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Media Create Sales: November 15-21

Takao

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Grimmy said:
Nope. Congrats once again to PSP Go owners! :lol
Yikes. What is Sony doing? Would've been a good chance to make 33% off a lot of flustered MH fiends who want the new game, who don't want to wait in line to find out it's sold out.
 

Grimmy

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cvxfreak said:
Monster Hunter Portable 3rd was easily the biggest morning game launch ever. Even DQIX doesn't quite compare. Pokemon Black and White were huge, but that was a staggered launch with customers in and out of shops the entire day. Given the older MH fanbase, it make sense for it to have a big morning. The issue now is that so many stores are selling out, so the buzz should be done by this afternoon. Hopefully Capcom has daily shipments, because due to the early launch, this is their chance to steal the debut record from Pokemon BW and FFVIII.

By the way, if Amazon JP could have fulfilled 2 million pre-orders, then no one would be out in line right now. But they can't, so it's a moot point. :p
Thanks for the field report - will be interesting to see how fast Capcom can restock the shipments.
 

duckroll

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mehdi_san said:
I am NOT French :((((
See, that's what happens when people make statements and comments without doing any research into the subject whatsoever! :lol
 
duckroll said:
See, that's what happens when people make statements and comments without doing any research into the subject whatsoever! :lol
Yeah sorry if I came out as ignorant in my comment. Not to drag too long on this, but I remember hearing about the expression "sakura" in last week's WAHP podcast. They said it's what they use in Japanese to describe people who wait in line for big product launches just as a hobby. I know not everyone is a sakura, it's just a minority, but I was still very surprised to hear that they are enough people like that to warrant the creation of a name for them!
Also, I asked a Japanese student here at the uni why do Japanese seem to enjoy lining up for launches, and he said it's because most Japanese people are "miha". He told me that someone who's a "miha" is someone who would suddenly become a huge fan of something just because he heard it's very popular now. Once again, you're gonna tell me it's the same thing in other countries, people get hyped because of their friends (or because of GAF), but it's funny that my friend says (even jokingly) that all Japanese people are "miha". So maybe some of the people lining up for the game don't have the choice because they were not interested in it yet a few weeks ago, when you could still preorder the game. They just decided they wanted it when they heard about through their friends or ads, so now they have to line up on day one to get it.
 

cvxfreak

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Miha sounds similar to what we call "bandwagoners" in the U.S. It's part of the intent of the publishers, because it's basically people paying to be walking advertisements for their products. I don't think it's unique to Japan at all. If anything, people in Japan could set their example to other places because no one will get trampled like Walmart on Black Friday 2008.

Sakura is an interesting term, too, but clearly there were only Monster Hunter or gaming fans in line here. Or perhaps scalpers.
 
cvxfreak said:
Miha sounds similar to what we call "bandwagoners" in the U.S. It's part of the intent of the publishers, because it's basically people paying to be walking advertisements for their products. I don't think it's unique to Japan at all. If anything, people in Japan could set their example to other places because no one will get trampled like Walmart on Black Friday 2008.

Sakura is an interesting term, too, but clearly there were only Monster Hunter or gaming fans in line here. Or perhaps scalpers.
But when you know that review scores in Japan have no meaning at all, and that articles in most magazines are written by the publishers themselves and not journalists, don't you think in the end it shows that the game industry in Japan is really dependent on these bandwagoners? It's very difficult to find a real critical review of any product, and even if there were some, maybe it wouldn't even matter because the popularity is what matters the most?
 

duckroll

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mehdi_san said:
But when you know that review scores in Japan have no meaning at all, and that articles in most magazines are written by the publishers themselves and not journalists, don't you think in the end it shows that the game industry in Japan is really dependent on these bandwagoners? It's very difficult to find a real critical review of any product, and even if there were some, maybe it wouldn't even matter because the popularity is what matters the most?
Again, WHY IS THIS UNIQUE TO JAPAN. You keep describing completely general things which apply anywhere in the world, and then sugarcoat it with "Japan" as if it's a unique thing to the country. What's wrong with you?
 
duckroll said:
Again, WHY IS THIS UNIQUE TO JAPAN. You keep describing completely general things which apply anywhere in the world, and then sugarcoat it with "Japan" as if it's a unique thing to the country. What's wrong with you?
No need to get angry. And no it's not the same in the west : publishers don't write articles that are published in Edge, Gamepro, not even IGN. And reviews matter in the West. Ex: people still check rottentomatoes before going to the movies.
 

duckroll

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mehdi_san said:
No need to get angry. And no it's not the same in the west : publishers don't write articles that are published in Edge, Gamepro, not even IGN. And reviews matter in the West. Ex: people still check rottentomatoes before going to the movies.
Really?

