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Media Create Sales: 12/15 - 12/21

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
Aug 30, 2005
22,609
0
0
34
Toronto, ON
Wow, the only thing that (barely) managed to sell half its shipment is WKC. Well at least it's only the first day, I hope everything does better over the weekend.

P.S. I can't believe Nintendo shipped over 100k of the Pikmin port.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,409
3
0
bcn-ron said:
Is that Pikmin 1+2 on one disc, or is it really just the first game (for now)?
Just the first Game.
 

ksamedi

Member
Sep 7, 2006
5,854
0
1,290
Rotterdam
jj984jj said:
Wow, the only thing that (barely) managed to sell half its shipment is WKC. Well at least it's only the first day, I hope everything does better over the weekend.

P.S. I can't believe Nintendo shipped over 100k of the Pikmin port.

That's because you don't understand the business model. Nintendo is payed for all of those copies they shipped and Nintendo is not going to give the money back if they don't sell. Its not their problem anymore.
 

ksamedi

Member
Sep 7, 2006
5,854
0
1,290
Rotterdam
Jokeropia said:
As I predicted, Wii Music is getting a holiday boost to at least reach decent numbers.
Yep noticed that too. It has smaller legs than other Wii line titles but it still does have legs. Deservedly so too.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
4
0
ksamedi said:
That's because you don't understand the business model. Nintendo is payed for all of those copies they shipped and Nintendo is not going to give the money back if they don't sell. Its not their problem anymore.

This has been explained to you before and yet you keep posting this:

- The shipment process is a collaboration between retailers and producers; your persistent assertion that only the retailer has agency in this process is just silly.
- Rotten stock hurts goodwill and reduces future willingness to take risks on like products
- Rotten stock in many countries and many sectors requires price protection (IE producer sanctioned price drops) which require refunds.
- Rotten stock affects re-orders and due to supply management, virtually every retailer in the world would prefer selling through their portion of 50k... and then slowly selling through their portion of 75k more, rather than just slowly selling through their portion of 100k. Brisk turnover is necessary for store operaion.
- Nintendo is NOTORIOUSLY anti-pricedrop, and threatens/punishes retailers who drop prices on their stock. Whether it's the retailer's fault for "over ordering" or not, the retailer-Nintendo relationship will be strained in the event that the retailer is put in a position where they need to price drop but Nintendo does not want them to.

"Overshipping" is a collaborative failure that negatively impacts both parties. Your characterization of it as otherwise and totally the retailers fault is not only wrong, it's tiresome because you post it persistently.

times you've posted this in the last month just in media create threads:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14045950&postcount=92
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14046178&postcount=102
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13988222&postcount=289

one of the times i've replied to you:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13988556&postcount=295
 

ksamedi

Member
Sep 7, 2006
5,854
0
1,290
Rotterdam
Stumpokapow said:
This has been explained to you before and yet you keep posting this:

- The shipment process is a collaboration between retailers and producers; your persistent assertion that only the retailer has agency in this process is just silly.
- Rotten stock hurts goodwill and reduces future willingness to take risks on like products
- Rotten stock in many countries and many sectors requires price protection (IE producer sanctioned price drops) which require refunds.
- Rotten stock affects re-orders and due to supply management, virtually every retailer in the world would prefer selling through their portion of 50k... and then slowly selling through their portion of 75k more, rather than just slowly selling through their portion of 100k. Brisk turnover is necessary for store operaion.
- Nintendo is NOTORIOUSLY anti-pricedrop, and threatens/punishes retailers who drop prices on their stock. Whether it's the retailer's fault for "over ordering" or not, the retailer-Nintendo relationship will be strained in the event that the retailer is put in a position where they need to price drop but Nintendo does not want them to.

"Overshipping" is a collaborative failure that negatively impacts both parties. Your characterization of it as otherwise and totally the retailers fault is not only wrong, it's tiresome because you post it persistently.

times you've posted this in the last month just in media create threads:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14045950&postcount=92
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14046178&postcount=102
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13988222&postcount=289

one of the times i've replied to you:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13988556&postcount=295

Well, that doesn't change the fact that retailers order from wholesalers and wholesalers buy from publishers. Yeah rotten stock is not wanted, but its the retailers problem if they over ordered and the publishers problem if they made a game that nobody wants. What you point out doesn't change the fact that retailers (or wholesalers) determine how much is going to be shipped.

Iwata said:
Please note that Nintendo is dealing with wholesalers. We sell our products to wholesalers, and they make allocations based upon their own decisions. Usually, Nintendo and wholesalers decide our allocations based upon actual transactions made in the past. In terms of the current situation that any DS and Wii hardware can be sold through in a relatively short time period at the outlets, every wholesaler demands more allocations. However, basically, between Nintendo and the wholesalers, we are agreeing to allocations based upon past transactions. On the other hand, there are some small retail outlets that have been kindly dealing with Nintendo products for a very, very long time and which do not belong to any big retail franchise and, for these specific retailers, some special allocations are being made. So, if our products are not allocated to some specific retailers, unfortunately, it is the issue between the retailer and the wholesalers, which Nintendo cannot control. Please note, however, that our basic policy is to realize as fair allocation as possible based upon the past transactions and their willingness to sell Nintendo products.

