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[Sparse]

What the fuck... What the fuck?

 

[GAMEPROFF]

So is Killing Joke Joker supposed to equal silver age and post crises Joker, or does OG Joker carry on to Silver Age and Killing Joke Joker is just post crises Joker.


Joke joke joker joking joke

Nobody knows yet.

 

[Adnor]

is Valiant any good? because i've thought about dipping my toes. got about 20 issues of...XO Manowar and it was weird but quite fun. That freshness was certainly cool,. but I like both sides of the coin at times.

X-O, Harbinger, Archer & Armstrong and Ninjak are pretty good, I haven't read the rest tho.

 

[Dysun]

Sounds interesting to me, will pick up some DC titles going forward

 

[GAMEPROFF]

That Interview sounds great, fills me with confidence

 

[KOMANI]

is Valiant any good? because i've thought about dipping my toes. got about 20 issues of...XO Manowar and it was weird but quite fun. That freshness was certainly cool,. but I like both sides of the coin at times.

Most of valiant is good.
But don't go by me because I rarely read comics. Last three comics I wanted to read were Multiversity, Sandman Overture, and Secret War (didn't finish it)

 

[Bobby Roberts]

What race would that make the Thermians?

Thermians stay the Thermians

 

[KOMANI]

All of these are "controversial" moves (except bringing back JSA). I hope thought was put into it.
I didn't mind the before watchmen stuff, and I don't mind this. I just think DC have stronger characters in the actual source material that watchmen is based on. Pax America is evidence of this. But again, it's a controversial move to sell books in order to beat Marvel for a month or two. Then what?

 

[Blues1990]

This is why I stick to one-shots and limited series, as I find it to be more enjoyable reading superhero stories that are more self contained. It's probably why I can easily read The New Frontier & Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, as they are such secluded stories that are not interconnected to a greater scheme.

I can't be the only one who feels this way.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

This is why I stick to one-shots and limited series, as I find it to be more enjoyable reading superhero stories that are more self contained. It's probably why I can easily read The New Frontier & Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, as they are such secluded stories that are not interconnected to a greater scheme.

I can't be the only one who feels this way.

I used to read comics more regularly but yeah now I'm feeling more like you.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Thermians stay the Thermians

Or Termites, or something. And this this Sarris shows up.

 

[Savitar]

First interview I've seen with Johns on this. Here's his take/spin/whatever you want to call it on the Watchmen twist, for what it's worth:


Personally, I find this rationale thoroughly unconvincing; if his intent was not to criticize Watchmen itself, but rather just subsequent creators misinterpreting Watchmen as an "instruction manual," then that intent is hopelessly muddled by the decision to cast an actual character from Watchmen as the villain. But I guess more subtle and well-thought-out metacommentary wouldn't have had the same headline-grabbing shock value.

The real crazy thing is that Johns basically did everything that he's supposedly now against for the last what, decade?

I mean he's had a pretty high profile at DC for years now, he preached the Nu52 as much as anyone. Suddenly he's had this revelation? But like all his fave characters I suppose it's not his fault. I mean, that's just silly talk.

It's someone else's fault.

Huh, it really is like all his favorite character isn't it.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

The real crazy thing is that Johns basically did everything that he's supposedly now against for the last what, decade?

I mean he's had a pretty high profile at DC for years now, he preached the Nu52 as much as anyone. Suddenly he's had this revelation? But like all his fave characters I suppose it's not his fault. I mean, that's just silly talk.

It's someone else's fault.

Huh, it really is like all his favorite character isn't it.

He has to preach it, he is a high profile writer at DC.

 

[weshes195]

is Valiant any good? because i've thought about dipping my toes. got about 20 issues of...XO Manowar and it was weird but quite fun. That freshness was certainly cool,. but I like both sides of the coin at times.

I haven't read comics in a bit (life was so busy I had to go on a little break from it) but Valiant is awesome (at least the ones I read). I just bought the first 3 issues of their event last year and it is so good.

DEFINATELY read (at least a couple of issues) Harbinger. Definitely my favorite series from them.Reading that made me think that Valiant had a chance of becoming bigger. And they have grown quickly in the few years they have been (re)created.

 

[NeonZ]

The real crazy thing is that Johns basically did everything that he's supposedly now against for the last what, decade?

I mean he's had a pretty high profile at DC for years now, he preached the Nu52 as much as anyone. Suddenly he's had this revelation? But like all his fave characters I suppose it's not his fault. I mean, that's just silly talk.

It's someone else's fault.

Huh, it really is like all his favorite character isn't it.

I think he's being pretty hypocritical about the darkness and violence, considering how his stories are pretty heavy on shock value moments, but I don't think he was ever fully on board with the New52.