Let's see if that is true. :lol
 
Jul 14, 2009
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In the west, if you talk enough shit about a shit publisher's shit games then the publishers won't cooperate with your publication anyway. It ultimately creates the same type of environment.
 
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mehdi_san said:
But when you know that review scores in Japan have no meaning at all, and that articles in most magazines are written by the publishers themselves and not journalists, don't you think in the end it shows that the game industry in Japan is really dependent on these bandwagoners? It's very difficult to find a real critical review of any product, and even if there were some, maybe it wouldn't even matter because the popularity is what matters the most?
mehdi_san said:
No need to get angry. And no it's not the same in the west : publishers don't write articles that are published in Edge, Gamepro, not even IGN.
Publishers may as well write reviews from the west. For the most part they can get whatever score they want.

Regardless it's a minority of people who actually use these reviews to buy games.

mehdi_san said:
And reviews matter in the West. Ex: people still check rottentomatoes before going to the movies.
This is total bullshit.
 

duckroll

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I'm pretty sure mehdi_san doesn't even read Japanese gaming magazines or actually know what he's talking about when it comes to editorial content and what people think of the reviews. If he wants to actually go into detail about his vast knowledge about his, he is welcome to. But since he's been ignorant about everything else so far, it's safe to assume he's just being ignorant about this too.
 
duckroll said:
I'm pretty sure mehdi_san doesn't even read Japanese gaming magazines or actually know what he's talking about when it comes to editorial content and what people think of the reviews. If he wants to actually go into detail about his vast knowledge about his, he is welcome to. But since he's been ignorant about everything else so far, it's safe to assume he's just being ignorant about this too.
Oh come on now, I never bragged about my "vast knowledge" (that I know I don't have BTW), I came here in this thread asking some stupid questions because I knew you guys are smart enough to enlighten me. I am just really curious about this, and I thought we could talk about it. Where did this "he wants to actually go into detail about his vast knowledge" come from seriously??
Also I'm not trying to say "this is unique to Japan", but I'm asking why do I feel it's more intensified in Japan than in the West?
 

duckroll

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mehdi_san said:
Also I'm not trying to say "this is unique to Japan", but I'm asking why do I feel it's more intensified in Japan than in the West?
Japan is a smaller country than most western countries, and very densely populated. When you pack a lot of people into a small amount of space, everything is intensified. That's just how it is. That's why if you look at other countries like Hong Kong, South Korea, Singapore, etc, you'll find a lot of very similar behavior in society. It's not cultural or racial, it is simply population density in effect. Many of the most densely populated yet very developed countries in the world are generally located in Asia. So that might be why you feel this way.
 
duckroll said:
Japan is a smaller country than most western countries, and very densely populated. When you pack a lot of people into a small amount of space, everything is intensified. That's just how it is. That's why if you look at other countries like Hong Kong, South Korea, Singapore, etc, you'll find a lot of very similar behavior in society. It's not cultural or racial, it is simply population density in effect. Many of the most densely populated yet very developed countries in the world are generally located in Asia. So that might be why you feel this way.
Well, thank you for this answer, now I'm learning new stuff. I never thought about the population density aspect.

I just thought about another thing just now, people in Japan don't use credit card as much as people in the West. I know when I lived in France, I would never use cash because credit cards were accepted everywhere (fast-foods, supermarkets, subway ticket machine, big stores and small stores), but when I came to Japan I had to start using cash again. Most stores don't take credit cards here, and even Japanese friends told me they don't feel safe using them. I think it's completely illogical, but they told me they feel safer carrying 150,000 yen to the store to buy their new TV than using a credit card. I think this is maybe the reason why people don't want to order their games online, they would rather go to the store even if it means having to line up.
I'm sorry if I'm boring everyone with this, but I really think it's a very interesting subject.
 

duckroll

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mehdi_san said:
Well, thank you for this answer, now I'm learning new stuff. I never thought about the population density aspect.

