within a frame of another. It's not a simultaneous button press, it's just a little separated. In most games it doesn't matter at all, but in Street Fighter IV it became a big deal because there were 1-frame link combos. If you input two inputs in a row in SFIV, IIRC the first input became the same kind of input as the second one (I might have this backwards, and it might have needed to go in ascending button strength or something - I didn't play SFIV much). This basically let you "double tap" an input and make any 1-frame link a 2-frame link. That's a huge deal for the game's hardest combos.
In Marvel 3, it turned out that plinking two buttons after dashing would cancel your current dash into another dash. IIRC, it did something like cancel your first dash into an attack, but then the plink button fixes the input and you perform a second dash instead. This was important for movement because it was MUCH faster than wavedashing, which is done by dash -> tap down -> dash. Now you can just plink over and over. The downside is that a missed plink results in an attack coming out, which means a failed plink dash usually has you attacking absolutely nothing in the middle of the neutral, and there's a good chance you'll die. Only a handful of Marvel 3 players can consistently plink dash around the screen.
Personally, I hate plinking because I can't do it consistently. lol
Baron Von Beans
Member
I haven't heard much about recent impressions, or anything outside of e3. Still, I don't really listen to people's impressions as much due to everyone having different levels of acceptability with what they want. Some people might find the dashing slow, while others think it's ok. I'm gauging everything I feel about the game based on the gameplay footage done by people who have a pretty dang decent grasp on the mechanics. If you can see how it plays on levels beyond intermediate, surely that should mean something? Yes you don't know how the game literally feels during that caliber of play, but you can see that it's entirely possible to have crazy amounts of action going off.
secretanchitman
Member
Yep, the MVCI panel is on Friday and I can't wait!
ColonialHawk
Member
I feel the same as Max. I played a few games of DBZ and I like it but after awhile I just kept going back to marvel to try new stuff.
Valkerionseven
Member
This game just hurts my eyes visually. Like I've literally never seen a game with so much chromatic aberration that is actually makes it difficult to look at and blurry. Feels like my eyes are not focused when looking at it.
I dig the gameplay more than I thought and it's got Captain Marvel and Jedah so I'm in for that front. But holy crap it makes me dizzy. Hopefully the PC version will have mods/ options to turn it off.
That said though, hope Chun-Li stays viable through the rest of the character reveals. Would love for my girl to be a top tier in this title.
I dig the gameplay more than I thought and it's got Captain Marvel and Jedah so I'm in for that front. But holy crap it makes me dizzy. Hopefully the PC version will have mods/ options to turn it off.
That said though, hope Chun-Li stays viable through the rest of the character reveals. Would love for my girl to be a top tier in this title.
Plink dashing is still in MVCi it's just limited to flight characters and air only. So seems very strange why they would remove ground plinks though.
It really opened up a new world of movement options in mid to high level play offline in MVC3 and gave characters that had shitty wave dashing a chance to be played.
If you put in the time to learn plink dashing it was so rewarding. For high level players air plink dashing will be a must in MVCi and will put grounded opponents in a bigger disadvantage since they don't have access to plinks.
I'm thankful air plinks were not removed, but right now grounded movement is what good players will grind out to find optimisation / "glitches" for since that right now seems to be a weak point fighting 8 way characters. I look forward to seeing how movement is optimised since that to me is the hallmarks of a Marvel game.
Note: As for Marvel 2 compared to MVCi movement wise. MVC2 smokes it as well due to how fast 8 way dashing was along with even ground wave dashing.
Wish game was out already so I could hit the lab lol.
It really opened up a new world of movement options in mid to high level play offline in MVC3 and gave characters that had shitty wave dashing a chance to be played.
If you put in the time to learn plink dashing it was so rewarding. For high level players air plink dashing will be a must in MVCi and will put grounded opponents in a bigger disadvantage since they don't have access to plinks.
I'm thankful air plinks were not removed, but right now grounded movement is what good players will grind out to find optimisation / "glitches" for since that right now seems to be a weak point fighting 8 way characters. I look forward to seeing how movement is optimised since that to me is the hallmarks of a Marvel game.
Note: As for Marvel 2 compared to MVCi movement wise. MVC2 smokes it as well due to how fast 8 way dashing was along with even ground wave dashing.
Wish game was out already so I could hit the lab lol.
I'm thinking they got rid of ground plink dashing because the 2D area length on screen seems less and the character models are larger. Plink dashing would be silly with that limited amount of space. They're making it so special moves and simple movement will yield good results in terms of moving and controlling space. While I enjoyed doing plink dashing in MvC3 I don't think I'll miss it in this game.
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
Yup. It's not a negative towards DBZF at all. There's just not a ton of characters and stuff to try out. Looking forward to some more mechanics coming that utilizes teams more as well.
That shit bothers me too. It is very hard too look at.
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