People in here seem to think that if a publishers shipes 5k of its product it expected to do only 5k and its not a bomb if the product sells trough 80 percent of ts stock.
 

jesusraz

Member
Apr 27, 2006
2,402
0
1,435
39
Manchester, England
www.cubed3.com
Here's the full Media Create Top 50, with known numbers, for those eager to know:

Media Create Top 50 - 15th-21st December, 2008
1.) Dissidia Final Fantasy (PSP, Square Enix) - 489,100 | NEW
2.) Gundam Musou 2 (PS3, Bandai Namco) - 176,400 | NEW
3.) Kirby Super Star Ultra (NDS, Nintendo) - 149,600 | 779,100
4.) Animal Crossing: City Folk (Wii, Nintendo) - 144,500 | 731,500
5.) Tales of Hearts: Anime Movie Edition (NDS, Bandai Namco) - 123,600 | NEW
6.) Wagamama Fashion: Girl's Mode (NDS, Nintendo) - 99,900 | 441,600
7.) Gundam Musou 2 (PS2, Bandai Namco) - 99,700 | NEW
8.) Pokemon Platinum (NDS, The Pokemon Company) - 85,800 | 2,152,100
9.) Fate/Unlimited Codes (PS2, Capcom) - 82,900 | NEW
10.) Momotarou Dentetsu: 20th Anniversary (NDS, Hudson) - 79,700 | NEW
11.) Taiko no Tatsujin (Wii, Namco Bandai)
12.) JOYSOUND Karaoke (Wii, Hudson) - 73,000 | NEW
13.) Rhythm Tengoku Gold (NDS, Nintendo)
14.) Power Pro Kun Pocket 11 (NDS, Konami)
15.) Legend of the Strongest Penguins! (NDS, Konami)
16.) Suikoden Tierkreis (NDS, Konami)
17.) Wii Fit (Wii, Nintendo)
18.) Professor Layton and the Last Time Travel (NDS, Level-5)
19.) Mario Kart Wii (Wii, Nintendo)
20.) Little Magician's Adventure (NDS, Konami)
21.) Tamagotchi Twinkle Institution (NDS, Namco Bandai)
22.) Ragnorak Online DS (NDS, GungHo Works)
23.) Fable II (Limited Edition) (360, Microsoft)
24.) Harvest Moon DS3: Welcome to the Wind Bazaar! (NDS, Marvelous Entertainment)
25.) Animal Crossing: Wild World (NDS, Nintendo)
26.) Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (PSP the Best) (PSP, Capcom)
27.) Wii Music (Wii, Nintendo)
28.) Wii Sports (Wii, Nintendo)
29.) World Soccer Winning Eleven 2009 (Limited Edition) (PS3, Konami)
30.) Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Spec III (Limited Edition) (PS3, SCE)
31.) Gundam Musou 2 (Limited Edition) (360, Namco Bandai) - 26,800 | NEW
32.) Taiko no Tatsujin DS 7 Island Adventure (NDS, Namco Bandai)
33.) Inazuma Eleven (NDS, Level-5)
34.) Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat (Wii, Nintendo)
35.) Mario Kart DS (NDS, Nintendo)
36.) Wii Play (Wii, Nintendo)
37.) Chrono Trigger (NDS, Square Enix)
38.) New Super Mario Bros. (NDS, Nintendo)
39.) Tales of Hearts CG Movie Edition (NDS, Namco Bandai) - 16,900 | NEW
40.) Dragon Ball Z Infinite World (PS2, Namco Bandai)
41.) Bleach Vs. Crusade (Wii, Sega)
42.) Orochi Warriors (PSP, Koei)
43.) Need for Speed Underground (PS3, EA)
44.) Pachinko Series Vol.13 Evangelion (PS2, D3P)
45.) Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii, Nintendo)
46.) Mobile Suit Gundam: Gundam VS. Gundam (Limited Edition) (PSP, Namco Bandai)
47.) The National Champion (PSP, Spike)
48.) Yes! Yes! Precure 5 (NDS, Namco Bandai)
49.) Mega Man Star Force 3: Black Aces (NDS, Capcom)
50.) Mario Party DS (NDS, Nintendo)

EDIT: Added 1-10 for reference, and the couple of other numbers we know.
 

ksamedi

Member
Sep 7, 2006
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Going with the wholesaler theme. Wholesalers must have ordered more Wiimusic stock from Nintendo. Didn't it ship 300K initially?
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
4
0
ksamedi said:
Well, that doesn't change the fact that retailers order from wholesalers and wholesalers buy from publishers. Yeah rotten stock is not wanted, but its the retailers problem if they over ordered and the publishers problem if they made a game that nobody wants. What you point out doesn't change the fact that retailers (or wholesalers) determine how much is going to be shipped.

