Media Create Sales: Mar 22-28, 2010

TreasureHunterG said:
Maybe you're right, but that's not my point when I said that. If GOW3 were made by a big japanese company (that's why I mentioned Konami, Sega or Capcom), unmodified and exactly the way it is, it would be a major seller there. I don't know why they behave like this because, IMO, GOW3 has a very japanese style friendly gameplay.
But... how? Capcom published the other games and they did nothing. If you're not changing the content at all, what are you changing? Putting a bigger logo on the box that says "Not just published but also DEVELOPED by Capcom."
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
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JoshuaJSlone said:
But... how? Capcom published the other games and they did nothing. If you're not changing the content at all, what are you changing? Putting a bigger logo on the box that says "Not just published but also DEVELOPED by Capcom."
It's amazing the dissonance required to both a) think so lowly of Japanese people that they won't buy American made games and b) think so highly of Japanese people that they're all super savvy consumers who can tell the difference between a game published by a publisher and a game developed by a publisher without any kind of external marketing.

If what he's saying is that "a Japanese-made game that's exactly the same but received more of a push and marketing because it was near and dear to the company would do better", that's true, but it's also tautological, and it's stupid anyway because a Japanese dev house wouldn't make God of War 3 as-is :p
 

DR2K

Doesn't buy fighting games to actually play them
Jun 6, 2009
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TreasureHunterG said:
Proof? Tell me then how many western made games were huge sellers on Japan? Quite a few huh?

On the other hand I can name thousands of japanese games being huge sellers here on the west.
The Japanese have a pretty particular taste where as western taste is a little more diversified. Regardless plenty of western based games have done well in Japan, such as GTA, CoD, Halo, etc. . .
 

duckroll

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TreasureHunterG said:
Proof? Tell me then how many western made games were huge sellers on Japan? Quite a few huh?

On the other hand I can name thousands of japanese games being huge sellers here on the west.
What does this have to do with God of War being a huge seller in Japan if the game is exactly the same but developed by a Japanese developer instead? :lol
 
Oct 20, 2004
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DR2K said:
The Japanese have a pretty particular taste where as western taste is a little more diversified. Regardless plenty of western based games have done well in Japan, such as GTA, CoD, Halo, etc. . .
If I remember correctly, all PS2 GTAs barely passed the 400k mark (correct me if I'm wrong). GTAIV PS3 somewhere 300k mark. Quite low if you put next to the western marks. Halo? 100k (the average sale there) is nothing next to what sold here. PS3 versions of COD4 and MW2 sold somewhere near 200-250k, once again way below from the western numbers. It's a contrast to what happen here. Japan's biggest sellers sometimes sells more here than there. I can't really imagine GTA, CoD or Halo outselling the west's sales on japanese lands.
 

Dapperk

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DMPrince said:
i wouldn't know. I just wanted to see his list of the thousands of Japanese games that were huge sellers in the west.
I'm guessing he was exaggerating with the thousands number, but there are certainly no shortage of Japanese games that have done well in the West.
 

C.T.

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TreasureHunterG said:
If I remember correctly, all PS2 GTAs barely passed the 400k mark (correct me if I'm wrong). GTAIV PS3 somewhere 300k mark. Quite low if you put next to the western marks. Halo? 100k (the average sale there) is nothing next to what sold here. PS3 versions of COD4 and MW2 sold somewhere near 200-250k, once again way below from the western numbers. It's a contrast to what happen here. Japan's biggest sellers sometimes sells more here than there. I can't really imagine GTA, CoD or Halo outselling the west's sales on japanese lands.
You know there's a "small" install base difference? Western games are getting more popular in japan. Could be because of better localisation ( a big problem in the past) or because they open up to western concepts. Still this xenophobia BS some keep on talking about get on my nerves.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
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TreasureHunterG said:
Proof? Tell me then how many western made games were huge sellers on Japan? Quite a few huh?

