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Media Create Sales: Jan. 25 - 31, 2010

onken

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Stumpokapow said:
if he's the guy with the numbers and he feels like fudging them a bit stops MC... who are we to care?



okay but you're wrong here. he's not guessing. he has the numbers. he's been doing this for a long time. his numbers are useful to use.


Yeah I guess. I just don't like the subterfuge of fiddling the numbers, I wish he'd just give rounded figures or something.

Chris1964 said:
He really has the numbers but I agree that they shouldn't be posted at all since they differ a bit. The only reason I did it this time is because of the fake Famitsu hardware that gave a kind of different picture from reality.

A fair cop.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
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onken said:
That just sounds really bizarre, he either has the numbers or he hasn't, so I don't see how changing them a bit stops MC going after him.

In any rate, as far as I'm concerned, non actual = fake. Pretty much anybody can guess hardware numbers within a few k (I'm not saying he's guessing, but his numbers are about as useful as an educated guess).
He really has the numbers but I agree that they shouldn't be posted at all since they differ a bit. The only reason I did it this time is because of the fake Famitsu hardware that gave a kind of different picture from reality.
 

duckroll

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I wonder if sinobi will ever go back to posting first day sales figures on Fridays. I really miss that... :(
 

C.T.

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onken said:
Not that I'm one to defend Kotaku of all places, but all they're saying is is that at a first glance it appears PSP is on top, but when you combine all the DS skus it actually isn't. Not really that exciting...

yeah, of course it's non-news. That's the point. Could GAF ban them please? I went there with expectations of bad games journalism and didn't leave with disappointment. Still, I think that's to be expected there, isn't it?...


Stumpokapow said:
hahahaha you read sales coverage on non-gaf sites

How could you!!! Starting up my laptop and reading GAF comes first. Pissing and drinking a coffee second and third.
 

Road

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One of the reasons why most think SO4 is not going to replicate ToV:

COMGNET pre-order points:

[PS3] White Knight Chronicles - 313
[PS3] End of Eternity - 239
[PS3] Ar Tonelico 3 - 154
[PS3] Valkyria Chronicles - 138

[360] Tales of Vesperia - 225
[PS3] Tales of Vesperia - 483

[360] Star Ocean 4 - 224
[PS3] Star Ocean 4 - 93

Now, it's always possible people just opted to buy the game instead of pre-ordering it. We'll know next week.
 

onken

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C.T. said:
yeah, of course it's non-news. That's the point. Could GAF ban them please? I went there with expectations of bad games journalism and didn't leave with disappointment. Still, I think that's to be expected there, isn't it?...
.

If you really want to spare us from the horror of Kotaku then you can stop rushing to tell us all about their latest article, they hadn't even done anything wrong this time. If we went around banning every gaming site that posts stupid shit then there wouldn't be a single one left.

duckroll said:
I wonder if sinobi will ever go back to posting first day sales figures on Fridays. I really miss that... :(

Me too :(
 

Chris1964

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Dec 17, 2008
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Road said:
One of the reasons why most think SO4 is not going to replicate ToV:

COMGNET pre-order points:

[PS3] White Knight Chronicles - 313
[PS3] End of Eternity - 239
[PS3] Ar Tonelico 3 - 154
[PS3] Valkyria Chronicles - 138

[360] Tales of Vesperia - 225
[PS3] Tales of Vesperia - 483

[360] Star Ocean 4 - 224
[PS3] Star Ocean 4 - 93

Now, it's always possible people just opted to buy the game instead of pre-ordering it. We'll know next week.
Famitsu
[360] Star Ocean: The Last Hope (Square Enix) - 166.027 / 208.521

PS3 version will be lucky to do LTD what 360 did at its first week.
Edit: Amazon is already discounting 29%.
 

Road

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Well, all the hope is on FFXIII western sales.

Changing subjects.