I just thought about another thing just now, people in Japan don't use credit card as much as people in the West. I know when I lived in France, I would never use cash because credit cards were accepted everywhere (fast-foods, supermarkets, subway ticket machine, big stores and small stores), but when I came to Japan I had to start using cash again. Most stores don't take credit cards here, and even Japanese friends told me they don't feel safe using them. I think it's completely illogical, but they told me they feel safer carrying 150,000 yen to the store to buy their new TV than using a credit card. I think this is maybe the reason why people don't want to order their games online, they would rather go to the store even if it means having to line up.
I'm sorry if I'm boring everyone with this, but I really think it's a very interesting subject.
Yes, Japan is a very cash-driven society. That seems pretty unique to Japan. I have no idea wtf is with that either. It kinda bothered me when I was there too. I'm used to buying stuff with cards, especially when traveling. It was a pretty weird experience to always have to have a good amount of cash in the wallet. Can't explain this one, sorry. :/
 

cvxfreak

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I find there to be a lot of value in buying a game at the shop myself. It's a nice experience being able to look at boxes and displays yourself and being able to walk out of the store with your product. Moreover, it's nice and much better for your health to just get out of the house/apartment/dorm once in awhile and move around. :)

I've finally managed to live a card-oriented lifestyle in Japan. If you get a Mobile Suica (train pass) account on a Japanese keitai, you tie that to your credit card, but most places treat Suica like cash. So it's win-win for me. :lol
 

duckroll

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cvxfreak said:
I find there to be a lot of value in buying a game at the shop myself. It's a nice experience being able to look at boxes and displays yourself and being able to walk out of the store with your product. Moreover, it's nice and much better for your health to just get out of the house/apartment/dorm once in awhile and move around. :)
Maybe you can explain why Japan is so card-adverse. It's starting to bother me too now that I think about it. Damnit he put the thought back in my head! :lol
 
cvxfreak said:
I find there to be a lot of value in buying a game at the shop myself. It's a nice experience being able to look at boxes and displays yourself and being able to walk out of the store with your product. Moreover, it's nice and much better for your health to just get out of the house/apartment/dorm once in awhile and move around. :)

I've finally managed to live a card-oriented lifestyle in Japan. If you get a Mobile Suica (train pass) account on a Japanese keitai, you tie that to your credit card, but most places treat Suica like cash. So it's win-win for me. :lol
Yeah it is kinda fun to go the store and share the excitement with other gamers, I understand that. I would also add one more advantage of lining up at the store compared to ordering online for example: you can get the game before going to work, and play it on the commute to work and back from work, whereas ordering online means waiting to go back home at 6pm to check if the game is in the mailbox. So yeah, in the end I do understand a little bit why people would line up.
 

cvxfreak

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duckroll said:
Maybe you can explain why Japan is so card-adverse. It's starting to bother me too now that I think about it. Damnit he put the thought back in my head! :lol
The thing with JPN credit cards is that in basic form, they're a delayed form of debit. There isn't really a minimum payment system like they have with US cards. You can split your payments up, but telling a clerk you want to make 12 payments on a video game is not very flattering at all. :lol

I think there's also a culture developed around managing finances within the household (remember the DS game that game out??). Cash is again an easier method of finance management and you don't have to get into debt for it, either.

More and more shops are opening up to credit cards, but you generally still can't use a credit card to eat cheap food (unless you do the Suica workaround like I do). 7-11 didn't accept them until a few months ago. I'm pretty sure this is partly in response to the needs of foreign tourists, but of course the minds of Japanese consumers will be slower to adapt.

For all the flack foreigners in Japan get about opening credit cards, somehow I've been lucky. :D
 
cvxfreak said:
For all the flack foreigners in Japan get about opening credit cards, somehow I've been lucky. :D
I tried to get a credit card here 3 times, and was refused every time :( It seemed to me that they won't give a credit to a foreign student, how did you manage to get one? Anyway, I'll get my revenge next year when I start my job, because they will have to accept it then (sponsored by the company:D )
 

cvxfreak

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mehdi_san said:
I tried to get a credit card here 3 times, and was refused every time :( It seemed to me that they won't give a credit to a foreign student, how did you manage to get one? Anyway, I'll get my revenge next year when I start my job, because they will have to accept it then (sponsored by the company:D )
I'm a foreign student as well and have three Japanese credit cards. I guess going after specific student cards is the best approach, because those are inherently tailored to those who may not have proper employment. It's weird how they wanted to know the information of my father living in the U.S. :lol

I'm actually expecting it to be harder to get a CC after you get a job. I'm afraid mine may get taken away after I graduate.
 