Okay.

Let me make this really really easy for you.

I'll do it one line at a time. The bolded statements are the ones you think are relevant:

- Nintendo, or any other company, introduces a new title.
- The company then pursues retailer education campaigns through product demos, sending out pamphlets, sharing internal company projections for the games, highlight selling strategies, discussion support in the form of advertising and other support methods.
- The company then pursues strategies like bundling (product purchasing being tied to other products from the same company), discounting (offering higher margins to companies who buy more), etc.
- The company then asks for a specific amount
- Nintendo haggles with the company to get them to accept more if they think the company can sell or handle more.
- Post-release, companies engage in price markdowns to ensure brisk sales. Price markdowns can be dealt with through price protection (producer gives retailers a price cut) or not. Whether or not price protection occurs has a substantial impact on whether or not retailers are hurt by having too much stock.
- Nintendo specifically punishes retailers who discount marquee titles close to release date.

Do you see how, while what you say is technically true--retailers are the ones who make the orders--Nintendo has AS MUCH OR MORE INFLUENCE ON THIS PROCESS. I'm not sure how much more clearly I can explain this.

Moreover, even disregarding who has more agency in choosing shipment numbers, you are actually posting something pretty similar to "good riddance to dumb retailers who overordered", which is even more silly because whether it is the retailers fault or not (... and it's not), Nintendo will bare the brunt of the damage from a retailer "overordering" for future products.

Your Iwata quote is nonsensical. It has nothing to do with the situation. He's talking about allocation issues for distributors for hardware (because hardware does not generally rapidly tank in price, it is not an analogous situation), and he's saying that allocations are primarily based on past performance. Duh.

People in here seem to think that if a publishers shipes 5k of its product it expected to do only 5k and its not a bomb if the product sells trough 80 percent of ts stock.

No, they don't.

I'll try explaining this one very slowly as well.

1) If a product sells through 100% of its shipment and has a ten million unit shipment, it is unambiguously a success. (Absolute sales high, relative sales high)
2) If a product sells through a very low percentage of its shipment, but sells very very well on an absolute scale, it is probably a success. (Absolute sales high--probably a profitable project, but relative sales are low indicating that at least one of retailers and producer expected more.)
3) If a product sells through 100% of its shipment, but its shipment was tiny, then you look at the game itself. If the game seems like it was made to reflect these low sales (budget title, for example) then it's possibly a success (Absolute sales low, relative sales high, low budget).
4) If a product sells through 100% of its shipment, but its shipment was tiny, then you look at the game itself. If the game seems like it was made to reflect these low sales (budget title, for example) then it's possibly a success. If a game seems like it was made to reflect higher sales, then it's likely that either a) retailers had no faith in the game and will hopefully reorder, or b) producers had no faith in the game and released the game because the marginal cost of doing so was better than eating the sunk cost and canceling the game. Either way, this is a controlled bomb (Absolute sales low, relative sales high, non-low budget) because retailers are not stuck with rotten stock and there is no ill-will between producers and retailers.
5) If a product sells poorly in both absolute terms and relative terms, regardless of budget, it's a bomb--look forward to hail mary marketing campaigns, price collapses, residence at the bomba bin, etc. Retailers are made because they're stocking rotten stock. Producers are mad because the project is not profitable. Reorders are unlikely. Booo. (Absolute sales low, relative sales low).

People here say that scenario 3 is fine, and scenario 4 is most definitely preferable to scenario 5. Scenario 4 is better because while the game "bombs", the "bombing" of the game is a lower impact bomb because it just concerns the producer's sunk costs rather than the ongoing process. Plus, in scenario 4, how these numbers are calculated with respect to future sequels or similar games is going to depend on whether or not the low shipment was due to retailers underordering or producers downplaying the game (ie knowing it's not going to be profitable even before launching the product)

ksamedi said:
Going with the wholesaler theme. Wholesalers must have ordered more Wiimusic stock from Nintendo. Didn't it ship 300K initially?

You don't need to parrot Nintendo in your diction. Some major retailers do corporate purchasing directly, some retailers go through distributors (what the Nintendo IR translator is describing as wholesalers), some retailers go through multiple levels of distribution.

