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Media Create Sales: July 12-18

Moor-Angol

Banned
Aug 26, 2005
4,504
2
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Japan
retrogamesheaven.com
Spiegel said:
Looks like S-E expected more from DQ:MBRV. At least that's what Dengeki says:

DQ:MBRV - 135k (40% sell-through)

considering DQ Swords sold 500k, it's impressive to see how 3rd party companies drop the ball with Wii.....

but DQ:MBRV is actually the best result in 2010 for a 3rd party game on Wii, S-E can't blaim this sales
 

BishopLamont

Banned
Apr 22, 2007
7,422
0
0
Stumpokapow said:
... the DS was significantly more successful than the PS2.
In Japan yes, but not quite worldwide, at this point the DS sells more hardware units but software the PS2 is in the lead, the PS2 was still receiving major software support at this point and for years to come, the DS on the other hand is going to receive much less support, I don't think it can keep selling much longer, let alone surpass the PS2.

If the 3DS wants to surpass the PS2, it needs proper western support. A victory in Japan only is meaningless.

Gaborn said:
Are you suggesting western developers won't be on board? Although I'm not necessarily saying that the 3DS will do equivalent numbers to the PS2, just that conditions for the 3DS's success are very similar if not identical to the PS2's sucess. Honestly, the PSP2 is probably a year or more away, and by that time the second generation of 3DS software is going to be out with an established userbase of some size. Not having direct current competition for a long time and being the follow up to the 2nd best selling system in history (behind only the PS2) has to make you fairly optimistic. If you're a developer why WOULDN'T you jump on board?

Stump - In Japan the DS was significantly more successful. Wikipedia at least as DS #2 to PS2 worldwide.
I don't believe what western devs say, they've sang the same song for the DS and Wii, and look at the situation. I don't doubt it, but I rather see it.
 

Brofist

Member
Jun 15, 2004
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onken said:
That may change though if they ever manage to prize exclusivity from Softbank.
Things have already changed, the iPhone is penetrating the market in a big way, and Softbank is growing rapidly as a carrier because of it.

I honestly don't know where in Japan Segata lives where people are indifferent to the iPhone, but if it's a rural area it's definitely not indicative of it's overall popularity.
 
Nov 17, 2006
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kpop100 said:
Things have already changed, the iPhone is penetrating the market in a big way, and Softbank is growing rapidly as a carrier because of it.

I honestly don't know where in Japan Segata lives where people are indifferent to the iPhone, but if it's a rural area it's definitely not indicative of it's overall popularity.
I didn't say "indifferent". I said it's "not the phenomenon that it is in the rest of the world". And it's not. It has definitely picked up steam, but the iPhone changed the entire mobile market in NA overnight. It hasn't done that here and it's not going to do that here.
 

cvxfreak

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Nirolak said:
I know they don't do a lot of online gaming, but aren't mobile devices very popular for using the internet in Japan?

However, I guess the odds of the 3DS working better for that than a phone aren't great.

NTT DoCoMo did say they were in discussion with gaming handheld companies over 3G integration though: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703636404575352681516157268.html


I doubt this would be a standard feature, but it sounds like at least one company is thinking about making 3G version of their device.
What's being done here right now is that a company called Emobile, another one of Japan's telecom companies that specializes in 3G internet access (rather than phone service), is working with major retailers to sell the DS, PSP and the iPod touch with Pocket WiFi dongles, so the cellular networks can be used for online play. Often, you can end up getting a DS, PSP or iPod Touch for free or a very low price (like ¥1000) with a 2-year contract. I own one of these dongles, though I haven't used them to go online with the DS or PSP. I use it with my MacBook, iPad and iPhone (so I don't double dip on net services).

I think Nintendo should make a 3G compatible version of the 3DS. It would really bolster the DSiWare store and the online capabilities of 3DS games. If Nintendo can work with DoCoMo to offer a really low price for monthly access to 3G, then I think it would work out very well for them.

If the 3DS's OS were based on Android, so the 3DS could be used as a capable web browser, then bring on the massive damage. I think that'd be enough to derail the iPhone in Japan, because I've noticed that many own an iPhone exclusively to browse the internet with, given that Softbank's service sucks donkey balls. Even I own a Japanese keitai by AU because of that.
 

Vic

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Mar 2, 2006
19,524
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Nirolak said:
I never said it would be an issue for the console's success.

I said it would be an issue for it being even more successful than the tremendously successful DS.

There's a very, very large difference there.
Point taken.


If they're not the new audience Nintendo is attracting, what is the audience that skipped the DS but will be won over in large enough numbers by the 3DS to make a major sales impact?
Here's a quote from Reggie about how they're positioning the 3DS:

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/nintendos-reggie-talks-3ds-iphone-wii-hd-and-more/

IG: In terms of the audience that the 3DS is aimed at... I had some feedback from some publishers that I spoke with, and it seems that they were telling me that you guys really are trying to position the 3DS towards more of a mature audience, because for the longest time Nintendo has been thought of as being “kiddie,” going all the way back to the Game Boy. With some of the content that we’ve already seen, whether it’s Resident Evil or Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater, it seems like there is more of a push towards the hardcore and the mature with the 3DS. Is that a fair assessment?

Reggie: Well, first, to correct a misperception, you can’t sell over 120 million devices across the world by only focusing on a “kiddie” market. So, the Nintendo DS is a very broad machine, enjoyed by, yes, consumers who are seven years old, as well as consumers who are ninety-seven years old. The way I would describe the market for the Nintendo 3DS would be the launch market that we had with the Nintendo DS plus the launch market that maybe PSP had. And the reason I frame it that way is we will attract all the Nintendo fans and all the Nintendo early adopters with products like Kid Icarus, and then we’ll incrementally add the consumer who loves Metal Gear, or the consumer who loves Resident Evil. That’s why in my view “DS plus” is a probably a better way to think about what the addressable market is.
 