On the other hand I can name thousands of japanese games being huge sellers here on the west.
I'm sure that many from these thousands games come from big Japanese developers.

Here are some western made games

[SFC] Donkey Kong Country (Nintendo) - / 3.000.000
[SFC] Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy Kong's Quest (Nintendo) - 254.708 / 1.534.793
[SFC] Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble (Nintendo) - 130.630 / 1.096.924
[N64] Donkey Kong 64 (Nintendo) - 162.262 / 848.375

[PS1] Crash Bandicoot (SCE) - 57.393 / 663.972
[PS1] Crash Bandicoot (Playstation the Best) (SCE) - 4.835 / 29.185
[PS1] Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back (SCE) - 172.253 / 894.335
[PS1] Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back (Playstation the Best) (SCE) - 5.690 / 205.353
[PS1] Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped (SCE) - 294.718 / 917.104

EDIT: Can a mod fix the thread title? It's Media Create Sales: Mar 22-28, 2010
 

duckroll

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The first Ratchet also sold over 500k in Japan. GTA:VC and GTA:SA sold over 400k each.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
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[PS2] Ratchet & Clank (SCE) - 49.733 / 562.658

[PS2] Grand Theft Auto III (Capcom) - 122.899 / 358.917
[PS2] Grand Theft Auto III (CapKore) (Capcom) - / 96.538
[PS2] Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (Capcom) - 223.933 / 410.165
[PS2] Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (CapKore) (Capcom) - 4.010 / 191.280
[PS2] Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (Capcom) - 209.974 / 412.100
[PS2] Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (Best Price!) (Capcom) - / 47.592
[PS2] Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (Best Price! Reprint) (Capcom) - / 18.152

Edit: Added budget re-releases
 

Flachmatuch

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TreasureHunterG said:
Maybe you're right, but that's not my point when I said that. If GOW3 were made by a big japanese company (that's why I mentioned Konami, Sega or Capcom), unmodified and exactly the way it is, it would be a major seller there. I don't know why they behave like this because, IMO, GOW3 has a very japanese style friendly gameplay.
Nope, GoW games are nowhere close to Japanese brawlers. I'm not sure that that's the reason for people not buying them there, but GoW's gameplay is very much Western oriented and quite different from NG's or DMC's or Bayonetta's. I'm saying this because I love NG/DMC/Bayonetta but can't be bothered with GoW, exactly because of its gameplay. Also, imo unless you have actual proof for what you're saying and not just basing stuff off superficial impressions, you shouldn't say it, as it pretty much amounts to an accusation of xenophobia. It might be true but you should try to actually prove it with numbers.
 

duckroll

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I think another factor we have to look at honestly is that 3D action games have never been really that hot in Japan. The original Devil May Cry sold 554k - the most in the series to date, and that's still a far cry from stuff like Resident Evil and Onimusha back then, both million sellers. No Ninja Gaiden game on Xbox, 360 or PS3 have sold even 100k in Japan. Bayonetta is barely at 300k combined. God Hand sold 58k in Japan. Mad World bombed super hard.

In general, the 3D action brawler market just isn't that big in Japan at all, and therefore there is no reason to think that if a Japanese developer had made God of War, in exactly the same way, that it would be a huge seller in Japan. I think the evidence is clear, and that this idea that God of War not doing well is solely because it is a western game, is incorrect and misguided.

:)
 

Sage00

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Flachmatuch said:
Nope, GoW games are nowhere close to Japanese brawlers. I'm not sure that that's the reason for people not buying them there, but GoW's gameplay is very much Western oriented and quite different from NG's or DMC's or Bayonetta's. I'm saying this because I love NG/DMC/Bayonetta but can't be bothered with GoW, exactly because of its gameplay. Also, imo unless you have actual proof for what you're saying and not just basing stuff off superficial impressions, you shouldn't say it, as it pretty much amounts to an accusation of xenophobia. It might be true but you should try to actually prove it with numbers.
Saying the gameplay in God of War is "western oriented" is equally stupid..