Either sales, sales are below 250k so I'm not sure why that indicates another shipment.
 

jesusraz

Member
Apr 27, 2006
2,402
0
1,435
39
Manchester, England
www.cubed3.com
And, amidst all this 'lovely' retail discussion...here's the hardware stuff (again for anyone interested):

Hardware - This Week | Last Week | 2008 Sales | Lifetime Sales
1.) Nintendo DSi - 204,100 | 173,693 | 1,042,670 | 1,042,670
2.) PlayStation Portable - 146,000 | 71,540 | 3,574,322 | 11,239,399
3.) Wii - 131,000 | 91,641 | 2,727,804 | 7,343,943
4.) Nintendo DS - 50,300 | 31,120 | 2,658,769 | 23,831,823
5.) PlayStation 3 - 39,100 | 33,688 | 934,763 | 2,576,439
6.) Xbox 360 - 12,900 | 11,797 | 309,084 | 817,529
7.) PlayStation 2 - 8,700 | 6,659 | 462,080 | 21,389,120
 

ksamedi

Member
Sep 7, 2006
5,854
0
1,290
Rotterdam
Stumpokapow said:
Okay.

Let me make this really really easy for you.

I'll do it one line at a time. The bolded statements are the ones you think are relevant:

- Nintendo, or any other company, introduces a new title.
- The company then pursues retailer education campaigns through product demos, sending out pamphlets, sharing internal company projections for the games, highlight selling strategies, discussion support in the form of advertising and other support methods.
- The company then pursues strategies like bundling (product purchasing being tied to other products from the same company), discounting (offering higher margins to companies who buy more), etc.
- The company then asks for a specific amount
- Nintendo haggles with the company to get them to accept more if they think the company can sell or handle more.
- Post-release, companies engage in price markdowns to ensure brisk sales. Price markdowns can be dealt with through price protection (producer gives retailers a price cut) or not. Whether or not price protection occurs has a substantial impact on whether or not retailers are hurt by having too much stock.
- Nintendo specifically punishes retailers who discount marquee titles close to release date.

Do you see how, while what you say is technically true--retailers are the ones who make the orders--Nintendo has AS MUCH OR MORE INFLUENCE ON THIS PROCESS. I'm not sure how much more clearly I can explain this.

Moreover, even disregarding who has more agency in choosing shipment numbers, you are actually posting something pretty similar to "good riddance to dumb retailers who overordered", which is even more silly because whether it is the retailers fault or not (... and it's not), Nintendo will bare the brunt of the damage from a retailer "overordering" for future products.

Your Iwata quote is nonsensical. It has nothing to do with the situation. He's talking about allocation issues for distributors for hardware (because hardware does not generally rapidly tank in price, it is not an analogous situation), and he's saying that allocations are primarily based on past performance. Duh.

People in here seem to think that if a publishers shipes 5k of its product it expected to do only 5k and its not a bomb if the product sells trough 80 percent of ts stock.

No, they don't.

I'll try explaining this one very slowly as well.

1) If a product sells through 100% of its shipment and has a ten million unit shipment, it is unambiguously a success. (Absolute sales high, relative sales high)
2) If a product sells through a very low percentage of its shipment, but sells very very well on an absolute scale, it is probably a success. (Absolute sales high--probably a profitable project, but relative sales are low indicating that at least one of retailers and producer expected more.)
3) If a product sells through 100% of its shipment, but its shipment was tiny, then you look at the game itself. If the game seems like it was made to reflect these low sales (budget title, for example) then it's possibly a success (Absolute sales low, relative sales high, low budget).
4) If a product sells through 100% of its shipment, but its shipment was tiny, then you look at the game itself. If the game seems like it was made to reflect these low sales (budget title, for example) then it's possibly a success. If a game seems like it was made to reflect higher sales, then it's likely that either a) retailers had no faith in the game and will hopefully reorder, or b) producers had no faith in the game and released the game because the marginal cost of doing so was better than eating the sunk cost and canceling the game. Either way, this is a controlled bomb (Absolute sales low, relative sales high, non-low budget) because retailers are not stuck with rotten stock and there is no ill-will between producers and retailers.
5) If a product sells poorly in both absolute terms and relative terms, regardless of budget, it's a bomb--look forward to hail mary marketing campaigns, price collapses, residence at the bomba bin, etc. Retailers are made because they're stocking rotten stock. Producers are mad because the project is not profitable. Reorders are unlikely. Booo. (Absolute sales low, relative sales low).

People here say that scenario 3 is fine, and scenario 4 is most definitely preferable to scenario 5. Scenario 4 is better because while the game "bombs", the "bombing" of the game is a lower impact bomb because it just concerns the producer's sunk costs rather than the ongoing process. Plus, in scenario 4, how these numbers are calculated with respect to future sequels or similar games is going to depend on whether or not the low shipment was due to retailers underordering or producers downplaying the game (ie knowing it's not going to be profitable even before launching the product)

I can't believe we're going over stuff like this.

Thats not what people think. People think oh look, Namco shipped 5k to retailers and retailers sold their copies for them. Namco must be happy now. Thats what I'm trying to point out.