Dec 18, 2004
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kpop100 said:
Things have already changed, the iPhone is penetrating the market in a big way, and Softbank is growing rapidly as a carrier because of it.

I honestly don't know where in Japan Segata lives where people are indifferent to the iPhone, but if it's a rural area it's definitely not indicative of it's overall popularity.
The iPhone isn't where the change is: according to [ケータイ白書2010(Mobile phone white pages 2010) as of 2009 end of October, iPhone user's were 1.4% of all mobile phone users in Japan.

Nor is it the sudden rise of mobile games.

The advent of social games where the threat is. Look at the success of mobile phone game/social game companies GREE, DeNA, whose net value is now more then square-enix.

The series of interviews with game companies ceo's on the Japanese Business website: there's many things they bring up as threats: pirates, used games. But a common theme for every single interview was the threat of social games and how existing gaming companies have dropped the ball on them.
 

onken

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kpop100 said:
Things have already changed, the iPhone is penetrating the market in a big way, and Softbank is growing rapidly as a carrier because of it.

I honestly don't know where in Japan Segata lives where people are indifferent to the iPhone, but if it's a rural area it's definitely not indicative of it's overall popularity.
No, iPhones really aren't that big in Japan, there's no debate about it. They're expensive and the exclusivity is definitely a huge blocker, just as it was in the UK back when it was exclusive to O2. The iPhone didn't really take off there until more companies carried it. (anecdote: I know literally ONE person here that's got an iPhone and he has a regular phone with au AS WELL because there's certain things that he can't do with it apparently)

Though exclusivity is not its only problem that's for sure.

FINALFANTASYDOG said:
The advent of social games where the threat is. Look at the success of mobile phone game/social game companies GREE, DeNA, whose net value is now more then square-enix.
.
Yeah good point.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
0
0
31. / 00. [PSP] Clannad: On the Hillside Path that Light Watches Over - Volume 2 (Prototype)
32. / 24. [PSP] Hatsune Miku: Project Diva [Dekkai Ohaidoku-han / Ohaidoku-han] (Sega)
33. / 21. [NDS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 (Square Enix)
34. / 18. [PS3] Atelier Totori: Alchemist of Arland 2 (Gust)
35. / 16. [PSP] My Summer Vacation Portable 2: The Mysterious Sisters and the Secrets of the Sunken Ship (SCE)
36. / 23. [360] Monster Hunter Frontier Online (Capcom)
37. / 29. [PSP] Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker (Konami)
38. / 33. [NDS] New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo)
39. / 17. [PS3] BlazBlue: Continuum Shift (Arc System Works)
40. / 28. [NDS] Tamagotchi no Pichi Pichi Omisecchi (Bandai Namco)
41. / 25. [WII] Xenoblade (Nintendo)
42. / 35. [WII] Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo)
43. / 27. [PS3] Grand Theft Auto IV: Episodes from Liberty City (Take-Two Interactive)
44. / 32. [NDS] Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective (Capcom)
45. / 34. [PSP] Fairy Tail: Portable Guild (Konami)
46. / 42. [NDS] Mega Man Zero Collection (Capcom)
47. / 30. [NDS] Toy Story 3 (Disney Interactive)
48. / 37. [WII] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Blue Samurai Challenge (Konami)
49. / 40. [NDS] Let's Make a Pro Soccer Club! DS World Challenge 2010 (Sega)
50. / 41. [NDS] Medarot DS: Kabuto / Kuwagata (Rocket Company)

00. / 00. [ALL] Weekly Software Sales (All Publishers) - 1.239.750 / 29.933.521 ( +10 %)


NDS - 21
PSP - 12
WII - 9
PS3 - 6
PS2 - 1
360 - 1


HARDWARE

Code:
__________________________________________________________________
|System |  This Week  |  Last Week  |        YTD  |         LTD  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  NDS  |     47.097  |     51.264  |  1.278.581  |  30.557.661  |
|  PSP  |     27.941  |     25.467  |  1.155.074  |  14.898.162  |
|  WII  |     22.239  |     24.604  |    865.788  |  10.470.987  |
|  PS3  |     19.473  |     18.345  |    794.143  |   5.295.510  |
|  360  |      5.936  |      5.688  |    117.593  |   1.327.265  |
|  PS2  |      1.507  |      1.558  |     48.437  |  21.658.614  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
| DSiLL |     25.884  |     28.916  |    682.916  |   1.189.823  |
|  DSi  |     16.318  |     17.356  |    469.057  |   4.808.003  |
|  DSL  |      4.895  |      4.992  |    126.608  |  17.974.364  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  PSP  |     26.786  |     24.421  |  1.115.112  |  14.782.445  |
| PSPgo |      1.155  |      1.046  |     39.962  |     115.717  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Cygnus X-1

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schuelma said:
3DS can't come soon enough. This is so boring.
Yeah. I remember the period 2004-2007, in which the DS scored record after record. This thread became really big and the discussions always were enjoyable.
 