Stumpokapow hit the nail on the head earlier. It's the same situation as a foreign movie(whether British, Australian or non-English language) in America. Sure, few succeed relative to the massive local industry that is Hollywood(hint hint), and you could say "well, if this movie was made with the exact same plot but by Hollywood it would succeed". And they are, and they do. But is it ever the same?

Clearly the only solution is to have Hideki Kamiya remake God of War.
 
Oct 20, 2004
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Flachmatuch said:
Nope, GoW games are nowhere close to Japanese brawlers. I'm not sure that that's the reason for people not buying them there, but GoW's gameplay is very much Western oriented and quite different from NG's or DMC's or Bayonetta's. I'm saying this because I love NG/DMC/Bayonetta but can't be bothered with GoW, exactly because of its gameplay. Also, imo unless you have actual proof for what you're saying and not just basing stuff off superficial impressions, you shouldn't say it, as it pretty much amounts to an accusation of xenophobia. It might be true but you should try to actually prove it with numbers.
Let me get this straight to you: I'm not trying to expose anyone as xenophobic, so stop putting words in my mouth. It's not what I mean and if I let this impression to you or anyone else, I'm sorry.

It's a fact that western games don't sell as well the japanese games, but if you think I'm saying japanese gamers are xenophobic because of that... I'm sorry, but you miss the point completely.

I'm just angry that a game like GOW3 is getting overlooked there, considering it's quality and what sold here on west, that's all.

I don't remember associating NG/DMC/Bayonetta to GoW anywhere, I'm just wondering why you did it...
 

wizword

Banned
Oct 1, 2009
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God of war is based on greek mythology. It is a western based themed game. Ninja Gaiden which doesn't really sell all that much either is japanese culture. More people in japan probably want to play a game that involves ninjas than greek mythology. Do we have a bias because we don't buy jrpgs because they don't resemble anything in our culture. How is this anything different?
 

Kipe

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TreasureHunterG said:
Let me get this straight to you: I'm not trying to expose anyone as xenophobic, so stop putting words in my mouth. It's not what I mean and if I let this impression to you or anyone else, I'm sorry.

It's a fact that western games don't sell as well the japanese games, but if you think I'm saying japanese gamers are xenophobic because of that... I'm sorry, but you miss the point completely.

I'm just angry that a game like GOW3 is getting overlooked there, considering it's quality and what sold here on west, that's all.

I don't remember associating NG/DMC/Bayonetta to GoW anywhere, I'm just wondering why you did it...
This is NeoGAF Media Create sales thread. If your favorite games are consistent top sellers here then there is something wrong with you.
 

jett

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Jun 6, 2004
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wizword said:
God of war is based on greek mythology. It is a western based themed game. Ninja Gaiden which doesn't really sell all that much either is japanese culture. More people in japan probably want to play a game that involves ninjas than greek mythology. Do we have a bias because we don't buy jrpgs because they don't resemble anything in our culture. How is this anything different?
Well maybe another reason people don't buy jrpgs is because most of them are garbage.
 

seattle6418

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duckroll said:
What does this have to do with God of War being a huge seller in Japan if the game is exactly the same but developed by a Japanese developer instead? :lol
You know in my three years of GAF i know this is a huge can of worms, but the guy has a point.

I know people don't want to believe japanese gamers won't buy just because it's not japanese, but it's mind boggling.

Ratchet and GTA numbers are OK, but way less compared to how they do in NA and Europe. I would say mild sucess. Not a hit like they were in other regions. Crash Bandicoot for PSX remains as the only western title that performed equally in three regions (Japan, NA and Europe).

I don't have any scientific proof on this, but the evidence sure makes us wonder.

Regardless of merit, there is not reasonable explanation for a game like Fifa flopping in Japan, for God of War not selling on par or better than Devil May Cry, for Forza selling like shit while GT is a huge hit.