As for the other matters, I actually don't disagree for the most part except for the publisher has more influance part. The consumer always has the most influence. My point was about something else. I probably don't have the time or energy to go into a lengthy discussion with you anyway :lol
 

donny2112

Member
Apr 18, 2005
18,797
1
1,590
Good news! You just saved a ton of money on car insurance with Geico! Geimin.net has updated with the Top 100s for 1996, 1997, and 1998, with the Top 300s for 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2003, and with the Top 500 for 2004. The Top 100s have been publicly available before on YSO, but I believe this is the first time that the Top 300s have been made publicly available.

:)
 

charlequin

Banned
Oct 19, 2005
26,635
1
1,405
ksamedi said:
Thats not what people think. People think oh look, Namco shipped 5k to retailers and retailers sold their copies for them. Namco must be happy now. Thats what I'm trying to point out.

As for the other matters, I actually don't disagree for the most part except for the publisher has more influance part. The consumer always has the most influence. My point was about something else. I probably don't have the time or energy to go into a lengthy discussion with you anyway :lol

If you're pressed for time, "you were right, I was wrong" is only six words.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,409
3
0
33.) Inazuma Eleven (NDS, Level-5)
Yeah, nice legs....
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
From sinobi, Rogue Galaxy first day was 142k. Also RIZ-ZOAWD did 2k.


WTF-WTF-WTF ...seriously...WTF ?

Japan :-/
 

charlequin

Banned
Oct 19, 2005
26,635
1
1,405
cw_sasuke said:
WTF-WTF-WTF ...seriously...WTF ?

Japan :-/

Why are people surprised about things like this? Can you name a single thing about this game that suggested it would be anything other than a huge underseller?
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,409
3
0
jesusraz said:
We also know that it sold between 26,800 and 16,900 units. More likely closer to the former considering its position as well. If it finally ends up with more sales than WKS that'll be interesting.

Nice, seems like the anime is really helping IE...

charlequin said:
Why are people surprised about things like this? Can you name a single thing about this game that suggested it would be anything other than a huge underseller?

It looks awesome for a DS game - but yeah i didn`t expect huge sales, but 2K when there ar +20mil ds owners out there is kinda sad...
 
Aug 28, 2008
13,373
6
0
Is it possible that the same thing that happened in America last month is happening in Japan? Basically that there are so many competing titles that there isn't enough room for even a fair share amount of them to gain satisfactory leg room?

jesusraz said:
We also know that it sold between 26,800 and 16,900 units. More likely closer to the former considering its position as well. If it finally ends up with more sales than WKS that'll be interesting.

And I remember when people claimed that it was a "bomb" after its second week. :lol
 
schuelma said:
How in the hell could you be disappointed?
With twice the userbase, in a much bigger sales time of year, and with draws for fans of FFs other than VII, its first week number didn't really improve over Crisis Core.
jakncoke said:
Holy shit at the closeness, what did GCN do in it's 4th year?
Let me do a PantherLotus-style multi-year line. Note that in some cases there's a bit of leakage between years; if Famitsu combined the last week of one year with the first of the next, I just break it down the middle. The reason they appear to float is that each segment begins with the first actual value rather than a 0 point.

Dengeki Sales: 2008 TOP30 (2007.12.31 - 2008.12.21)
Is there a particular reason they're ending the year a week early?
Ydahs said:
Are those Pikmin sales good? Bad? How did the series do on the Gamecube?
As a "Play on Wii" it's definitely not comparable to a new game, but this does look to be a bigger start than the Jungle Beat Play on Wii. For comparison, though, the Famitsu first weeks of the original two Pikmin were 101K and 162K respectively. Both went on to do about a half million.
 
Based on the latest Famitsu hardware numbers...
PSP comparisons: After 210 weeks, PSP is where PS2 was at 157.9 weeks (March 8, 2003), where DS was at 93.2 weeks (September 11, 2006), and where GBA was at 143.0 weeks (December 14, 2003).

X360 comparisons: After 158 weeks, X360 is where GCN was at 15.3 weeks (December 25, 2001), where PS3 was at 21.8 weeks (April 6, 2007), and where Wii was at 4.3 weeks (December 26, 2006).

PS3 comparisons: After 110 weeks, PS3 is where PS2 was at 25.6 weeks (August 24, 2000), where PSP was at 55.3 weeks (December 27, 2005), where GCN was at 114.5 weeks (November 20, 2003), and where Wii was at 27.2 weeks (June 5, 2007).

Wii comparisons: After 107 weeks, Wii is where GBA was at 91.7 weeks (December 20, 2002), where DS was at 72.4 weeks (April 18, 2006), where PS2 was at 103.9 weeks (February 23, 2002), and where PSP was at 158.0 weeks (December 16, 2007).