Yeah, he preached it in interviews, but he's working for DC, he needs to do that. His writing showed otherwise. His Green Lantern book pretty much continued like nothing had happened for a while. In Justice League, he had Superman excusing himself for his New 52 early days, saying that he was wrong for attempting to take an active role, while he sometimes still acted similarly to early Superman under other writers. In the beginning of Darkseid war, he referenced a wrong Superman origin when doing quick flashbacks to the beginning of each hero.

When he wrote Action for an arc, he immediately tried to make the status quo closer to before, bringing Clark back to the Daily Planet, referencing his "death" against Doomsday, and even doing away with the nanotech costume, aside from the cape (although this was almost immediately ignored by other writers, which is rather surprising, considering how it came from Johns).

 

[Vyer]

I think he's being pretty hypocritical about the darkness and violence, considering how his stories are pretty heavy on shock value moments, but I don't think he was ever fully on board with the New52.

Yeah, he preached it in interviews, but he's working for DC, he needs to do that. His writing showed otherwise. His Green Lantern book pretty much continued like nothing had happened for a while. In Justice League, he had Superman excusing himself for his New 52 early days, saying that he was wrong for attempting to take an active role, while he sometimes still acted similarly to early Superman under other writers. In the beginning of Darkseid war, he referenced a wrong origin when due quick flashbacks to the beginning of each hero.

When he wrote Action for an arc, he immediately tried to make the status quo closer to before, bringing Clark back to the Daily Planet, reference his "death" against Doomsday, and even doing away with the nanotech costume, aside from the cape (although somehow this was almost immediately ignored by other writers, surprisingly).

I wish I could find the interview, but I could have sworn I read somewhere either Johns or Didio saying that he had to be convinced about New 52 at the beginning.

 

[LordRaptor]

Here's his take/spin/whatever you want to call it on the Watchmen twist, for what it's worth:

Johns believes, correctly, that the core message of Watchmen was grossly misunderstood and manipulated in decades following its release. The comic, Johns believes, was a warning not to become disillusioned with the values that have defined DC from the beginning: justice, legacies, epic storytelling, love. Watchmen was not an instruction manual for writing contemporary hero comics.

...

Readers, and Johns himself, believe the creators of the ‘New 52’ comics, in part incorrectly inspired by what they thought was a manifesto in Watchmen, are to blame for the loss of many beloved storylines and distinctive tones across DC’s pantheon.

This is like... Adam Sandler complaining too many ex-SNL comedians cash in on their names by releasing shitty films they made with their buddies purely for the cash

The real crazy thing is that Johns basically did everything that he's supposedly now against for the last what, decade?

yeah, basically this

 

[Earthanoid]

So instead of a reboot to bring in new readers, they are writing a convoluted story that requires knowledge of the last few decades of comics to understand? Seems like a good plan.

Also seems kind of ridiculous that Batman never noticed that the Joker was several different people.

 

[NeonZ]

So instead of a reboot to bring in new readers, they are writing a convoluted story that requires knowledge of the last few decades of comics to understand? Seems like a good plan.

Also seems kind of ridiculous that Batman never noticed that the Joker was several different people.

The actual jumping on point will be the upcoming #1 issues, not these Rebirth one shots, which are meant to transition the current series into the new ones.

 

[firehawk12]

So wait, the whole New 52 thing was pointless?

 

[Vyer]

The real crazy thing is that Johns basically did everything that he's supposedly now against for the last what, decade?

how so?

I mean, I get that there has been some grim scenes or violence in some of Johns' work. But that doesn't exactly negate the point, nor IMO is it correct to act as though a lot of those values he talks about aren't ever present in his work.

So wait, the whole New 52 thing was pointless?

as opposed to what?

Can't really say much for sure until the books are actually out, but at face value I don't see why this makes it any more or less pointless than most other superhero comic events or relaunches

 

[Corpsepyre]

That interview....I just can't. What the hell, Johns? I still can't believe they did this. With Watchmen of all fucking books.

 

[Poodlestrike]

So wait, the whole New 52 thing was pointless?

Apparently not?

I mean, it's all still canon, and the events therein form the basis of most of the ongoing books.

 

[Sou Da]

What is Jon trying to accomplish and why is he so awful at it?

 

[firehawk12]

Apparently not?

I mean, it's all still canon, and the events therein form the basis of most of the ongoing books.

I mean the idea of rebooting the universe so you don't need to know anything other than the New 52 stuff.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Western comics are confusing, but this is Super confusing. Why are they doing this? What are they trying to accomplish? Are sales of the new books tanking?

 

[SpaceWolf]

Edit: Wrong thread..