We can discuss the merits of story driven games like God of War, but when we compare simulators (sports games, racing games) it just doesn't make any sense.

Maybe "japanese gamers won't buy western games" is not the correct answer, but "make a western game that caters to the japanese crowd that it will sell" is also NOT the answer, at least that what history tells us.

Unless Crash Bandicoot was the only western game ever produced to cater to the japanese gaming market.
 
Oct 20, 2004
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duckroll said:
The original Devil May Cry sold 554k - the most in the series to date, and that's still a far cry from stuff like Resident Evil and Onimusha back then, both million sellers. No Ninja Gaiden game on Xbox, 360 or PS3 have sold even 100k in Japan. Bayonetta is barely at 300k combined. God Hand sold 58k in Japan. Mad World bombed super hard.
If you take a look at the sales from all these games you mentioned, you'll notice they sold pretty much the same on western lands, not changing so radically from japanese numbers. Unlike GoW which sales differs completely from each region.
 

Zen

Banned
Jun 24, 2005
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Japanese gamers not buying Western games is pretty much fact and has been for years, with a handful of exceptions. It boggles my mind that people are even trying to argue against it by citing said handful. That said, the situation is starting to improve in Japan, but to say that there hasn't generally been a predisposition against western and European game output, traditionally, is crazy talk. It wasn't so long ago that foreign games weren't put in the front of stores in some places.

Although the Japanese market is opening up these days.

If God of War was exactly how it is, but was developed in Japan, it's not crazy to say it probably would sell better; that's the truth really. Though I don't know if it would ever be as big in Japan as it is elsewhere, mostly because it's so 'American' in everything it does (that's a crappy way of putting it).
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
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Ookami-kun said:
...why are they removing it? ESRB? :(
No, you misunderstand; the Japanese version has plenty of gore, the overseas version is getting even more. :p
 

duckroll

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TreasureHunterG said:
If you take a look at the sales from all these games you mentioned, you'll notice they sold pretty much the same on western lands, not changing so radically from japanese numbers. Unlike GoW which sales differs completely from each region.
And is that really because it's a good action brawler? Or because it is a very high production action game dealing with Greek mythology - something which is very popular in the West. How many Japanese developed games which used Greek mythology has the core story structure have sold extremely well in Japan?

The same can be said of Onimusha. The first two each sold a million in Japan. It sold much less in the US. Is that because US gamers don't like Japanese games now? Or is it simply because a game being deeply rooted in Japanese mythology is less appealing to western gamers?
 
Jun 6, 2004
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Zen said:
Japanese gamers not buying Western games is pretty much fact and has been for years, with a handful of exceptions. It boggles my mind that people are even trying to argue against it by citing said handful. That said, the situation is starting to improve in Japan, but to say that there hasn't generally been a predisposition against western and European game output, traditionally, is crazy talk. It wasn't so long ago that foreign games weren't put in the front of stores in some places.

Although the Japanese market is opening up these days.

If God of War was exactly how it is, but was developed in Japan, it's not crazy to say it probably would sell better; that's the truth really. Though I don't know if it would ever be as big in Japan as it is elsewhere, mostly because it's so 'American' in everything it does (that's a crappy way of putting it).
that's the thing though, ig God of War was developed in japan, it wouldn't be anything like the God of War we know, and probably be more like Shadow of Rome...
 

duckroll

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The Faceless Master said:
that's the thing though, ig God of War was developed in japan, it wouldn't be anything like the God of War we know, and probably be more like Shadow of Rome...
No! How dare you suggest that! If the game was EXACTLY the same, but has "developed by Capcom" on the cover, it would sell 500k instantly at the very least! That's how it is!!!
 

Flachmatuch

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Dec 22, 2005
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Sage00 said:
Saying the gameplay in God of War is "western oriented" is equally stupid..
Yeah, it was a bad choice of words, but there are pretty obvious design philosophy differences between GoW and, say, DMC, and there is a definite "western" character to the first game, compared to the second. I don't know, I think the differences are quite obvious.