DSi comparisons: After 7 weeks, DSi is where GBASP was at 10.3 weeks (April 22, 2003), and where DSL was at 6.9 weeks (April 15, 2006).

Based on the latest Media Create hardware numbers...
DS vs PSP: Weekly shares of 63.5 / 36.5 bring total shares to 69.0 / 31.0. If DS stopped selling and PSP continued at this week's rate, it would catch up in 93.9 weeks (October 9, 2010).

X360 vs PS3: Weekly shares of 24.8 / 75.2 bring total shares to 24.1 / 75.9. If PS3 stopped selling and X360 continued at this week's rate, it would catch up in 136.3 weeks (August 3, 2011).

PS3 vs Wii: Weekly shares of 23.0 / 77.0 bring total shares to 26.0 / 74.0. If Wii stopped selling and PS3 continued at this week's rate, it would catch up in 121.8 weeks (April 23, 2011).


Week over week the big improvers are DS, PSP, and Wii; with PSP and Wii switching places from last week.


Are PS2's 10K hardware days finally over? It has done so a few times this year, but is now failing to do so in the peak of the holiday season and doing far worse than the year before.


GCN and PS3 get compared a lot, and now their third year numbers are looking pretty similar. This is a turnaround from earlier in the year, where PS3 got an early lead and kept it with things like the MGS4 spike. However, GCN was a bit of a holiday machine and is making up ground FAST in the last weeks of the year. Unless PS3 hits 91K next week (more than a doubling of this week's sales), it falls behind.

 

donny2112

Member
Apr 18, 2005
18,797
1
1,590
schuelma said:
Is it next week where we won't get MC data? Will we still get the Famitsu leak?

We will get MC data for next week, but it may be delayed. The Famitsu leak should also come, though, it may be delayed, as well.

JoshuaJSlone said:
Are PS2's 10K hardware days finally over? It has done so a few times this year, but is now failing to do so in the peak of the holiday season and doing far worse than the year before.

Probably. It's been nearly killed in the U.S., as well, by Sony's too long delay of the $99 price drop. Consoles seem to die in Japan long before the U.S., though (see: GBA).

My normal Famitsu post will be next week, in case you were wondering. Based on the feedback (Thanks!), I'll probably start doing format B, as well. :)
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
23,612
2
1,130
donny2112 said:
Probably. It's been nearly killed in the U.S., as well, by Sony's too long delay of the $99 price drop. Consoles seem to die in Japan long before the U.S., though (see: GBA).

My normal Famitsu post will be next week, in case you were wondering. Based on the feedback (Thanks!), I'll probably start doing format B, as well. :)
The PS2 sold 3.97 million units in 2007 in the U.S., and in 2008 the PS2 might end up selling about the half of what it did in 2007, and by comparing the 2007 and 2008 PS2 hardware numbers it might look alittle like the PS2 is dying if you compare 2007 to 2008, i agree, but persoanlly i am not sure sure that the PS2 is nearly killed quite yet in the U.S. :)

So far in 2008 the PS2 has sold 2,092,300 units in the U.S. The PS3 has sold 2,818,900 and the Xbox 360 has sold 3,295,400 so far in 2008. The PS3 and the Xbox 360 will probably increase the YTD lead on the PS2 when the NPD December 2008 numbers are out though, but so far the PS2 2008 hardware sales numbers arent really that huge appart from the PS3 and the Xbox 360 2008 hardware sales numbers, atleast in my opinion, and at least if we considering that the PS2 is in it's 7th or 8th year on the market :)

I think that mostly retailers (or mostly the biggest retailers at least) will keep on selling the PS2 throughout in 2009. Sony still hasnt dropped the PS2 price to $99 US dollars as you mentioned, and maybe the PS2 can get to live on alittle longer on the market when the price on the PS2 gets dropped to around $99 US dollars :)

But ye, i guess it depends on how you define "nearly", since that word can be relative. If the PS2 lives for 1 more year, then 1 year can be "nearly" concidering that the PS2 has been out for about 7 or 8 years on the market. 1 year of out 7 or 8 years in a total isnt really that long, at least in my opinion :)
 

donny2112

Member
Apr 18, 2005
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test_account said:
The PS2 sold 3.97 million units in 2007 in the U.S., and in 2008 the PS2 might end up selling about the half of what it did in 2007, and by comparing the 2007 and 2008 PS2 hardware numbers it might look alittle like the PS2 is dying if you compare 2007 to 2008, i agree, but persoanlly i am not sure sure that the PS2 is nearly killed quite yet in the U.S. :)

So far in 2008 the PS2 has sold 2,092,300 units in the U.S. The PS3 has sold 2,818,900 and the Xbox 360 has sold 3,295,400 so far in 2008. The PS3 and the Xbox 360 will probably increase the YTD lead on the PS2 when the NPD December 2008 numbers are out though, but so far the PS2 2008 hardware sales numbers arent really that huge appart from the PS3 and the Xbox 360 2008 hardware sales numbers, atleast in my opinion, and at least if we considering that the PS2 is in it's 7th or 8th year on the market :)