Grampasso

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Cygnus X-1 said:
Yeah. I remember the period 2004-2007, in which the DS scored record after record. This thread became really big and the discussions always were enjoyable.
Yeah. And they were full of bans :lol
 

Cygnus X-1

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Chris1964 said:
Next week releases (29/07/10)

[NDS] Kamen Rider Battle: Ganbaride Card Battle Taisen (Bandai Namco)
[NDS] Metal Max 3 (Kadokawa Shoten)
[NDS] Wizardry: Boukyaku no Isan (Genterprise)
[NDS] Suki Desu Suzuki-kun!! 4-nin no Suzuki-kun (Idea Factory)

[PSP] Hatsune Miku: Project Diva 2 (Sega)
[PSP] Ys Vs. Sora no Kiseki: Alternative Saga (Nihon Falcom)
[PSP] GA - Geijutsuka Art Design Class: Slapstick Wonder Land (Russel)
[PSP] Koisuru Otome to Shugo no Tate Portable (Alchemist)
[PSP] ModNation Racers (SCE)
[PSP] NeoGeo Heroes: Ultimate Shooting (SNK Playmore)
[PSP] Second Novel: Kanojo no Natsu, 15-Bun no Kioku (Nippon Ichi Software)
[PSP] Takuyo Mix Box: First Anniversary (Takuyo)

[WII] Sengoku Basara 3 (Capcom)
[WII] Aim!! Fishing Master: Challenge the World! [Hudson the Best] (Hudson)

[PS3] Sengoku Basara 3 (Capcom)
[PS3] ModNation Racers (SCE)

[360] Memories Off: Yubikiri no Kioku (5pb.)
[360] Agarest Senki Zero: Dawn of War (Compile Heart)
[360] Strike Witches: Shirogane no Tsubasa (CyberFront)
[360] Supreme Commander 2 (Square Enix)

[PS2] Natsuzora no Monologue (Idea Factory)
[PS2] Samurai Warriors 2 [PlayStation 2 the Best Reprint] (Koei Tecmo)
[PS2] Samurai Warriors 2: Empires [PlayStation 2 the Best Reprint] (Koei Tecmo)
[PS2] Nobunaga's Ambition: Iron Triangle with Power-Up Kit [Koei Tecmo the Best] (Koei Tecmo)
I'm still somehow impressed by the big support the PSP receives in Japan from third parties. Bigger then the DS and still increasing, whereas the support for the DS is decreasing.

Probably this is due to the approaching 3DS, but in last 2 years, after the Monster Hunter Portable phenomenon, I really saw a shift of the developing resources in Japan from DS to PSP. And none knew at that time of the 3DS.
If one adds the fact that western support for portables in almost inexistent, it is quite impressive that the DS, in the end, sold 130 millions systems till now with so little credit to third parties. Sure, their importance was bigger then compared to the past, but still quite negligible compared to games developed by Nintendo. I'm basing this affirmation on the best selling titles on DS. The link can be found HERE

But the most interesting question I always have in mind is: do people when they buy games really distinguish between a Nintendo game and games from third parties? Fans can do it, but the mass market? I really doubt it.
People always repeat that only Nintendo's games sell on Nintendo's systems. But I really wonder if developers just once thought if it really makes sense to assume that the mass market distinguish the maker and the developer of a game. For me, it doesn't.

It is the quality of the game, the word of mouth, the reputation of a franchise and the commercialization that decide if a game will sell or not, IMHO.
 

Chris1964

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Dec 17, 2008
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Cygnus X-1 said:
I'm still somehow impressed by the big support the PSP receive in Japan from third parties. Bigger then the DS and still increasing, whereas the support for the DS is decreasing.
The real surprise is that between the two handhelds the same situation (kind of) exists in West.
 

Jokeropia

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BishopLamont said:
In Japan yes, but not quite worldwide, at this point the DS sells more hardware units but software the PS2 is in the lead, the PS2 was still receiving major software support at this point and for years to come, the DS on the other hand is going to receive much less support, I don't think it can keep selling much longer, let alone surpass the PS2.
Unless Nintendo stops making them the moment 3DS is released, the DS will without a doubt outsell PS2 worldwide.
 

jrricky

Banned
Feb 12, 2007
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32
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BishopLamont said:
In Japan yes, but not quite worldwide, at this point the DS sells more hardware units but software the PS2 is in the lead, the PS2 was still receiving major software support at this point and for years to come, the DS on the other hand is going to receive much less support, I don't think it can keep selling much longer, let alone surpass the PS2.
You are babbling dog poo...
 

Cygnus X-1

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Chris1964 said:
The real surprise is that between the two handhelds the same situation (kind of) exists in West.
If third parties don't sell well on Nintendo's systems is their faults to not satisfying the conditions written above, but it's also a partial incompatibility between some franchise and Nintendo's systems. In other words, franchise like MGS, RE, SH or GTA really require a large fanbase to sell well. And that fanbase usually do not buy Nintendo's systems.
In other words, the inability of third parties to sell well on Nintendo's systems is probably also due to the fact that even if DS base is much large, it contains countless different categories, whereas the base of PSP, but also PS3 and X360 have a massive, concentrated hardcore base.

In other words, it is just like chemistry: if you want a reaction to occur, the concentratons of the educt must be sufficiently large to make two molecules react with each other, or, the reactivity of one of them, or both, must be sufficiently large. (Try to deprotonate with BuLi or with Pyridine; the former will react violently and the second one will react sluggishly!).

Thus, third parties games will sell on Nintendo's systems only if they are really AAA, knows franchises. And anyway, they'll probably sell less then predicted. But if one has a known, but not massive franchise, launching it on a Nintendo's system will probably lead to a semi-failure. It is just as simple as it is.

Why then Nintendo's games always sell well? Probably because they can appeal to most categories.
Third parties still make games that sell in a very specific way to a very specific audience. And about this, Yoichi Wada was right: nobody really succeeded at globalization, from that point of view (outside Nintendo).
 

Cygnus X-1

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Vic said:
Here's a quote from Reggie about how they're positioning the 3DS:
The 3DS has as one of its main objectives to steal a large part of PSP fanbase. That's why it has some quite powerful specs for a Nintendo handheld. And that's why franchise like RE and MGS are being developed.
But let me say: I'm skeptic.
I'm sure that 3DS will be a smashing success, but with the same inheritances on the original DS. In other words, I expect a full passage of DS owners from the DS to the 3DS. This is enough to make shortages for years. But I doubt that people owning PSP will massively buy the 3DS, outside who has both handhelds.
 