Rocksteady33

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Oct 23, 2006
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I understand where mehdi is coming from though. Outside of system launches you really never see any publications posting articles and pictures about launch lines. They happen, obviously, but it not nearly to some insane cultural event like they do in Japan. Outside of major launch areas that tend to have budgets and backing from actual publishers, launch events are a quick in and out procedure, that rarely see under shipment. To me, I feel like some of these reports are unique to Japan, and it's not meant to be offensive or anything like that.

Is it possible Monster Hunter can beat Pokemon despite PSP's much lower userbase?
 

duckroll

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This thread is turning into an awesome discussion about Japanese society, while we wait for Capcom's press release on MHP3's initial shipment. :lol
 

cvxfreak

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duckroll said:
This thread is turning into an awesome discussion about Japanese society, while we wait for Capcom's press release on MHP3's initial shipment. :lol
Speaking of which, WTF is that press release? We had one for Tri days in advance. :lol
 

Ratrat

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mehdi_san said:
Yeah sorry if I came out as ignorant in my comment. Not to drag too long on this, but I remember hearing about the expression "sakura" in last week's WAHP podcast. They said it's what they use in Japanese to describe people who wait in line for big product launches just as a hobby. I know not everyone is a sakura, it's just a minority, but I was still very surprised to hear that they are enough people like that to warrant the creation of a name for them!
Also, I asked a Japanese student here at the uni why do Japanese seem to enjoy lining up for launches, and he said it's because most Japanese people are "miha". He told me that someone who's a "miha" is someone who would suddenly become a huge fan of something just because he heard it's very popular now. Once again, you're gonna tell me it's the same thing in other countries, people get hyped because of their friends (or because of GAF), but it's funny that my friend says (even jokingly) that all Japanese people are "miha". So maybe some of the people lining up for the game don't have the choice because they were not interested in it yet a few weeks ago, when you could still preorder the game. They just decided they wanted it when they heard about through their friends or ads, so now they have to line up on day one to get it.
This is not true is it?

nope, its not.
 
Ratrat said:
This is not true is it?

nope, its not.
Yeah I checked wikipedia, and it seems that the real meaning of sakura is someone who would line up for companies as a part time job. But I'm almost certain someone mentioned in a podcast that some of them don't do it for the money, but for the fame and/or fun (to be on TV, to be interviewed, to get your picture in famitsu and such ...)
 

duckroll

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cvxfreak said:
Speaking of which, WTF is that press release? We had one for Tri days in advance. :lol
They probably expect the shipment numbers to increase significantly this time, instead of staying the same for ages. :D
 

gerg

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On the one hand, getting a credit card was rather difficult for me. As they need a permanent place of residence, I had to do this workaround where some part of the credit card is attached to the mother of the homestay where I'm now staying. However, the difficulty I experienced doesn't seem particularly unreasonable considering my current situation.

On the other hand, I did eventually get a credit card, and I'm an 18 year-old under a Working Holiday visa who's in Tokyo for six months before moving all over the place.
 

onken

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mehdi_san said:
It was completely related to gaming, and more specifically about Japanese gamers lining up for big releases. Also you're not a mod, so don't tell me what to post and where.
Don't get so butthurt, it's just every time this thread gets bumped I click it in anticipation of some numbers and instead I find people talking about credit applications.
 

gerg

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onken said:
Don't get so butthurt, it's just every time this thread gets bumped I click it in anticipation of some numbers and instead I find people talking about credit applications.
You were the one originally complaining at what other people were posting. It may be disappointing not to have any new information about sales, but if you don't want to get hyped (and subsequently disappointed) by the thread being bumped by unrelated posts keep I'd suggest keeping the page open in a new tab and pressing "F5" every now and then.

