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Media Create Sales: August 16-22
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Cosmonaut X
Member
farnham said:
...which has nothing to do with my point about them including third parties at an earlier hardware development stage. I'm talking about them sacrificing some secrecy (likely hence the early reveal of the 3D screen) in favour of involving other companies at an early stage.
Aaaargh! They don't care because it means setting up a sizeable new team (or assigning one from elsewhere) just to develop a port for the system, because of its awkward, non-standard hardware setup - hence my point about the 3DS having industry-standard features, allowing quick and straightforward transfers of games third parties have developed for the PC/360/PS3!
Cosmonaut X said:
Its like this .
3DS -> surefire hit because there is no competition.
Next console -> a lot of competition.
One of the key reasons why the wii was so successful was that ps3 and 360 did not have a similar motion control system until just now. They had the motion control gaming market dominance for the entire generation so now its irrelevant. If PS3 or 360 had a wii esque peripheral in the early days of the generation things would have been way different.
The wii has the same architecture as the Gamecube. That one had a lot of middleware working on it like renderware. Also there were quite a few gamecube development teams that existed. Doesnt look like those people are being used though.Cosmonaut X said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
farnham said:
Renderware doesn't exist anymore and Nintendo directly and specifically exiled the teams that we commonly associate with being GameCube tech gurus.
Cosmonaut X
Member
farnham said:
Yes, and all those people were reassigned and retrained on the kind of tech now being used across the rest of the industry. The only teams with real active experience and the pressure to work to the limits of the system are Nintendo's own and the very few dedicated teams that some of the larger publishers have.
The benefit of having industry-standard graphics tech and being able to share assets with other platforms can't be understated.
duckroll said:
Well the biggest difference at this point seems to be the MGS3 Subsistence release which MGS4 never received an equivalent.
The interesting part about MGS4 having a much bigger number in its "Best" release looks to be new PS3 owners are picking up the game. So maybe these "B" titles are having a more positive long term effect on the "A" titles.
i dont really understand what you mean with this. could you specify ?Stumpokapow said:
Cosmonaut X said:
yes because the third parties never cared and never will. do you think it would have been different if the wii used the common standard hardware architecture ? ill go ahead and say no. why ? because the other reasons why they dont work ont he wii will remain (motion control programming, nintendo as a competitor) also the wii wouldnt have sold as well if they would have chosen to get better hardware due to the higher launch price or the later launch date.
Cosmonaut X
Member
farnham said:
Oh, for God's sake. There's no point in continuing this discussion because your answer to everything is going to be "well, do you think third parties would have changed their ways? No! They would have snubbed the Wii anyway - the only answer is for Nintendo to become MORE self-sufficient!".
There is plenty of blame to pass on to third parties with regard to their approach to the Wii without discounting some of the very real issues that led them to behave in that way.
I can only hope Nintendo have less of a siege mentality...
The basic strategy of sony and ms are to pursue third parties. especially in case of MS they even have shrunk their own first party studios down. The basic strategy of nintendo is to sell their first party software while making unique hardware. its just not a strategy that mixes well with the third parties. They tried to abandon that mantra once and that didnt work out at all. it was disastrous and did not help nintendo software as a whole.Cosmonaut X said:
I dont blame the third parties. They are doing the best they can on other platforms. Just not the wii because quite frankly they would only sell sub 100k anyway.
A 'few' yes, but those are almost all gone outside of the Nintendo's first party stable:farnham said:
Other teams at Midway, EA, Ubisoft and other developers got scrapped/sacked/replaced/restructured. There's also a bunch of franchises like Tales that totally bombed on Wii and I doubt we'll ever see any Wii development from those teams ever again. Krome is on its last legs, Headstrong Games nearly bit the dust and we might be able to add High-Voltage Software to the 'bankrupt' list soon.
[Nintex] said:
nspace, swinging ape, free radical, capcom production studio 4 (they did not do the re4 wii port right ?), acclaim, factor 5, rare, silicon knights -> never made wii games in the first place
platinum -> made madworld which bombed hard
camelot -> choose not to make mario golf, mario tennis but made some pc golf game and a wii version of that instead. both bombed hard. i believe mario power tennis wii edition sold better then those two golf games combined
amusement vision -> made monkeyball which was a sales success as far as i know. never looked back
Hudson -> as you said they are at ND cube now. wii party will soon hit a million. mario party 8 was a multi million success
Tales -> obviously they will never look at DS or Wii again.