Jokeropia

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Cygnus X-1 said:
If third parties don't sell well on Nintendo's systems is their faults to not satisfying the conditions written above, but it's also a partial incompatibility between some franchise and Nintendo's systems. In other words, franchise like MGS, RE, SH or GTA really require a large fanbase to sell well. And that fanbase usually do not buy Nintendo's systems.
In other words, the inability of third parties to sell well on Nintendo's systems is probably also due to the fact that even if DS base is much large, it contains countless different categories, whereas the base of PSP, but also PS3 and X360 have a massive, concentrated hardcore base.
Are you really saying that the PSP has a massive western base for games like MGS, RE, SH or GTA? Because I can point out some serious flaws in that.
Cygnus X-1 said:
Thus, third parties games will sell on Nintendo's systems only if they are really AAA, knows franchises. And anyway, they'll probably sell less then predicted. But if one has a known, but not massive franchise, launching it on a Nintendo's system will probably lead to a semi-failure. It is just as simple as it is.
This is just completely false. There are 69 third party million sellers on DS and 57 on Wii. Can you name that many AAA third party games? Actually, the best example of such a game would be DQIX, which is Japan's best selling non-Nintendo game of all time.
 

Spiegel

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Chris1964 said:
The real surprise is that between the two handhelds the same situation (kind of) exists in West.
I don't think that's true. In Japan publishers had decent to good sales in the past and started increasing the support accordingly to that.

We all know the situation of both handhelds outside of Japan and I also think they are supporting them accordingly to that situation. Always keeping in mind that western publishers don't take handheld gaming seriously.

PSP gets some licensed games and shares some games with PS3/360 (Split/Second, Army of Two, Dante's Inferno) but it's pretty obvious that major western publishers (f.e Activision) have abandoned the platform. EA is probably the biggest supporter.

DS gets all the licensed games, smaller original efforts and most of the big multiplatform games. All the major western publishers are supporting the platform.
 

cvxfreak

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The iPhone shipped 1.69 million units as of the end of their last fiscal year.

It's no THAT popular in Japan yet. I think their advocates have big mouths, which makes it seem more popular than it is. Softbank has a smaller subscriber base than the amount of DS systems sold in Japan, which should say something.
 

ULTROS!

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cvxfreak said:
The iPhone shipped 1.69 million units as of the end of their last fiscal year.

It's no THAT popular in Japan yet. I think their advocates have big mouths, which makes it seem more popular than it is. Softbank has a smaller subscriber base than the amount of DS systems sold in Japan, which should say something.
Well, I'm guessing it's very very very hard to break in the Mobile Phone market since technically everyone has a DoCoMo and it's like a standard there when I was at Japan (Osaka, Tokyo).

Anyway, next MC will be interesting with Sengoku Basara 3 for PS3 vs. Wii.
 
Nov 17, 2006
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ULTROS! said:
Well, I'm guessing it's very very very hard to break in the Mobile Phone market since technically everyone has a DoCoMo and it's like a standard there when I was at Japan (Osaka, Tokyo).

Anyway, next MC will be interesting with Sengoku Basara 3 for PS3 vs. Wii.
Yeah, it's like...

Docomo - 55 million subscribers
KDDI - 35 million subscribers
Softbank - 22 million subscribers

or something like that.

There were a lot of mistakes made with the iPhone in Japan. Tying themselves to Softbank was a big one (their coverage is absolute shit compared to the other two), and not having important region-specific utilities like Edy or Suica ready to go in the launch period was another big one. They've fixed the latter, but they're stuck with the former.

Softbank is even digging in their heels against unlocked SIMs on the iPhone (which the rest of the industry is looking to adopt here) since they had to slash the iPhone price so much to move them that they can't make money off them unless people are signing up for contracts with the purchase.
 

Cygnus X-1

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Jokeropia said:
Are you really saying that the PSP has a massive western base for games like MGS, RE, SH or GTA? Because I can point out some serious flaws in that.
About the western situation, the situation is kinda different, because, in the first place, the installed base is not so active as in Japan. The revitalization of PSP in Japan was due mostly because of MHP, and from that event, third party interest began to grow once again. Whereas in the west, no similar event took place and thus there was no reason to develop games for it. Second point, is that PSP got a quite large interest for its non-gaming properties, at the beginning. I'm saying at the beginning, because the iPhone tok this role after, but before that PSP was selling so well (mostly in the EU), also because of that.
And third, in the west, development for handheld always has been much smaller compared to home systems. Even in the era of the Gameboy, the western third party interest was quite small.
You can check that HERE

This is just completely false. There are 69 third party million sellers on DS and 57 on Wii. Can you name that many AAA third party games? Actually, the best example of such a game would be DQIX, which is Japan's best selling non-Nintendo game of all time.
Sure, Dragon Quest IX sold incredibly well, but...let's look at the games in detail: alongside DQIX, we have Dragon Quest Monster Joker, Dragon Quest IV, Dragon Quest V, Dragon Quest VI, FFIII, FFIV and FFXII Revenant Wings, who are incredibly popular franchises in Japan. So obviously, one expect them so sell very well. And then we have the games developed by Level 5, i.e. Professor Layton and Inazuma Eleven, who constitute the true exceptions. But they're new franchise after all, born on a system when it was on the peak of its popularity. I was talking mostly about existing franchise.

But in the end, outside exceptions who always can be found everywhere, it is impressive to note that on 59 million sellers listed on Wikipedia (they're probably more right now), the large majority remains made in Nintendo and "made near Nintendo". My point was that the DS did not change this situation, eventually and that DS success has relatively little to do with third parties. More then in the past, sure, but they're still the contour of DS's mass market story.