Comparing the first 5 weeks of the year (hardware units sales; Media Create):
Code:
	   WII	    PS3	     360      PSP      NDS

2009	 244,000  145,000   56,000  343,000  550,000 
2010	 385,000  273,000   24,000  463,000  466,000 

%	    +58%     +88%     -57%     +35%     -15%

+/-	+142,000 +128,000  -31,000 +120,000  -84,000
 

Baki

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Jan 5, 2008
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Chris1964 said:
Famitsu
[360] Star Ocean: The Last Hope (Square Enix) - 166.027 / 208.521

PS3 version will be lucky to do LTD what 360 did at its first week.
Edit: Amazon is already discounting 29%.

Imagine how much Star Ocean 4 would have done if it had launched when the 360 version launched.
 

Peff

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Dec 10, 2008
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Man God said:
ToV is a much, much better game! :lol

ToV also had a lot of new content: new characters, full dialogue, secret bosses, DLC, special attacks... whereas SO4 only has subtitles in other languages and an awful English dub.
 

Paracelsus

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dolemite said:
Then why a late Tales port does great but not this one?

Because it's basically Tales of Vesperia 1.5/2, this one instead is a straight port, with little to no good word of mouth plus the nice pedigree coming from Infinite Undiscovery, which ended up hurting Resonance of Fate too, I'd bet.

Million seller, I'm sure.

/avatarquote
 

charlequin

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Oct 19, 2005
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EXGN said:
The Tales port did well, I was expecting the same for SO4?

Tales of Vesperia was a port of a game with excellent word of mouth and a huge amount of new content; SO4 is a port of a stinky turd dropped into a new box.

Nirolak said:

And yet, neither Durante nor icecream has expressed the slightest interest. :lol

Eteric Rice said:
I still think they should stick to the DS or Wii (especially DS, though). Games would probably sell just as much or more on the DS, plus it would be cheaper to make.

If there is any genre whose fanbase is 100% clearly committed to the PS3 in this market, it's the moe pervert RPG crowd.
 

GaimeGuy

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charlequin said:
If there is any genre whose fanbase is 100% clearly committed to the PS3 in this market, it's the moe pervert RPG crowd.
that would be the PC
 

Durante

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charlequin said:
And yet, neither Durante nor icecream has expressed the slightest interest. :lol
I know people here largely won't believe me, but the interesting things about AT1 and 2 (I have not yet played 3) include great music, a really unique setting with a well-developed backstory and great gameplay systems (eg. the innovative battle system in 2). It's not just "moe" -- that's a bit like saying that many recent Cave shooters only sell because of the scantily clad flying girls. Yes, they do try to fully hit their niche with that kind of appeal (and I won't pretend that I mind much), but its far from being the only reason for their success. In both cases, there is also unique, high quality gameplay there.

Anyway, I'll confirm my 75k prediction for SO4 FW. It's a direct port of a (by most reports) mediocre game released at a really bad time.
 

Baki

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dolemite said:
Then why a late Tales port does great but not this one?

Because ToV is a "good game" while Star Ocean is not "considered" a good game. The year delay has allowed this "notion" to spread through the public.
 

rykomatsu

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Durante said:
I know people here largely won't believe me, but the interesting things about AT1 and 2 (I have not yet played 3) include great music, a really unique setting with a well-developed backstory and great gameplay systems

Truth right there. While anecdotal, there are quite a few people who purportedly got into the series because they heard the music. While the music itself might not be mainstream music, it's difficult to deny that the production quality of the compositions are extremely high. Even 4 years after AT1's release, I still regularly listen to most of the albums..aside from a handful of tracks (not albums), I can't say the same for most any other music in my collection.

I can understand why people will blow off the game due to the fact that it, visually, does appeal to the anime crowd, but that's basically ignoring another vast aspect of the series.
 

charlequin

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Baki said:
Because ToV is a "good game" while Star Ocean is not "considered" a good game. The year delay has allowed this "notion" to spread through the public.