Stumpokapow hit the nail on the head earlier. It's the same situation as a foreign movie(whether British, Australian or non-English language) in America. Sure, few succeed relative to the massive local industry that is Hollywood(hint hint), and you could say "well, if this movie was made with the exact same plot but by Hollywood it would succeed". And they are, and they do. But is it ever the same?
Yeah, but I wasn't even talking about this. I just dislike it when people come in, say stuff like "Japanese people don't buy Western games, even thought they're awesome and the only difference is the publisher/developer's location". Of course it's not the only difference.

Clearly the only solution is to have Hideki Kamiya remake God of War.
I disagree, he shouldn't waste his time on other people's games :)

TreasureHunterG said:
Let me get this straight to you: I'm not trying to expose anyone as xenophobic, so stop putting words in my mouth. It's not what I mean and if I let this impression to you or anyone else, I'm sorry.
It can easily be understood that way though, that was my point. I didn't mean you accused people of xenophobia, but it can be taken that way, and this particular argument is actually brought up quite often for this exact reason. It's better not to say stuff like this at all if you can't support it with numbers.

Seriously: you did say that for the Japanese it's more important where the game's made than how it plays; in fact, you said that simply changing the developer's name to a Japanese company's name would make the game sell a lot better:

If GOW3 were made by a big japanese company (that's why I mentioned Konami, Sega or Capcom), unmodified and exactly the way it is, it would be a major seller there.
This might not amount to an accusation of xenophobia or whatever, but it's pretty fucking close. Just because you didn't say the word and say that you didn't mean to say this doesn't mean it's not the most obvious way to interpret what you did say. Seriously.

It's a fact that western games don't sell as well the japanese games, but if you think I'm saying japanese gamers are xenophobic because of that... I'm sorry, but you miss the point completely.
Thing is, this exact same argument does get brought up in the "japanese are xenophobic" sense all the time, hence if you bring it up, you should be able to support it with numbers, which you didn't do.

I'm just angry that a game like GOW3 is getting overlooked there, considering it's quality and what sold here on west, that's all.
It can be a difference in taste though. I can't find what I like in these games in GoW games at all, even though I like brawlers a lot. The point is that it is *not* a Japanese style game though. I think anyone who likes these kinds of games can easily tell the difference between a Western and a Japanese type brawler (if this is a good word for the genre).

I don't remember associating NG/DMC/Bayonetta to GoW anywhere, I'm just wondering why you did it...
I just brought them up as a comparison, as they're Japanese games in the same genre, and my point is that the game design and gameplay principles behind them are pretty different, despite being in the exact same genre. You did say that GoW had very Japanese-friendly gameplay, and I thought you were comparing it to, you know, Japanese games with similar gameplay, so I thought these were the games you were comparing GoW with when you said this. Why else would you say it had "Japanese-friendly gameplay" if you're not comparing it to Japanese games with similar mechanisms?
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
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If people are trying to square away why Westerners will play Japanese-style games and Japanese people don't play Western-style games, wouldn't the better explanation be that the Japanese have narrow taste rather than that they are hyper-educated xenophobes?

I don't think "We buy Final Fantasy, why don't they buy God of War?" proves anything except that North Americans have a wider taste in gaming than the Japanese, not anything about xenophobia or acceptance.

Zen said:
Japanese gamers not buying Western games is pretty much fact and has been for years, with a handful of exceptions. It boggles my mind that people are even trying to argue against it by citing said handful. That said, the situation is starting to improve in Japan, but to say that there hasn't generally been a predisposition against western and European game output, traditionally, is crazy talk. It wasn't so long ago that foreign games weren't put in the front of stores in some places.

Although the Japanese market is opening up these days.

If God of War was exactly how it is, but was developed in Japan, it's not crazy to say it probably would sell better; that's the truth really. Though I don't know if it would ever be as big in Japan as it is elsewhere, mostly because it's so 'American' in everything it does (that's a crappy way of putting it).
It seems pretty untenable to me.