Then of course, for a gamer, DS has a lot of incredibly good third party games. But it was not my point.

Edit: forgot to answer you about the Wii. AAA titles that sold well, but less then predicted: Monster Hunter 3. Other examples are rare, because third parties concluded long ago that the audience of the Wii is too much "diluted" to sell big production games at high levels.

Just an additional important thing: maybe when I wrote AAA titles, it was somehow an unhappy term, i.e. I intended games with large budget and mostly from already known franchises. The "AAA" term was not very clear indeed.
 

cvxfreak

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We can now use Suica and Edy with the iPhone? How does that work?

I'm not talking about case-based solutions, but real osaifu-keitai utility. I like how Mobile Suica lets you use your credit card to recharge. Can't do that with traditional cards.
 
Nov 17, 2006
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Koga, Ibaraki, Japan
cvxfreak said:
We can now use Suica and Edy with the iPhone? How does that work?

I'm not talking about case-based solutions, but real osaifu-keitai utility. I like how Mobile Suica lets you use your credit card to recharge. Can't do that with traditional cards.
I think Edy's working with it. Not sure about Suica.
 

Chris1964

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Spiegel said:
DS gets all the licensed games, smaller original efforts and most of the big multiplatform games. All the major western publishers are supporting the platform.
DS support from major western publishers is a joke.
onken said:
Anyway, the 3DS will sell very well I'm sure, but people expecting it to destroy the DS sales records may well be in for a surprise.
Looks like I'm not alone at this.

I don't think what DS has done is easy to be repeated. It started with small (serious) third party support and its sales took off only with Nintendo's first party titles. Third parties in Japan followed (but not all of them) but West never looked seriously to the system.

3DS starts with Nintendo and full support this time from Japanese third parties. West once again doesn't look to care and I doubt the system will get significantly more support from what DS had. Unless anyone expects Ubisoft, THQ, EA or Activision to shift their major develepment teams to a handheld. So it's all up to Japan again.
 

Celine

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Jokeropia said:
Unless Nintendo stops making them the moment 3DS is released, the DS will without a doubt outsell PS2 worldwide.
Yep.
Also Wii will outsell PS1 LTD in the end, IMO.
 
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Chris1964 said:
DS support from major western publishers is a joke.

Looks like I'm not alone at this.

I don't think what DS has done is easy to be repeated. It started with small (serious) third party support and its sales took off only with Nintendo's first party titles. Third parties in Japan followed (but not all of them) but West never looked seriously to the system.

3DS starts with Nintendo and full support this time from Japanese third parties. West once again doesn't look to care and I doubt the system will get significantly more support from what DS had. Unless anyone expects Ubisoft, THQ, EA or Activision to shift their major develepment teams to a handheld. So it's all up to Japan again.
People say this but I never found out why they do say it lol. Are Western Publishers just focused on systems with more power or something? Is the home console their only focus? There has to be some reason why they wouldnt give their all to portables.
 
Nov 14, 2005
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FINALFANTASYDOG said:
Just so I can be of semi use to the thread here is some fun facts:

Top RPG sales this year(Home Consoles):
1-White Knight Chronicles: Awakening of Light and Darkness  210K~
2- FF13 190k~
3- PS3 EOE 180k~
4- PS3 SO4 150K~
5- PS3 Nier 130K~
6 - Xenoblade 120k~
7 - Ar-Tonelico3: 110k~
8-  Atelier Totori: Alchemist of Arland 2 90k~
9 - Demons Soul 50k~
Man, i really hope Sony and From get together for another Demon's Souls. Those numbers gotta be encouraging.
 
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Is hardware sales really that interesting? Total bore to me. Hey look DS just sold another 150k for the 50th week in a row, its now at 26450k, woo can't take so much excitement at once.

Much more interesting seeing this week software with new Fire Emblem remake, new DQ spinoff, Pawapuro jumping ship, brand-new outsourced RPG from Capcom...
 

Spiegel

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Kurosaki Ichigo said:
Is hardware sales really that interesting? Total bore to me. Hey look DS just sold another 150k for the 50th week in a row, its now at 26450k, woo can't take so much excitement at once.

Much more interesting seeing this week software with new Fire Emblem remake, new DQ spinoff, Pawapuro jumping ship, brand-new outsourced RPG from Capcom...
Well, I think people (me included) wants new hardware because the outcome of this gen is not going to change.

For example, it doesn't matter if Last Ranker bombs or not because decisions based on those sales are not going to affect the psp. It's too late for Capcom to start planning another RPG for PSP now. Or the sales of the new DQ spinoff don't matter that much because DQX has already been announced for Wii.

The start of a new generation is always interesting because both hardware and software sales in the first years are what define the support for the next years (barring anomalies like MH-PSP).
 
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Dedication Through Light said:
lol wouldnt they? I thought that game far exceeded Atlus's expectations (280,000 units in the US)
Yea, the game got good sales in the US. Just surprised by those numbers, since RPG's typically do most of their business quite early in Japan, so for an RPG released a while ago to still sell a bit is good news, and might indicate demand for a sequel. I know i want one.
 
Apr 17, 2005
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Spiegel said:
Well, I think people (me included) wants new hardware because the outcome of this gen is not going to change.

For example, it doesn't matter if Last Ranker bombs or not because decisions based on those sales are not going to affect the psp. It's too late for Capcom to start planning another RPG for PSP now. Or the sales of the new DQ spinoff don't matter that much because DQX has already been announced for Wii.

The start of a new generation is always interesting because both hardware and software sales in the first years are what define the support for the next years (barring anomalies like MH-PSP).
That's just taking software as another hardware gauge. Boring.