SO4 is two different sacks of crap that you have to constantly get up and switch between at arbitrary moments while you're sitting there enjoying your crappy crap. SO4:I is just an upgrade where they put all the crap in one really big sack.

While I understand that there are a few unusual souls out there who really enjoy where the Star Ocean series has gone lately, the reason the notion that the game is terrible has spread is that by and large the game is terrible and the vast majority of potential purchasers amongst the (fairly large) PS3-owning, RPG-liking crowd would not like it.
 

Hcoregamer00

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rykomatsu said:
Truth right there. While anecdotal, there are quite a few people who purportedly got into the series because they heard the music. While the music itself might not be mainstream music, it's difficult to deny that the production quality of the compositions are extremely high. Even 4 years after AT1's release, I still regularly listen to most of the albums..aside from a handful of tracks (not albums), I can't say the same for most any other music in my collection.

I can understand why people will blow off the game due to the fact that it, visually, does appeal to the anime crowd, but that's basically ignoring another vast aspect of the series.

I agree, while I cringe at the absurdity of some of the fanservice and dialog of Ar Tonelico, what I do enjoy about it is the amazing musical score.

I was won over because of the music, and the music is so good that I forced myself to overlook things that typically would annoy me greatly.
 

Dalthien

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Chris1964 said:
37. / 25. [PS3] Final Fantasy XIII (Square Enix)
50. / 40. [WII] Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Nintendo)
Random observation, but I just realized that Smash Bros. will finish higher than FF13, and with some room to spare as well.
 

ethelred

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Baki said:
Because ToV is a "good game" while Star Ocean is not "considered" a good game. The year delay has allowed this "notion" to spread through the public.

"I" love the ridiculous use of scare "quotes" in this "post."
 

ZoddGutts

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nodish2 said:
So you guys think this whole SO4 fiasco was worth it for SE?

Depends on how much money MS threw at Tri Ace to make it exclusive, they ended up sacrificing 300k+ sales (maybe even higher) on the PS3 if it had launch at the same time before all negative feedback of the game happened, which by the looks of it will cause the late port to sell not so well. Though for Namco it worked for TOV but that game didn't suck plus had a bunch of extras/content for the late port so it's sales on the PS3 were great.
 

Chris1964

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ZoddGutts said:
Depends on how much money MS threw at Tri Ace to make it exclusive, they ended up sacrificing 300k+ sales (maybe even higher) on the PS3 if it had launch at the same time before all negative feedback of the game happened, which by the looks of it will cause the late port to sell not so well. Though for Namco it worked for TOV but that game didn't suck plus had a bunch of extras/content for the late port so it's sales on the PS3 were great.
Where does this 300k+ come from? Do you think negative word of mouth wouldn't affect the sales of PS3 version? But even if it sold that much on PS3, releasing the game the same time for PS3 and 360 means that 360 version would sell much less that what has sold now.
Unless you believe it would sell 450k on PS3 and 200k on 360.
 
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Good old Namco:
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/02/06/god_cheater/
God Eater's demo was downloaded 1.5 million times. This probably makes it one of Namco Bandai's big releases for the year. Big enough to be thoroughly bug checked? Naaaah!

Following the game's release on Thursday, word began to spread about a major bug in the game. Not the annoying kind of bug that randomly deletes your save data, though. This is the totally neat kind of bug that lets you cheat, cheat, cheat your way to infinite buying power.

Apparently, the game's General Store shop sells a certain item for 50fc ("fc" is the game's currency). This item can be sold for 100 fc at the very same shop. The result? Net fcs!

1,790fc went to 1,000,020fc in a few hours of tinkering.

Based off Hachimaki's screens, it appears that there are a bunch of items that sell for more than their purchase price. The above item, a weapon known as "Kankakutai," has the greatest cheat-profit ratio.
Well done. Lets see if they get it right for God Eater G, God Eater Dos, God Eater Dos G, God Eater Tri...
 