Okay, fine, I accept the premise that the Japanese won't buy western games. Your further premise is that it isn't the style of the game, the characters, the gameplay types, etc; it's simply that they're western. It's not the language, because plenty of games get proper Japanese localizations. It's not the ethnicity of the characters, because in many cases we're not even talking about human characters. It's also not the marketing or promotion, we've established.

It's strictly the fact that they're made by a Western company. Fine.

How the hell are millions of Japanese consumers so educated that they can look at a product that says "Produced by Sony, published by Capcom" (two Japanese companies) and use their highly refined Western senses to ignore the product? And that the exact same product*, made by a Japanese division of the exact same company, published by the exact same company, promoted the exact same way, would do better?

The only way you can square this difference is if you assume that either a) The Japanese are all hyper-intelligent super-savants who have GAF-level knowledgebases about every game or b) There actually are factors in the content and the promotion of the game that make a difference and the entire line of argument is unnecessary.

Assuming you agree with A and feel that the Japanese are incredibly savvy, incredibly discriminating, 24-7 live breathe video game types, how does that explain that in every other regard, their purchasing habits seem to reflect the comparatively uneducated American purchaser? Critical darlings that are not promoted bomb, heavily marketed games do well even if they're poorly received, etc.

The Faceless Master said:
that's the thing though, ig God of War was developed in japan, it wouldn't be anything like the God of War we know, and probably be more like Shadow of Rome...
If people were willing to accept that, they could rely on western games failing due to content rather than due to being created by a westerner, and this whole line of discussion wouldn't be happening.
 

Equus Bellator Apex

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duckroll said:
And is that really because it's a good action brawler? Or because it is a very high production action game dealing with Greek mythology - something which is very popular in the West. How many Japanese developed games which used Greek mythology has the core story structure have sold extremely well in Japan?

The same can be said of Onimusha. The first two each sold a million in Japan. It sold much less in the US. Is that because US gamers don't like Japanese games now? Or is it simply because a game being deeply rooted in Japanese mythology is less appealing to western gamers?
That reminds me, when are we going to get a new Onimusha game?
 
Oct 20, 2004
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duckroll said:
And is that really because it's a good action brawler? Or because it is a very high production action game dealing with Greek mythology - something which is very popular in the West. How many Japanese developed games which used Greek mythology has the core story structure have sold extremely well in Japan?

The same can be said of Onimusha. The first two each sold a million in Japan. It sold much less in the US. Is that because US gamers don't like Japanese games now? Or is it simply because a game being deeply rooted in Japanese mythology is less appealing to western gamers?
Considering the fact that Saint Seiya (Knights of the Zodiac) was a very successful and influent anime franchise based on the greek mythology, I don't think pointing that as the reason for GoW's sales is valid. Greek mythology has some popularity in Japan too. Not on a western scale, for obvious cultural reasons, but it does.
 
duckroll said:
And is that really because it's a good action brawler? Or because it is a very high production action game dealing with Greek mythology - something which is very popular in the West. How many Japanese developed games which used Greek mythology has the core story structure have sold extremely well in Japan?
Check this, yo:

If only this game's publisher wasn't so obscure.


Going muuuuuuch further back I guess Kid Icarus is an example of a million-seller with Greek mythology roots.
 

duckroll

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TreasureHunterG said:
Considering the fact that Saint Seiya (Knights of the Zodiac) was a very successful and influent anime franchise based on the greek mythology, I don't think pointing that as the reason for GoW's sales is valid. Greek mythology has some popularity in Japan too. Not on a western scale, for obvious cultural reasons, but it does.
If you think that Saint Seiya is a good example of Greek mythology in the same way as what I pointed out, then I have nothing more to add. :lol
 

Flachmatuch

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Dec 22, 2005
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seattle6418 said:
Regardless of merit, there is not reasonable explanation for a game like Fifa flopping in Japan, for God of War not selling on par or better than Devil May Cry, for Forza selling like shit while GT is a huge hit.
Don't know about FIFA, but GoW and DMC are very different games, and Forza is not doing as well as GT even in the West, afaik. You might be right overall, but at least 2 of these examples are crap.