What's interesting about Last Ranker is seeing what it does for itself, for Image Epoch, for the RPG genre, for the new IPs, for Capcom. Not what it does for PSP, woohoo sold 2k more this week, total at 14898k instead of 14896k woo.

Pawapuro move from PS2-Wii to PS3-PSP is more interesting than all hardware sales this year. And not what it means for PS2-Wii-PS3-PSP but for the franchise, for the rival franchise Pro Baseball Spirits, for Konami, for other baseball franchises from other developers..

Also, those good-old 10-page, 1000 replies threads are full of damage control of your system manufacturer of choice, bash of systems not from your manufacturer of choice, rooting of your system manufacturer of choice and similar stupidity over and over. Yeah, no interest here. I'm going to end up buying all systems, why should I care what ends up where, I rather care so there's still something I'm interested ending up somewhere!
 

cvxfreak

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The 3DS will have some obstacles in terms of matching the popularity of the DS. I don't think the 3DS will win over much of the crowd that bought the DS just for Brain Age or the crowd that wants simple, commuter-friendly games because the DS is still going to be quite a good machine for that type of entertainment. The DS was able to take off and quickly bury the GBA in Japan because the DS was new and unprecedented five years ago. The 3DS will not bury the DS as quickly because the DS will not be as obsolete as the GBA was when the DS and PSP hit.

There's also the emerging smartphone game market and future competition from Sony that will weigh in on 3DS sales. If Nintendo can bring over some of the PSP fanbase, then I think they'll be able to offset the decline in the number of non-gamers. Even better, if Nintendo can make the 3DS into a machine that can do what the iOS and Android can do, then that might bring in people who might not otherwise be interested in a handheld gaming system.
 

Spiegel

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Kurosaki Ichigo said:
That's just taking software as another hardware gauge. Boring.

What's interesting about Last Ranker is seeing what it does for itself, for Image Epoch, for the RPG genre, for the new IPs, for Capcom. Not what it does for PSP, woohoo sold 2k more this week, total at 14898k instead of 14896k woo.

Pawapuro move from PS2-Wii to PS3-PSP is more interesting than all hardware sales this year. And not what it means for PS2-Wii-PS3-PSP but for the franchise, for the rival franchise Pro Baseball Spirits, for Konami, for other baseball franchises from other developers..

Also, those good-old 10-page, 1000 replies threads are full of damage control of your system manufacturer of choice, bash of systems not from your manufacturer of choice, rooting of your system manufacturer of choice and similar stupidity over and over. Yeah, no interest here. I'm going to end up buying all systems, why should I care what ends up where, I rather care so there's still something I'm interested ending up somewhere!
I mostly agree with you, software sales are much more interesting but what I'm saying is that software sales matter much less the closer we get to the end of the generation.

For example, it would have been much more exciting if Last Ranker was released earlier in the gen and was very successful because we probably would have got more original RPGs from Capcom and other companies (not only for psp but also for all the consoles). But the thing is that LR was released at the end of the generation and I don't think Capcom will take many decisions based on that result.

I really don't follow Sales-Age because I like seeing numbers, I do it to see market trends and how those changes affect the games I like.
 

Jokeropia

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Cygnus X-1 said:
About the western situation, the situation is kinda different, because, in the first place, the installed base is not so active as in Japan. The revitalization of PSP in Japan was due mostly because of MHP, and from that event, third party interest began to grow once again. Whereas in the west, no similar event took place and thus there was no reason to develop games for it. Second point, is that PSP got a quite large interest for its non-gaming properties, at the beginning. I'm saying at the beginning, because the iPhone tok this role after, but before that PSP was selling so well (mostly in the EU), also because of that.
And third, in the west, development for handheld always has been much smaller compared to home systems. Even in the era of the Gameboy, the western third party interest was quite small.
You can check that HERE
Right. Even in Japan however, I don't see how you can suggest that PSP has a bigger audience for third party games than DS. Just look at the numbers.
Cygnus X-1 said:
Sure, Dragon Quest IX sold incredibly well, but...let's look at the games in detail: alongside DQIX, we have Dragon Quest Monster Joker, Dragon Quest IV, Dragon Quest V, Dragon Quest VI, FFIII, FFIV and FFXII Revenant Wings, who are incredibly popular franchises in Japan. So obviously, one expect them so sell very well.
But you also claimed that even such franchises would underperform on Nintendo systems.
Cygnus X-1 said:
But in the end, outside exceptions who always can be found everywhere, it is impressive to note that on 59 million sellers listed on Wikipedia (they're probably more right now), the large majority remains made in Nintendo and "made near Nintendo". My point was that the DS did not change this situation, eventually and that DS success has relatively little to do with third parties. More then in the past, sure, but they're still the contour of DS's mass market story.
Nintendo definitely made the DS a huge success primarily on their own, but the Japanese third parties in particular made sure to join in and expand on that success.

As of March 31 2010, the DS has 45 first party million sellers and 69 third party million sellers.
Cygnus X-1 said:
Edit: forgot to answer you about the Wii. AAA titles that sold well, but less then predicted: Monster Hunter 3.
Predicted by who? If you're referring to Capcom's expectations (can't quite remember what those were), I can name several PS3 & 360 games (many from Capcom) that fell far more short than MH3.
Cygnus X-1 said:
Other examples are rare, because third parties concluded long ago that the audience of the Wii is too much "diluted" to sell big production games at high levels.
They concluded this without actually having any evidence for it, and eventually it became a self-fullfilling prophecy for those third parties. (Possibly, we still don't really have any examples to judge by. Epic Mickey perhaps.)

In either case, it's remarkable that Wii has 57 third party million sellers despite this lack of AAA support.
 