ZoddGutts

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Chris1964 said:
Where does this 300k+ come from? Do you think negative word of mouth wouldn't affect the sales of PS3 version? But even if it sold that much on PS3, releasing the game the same time for PS3 and 360 means that 360 version would sell much less that what has sold now.
Unless you believe it would sell 450k on PS3 and 200k on 360.

Why not? SO3 sold over 500k. 300k+ on the PS3 alone could have been a good possibility.
 

onken

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nodish2 said:
So you guys think this whole SO4 fiasco was worth it for SE?

I'm going to say no. If you threw it out as multi from the start, lots of people would have bought it (on PS3) out of blind optimism. Sure, it wouldn't have made the game any better, but that's still a lot of copies on shelves, it keeps the game in mind and creates an automatic interest in the sequel.

Now we have this late port when it's well established that the game is shitty, people are just going to avoid it completely. When (if?) SO5 comes along, it's going to be automatically regarded as "the sequel to that shitty game that came out on that console that nobody owns".
 

Chris1964

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ZoddGutts said:
Why not? SO3 sold over 500k. 300k+ on the PS3 alone could have been a good possibility.
Saying they sacrificed 300k+ on PS3 means 300k more from what it will do no now (300k lost + 150k sold = 450k LTD) not 300k LTD.
 

duckroll

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If Star Ocean 4 was released multiplatform from the start, there is no way in hell that the 360 version will sell 200k. It will probably not even sell 100k lifetime.

The PS3 version will likely do better, maaaybe over 300k, but it won't reach SO3 sales because the word of mouth will most likely kill it off for good. So you'll have a total of under 400k across both systems, without any additional benefits they might have gotten from MS (free marketing push, subsidies, etc).

Where else now, let's say SO4 ships 100k on the PS3, that puts it at about 300k total. Not great by any means, but not a far cry from what I think they would have sold in the other scenario either.
 

Chris1964

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duckroll said:
If Star Ocean 4 was released multiplatform from the start, there is no way in hell that the 360 version will sell 200k. It will probably not even sell 100k lifetime.

The PS3 version will likely do better, maaaybe over 300k, but it won't reach SO3 sales because the word of mouth will most likely kill it off for good. So you'll have a total of under 400k across both systems, without any additional benefits they might have gotten from MS (free marketing push, subsidies, etc).

Where else now, let's say SO4 ships 100k on the PS3, that puts it at about 300k total. Not great by any means, but not a far cry from what I think they would have sold in the other scenario either.
That's what I think too.
 

onken

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SO4 came out a time when PS3 was gagging for a proper JRPG (quality didn't even come in to it), I think they could have shipped 500k easily (maybe, 450/50 split). We know how horrendously front-loaded JRPGs are, word of mouth wouldn't have done shit.

So, I would say they've lost 200k sales as well as the fairly heavy damage that the franchise reduction size is going to do to the sequel (assuming it gets one).
 

duckroll

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I think what people need to take away from ToV PS3 doing really well for a year old port, is that it is a game with excellent word of mouth, a dedicated core fanbase, and enough solid additional content to convince people to double dip. There is also the additional fact that JRPGs fans are definitely more supportive of the platform compared to the Wii and 360. These combined factors allowed it to not only surpass the 360 original in sales, but also surpass most other JRPGs on any current platform. But I'm sure a good percentage of the people buying the PS3 version are people who already had the 360 version, liked it a lot, and are now double dipping like they would for Tales of Destiny Director's Cut or Kingdom Hearts Final Mix.

It ToV had a single version across both platforms at launch, the breakdown most definitely would not be 160k + 330k.

onken said:
SO4 came out a time when PS3 was gagging for a proper JRPG (quality didn't even come in to it), I think they could have shipped 500k easily (maybe, 450/50 split). We know how horrendously front-loaded JRPGs are, word of mouth wouldn't have done shit.