 

[Ashby]

First interview I've seen with Johns on this. Here's his take/spin/whatever you want to call it on the Watchmen twist, for what it's worth:







Personally, I find this rationale thoroughly unconvincing; if his intent was not to criticize Watchmen itself, but rather just subsequent creators misinterpreting Watchmen as an "instruction manual," then that intent is hopelessly muddled by the decision to cast an actual character from Watchmen as the villain. But I guess more subtle and well-thought-out metacommentary wouldn't have had the same headline-grabbing shock value.

Sounds like Johns saw that old Alan Moore interview that periodically pops up because he's saying here exactly what Moore did regarding how creators reacted to Watchmen the "wrong" way.

 

[sn00zer]

Soooo what happened to new 52?

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I hate how neither DC nor Marvel have the balls to do a full reboot of their comics. Ultimate Marvel was its own universe (which they eventually fucked up so bad they folded it into the main one or something) and even New 52 treated a lot of past shit as canon despite its main goal being drawing in new readers with fresh continuity.

Considering how low comic sales are right now what more do they have to lose? Why can't either company go all the way and start from scratch?

And on the subject of these plot lines, wow, just wow. Can't wait for them to eventually make a story where Joker is Batman's Father/Son/Uncle/Long Lost Twin. Hell, Joker was already Bruce's mom FFS.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I really wish they'd reboot the whole thing, erase all past continuity, and move on. Like what the New 52 was supposed to be, wasn't it?

Also, three Jokers? Fucking LMAO.

 

[mere_immortal]

Hell, Joker was already Bruce's mom FFS.

wut

 

[Einchy]

I hate how neither DC nor Marvel have the balls to do a full reboot of their comics. Ultimate Marvel was its own universe (which they eventually fucked up so bad they folded it into the main one or something) and even New 52 treated a lot of past shit as canon despite its main goal being drawing in new readers with fresh continuity.

Considering how low comic sales are right now what more do they have to lose? Why can't either company go all the way and start from scratch?

And on the subject of these plot lines, wow, just wow. Can't wait for them to eventually make a story where Joker is Batman's Father/Son/Uncle/Long Lost Twin. Hell, Joker was already Bruce's mom FFS.

How to piss off all of your readership in 1 easy step.

 

[LordRaptor]

wut

Azzarellos Flashpoint Batman was basically the only readable thing that happened in that event.
Could easily have just been an elseworlds though, unfortunately.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

How to piss off all of your readership in 1 easy step.

Based on what I read on GAF and other threads the readership is perpetually pissed.

And they still buy regardless.

 

[The Silver]

DC has rebooted before and all it does is end up becoming exactly as convoluted as before and then you have to do another "reboot" to fix that and on and on, you get trapped in a cycle.

Marvel learned that lesson with Ultimate as it very quickly became as unwieldy as 616 and that's how shit like Ultimatum happens under the guise of making clean slate again.

 

[Ashby]

Based on what I read on GAF and other threads the readership is perpetually pissed.

And they still buy regardless.

Nah. They got a customer back in me. I said I would start buying DC books again when they brought Wally back and i intend to stick to my word.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

So I stopped reading comics years ago, and decided to look at what the mainline DC titles had been up to lately. Holy shit.

There's a Batman, Batgirl, and Batwoman. A Superman, Supergirl, and Superwoman (who is actually Lois), plus a Chinese Superman, Superman's son, and Lex with a Superman power suit. And now three Jokers. And they'll be shipping lots of their titles twice monthly.

When did DC just decide "fuck it, let's dilute everything that people like because money"?

 

[Ashby]

So I stopped reading comics years ago, and decided to look at what the mainline DC titles had been up to lately. Holy shit.

There's a Batman, Batgirl, and Batwoman. A Superman, Supergirl, and Superwoman (who is actually Lois), plus a Chinese Superman, Superman's son, and Lex with a Superman power suit. And now three Jokers. And they'll be shipping lots of their titles twice monthly.

When did DC just decide "fuck it, let's dilute everything that people like because money"?

You forgot a Superman.

 

[KOMANI]

I really wish they'd reboot the whole thing, erase all past continuity, and move on. Like what the New 52 was supposed to be, wasn't it?

Also, three Jokers? Fucking LMAO.

They don't have the patience for that. In the new 52 we already had 4 Robins (shut up if you're going to correct me and tell me Tim was Red Robin). They didn't have that balls to reset Green Lantern and Batman, which created problems in neighboring books like Teen Titans.

 

[LordRaptor]

Nah. They got a customer back in me. I said I would start buying DC books again when they brought Wally back and i intend to stick to my word.

I completely dropped DC after... I guess 6 months or so into Nu52, not because I'm super attached to continuity, but because Nu52 was... just not good. I mean, when COIE happened way back when, the thing that replaced it was really exciting with actual good writing - once upon a time the big difference between Marvel and DC was that DC had good writers.