Jokeropia

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BishopLamont said:
Show me how.
It's less than 15 million units behind as of March 31 this year and catching up rapidly? It's almost 40 million ahead of where PS2 was at this point in it's life?
 

Stumpokapow

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Jokeropia said:
It's less than 15 million units behind as of March 31 this year and catching up rapidly? It's almost 40 million ahead of where PS2 was at this point in it's life?
You can just literally look at Nintendo's FY targets (30 million - 3DS shipments), note that Nintendo has to revise up a lot more than they have to revise down, and do the math. Even if you put it at 50 million units behind the PS2's lifetime it'd be difficult for it to not pass it in the end :p
 

Cygnus X-1

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Jokeropia said:
Right. Even in Japan however, I don't see how you can suggest that PSP has a bigger audience for third party games than DS. Just look at the numbers.
PSP has not a bigger audience. It has a more effective, responsive audience toward third party games, in Japan. This became true after MH success and it still keep going. DS performs NOW well with selective third party games. Let me just add that this was not true at the peaks of the DS, i.e. during 2006-2008/9, i.e. it seemed that every third party game could perform better then their respective predecessors. But then Nintendo shifted development from DS to Wii almost entirely, leaving DS to third parties. This went quite good for some time, but eventually PSP rose as the new handheld in Japan and then at this point Nintendo launched the DSi.
But again, if FFIII, for example would have come out on PSP as well, for example, I would not bet on an underperforming in comparison. Maybe it would have sold even more, considering the type of userbase on PSP. But we'll never know.

But you also claimed that even such franchises would underperform on Nintendo systems.
Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are giant franchises. So, their successes are almost near to the certitude. Square-Enix did not risk too much on that front. What we can discuss about is the entities of their success. In other words, let's look at the games: FFIII was taken as test to see if the userbase was there and it was done while the DS's popularity was at its peak and at the same time to bring some FF fans (that are also DQ fans) to the DS. Monster Joker was also a test in comparison for the future DQIX (same thing is carried out for Wii. The Joker that came out last week is a test for DQX, but that's another story).

The point is that, in order to sell well on DS, a third party game has to be popular, whereas on PSP, even smaller, less known third party games can succeed.
Of course this is a tendency, not a rule. And it is valid more in last 2 years. Exceptions, like the games of Level 5 can be found. But Sega games, Namco-Bandai games, Capcom games generally sold better on PSP then on DS (even during DS's peak somehow this was true), because the userbase is smaller, but more responsive and more hardcore. At least, this is one of the major reasons. Not the only one.

Nintendo definitely made the DS a huge success primarily on their own, but the Japanese third parties in particular made sure to join in and expand on that success.

As of March 31 2010, the DS has 45 first party million sellers and 69 third party million sellers.
Yeah, but again, the proportion Nintendo/third parties is >>>1 (maybe even >10...).

Predicted by who? If you're referring to Capcom's expectations (can't quite remember what those were), I can name several PS3 & 360 games (many from Capcom) that fell far more short than MH3.
By comparison with the giant success of MH on PSP. But again, it is true that we lack other games as examples. The decision to not develop games on Wii has anyway its reasons.

They concluded this without actually having any evidence for it, and eventually it became a self-fullfilling prophecy for those third parties. (Possibly, we still don't really have any examples to judge by. Epic Mickey perhaps.)

In either case, it's remarkable that Wii has 57 third party million sellers despite this lack of AAA support.
Yeah, but I never believed too much in the "legendary idiocy" of third parties. What they do has a reason after all. Debatable, but reasonable. About the DS, I already explained my reasons. About the Wii, it is different: third parties claim to have problem to "read" the audience so that a title can be successful. This is true and false at the same time. True, because Wii suffers somehow the same problem of the DS (but let me restate that on DS this problem is not tragic, whereas on Wii is much more enhanced): there is not a major type of audience; there are many different categories and thus a game has to attract at the same time many of them to be successful. Additionally, third party games are less suited for the Wii for technical reasons, because most developments teams are shifted since long time to HD and Wii's developments are second rate teams, mostly. Mostly, but not all of them. In addition, any scaling down of HD games to SD games is costly and ineffective qualitatively.
Another crucial point is that is is actually difficult and even expensive to create a R&D team that can think of a good idea about how to use the Wiimote decently.

So, in the end, for third parties, it is more intelligent to stay developing games for TWO (and that's the key of lecture) HD systems, instead of one SD system, even is crazily successful.
It is nevertheless false, because some third parties anyway realized that there is a way to sell well on Wii. Just making some clever choices. Music games, for example are well suited (Rock band, Guitar Hero, Just Dance). Party games, since Wii is a social console, are also quite well suited.
Shooters is perfect technically, but not pratically, i.e. the interface via Wiimote is great, but the implementation not to straightforward. And mostly, usually shooters fans are not happy with less then stellar graphics, physics and AI. Thus, Wii is not quite suited. Exceptions come only for Retro, that had time, money and creativity, because Retro is Nintendo.
Other games that had success are some sport games (using the success of Wii Sports) and some Fitness games (thanks to WiiFit).

Otherwise, you you want to be successful on Wii, you need really to bring some large franchise, like MH or the incoming DQX.

The problem is that most third party games are medium-good quality and not particularly innovative. Selling them on Wii would be a suicide for the reasons above. That's why the third parties on Wii are very selective and very carefully.

I don't know if Nintendo really care, considering the giant pile of cash they earned with DS and Wii...
 