I think it's nice when conversations produce natural tangents, rather than being held back by what should or should not be discussed in a thread.
 

onken

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gerg said:
You were the one originally complaining at what other people were posting. It may be disappointing not to have any new information about sales, but if you don't want to get hyped (and subsequently disappointed) by the thread being bumped by unrelated posts keep I'd suggest keeping the page open in a new tab and pressing "F5" every now and then.

I think it's nice when conversations produce natural tangents, rather than being held back by what should or should not be discussed in a thread.
Yeah it's called going off-topic and there's a reason why basically every forum in existence has rules about it but hey maybe you're right, I'll check back later (I should be working anyway :p).
 

gerg

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onken said:
Yeah it's called going off-topic and there's a reason why basically every forum in existence has rules about it but hey maybe you're right, I'll check back later (I should be working anyway :p).
It depends. Opiate is often very strict on what should or shouldn't be discussed when something he finds personally interesting comes up, and I find that extremely stifling - who wants to be told that they can't talk about something? On the other hand, considering I've only seen him do this in regards to a discussion that has been done to death coming out of something newer and not as talked about, I can understand his frustration.

But, in general, GAF is much freer about going off-topic than other forums I've seen, and that's why I like it so much here.
 

wazoo

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Galvanise_ said:
Sony would be dumb not to throw money at Capcom for it. Imagine a Monster Hunter as a launch title for the PSP2.
Nintendo could play that game and win (I do not expect them to do it, but at least they have the money to spend, not Sony) .
 

cvxfreak

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mehdi_san said:
I just realized Amazon JP started taking preorders again for MHP3, but with a shipping date for December 10th. So it seems they're not gonna get daily shipments (but maybe its just amazon)
Well, it was December 6 until an hour ago.
 
Dec 18, 2004
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mehdi_san said:
I really don't understand why Japanese people enjoy lining up so much...
You know even after having lived in this country for as many years as I've had, I've had similar doubts as you have:

Do you really have an hour and a half line in other countries for Krispy Kreme donuts 6 months after the store opening? How long is the line for pax 5 a.m. on the opening day?

Since its opening in December 2006, a persistent waiting line has formed in front of the first branch at Shinjuku Southern Terrace. For the two-minute bliss of a Krispy Kreme doughnut customers are willing to wait patiently for at least one hour and at peak times, two or even three hours long.
Part of me thinks it might have to do with Iwata's talking about Japanese market being very quick early adopters, moving onto trends, and getting rid of the old. Just a magnification of what you see in the west towards these trends?

Fake edit:

http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/182002388.html
Found an academic article on the subject: here is it's summary:


Just like an excessively high price can evoke an image of equally high quality, long waiting lines act as an indicator for popularity, reduce availability and increase the subjective value of a good. .... Standing in line also increases and extends anticipation until--yatto! (finally!)--patience is rewarded with the desired product.
In an article published in The Japan Times in summer 2007, a Japanese woman confessed that she enjoyed queuing outside shops and restaurants and that she usually joins the line before asking the person in front of her what kind of product is sold
Waiting lines have become a marketing tool. 'Benriya'-service companies, which offer all kinds of unusual services, provide rentable 'queuers' who form or extend lines. Customers who are not willing or unable to wait can also rent a queuer who will stand in line and purchase the desired product for them
 

duckroll

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FINALFANTASYDOG said:
You know even after having lived in this country for as many years as I've had, I've had similar doubts as you have:

Do you really have an hour and a half line in other countries for Krispy Kreme donuts 6 months after the store opening?
I can answer this question: Yes. Here in Singapore, a few years back there was a new donut shop which opened in the city area called Donut Factory. It got really good word of mouth, and there was always a huge queue for it, even months after it opened. People would queue for hours after work just for a box of donuts. It only got better after they opened more outlets, and people eventually got tired of the donut trend.
 

gerg

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There's a particularly famous pancake stall in Hampstead in London which almost always has people queueing. It's all about supply and demand, really.

Plus, there's the cliche about British people loving to queue for a reason.
 

duckroll

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gerg said:
There's a particularly famous pancake stall in Hampstead in London which almost always has people queueing. It's all about supply and demand, really.

Plus, there's the cliche about British people loving to queue for a reason.
OMG.

England = Japan confirmed?!

Edit: Btw onken, if you're reading this, I'm SORRY we went off topic again, but Capcom still hasn't issued any press release. Try to stay calm okay? :)