I'll give Rebirth a shot, but if its just adding continuity porn to 90s level XXXTREME! Image style books, I'm right back out again.

I know its old fashioned, but if getting new readers is part of the plan, those silver age "Want to know what this character is talking about? Check out SPECIFIC_COMIC_REFERENCE" editorial boxes - its how I got into comics as a new reader, and it lets readers pick and choose their level of involvement wihout getting too mired down or needing info-dump level exposition to clear things up.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

You forgot a Superman.

Edit: Wait...I just read that somehow Superman and Clark Kent are going to be two separate people now?

 

[John Kowalski]

Isn't this like making Eva part of the Gundam canon? All kinds of meta commentary fuckery.

 

[exmachina64]

I know its old fashioned, but if getting new readers is part of the plan, those silver age "Want to know what this character is talking about? Check out SPECIFIC_COMIC_REFERENCE" editorial boxes - its how I got into comics as a new reader, and it lets readers pick and choose their level of involvement wihout getting too mired down or needing info-dump level exposition to clear things up.

If they hadn't completely dropped the ball and had a digital subscription service like Marvel, then you could actually afford to check out all these old stories.

 

[Einchy]

Isn't this like making Eva part of the Gundam canon? All kinds of meta commentary fuckery.

It's like if End of Evangelion was the start of Gundams.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Further leaked Rebirth alterations:

MASSIVE SPOILERS:

-Superman discovers Krypton wasn't destroyed after all, but was in fact in hiding on Earth 67. Krypton has now been restored to the main DC universe, as Clark's parents are revealed to have been alive this whole time, having disguised themselves as reporters at the Daily Planet to keep an eye on their son.

-Selina Kyle is shockingly revealed to be Bruce Wayne's half sister.

-Harley Quinn discovers that she is in fact a ten billion year old celestial goddess suffering from amnesia, once charged with bringing peace and love to all mankind.

-Renee Montoya finds out she is a female reincarnation of Popeye.

-There are now eighteen seperate Plastic Men.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Further leaked Rebirth alterations:

MASSIVE SPOILERS:

-Superman discovers Krypton wasn't destroyed after all, but was in fact in hiding on Earth 67. Krypton has now been restored to the main DC universe, aS Clark's parents are revealed to be alive.

-Selina Kyle is shockingly revealed to be Bruce Wayne's half sister.

-Harley Quinn discovers that she is in fact a ten billion year old celestial goddess charged with bringing peace and love to all mankind.

-Renee Montoya finds out she is a female reincarnation of Popeye.

-There are now eighteen seperate Plastic Men.

But no Bullock spoilers? Lame!

 

[WrenchNinja]

Further leaked Rebirth alterations:

MASSIVE SPOILERS:

-Superman discovers Krypton wasn't destroyed after all, but was in fact in hiding on Earth 67. Krypton has now been restored to the main DC universe, aS Clark's parents are revealed to be alive.

-Selina Kyle is shockingly revealed to be Bruce Wayne's half sister.

-Harley Quinn discovers that she is in fact a ten billion year old celestial goddess charged with bringing peace and love to all mankind.

-Renee Montoya finds out she is a female reincarnation of Popeye.

-There are now eighteen seperate Plastic Men.

Only the Montoya one seems implausible of dc to do

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Further leaked Rebirth alterations:

MASSIVE SPOILERS:

-Superman discovers Krypton wasn't destroyed after all, but was in fact in hiding on Earth 67. Krypton has now been restored to the main DC universe, as Clark's parents are revealed to have been alive this whole time, having disguised themselves as reporters at the Daily Planet.

-Selina Kyle is shockingly revealed to be Bruce Wayne's half sister.

-Harley Quinn discovers that she is in fact a ten billion year old celestial goddess suffering from amnesia, oncr charged with bringing peace and love to all mankind.

-Renee Montoya finds out she is a female reincarnation of Popeye.

-There are now eighteen seperate Plastic Men.

Is it funny or sad that I believed this until I got to the Popeye one?

DC needs to get their shit together.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Further leaked Rebirth alterations:

MASSIVE SPOILERS:

-Superman discovers Krypton wasn't destroyed after all, but was in fact in hiding on Earth 67. Krypton has now been restored to the main DC universe, as Clark's parents are revealed to have been alive this whole time.

-Selina Kyle is shockingly revealed to be Bruce Wayne's half sister.

-Harley Quinn discovers that she is in fact a ten billion year old celestial goddess suffering from amnesia, oncr charged with bringing peace and love to all mankind.

-Renee Montoya finds out she is a female reincarnation of Popeye.

-There are now eighteen seperate Plastic Men.

Here's what's sad about the current state of DC Comics (as I see it): Until I got to the part about Popeye, I 100% believed these were real spoilers.

Edit: I see I wasn't the only one.