Chris1964

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Cygnus X-1 said:
PSP has not a bigger audience. It has a more effective, responsive audience toward third party games, in Japan. This became true after MH success and it still keep going. DS performs NOW well with selective third party games. Let me just add that this was not true at the peaks of the DS, i.e. during 2006-2008/9, i.e. it seemed that every third party game could perform better then their respective predecessors. But then Nintendo shifted development from DS to Wii almost entirely, leaving DS to third parties. This went quite good for some time, but eventually PSP rose as the new handheld in Japan and then at this point Nintendo launched the DSi.
But again, if FFIII, for example would have come out on PSP as well, for example, I would not bet on an underperforming in comparison. Maybe it would have sold even more, considering the type of userbase on PSP. But we'll never know.

Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are giant franchises. So, their successes are almost near to the certitude. Square-Enix did not risk too much on that front. What we can discuss about is the entities of their success. In other words, let's look at the games: FFIII was taken as test to see if the userbase was there and it was done while the DS's popularity was at its peak and at the same time to bring some FF fans (that are also DQ fans) to the DS. Monster Joker was also a test in comparison for the future DQIX (same thing is carried out for Wii. The Joker that came out last week is a test for DQX, but that's another story).

The point is that, in order to sell well on DS, a third party game has to be popular, whereas on PSP, even smaller, less known third party games can succeed.
Of course this is a tendency, not a rule. And it is valid more in last 2 years. Exceptions, like the games of Level 5 can be found. But Sega games, Namco-Bandai games, Capcom games generally sold better on PSP then on DS (even during DS's peak somehow this was true), because the userbase is smaller, but more responsive and more hardcore. At least, this is one of the major reasons. Not the only one.
These statements about DS in Japan couldn't be more wrong.
 

Cygnus X-1

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Chris1964 said:
These statements about DS in Japan couldn't be more wrong.
Well, to make it short, I just had the impression that after Monster Hunter Portable, third party games generally found more success of PSP then DS, excluding Level 5- and Dragon Quest games. This would explain why PSP is getting more and more support since more or less 2 years.
Is this impression wrong after all?
 

donny2112

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Cygnus X-1 said:
It has a more effective, responsive audience toward third party games, in Japan.
Typical consumers don't look at the publisher before buying. This is true in Japan, too.

Cygnus X-1 said:
But again, if FFIII, for example would have come out on PSP as well, for example, I would not bet on an underperforming in comparison.
That's good. Better to save your money than throw it away. DS was selling out every week in 2006 and a new color was launched with FFIII. No Crisis Core meant that the only previous PSP FF was Itadaki Street. A simultaneous launch might've helped ease the sellouts FFIII had for several weeks on DS, but it wouldn't have made the PSP version sell more. See Monorojo's thinking of how DS sellouts increased PSP sales.

Cygnus X-1 said:
The point is that, in order to sell well on DS, a third party game has to be popular, whereas on PSP, even smaller, less known third party games can succeed.
So what level of "success" did unknown PSP games get to that unknown DS games didn't reach, exactly?

Cygnus X-1 said:
Of course this is a tendency, not a rule. And it is valid more in last 2 years. Exceptions, like the games of Level 5 can be found.
This reads like the "3rd party games don't sell on Wii" rules.

Music games don't count.
Big franchises don't count.
Sequels don't count.

Cygnus X-1 said:
But Monster Hunter and clones games generally sold better on PSP then on DS (even during DS's peak somehow this was true),
Fixed.

Cygnus X-1 said:
The decision to not develop games on Wii has anyway its reasons.
Somewhat stupid, short-sighted ones, but, yes, there are reasons.

Cygnus X-1 said:
Yeah, but I never believed too much in the "legendary idiocy" of third parties. What they do has a reason after all.
Yes. Somewhat stupid, short-sighted ones.



Anyways, I came back to the thread to post a random thought before getting sidetracked. What are the chances that Nintendo is trying to boost third-party Wii game output by making it a similar development level between 3DS and Wii? :lol

Now, if they could just figure out a way to convert the shader libraries in 3DS to TEVs ...
 

Chris1964

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Cygnus X-1 said:
Well, to make it short, I just had the impression that after Monster Hunter Portable, third party games generally found more success of PSP then DS, excluding Level 5- and Dragon Quest games. This would explain why PSP is getting more and more support since more or less 2 years.
Is this impression wrong after all?
What do you mean saying that third party games generally found more success of PSP then DS? If we take out the big hits (Monster Hunter, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Kingdom Hearts) the only games that have done big numbers are Monster Hunter clones. Bandai has invested a lot on PSP but unfortunately for them Japan alone isn't enough to balance the almost zero sales in the west. PSP is getting more support at specific genres.
 
Cygnus X-1 said:
Well, to make it short, I just had the impression that after Monster Hunter Portable, third party games generally found more success of PSP then DS, excluding Level 5- and Dragon Quest games. This would explain why PSP is getting more and more support since more or less 2 years.
Is this impression wrong after all?
I used Garaph to make this list and it's months out of date softwarewise so this isn't perfect, but starting at the beginning of 2008 and going through early 2010, looking at the top DS and PSP games which are NOT Nintendo, Sony, Level 5, Dragon Quest, or Monster Hunter:

PSP Dissidia: Final Fantasy
PSP Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep
DS Taiko Drum Master 2
PSP Phantasy Star Portable
PSP God Eater
DS Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days
DS Little Magician's Magic Adventure
DS Chrono Trigger
PSP Shin Sangoku Musou: Multi Raid
PSP Mobile Suit Gundam: Gundam vs. Gundam NEXT PLUS
 

Chris1964

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JoshuaJSlone said:
I used Garaph to make this list and it's months out of date softwarewise so this isn't perfect, but starting at the beginning of 2008 and going through early 2010, looking at the top DS and PSP games which are NOT Nintendo, Sony, Level 5, Dragon Quest, or Monster Hunter
Nothing will change if you include Sony since they are completely irrelevant on PSP.