I think that mostly retailers (or mostly the biggest retailers at least) will keep on selling the PS2 throughout in 2009. Sony still hasnt dropped the PS2 price to $99 US dollars as you mentioned, and maybe the PS2 can get to live on alittle longer on the market when the price on the PS2 gets dropped to around $99 US dollars :)

But ye, i guess it depends on how you define "nearly", since that word can be relative. If the PS2 lives for 1 more year, then 1 year can be "nearly" concidering that the PS2 has been out for about 7 or 8 years on the market. 1 year of out 7 or 8 years in a total isnt really that long, at least in my opinion :)

The PS2 sold 206 thousand in November. Two-hundred and six thousand in November.

I believe Sony is letting the PS2 die earlier than it should to help compensate for the losses coming from the PS3. Sony had consistently not let the PS2 get below 200K in a month for long without instituting a price cut in the U.S. to raise sales. The last price cut for the PS2 came after a 206K month in Apr-06. It got below 200K for three months in 2007 getting as low as 184K in October before seeing the usual 100+% increase to 496K in November (+170%). In the last 8 months of 2008, the PS2 has only gotten as high as 184K twice (189K in the five-week June and 206K in November) while averaging 158K. That's pathetic for the PS2. Even more troubling was that the PS2 only increased 51% from October to November. We're probably looking at a <= 400K December for the system that hasn't had a < 1 million December since the shortages of 2004 when it only hit 990K.

It's much harder to gain back momentum than it is to keep it going. A $99 PS2 will help a lot in that regard, if Sony decides to do it despite an incoming PS3 price cut in the Spring. However, it is way overdue and probably won't help the PS2 near as much as if it had been done this year instead.

The PS2 has a lot more "life" left in it in the U.S. compared to Japan, but Sony has hastened the PS2's death by holding back the $99 price cut for the PS3's sake.
 

duckroll

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Jun 7, 2004
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cw_sasuke said:
It looks awesome for a DS game - but yeah i didn`t expect huge sales, but 2K when there ar +20mil ds owners out there is kinda sad...

It looks awesome compared to what? It's just another average low budget 3D DS RPG with a traditional gameplay system. It has nothing going for it:

a) It's published by D3 Publisher. This is a BUDGET publisher in Japan and they're not going to spend much money on advertising, marketing or anything special on their games.

b) There is nothing really compelling about the game's scenario, characters or art direction.

c) There's nothing really compelling about the gameplay systems.

d) There's no branding attached to it at all, the developer only works on Wild Arms and visual novel games, and the the publisher is associated with the Simple series. The game isn't part of any series nor does it have a famous character designer attached.

Given these scenarios, and the fact that most people will simply have no heard of this game at all, why is it any surprise that it only managed to sell 2k in a week where RPG fans and masses have Tales of Hearts, Dissidia and Suikoden to choose from? It doesn't really matter what platform it's on, I don't think anyone expected it to ever chart to begin with.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
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duckroll said:
b) There is nothing really compelling about the game's scenario, characters or art direction.

really

nothing compelling about the wizard of oz as a scenario
 

duckroll

Member
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Stumpokapow said:
really

nothing compelling about the wizard of oz as a scenario

Anyone can take a popular children's story as the basis of a RPG scenario, but there's doesn't mean anything. No one is buying Tales of Hearts because it's using Sleeping Beauty as a basis of a myth in the game world. People are buying it because it's a fucking Tales game.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
23,612
2
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donny2112 said:
The PS2 sold 206 thousand in November. Two-hundred and six thousand in November.
Ye, the PS2 sales has definitly gone down compared to the previous years. The PS2 will end up selling in 2008 about half what it did in 2007, so the PS2 sales has definitly gone down quite a bit, i dont disagree with that :) But i think that a console that manages to sell 206k in a month (even if it is in November which is usualy a good month for console sales) in its 7th or 8th year is actually fairly good :) I guess it depends on how much we can except from a 7 or 8 year old console to sell.


donny2112 said:
I believe Sony is letting the PS2 die earlier than it should to help compensate for the losses coming from the PS3. Sony had consistently not let the PS2 get below 200K in a month for long without instituting a price cut in the U.S. to raise sales. The last price cut for the PS2 came after a 206K month in Apr-06. It got below 200K for three months in 2007 getting as low as 184K in October before seeing the usual 100+% increase to 496K in November (+170%). In the last 8 months of 2008, the PS2 has only gotten as high as 184K twice (189K in the five-week June and 206K in November) while averaging 158K. That's pathetic for the PS2. Even more troubling was that the PS2 only increased 51% from October to November. We're probably looking at a <= 400K December for the system that hasn't had a < 1 million December since the shortages of 2004 when it only hit 990K.
If the PS2 manages to sell around 400k in December in the U.S., then i think that is also fairly good. The Wii is now the "hot casual thing" that the PS2 used to be, many more people already own a PS2 compared to how many that already own a Wii, and now that the Wii supply has gone up (the Wii selling 2 million in November, amazing stuff! :)) which means that it is easier to get a hold of the Wii, i think that might affect the PS2 sales alittle as well.