And that's pretty much my point, god bless Warren Spector and Junction Point because I think that is the best Wii developer outside Nintendo now or at least the most dedicated one. The rest of the teams are MIA, bankrupt, never made it out of the GameCube generation or got burned bad by releasing games on Wii.farnham said:
No one is able to take advantage of the fact that the Wii is a remastered GameCube, the Wii architecture is a dead end and that's why there's no interest to develop games on it. In order to change this Nintendo has no choice but to release a new system.
That's just a list of the 'imaginary' GameCube developers that people like to throw around. The argument that comes up alot is that the Wii is just like the Cube, so the hundreds of GameCube developers sitting on the fence could bombard the system with games, the problem is that there aren't any.wizword said:
That's not the basic strategy, in fact MS is rumored to be really fucking pissed at one of their first party studios right now.
i dread that he wont see much success either though. epic mickey looks good but if it doesnt connect with the casual crowd it will bomb.[Nintex] said:
[Nintex] said:
yeah. they would loose their whole userbase they just established and can hope that the third parties will be merciful and treat it like gamecube 2.
[Nintex] said:
There were people that made games on the gamecube. the companies died but the people still exist. there is just no interest whatsoever to gather those people and make something interesting on the wii.
[Nintex] said:
ironically we are never talking about the failings of MS or Sony nowadays (maybe its just me)
but yeah i dont think they had golden generation either.
charlequin
Banned
farnham said:
Yes, the same crappy, obtuse architecture that made the Gamecube lose even multiplatform ports at the end of its life and which is completely incompatible with literally 100% of modern development practices. :lol
It's pretty clear that your position here is based more on what you decided would be preferable (Nintendo telling those mean grapes that they were sour all along) rather than actually examining the evidence available regarding the situation.
The reason we don't talk about xbox 360 or playstation 3 is because unlike the wii their 3rd party software numbers are higher than wii even though wii has twice as large userbase. Nintendo should have a much larger presence when the wii has been barely outselling ps3 in both sw and hw in japan this year. iPhone writing here :lol
the tech problems are probably one aspect of the wii getting no support. but its definately not the sole reason.charlequin said:
combined yes. but seperately the 360 or ps3 software sales are not higher then those on the wii. and if you are talking about japanese sales then i doubt that 360 and ps3 software sales combined ever outsold the wii sales.wizword said:
duckroll said:
obviously its not okay. The wii is in a bad shape. But its not dead either.
NeonZ
Member
Your arguments are just contradictory. You say that 3DS's initial third party support only exists due to Nintendo's tradition in the field, yet you act like the current conditions of the gaming market don't matter at all to next gen.
If Nintendo just drags on with the Wii, even you know that it's position in the market place and the consumers view about its brand only will become worse and worse. That's already happening and THAT will impact negatively initial support for that successor. Nintendo will have a GameCube 2 in their hands for next gen IF they wait yours 3 or 4 years to release this successor.
Besides that, you also seem to speak under the belief that the Wii was a best case scenario for Nintendo, and that they shouldn't have any ambition to go beyond that because it'd involve "risks". I really disagree. A company following that logic would never have created the Wii in the first place.
charlequin
Banned
farnham said:
Nobody said it was, but frankly, nobody cares either. Everybody here agrees that Wii third party support sucks and is getting suckier, but you're the only person desperately trying to assert that this fact is both immutable and yet simultaneously irrelevant.
If the third parties had a chance to establish themselves on the wii. id say that it could be a good idea to launch a new system with a lot of third parties on board.NeonZ said:
but unlike the DS thats just not the case with the wii. there is not a single thirdparty property that sold well and established itself as a wii brand. therefore it will be hard to convince any thirdparty to jump on initially in the first place.
and dragging out isnt necessarily bad. Nintendo makes good software. they could make another casual hit with wii sports 3, wii fit 3, wii party 3 or wii relax and release some games that make fanboys happy. It would be a lot better then leave the wii to die at this stage.
i think i said that wii thirdparty support is dead or that it never existed in the first place. i dont know if its immutable. nintendo could shift into a company that gets a lot of console thirdparty support. i just dont think its very likely. and if you are talking about the wiis success this gen i believe third parties had little to no role in it.charlequin said:
there are good games comming out on any platform i own (psp, ds, wii, 360) and there will be games on the platform that i plan to buy this or next year on launch (3ds). i really dont have any worries that i wont be able to spend money on gaming to be honest.duckroll said:
Sammy Samusu
Member
I don't think they are going to announce Wii games at a Nintendo 3DS press event.