Anyway, the point is that I can easily imagine a kind of taste that can differentiate between "Japanese style" and "Western style" games and has a preference for one of them, without even knowing the actual country of origin of the game. There really are (imo quite obvious) substantial differences between Japanese and Western games in loads and loads of aspects, and it's not exactly difficult to imagine that they could make a difference for people.
 
Dec 18, 2004
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Zen said:
If God of War was exactly how it is, but was developed in Japan, it's not crazy to say it probably would sell better; that's the truth really. Though I don't know if it would ever be as big in Japan as it is elsewhere, mostly because it's so 'American' in everything it does (that's a crappy way of putting it).

It also wouldn't have been Z-rated which would change things up quite a bit. Game store owner's blogs were quite unhappy about the whole Z-rating thing.

3 things in this thread can be blamed on CERO

The gore removal in Hokuto and why silent hill 5 wasn't released in Japan)

PS. Japanese developers would have made Kratos cuter.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
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seattle6418 said:
You know in my three years of GAF i know this is a huge can of worms, but the guy has a point.

I know people don't want to believe japanese gamers won't buy just because it's not japanese, but it's mind boggling.

Ratchet and GTA numbers are OK, but way less compared to how they do in NA and Europe. I would say mild sucess. Not a hit like they were in other regions. Crash Bandicoot for PSX remains as the only western title that performed equally in three regions (Japan, NA and Europe).

I don't have any scientific proof on this, but the evidence sure makes us wonder.

Regardless of merit, there is not reasonable explanation for a game like Fifa flopping in Japan, for God of War not selling on par or better than Devil May Cry, for Forza selling like shit while GT is a huge hit.

We can discuss the merits of story driven games like God of War, but when we compare simulators (sports games, racing games) it just doesn't make any sense.

Maybe "japanese gamers won't buy western games" is not the correct answer, but "make a western game that caters to the japanese crowd that it will sell" is also NOT the answer, at least that what history tells us.

Unless Crash Bandicoot was the only western game ever produced to cater to the japanese gaming market.
There are way more western developed games than you think that have performed well in Japan.

[N64] Banjo-Kazooie (Nintendo) - 43.396 / 405.944

[PS1] FIFA: Road to World Cup '98 (Square EA) - 120.429 / 455.759

[PS2] Medal of Honor: Frontline (Square EA) - 27.542 / 171.641

[PS3] Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Activision) - 20.692 / 113.957
[PS3] Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Legendary Hits) (Activision) - 16.424 / 122.019
[360] Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Activision) - 25.901 / 54.752
[360] Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Platinum Collection) (Activision) - 9.036 / 27.191
[NDS] Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Activision) - 3.600 / 19.395

[PS3] Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (Square Enix) - 117.391 / 222.500
[360] Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (Square Enix) - 60.517 / 72.858

"Make a western game that caters to the japanese crowd that it will sell" is the correct answer. The japanese crowd is ready to accept a western game as Call of Duty 5 shows but will reject the sequels if the original doesn't appeal to it.
 

Flachmatuch

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TBH I just can't believe that people can't recognise the differences in play style and philosophy between Japanese and Western developed games, and that these differences might lead to differences in sales too. It might not be easy to put them into words, but they're not exactly hidden or subtle.
 

jett

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Jun 6, 2004
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duckroll said:
If you think that Saint Seiya is a good example of Greek mythology in the same way as what I pointed out, then I have nothing more to add. :lol
Don't you be hatin' on Saint SEIYAAAAAAA

It taught me everything I know about greek mythology!

not really
 

onken

Member
Dec 15, 2008
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some place.. far away. yes, that will do
seattle6418 said:
Regardless of merit, there is not reasonable explanation for a game like Fifa flopping in Japan, for God of War not selling on par or better than Devil May Cry, for Forza selling like shit while GT is a huge hit.