And I think you're completely wrong about that. There is no way in hell SO4 would have shipped 500k on any platform in any universe.
 

duckroll

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Double-posting because I think it is so ridiculous:

onken claims that it was coming out at a period there PS3 owners were gagging for a proper JRPG and quality doesn't even factor in. Hmmm, I wonder what other PS3 JRPG came out at about that time with tons of marketing and during the holiday rush. Oh right, White Knight Chronicles. Why didn't it easily ship 500k? :lol
 

onken

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duckroll said:
And I think you're completely wrong about that. There is no way in hell SO4 would have shipped 500k on any platform in any universe.

Sorry, I disagree. Last numbers we have for SO4 are about 214k, which means it's probably shipped 250k on the 360. I think it's very plausible that it could have shipped 450k on PS3, but I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

duckroll said:
Double-posting because I think it is so ridiculous:

onken claims that it was coming out at a period there PS3 owners were gagging for a proper JRPG and quality doesn't even factor in. Hmmm, I wonder what other PS3 JRPG came out at about that time with tons of marketing and during the holiday rush. Oh right, White Knight Chronicles. Why didn't it easily ship 500k? :lol

Brand new franchise (and shipped about 350k to boot).
 

gogogow

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duckroll said:
Double-posting because I think it is so ridiculous:

onken claims that it was coming out at a period there PS3 owners were gagging for a proper JRPG and quality doesn't even factor in. Hmmm, I wonder what other PS3 JRPG came out at about that time with tons of marketing and during the holiday rush. Oh right, White Knight Chronicles. Why didn't it easily ship 500k? :lol
You could also say that WKC was a new IP and also an "average" game (7/8/7/7) and still did 340k.
It wouldn't be impossible to see Star Ocean 4, an established franchise released by Square Enix to do 400k+. While the words of mouth might not be good afterwards, the inital review scores were positive (9/9/8/8).
 

duckroll

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Tales is a bigger franchise than Star Ocean, if ToV doesn't ship 500k, there's no way SO4 would have.
 
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SO4 came out when PS3 lacked RPGs...and a healthy userbase. Same goes for TOV, I doubt it would have pulled its results 6 months before the Slim was released.

Releasing both back then alongside 360 versions wasn't going to improve much, just the PS3 would have had the bigger share. Both SO4 and TOV did 200k on 360, if they had been PS3-360 I doubt they would have done much more than 300k, just PS3 getting the 200k or more.

TOV total is at 541k already btw (203k + 338k), just ~15k short of Abyss original release.
 

Chris1964

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Dec 17, 2008
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gogogow said:
You could also say that WKC was a new IP and also an "average" game (7/8/7/7) and still did 340k.
It wouldn't be impossible to see Star Ocean 4, an established franchise released by Square Enix to do 400k+. While the words of mouth might not be good afterwards, the inital review scores were positive (9/9/8/8).
Who cares about Famitsu reviews?
 

duckroll

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onken said:
Tales is all over the place, so it's quite hard to compare them directly. But as it happens ToV has shipped over 500k across the two platforms.

Yes but did you read what I wrote? You cannot assume that those are all unique users.
 

gogogow

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Chris1964 said:
Who cares about Famitsu reviews?
So you are just gonna ignore the other points I made, which were obviously more important than the scores? :lol
 

Bebpo

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Jun 7, 2004
30,394
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39
Orange County, CA
duckroll said:
Tales is a bigger franchise than Star Ocean, if ToV doesn't ship 500k, there's no way SO4 would have.

I don't know. Tales is higher regarded in terms of being a good rpg series vs. a not good one. But damn those SO games sell pretty decent for being shitty games.
 

duckroll

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Bebpo said:
I don't know. Tales is higher regarded in terms of being a good rpg series vs. a not good one. But damn those SO games sell pretty decent for being shitty games.

I could say the same about Level 5's RPGs! :lol
 

Chris1964

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gogogow said:
So you are just gonna ignore the other points I made, which were obviously more important than the scores? :lol
What other points did you make? That Star Ocean is an established franchise and WKC a new one? Your post focuced on Famitsu reviews. You even searched to find them.