Unless we are talking about Monster Hunter 3G
, which would be the second coming of Jesus.
We are not worth it.
Unless we are talking about Monster Hunter 3G
DS
We are not worth it.
NeonZ
Member
Nintendo this time can show that they can get a big enough userbase though. Add to that a superior hardware to what else is available, considering how this system would be released years after the X360 and PS3, and they should be able to gather some initial support.
Yes, for some reason or another, it might not happen even in those conditions, and they might be stuck with a GameCube-like system if their own titles fail to catch on, but you keep acting like the existence of risks mean that it's not a viable choice at all.
Retreads aren't enough to keep the system going at this point. Wii party is a million seller, but it hasn't been able to carry the Wii even as well as the multiple lower selling titles from third parties for the PS3.
I don't see how the third version of older titles or a Wii Relax which recently hasn't even had any focus from Nintendo itself is going to do anything to change that. Even if Wii Relax is still being developed, and it turns out to sell on the level of Wii Party of Sports Resort, that won't be enough by itself. Besides, retreads of older titles that already had Wii versions, some of them two, could damage Nintendo's brand and that would certainly carry on to a Wii successor.
NeonZ said:
It would be a viable choice if nintendo has already finished developing their next "feature". They already said in several interviews that they will have some unique feature this time around just like they did with ds or wii.
NeonZ said:
Yes because wii party is like the only game that came out in august and before that we had xenoblade, mario galaxy 2 and then nothing. Their release schedule definately looks very bad and Nintendo knew about this at least 6 month prior.
Its not even if. Wii relax is being developed. It was confirmed at E3. And yes if the wii has several multi million selling titles that will help to improve the current situation. At least it wont get outsold constantly by the PS3 or even the 360 in japan.NeonZ said:
Ofcourse it will probably not reach early wii numbers. they would have to release a completely new hit like brain training or wii sports to achieve that
MonHun Nikki: Poka Poka Ailu Mura (this week biggest release)
http://www.true-gaming.net/home/14030
Ace Combat: Joint Assault hits Japan
http://www.true-gaming.net/home/14028
more releases for the week
http://www.true-gaming.net/home/14026
http://www.true-gaming.net/home/14030
Ace Combat: Joint Assault hits Japan
http://www.true-gaming.net/home/14028
more releases for the week
http://www.true-gaming.net/home/14026
DS slowly and quietly has built again a very strong line-up for the end of the year.
18/09/10 [NDS] Pokemon Black / White (Pokemon Co.)
30/09/10 [NDS] Okamiden (Capcom)
07/10/10 [NDS] Kingdom Hearts Re: Coded (Square Enix)
25/11/10 [NDS] Super Robot Wars L (Bandai Namco)
02/12/10 [NDS] Momotaro Railway: World (Hudson)
09/12/10 [NDS] Ni no Kuni: The Ebony Wizard (Level 5)
xx/12/10 [NDS] Shiren the Wanderer 5: Fortune Tower and the Dice of Fate (Chunsoft)
xx/xx/10 [NDS] Golden Sun: Dark Dawn (Nintendo)
xx/xx/10 [NDS] Mario Vs. Donkey Kong: Miniland Mayhem (Nintendo)
18/09/10 [NDS] Pokemon Black / White (Pokemon Co.)
30/09/10 [NDS] Okamiden (Capcom)
07/10/10 [NDS] Kingdom Hearts Re: Coded (Square Enix)
25/11/10 [NDS] Super Robot Wars L (Bandai Namco)
02/12/10 [NDS] Momotaro Railway: World (Hudson)
09/12/10 [NDS] Ni no Kuni: The Ebony Wizard (Level 5)
xx/12/10 [NDS] Shiren the Wanderer 5: Fortune Tower and the Dice of Fate (Chunsoft)
xx/xx/10 [NDS] Golden Sun: Dark Dawn (Nintendo)
xx/xx/10 [NDS] Mario Vs. Donkey Kong: Miniland Mayhem (Nintendo)
farnham said:
That's not true, 2007 had quite a lot of decent 3rd Party releases, but most of them failed to sell.