.
Uh, Fifa doesn't have the licences for all the Japanese players and clubs like WE does, so obviously it's going to do nowhere near as well.

Forza is a 360 exclusive, so you can just count that out as a big seller right off the bat. As it happens, Forza 2 didn't actually do that badly (for a 360 game).

Sorry you're going to have to reach harder than that.
 
Oct 20, 2004
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Flachmatuch said:
It can easily be understood that way though, that was my point. I didn't mean you accused people of xenophobia, but it can be taken that way, and this particular argument is actually brought up quite often for this exact reason. It's better not to say stuff like this at all if you can't support it with numbers.
And you better not accuse people without proof.

You told me to not base myself on superficial impressions and yet you're doing exact the same thing and worse. You're calling me xenophobic based on suppositions and not facts. I guess it's you who shouldn't say stuff like that without evidence because accusations like that can hit someone real hard.
 

Sage00

Once And Future Member
Oct 29, 2006
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Japan
Flachmatuch said:
TBH I just can't believe that people can't recognise the differences in play style and philosophy between Japanese and Western developed games, and that these differences might lead to differences in sales too. It might not be easy to put them into words, but they're not exactly hidden or subtle.
There's such a large amount of games produced by each side that this argument should slide into relevance, really. Certain western developers have picked up plenty of Japanese influence and vice versa.

We can keep looking into these inane arguments of why RE4 sold in Japan but Dead Space didn't and picking apart tiny details of art, gameplay, music which end up collapsing when the argument is applied to any other game.

Or we can just accept that the Japanese development cycle over the past 20 years has resulted in a cultivated relationship with magazine publications offering weekly interviews and updates; retailers negotiating exact shipments which, unlike the west, they cannot return so have to know a good deal about what they're getting; and publishers sticking to the rhetoric "if you can't succeed at home you can't succeed anywhere", along with perhaps a bit of personal pride stake in being able to see their product go big (or bomb) around them; and a general disinterest among western publishers who do not see it as a need to succeed in Japan, unlike the reverse, instead choosing to license their game to Japanese Atlus USA-style outfits with next-to-no money, altogether culminating in a situation where by the time the Japanese consumer goes to shop to buy a game, they have no choice but to buy a Japanese game.

Or, you know, we can just go with racism and call it a day as usual.
 

Flachmatuch

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TreasureHunterG said:
And you better not accuse people without proof.

You told me to not base myself on superficial impressions and yet you're doing exact the same thing and worse. You're calling me xenophobic based on suppositions and not facts. I guess it's you who shouldn't say stuff like that without evidence because accusations like that can hit someone real hard.
First, you don't even know what you're talking about (I'm not calling you xenophobic, I'm saying that what you said implies that you might think Japanese are xenophobic).

What I said that what you wrote can very easily be (and usually is) interpreted in such a way, especially this:

If GOW3 were made by a big japanese company (that's why I mentioned Konami, Sega or Capcom), unmodified and exactly the way it is, it would be a major seller there.
Sorry, but this really is very close to an accusation of xenophobia, nationalism or whatever. I'm not accusing you without proof (mainly because I never accused you), I'm looking at what you actually said.
 

duckroll

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TreasureHunterG said:
And you better not accuse people without proof.

You told me to not base myself on superficial impressions and yet you're doing exact the same thing and worse. You're calling me xenophobic based on suppositions and not facts. I guess it's you who shouldn't say stuff like that without evidence because accusations like that can hit someone real hard.
If the claim that an entire country dislikes buying games developed by western developers, and would gladly buy a game which is in your own words identical in every way but developed by a big Japanese developer is not an accusation of xenophobia, then I would love for you to explain what you actually meant. Come on, try.