EDIT 2: After reading these numbers again i can see what you mean with "nearly killed". The PS2 hardware sales numbers are clearly lower compared to how the PS2 hardware sales numbers were in in 2007 and in the previous years, so i see what you mean :)


donny2112 said:
It's much harder to gain back momentum than it is to keep it going. A $99 PS2 will help a lot in that regard, if Sony decides to do it despite an incoming PS3 price cut in the Spring. However, it is way overdue and probably won't help the PS2 near as much as if it had been done this year instead.
Ye, i also think that it might be harder for Sony to gain momentum the longer they wait to drop the price on the PS2 to $99 US dollars. I wonder how big increase it will be when the PS2 hits the price of $99 US dollars. The PS2 is getting old (or it already is old) and many people already own a PS2. On the other hand, i think that $99 US dollars is a good price, it might be an appealing price as well, and i think that the PS2 has a good gaming library, so maybe a $99 US dollars price will do quite good?


donny2112 said:
The PS2 has a lot more "life" left in it in the U.S. compared to Japan, but Sony has hastened the PS2's death by holding back the $99 price cut for the PS3's sake.
Ye, it might have helped the PS2 sales better if Sony dropped the price in this year instead of in 2009, i agree. The PS2 sales are going down compared to the previous years, and by looking at this, then you might say that the PS2 is nearly killed, i agree. But when a 7 or 8 year old console still manage to sell over 2 million units in one year, or 206k in a month (even it was in November) i dont think that is exactly "nearly killed" just yet :) If the PS2 drops to maybe around 50k a month next year, then i agree that the PS2 is nearly being killed :)

But as said, the word "nearly" can be relative, so i dont say that you are wrong or anything just to underline that, i just wanted to say that personally i dont think the PS2 is nearly killed just yet :) I dont think that the PS2 doesnt have too many years of life left though, i agree :)


EDIT: I fixed some typos, changed alittle on some sentence that i first wrote and splitted the quotes into several of sections so it might be easier to see what i replied to :)
 

Eteric Rice

Member
Jan 13, 2007
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I'd say the DS is pretty much flooded down with RPGs. That's likely why people aren't buying them much anymore.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
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duckroll said:
It looks awesome compared to what? It's just another average low budget 3D DS RPG with a traditional gameplay system. It has nothing going for it:

Didn`t look like a low budget DS game to me, nevermind i just expected more than 2K at day 1, not Tales of or FF-like sales...just a bit more, kinda sad seeing those "small" games bomb like that...even if there are reasons for those sales or not.
 

Durante

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Eteric Rice said:
I'd say the DS is pretty much flooded down with RPGs. That's likely why people aren't buying them much anymore.
I'd say that, for small/medium "impact" JRPGs, the DS audience never was buying them all that much to begin with (compared to PS1/2).
 

Ashour

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It’s rare to see Playstation games taking the first 2 spots in Japan, but PS3 hardware sales are disappointing, I don't know if White Knight would help pump up PS3 sales or only people already owning the console buy it.
 

spwolf

Member
Feb 15, 2007
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ksamedi said:
Holy shit @ a stupid person calling someone stupid. That takes courage.

mods: i take offense at his tag :lol

p.s. calling someone stupid for calling you stupid is really awesome... oh wait.


(take a hint: chill!)
 

lordmrw

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Jun 7, 2004
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www.classic-games.net
duckroll said:
It looks awesome compared to what? It's just another average low budget 3D DS RPG with a traditional gameplay system. It has nothing going for it:

a) It's published by D3 Publisher. This is a BUDGET publisher in Japan and they're not going to spend much money on advertising, marketing or anything special on their games.

b) There is nothing really compelling about the game's scenario, characters or art direction.

c) There's nothing really compelling about the gameplay systems.

d) There's no branding attached to it at all, the developer only works on Wild Arms and visual novel games, and the the publisher is associated with the Simple series. The game isn't part of any series nor does it have a famous character designer attached.

Given these scenarios, and the fact that most people will simply have no heard of this game at all, why is it any surprise that it only managed to sell 2k in a week where RPG fans and masses have Tales of Hearts, Dissidia and Suikoden to choose from? It doesn't really matter what platform it's on, I don't think anyone expected it to ever chart to begin with.


I think some people look at it as, 24 million DS buyers, x game should sell to at least y amount of them, which is incredibly stupid. At the end of the day its all just numbers.