And please don't come up with RE4 again! That's laughable, it was a budget re-release of a game everyone knew was great. Even I bought it, but only because it was so cheap.
farnham said:
While I'd be fine with a Prime 4, it's great to see a new traditional Metroid game. I think this one will do better than 100K LTD. Wiimote-only, 2-D, and good graphics could be making a big impact. Love the comparison to the original 1m+ Metroid in the commercials, too. Bound to pull in a few who remember the original.
100k LTD is not really a great accomplisment thoughdonny2112 said:While I'd be fine with a Prime 4, it's great to see a new traditional Metroid game. I think this one will do better than 100K LTD. Wiimote-only, 2-D, and good graphics could be making a big impact. Love the comparison to the original 1m+ Metroid in the commercials, too. Bound to pull in a few who remember the original.
also it looks like western reviewers will trash this game so the western sales might not be good
NeonZ
Member
iidesuyo said:
There just weren't many big 3rd party releases back in 2007, that's why there was actually an increase afterwards, with some announcements for 2008 and 2009 in spite of the low sales. There was the possibility of some untapped market having formed there.
Only when the few later games failed to sell satisfactorily to that market, the 3rd party support dropped completely. It was never really good, however, currently, after Sengoku Basara 3, it's almost non existent.
It's like this every year. It's worth repeating that DS & PSP games gets announced far closer to their release dates than their consoles counterparts who are hyped minimum 2 years before their release date.Chris1964 said:
Solatorobo is coming out as well in October.
Interestingly enough, this is one of the few games Nintendo has revealed their sales goals for.farnham said:
Source: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/34685/Nintendo-2m-sales-is-our-benchmarkMCVUK said:
I'm kind of curious what they will try next if this game doesn't hit their goals, since going back to Prime doesn't seem to solve their issue either.
Cygnus X-1
Member
Chris1964 said:
Of course it will bomb, BUT: will it sell better then the Prime series?
cw_sasuke said:
I listed titles that will do good numbers (>100k)Vic said:
I doubt Radiant Historia or Solatorobo will hit that mark.
Konami's Layton clone has a chance to sell well. Their previous Animal Crossing clone did good numbers.
28/10/10 [NDS] Zack & Ombra: The Phantom Theme Park (Konami)
xx/12/10 [NDS] Power Pro Kun Pocket 13 (Konami)
Really? Name some of these decent 2007 titles that failed to sell.iidesuyo said:
Only Metroid I was big and unless sinobi gives numbes for Metroid II and Super Metroid we'll never know what these two sold.Cygnus X-1 said:
06/08/86 [NFC] Metroid (Famicom Disc System) (Nintendo) - / 1.040.000
14/02/03 [GBA] Metroid Fusion (Nintendo) - 49.680 / 155.528
28/02/03 [GCN] Metroid Prime (Nintendo) - 39.829 / 78.384
27/05/04 [GBA] Metroid: Zero Mission (Nintendo) - 39.112 / 85.045
10/08/04 [GBA] Famicom Mini: Metroid (Nintendo) - 14.900 / 50.353
26/05/05 [GCN] Metroid Prime 2: Echoes (Nintendo) - 17.680 / 40.355
19/01/06 [NDS] Metroid Prime: Pinball (Nintendo) - / 15.541
01/06/06 [NDS] Metroid Prime: Hunters (Nintendo) - 32.613 / 90.028
06/03/08 [WII] Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (Nintendo) - 34.151 / 74.647
19/02/09 [WII] New Play Control! Metroid Prime (Nintendo) - 5.200 / 20.607
11/06/09 [WII] New Play Control! Metroid Prime 2: Echoes (Nintendo) - 1.700 / 12.427
If it sells more than 100k it will become the 3rd best selling Metroid ever:lol
Chris1964 said:
Wow. I knew Metroid wasn't the most popular of Nintendo's franchises in its home country, but I never knew it was *that* unpopular.
Also, how on earth did the series go from selling over a million copies on the Famicom to selling 10 percent of that with its first GBA outting?
Rocksteady33
Junior Member
When you have a series disappear for the good part of a decade, people tend to forget. I still remember Samus and Ness being the most confusing of the original Smash Bros. line up.d+pad said: