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McConnell and GOP Senators desperately working on a new "Skinny Repeal" for the ACA

Aug 29, 2009
37,723
1
710
Not GAF, lol
7 years and this is what they're ending up with
Sources suggest that Senate Republicans are weighing a last-ditch idea to pass some kind of health care bill in the coming days: a narrowly focused Obamacare repeal bill, perhaps one that eliminates the law's hated individual mandate to buy insurance and little else.

In order to get to conference, though, leadership needs a bill that can get 50 votes. Eliminating the penalty for Obamacare's individual mandate — possibly along with its employer mandate and some of its taxes on the health care industry — might be the only plan that can win such broad support within the Republican conference.

The plan is to let all the other options fail in a vote and then rebuild the bill using amendments. The end result would amount to just repealing the mandate and a small tax cut. Then punt it back to Paul Ryan in the house and hope for a miracle in committee.

There's a lot more details in the article, including all the problems this bill causes for the GOP and how it's not even a sure bet to pass.

Edit: CBO Report!!
 

Maxim726X

Member
Jan 16, 2010
11,145
0
715
Still doesn't address any of the underlying issues with healthcare, so I can't imagine many people are going to like it.

If anything, it's probably going to make insurance more expensive. So... Great job, guys?
 

Chumly

Member
Apr 3, 2007
8,124
0
0
Sounds like they are going to create a death spiral. I imagine most insurers will want to drop out.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Jul 31, 2007
39,660
0
0
All costs go up and the market eventually collapses. Brilliant work, GOP.
 

Officerrob

Banned
Dec 15, 2010
30,764
0
650
So they are going to "own" healthcare by theoretically passing a bill that only removes the mandate which will then collapse the market and drastically increase costs. Sounds like a solid plan...
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Sep 25, 2005
55,610
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1,440
The mandate is the only reason it works. They want a "win" and who gives a fuck how many people it hurts. Truly evil.
 
May 17, 2010
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Still doesn't address any of the underlying issues with healthcare, so I can't imagine many people are going to like it.

If anything, it's probably going to make insurance more expensive. So... Great job, guys?

Absolutely. If you keep the ban on excluding pre-existing conditions, but then don't have a way to force people to buy insurance for themselves, people will simply wait until they need the insurance to pay for it. It's unsustainable.

It's also a good time to remind everyone that Republicans backed an individual mandate during health care reform discussions in the 1990s: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/h...andate-was-first-backed-by-conservatives.html
 

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Mar 25, 2008
10,533
1
0
This is the best way to ensure that everyone, not just those without employment insurance, feels the effects of this fuckery.

As you were, gentlemen.
 

pirateluigi

Member
Apr 28, 2014
1,187
0
0
Isn't eliminating the larger risk pool (made of healthy people who can choose not to have health insurance) the only thing this accomplishes? So...all costs go up?

Yes. You can't have coverage for pre-existing conditions without subsidizing it through requiring healthy people to have insurance. Also, preventative care is much cheaper than dealing with a condition after it develops. Removing the mandate means less people will seek out preventative care. This all adds up to a death spiral of skyrocketing premiums.
 

JettDash

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2017
2,227
0
0
According to the CBO premiums would go up 20% not including subsidies.



They don't plan on this being the final bill. They just hope this is something that will pass. Then they will go into conference with the House with where they hope to hammer out a "better" bill. Then the House and Senate would each vote.
 

metalslimer

Member
Jun 9, 2012
26,527
0
0
Hospitals and insurance companies will hate this even more. They aren't even going to provide money to address the fact that people will still be thrown off healthcare. They just aren't destroying Medicaid anymore
 

Seth Enosh

Member
Apr 23, 2013
2,065
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eastern usa
Absolutely. If you keep the ban on excluding pre-existing conditions, but then don't have a way to force people to buy insurance for themselves, people will simply wait until they need the insurance to pay for it. It's unsustainable.

It's also a good time to remind everyone that Republicans backed an individual mandate during health care reform discussions in the 1990s: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/h...andate-was-first-backed-by-conservatives.html

Only some republicans backed the mandate. Remember that even Obama in 2008 was against the mandate, it's not exactly a slam dunk to force people to buy something.

I wonder if they got rid of the mandate and replaced it with auto-enrollment ala Cassidy-Collins bill, if it could be good enough. My understanding is that the mandate penalty isn't that large and has been under enforced the past few years anyway, leading to much lower enrollment in the Obamacare individual market than originally projected and higher premiums that fueled this whole "repeal Obamacare" political movement. See http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59414cc3e4b03e17eee08864 and many other places discussing the auto enrollment proposals.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Jun 8, 2004
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How do you get rid of the individual mandate, employer penalty and keep Obamacare going?

Insurance companies would flee the marketplace at insane rates and there would be no funding for the existing tax credits or medicare expansion.

It would cause a death spiral of Obamacare and then the GOP would own the complete destruction of the healthcare marketplace.
 

metalslimer

Member
Jun 9, 2012
26,527
0
0
Only some republicans backed the mandate. Remember that even Obama in 2008 was against the mandate, it's not exactly a slam dunk to force people to buy something.

I wonder if they got rid of the mandate and replaced it with auto-enrollment ala Cassidy-Collins bill, if it could be good enough. My understanding is that the mandate penalty isn't that large and has been under enforced the past few years anyway, leading to much lower enrollment in the Obamacare individual market than originally projected and higher premiums that fueled this whole "repeal Obamacare" political movement.

The repeal obamacare political movement started in 2010 when the bill originally passed.
 

Officerrob

Banned
Dec 15, 2010
30,764
0
650
How do you get rid of the individual mandate, employer penalty and keep Obamacare going?

Insurance companies would flee the marketplace at insane rates and there would be no funding for the existing tax credits or medicare expansion.

It would cause a death spiral of Obamacare and then the GOP would own the complete destruction of the healthcare marketplace.

Yeah, but at least they would have repealed Obamacare
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Jun 8, 2004
28,904
1
1,645
According to the CBO premiums would go up 20% not including subsidies.



They don't plan on this being the final bill. They just hope this is something that will pass. Then they will go into conference with the House with where they hope to hammer out a "better" bill. Then the House and Senate would each vote.

Except the parliamentarian has already said most of what they are attempting can't go through reconciliation.

AND they want their entire caucus on record as voting to kick 16 million people off of insurance headed into 2018 midterms?
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Jun 8, 2004
28,904
1
1,645
Only some republicans backed the mandate. Remember that even Obama in 2008 was against the mandate, it's not exactly a slam dunk to force people to buy something.

I wonder if they got rid of the mandate and replaced it with auto-enrollment ala Cassidy-Collins bill, if it could be good enough. My understanding is that the mandate penalty isn't that large and has been under enforced the past few years anyway, leading to much lower enrollment in the Obamacare individual market than originally projected and higher premiums that fueled this whole "repeal Obamacare" political movement. See http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59414cc3e4b03e17eee08864 and many other places discussing the auto enrollment proposals.

The mandate is the only reason this works.

1) It gets a certain number of healthy people to buy insurance.
2) The penalty money for those that don't goes back into the marketplace to defray costs for high-risk patients.

Getting rid of the mandate kills the bill.
 

Seth Enosh

Member
Apr 23, 2013
2,065
0
0
eastern usa
The repeal obamacare political movement started in 2010 when the bill originally passed.
Yes, but the movement was fueled by skyrocketing premiums that made many people mad and caused them to vote GOP. Obamacare has been unpopular over the past few years although with ACHA/BCRA's disaster on the horizon it has been growing in popularity as people realize the alternative is worse.
 

JettDash

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2017
2,227
0
0
How do you get rid of the individual mandate, employer penalty and keep Obamacare going?

Insurance companies would flee the marketplace at insane rates and there would be no funding for the existing tax credits or medicare expansion.

It would cause a death spiral of Obamacare and then the GOP would own the complete destruction of the healthcare marketplace.

This would keep most of the funding in place.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Jun 8, 2004
28,904
1
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This would keep most of the funding in place.

Right, but the funding is paid for by these penalties on employers and individuals. They are creating a massive debt burden on the federal government.

This bill would have the trifecta of

1) increasing the deficit
2) increasing health care costs by 20%
3) kick 16 million people off their insurance
 

metalslimer

Member
Jun 9, 2012
26,527
0
0
Yes, but the movement was fueled by skyrocketing premiums that made many people mad and caused them to vote GOP. Obamacare has been unpopular over the past few years although with ACHA/BCRA's disaster on the horizon it has been growing in popularity as people realize the alternative is worse.

Obamacares popularity had never been higher actually. It was a vastly unpopular bill when it passed leading the democrats getting their asses kicked in the 2010 midterms

Also this shit isn't even close to an obamacare repeal. It's a let's fuck the entire market bill
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Apr 17, 2007
29,339
2
0
You can't even call that a repeal.
 

googleplex

Member
Jun 7, 2010
9,069
1
0
How do you get rid of the individual mandate, employer penalty and keep Obamacare going?

Insurance companies would flee the marketplace at insane rates and there would be no funding for the existing tax credits or medicare expansion.

It would cause a death spiral of Obamacare and then the GOP would own the complete destruction of the healthcare marketplace.

They would just Blame democrats. It'll work too.
 

conpfreak

Member
Sep 6, 2005
618
1
1,390
Honestly, they really need to leave the individual mandate alone if they aren't going to fully repeal and replace the ACA, as that would basically destroy the healthcare marketplace for everyone. Why can't they just huddle with Democrats and actually come up with a fix to the law, take credit for it, and move on? People don't want a repeal at all. They just don't want to pay high premiums and have access to common routine services without a high deductible. If premiums were actually reasonable, the individual mandate wouldn't even be much of an issue, because majority of people would just pay for their premiums and the people who don't who can afford it would put theirselves at a financial disadvantage.

The moral objection to the individual mandate is really just noise from a loud few on the right.
 

JettDash

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2017
2,227
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Right, but the funding is paid for by these penalties on employers and individuals. They are creating a massive debt burden on the federal government.

This bill would have the trifecta of

1) increasing the deficit
2) increasing health care costs by 20%
3) kick 16 million people off their insurance

The CBO says that repealing the individual mandate would decrease the deficit because fewer people would sign up for the Medicaid (according to them 7 million), and subsidied plans on the individual market.


https://www.cbo.gov/budget-options/2016/52232
 

metalslimer

Member
Jun 9, 2012
26,527
0
0
They would just Blame democrats. It'll work too.

The deluded republicans in places like West Virginia will. I can't think of a party in power who has done something this unpopular than somehow gained seats. It's rare enough that the ruling party gains seats anyway in good times
 

Seth Enosh

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Apr 23, 2013
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Aselith

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Mar 17, 2008
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Still doesn't address any of the underlying issues with healthcare, so I can't imagine many people are going to like it.

If anything, it's probably going to make insurance more expensive. So... Great job, guys?

No but it will recreate an old one! That'll be fun, right?

Fuck these assholes
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Jun 8, 2004
28,904
1
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The CBO says that repealing the individual mandate would decrease the deficit because fewer people would sign up for the Medicaid (according to them 7 million), and subsidied plans on the individual market.


https://www.cbo.gov/budget-options/2016/52232

Right, but the only cost-savings is because less people would have insurance. It's a double edged sword:

You are either kicking people off of insurance or massively increasing the federal deficit.
 

SpecX

Member
Apr 26, 2009
4,523
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Not surprised, my brother inlaw will be happy with this since he refuses to pay for insurance to pocket more money and is very vocal how he hates the fine he pays due to the mandate.
 

JettDash

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2017
2,227
0
0
Right, but the only cost-savings is because less people would have insurance. It's a double edged sword:

You are either kicking people off of insurance or massively increasing the federal deficit.

The biggest savings would be from people choosing not to sign up for Medicaid.
 
Sep 15, 2011
12,984
1
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How are they able to go around touting this will lower premiums and provide better care?

Oh right because with less regulations insurance companies will be much more generous. :/
 

Pandora012

Member
May 7, 2014
5,807
0
310
Well, I guess they can try to bankrupt their base by the next election. It's a bold strategy.

It's okay tho. US voters have a short memory. US will have some years with Democrats in power, trying to fix what the Republicans have done. During that process Republicans lay the blame on the Democrats. Voters forget how they got in their current situation and vote Republican again. The cycle starts anew.
 

KingV

Member
Jul 30, 2004
5,540
2
1,450
At first blush, this is going to be subject to 60 votes to to pass.

There's no way you get rid of the mandate, and cut taxes, and stil decrease the deficit thus it won't satisfy the Byrd rule, and won't work under reconciliation rules.
 

JettDash

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2017
2,227
0
0
At first blush, this is going to be subject to 60 votes to to pass.

There's no way you get rid of the mandate, and cut taxes, and stil decrease the deficit thus it won't satisfy the Byrd rule, and won't work under reconciliation rules.

CBO says repealing the individual mandate will reduce the deficit $416 billion from 2018-2026
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Mar 31, 2005
11,818
0
1,310
37
Arlington, VA
Only some republicans backed the mandate. Remember that even Obama in 2008 was against the mandate, it's not exactly a slam dunk to force people to buy something.

I wonder if they got rid of the mandate and replaced it with auto-enrollment ala Cassidy-Collins bill, if it could be good enough. My understanding is that the mandate penalty isn't that large and has been under enforced the past few years anyway, leading to much lower enrollment in the Obamacare individual market than originally projected and higher premiums that fueled this whole "repeal Obamacare" political movement. See http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59414cc3e4b03e17eee08864 and many other places discussing the auto enrollment proposals.

This was one of the few good ideas the Republican party managed to come up with. They'd be smart to include it. It works for 401k enrollment, and while it won't work quite as well with healthcare it will undoubtedly have a positive effect on total enrollment.