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[frankie_baby]

I'm sure Nintendo has found a way to integrate DLC in the most roundabout way possible. Games that are not build with DLC in mind probably can't ever support it. Let alone patches.

The 3ds does support patches but games have to be made with patchability, any developer that doesnt include support for patches is dumb

 

[Erethian]

3DS doesn't support patches but has DLC?

A version of the 3DS SDK released late last year introduced support for patches, supposedly.

 

[slaughterking]

It's even more surprising how much you try to downplay such a fundamental market mechanism. Price is extremely important. If it was not Nintendo would not have had any reason to dramatically (!) drop the 3DS' price considering its promising software lineup.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

The reason why is barely selling 10k is because of software, not price. Currently is being outsold by the PS3, also it isn't making the same numbers than the 3ds was doing before the price cut. Sony needs games that draws focus to the platform, make it desirable in the consumers eyes, they haven't done so yet. They could cut the price first but if the games are missing they would lose more money on the vita.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the significance of software lineup but that in itself doesn't mean there's no issue with hardware pricepoints. There's still clear problems there.

 

[marc^o^]

No they don't, games are always more important than price. We are talking about gaming, games are the sole reason why these devices exist, it surprises me that this fact is lost on so many "gamers".

What about situation in the west? Fifa is the biggest franchise you can get in Europe ; Uncharted and Wipeout are big franchises here too. So why isn't Vita selling more, if not for a price matter?

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Well, I think that a dedicated episode would perfomr way better than a port.
On PSP they did well, in my opinion, and this MGS3 port is in line with other similar experiments, so I still hope for a brand new episode also on 3DS

Worldwide Peace Walker failed to hit targets though (2m iirc), I just don't think Kojima's going to do a "full" original MGS on a handheld again anytime soon. I think they're going to be HD multiplatform from here on out.

Besides which they alteady talked about wanting to do more ports if Snake Eater 3D sold well enough. That's why they started with MGS3 actually, because it's the first game chronologically. Next would be either Peace Walker or (if it counts) Portable Ops.

 

[Aostia]

Worldwide Peace Walker failed to hit targets though (2m iirc), I just don't think Kojima's going to do a "full" original MGS on a handheld again anytime soon. I think they're going to be HD multiplatform from here on out.

Besides which they alteady talked about wanting to do more ports if Snake Eater 3D sold well enough. That's why they started with MGS3 actually, because it's the first game chronologically. Next would be either Peace Walker or (if it counts) Portable Ops.

I hate you because you're right
But I still hope for possible portable episode tough!

 

[thehypocrite]

It's even more surprising how much you try to downplay such a fundamental market mechanism. Price is extremely important. If it was not Nintendo would not have had any reason to dramatically (!) drop the 3DS' price considering its promising software lineup.

Then present the data that you claim validates your point, Nintendo had no problem securing games for 3DS when the 3DS was the same price than the PSVita, Sony didn't thus they haven't sold as much as the 3DS at the same price point, difference, GAMES.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the significance of software lineup but that in itself doesn't mean there's no issue with hardware pricepoints. There's still clear problems there.

If a factor is more important than the others, which one should be corrected 1st? The most important one takes priority over them as is critical within a business environment. Stabilization takes priority over everything else.

What about situation in the west? Fifa is the biggest franchise you can get in Europe ; Uncharted and Wipeout are big franchises here too. So why isn't Vita selling more, if not for a price matter?

oh so you have the numbers for Europe/US? All we kind of have is UK numbers and that's it, plus you're moving the scope of the conversation as I though we were talking about japan, which is the only place where actual numbers are published weekly. (not claiming that you're wrong, but the point I was making refers to the japanese market only, and I believe we don't have all the data for the other parts of the world to form an opinion of what's working or not)

 

[marc^o^]

All we kind of have is UK numbers and that's it, plus you're moving the scope of the conversation as I though we were talking about japan, which is the only place where actual numbers are published weekly. (not claiming that you're wrong, but the point I was making refers to the japanese market only, and I believe we don't have all the data for the other parts of the world to form an opinion of what's working or not)

We have firm figures from France, which account for 20-25% of total Europe sales (UK sales being a disaster at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised to see France closer to 25%). I moved the scope to other regions to show games don't make that a difference, if price is a barrier.

 

[slaughterking]

Then present the data that you claim validates your point, Nintendo had no problem securing games for 3DS when the 3DS was the same price than the PSVita, Sony didn't thus they haven't sold as much as the 3DS at the same price point, difference, GAMES.

I have, like, no idea what you're even talking about right now. You want evidence that lower prices lead to higher demand?
And Nintendo had no problem securing games at their original price point? What does that even mean or have to do with anything?

 

[electroplankton]

Then present the data that you claim validates your point, Nintendo had no problem securing games for 3DS when the 3DS was the same price than the PSVita, Sony didn't thus they haven't sold as much as the 3DS at the same price point, difference, GAMES.

Also: DS was almost dead with no relevant releases, while PSP still strong with notable releases; backwards compatibility; brand.

 

[Aostia]

I agree that Japanese market is very different from western markets in terms of portable devices perception.
And I agree that the main problem of VIta in Japan are games; but obviously price is hurting its sales too.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

If a factor is more important than the others, which one should be corrected 1st? The most important one takes priority over them as is critical within a business environment. Stabilization takes priority over everything

Given their present market position, I don't think SCE really has the luxury of picking and choosing. Nintendo certainly didn't, both are problems that need to be addressed as soon as possible.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I hate you because you're right
But I still hope for possible portable episode tough!

It's even less likely, but I wouldn't mind seeing AC!D3(D).

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

I agree that Japanese market is very different from western markets in terms of portable devices perception.
And I agree that the main problem of VIta in Japan are games; but obviously price is hurting its sales too.

No games, price tag and growing 3DS Library are all hurting the Vita very badly.

 

[mclem]

I have, like, no idea what you're even talking about right now. You want evidence that lower prices lead to higher demand?

I think the point is that it's a symbiotic relationship. Don't think as it as a price to own a Vita, think of it as a price to *be able to play Vita games*. That should highlight the fact that the product - the ability to play Vita games - isn't enticing enough to sell at that price. It's possible that if the available game range was more attractive or expansive, it *could* sell better at the current pricepoint.

Since the game range doesn't look likely to significantly improve in the short term, then yes, the obvious vector for improvement is the price.

 

[Aostia]

It's even less likely, but I wouldn't mind seeing AC!D3(D).

Well, let's say that for me any dedicated form of a MGS title tailored around 3ds would be interesting (and to avoid too much OT: I also think that Japan-wise it could perform very well)

No games, price tag and growing 3DS Library are all hurting the Vita very badly.

Yes, I agree. I think that the actual situation is a matter of various factors. To me, the primary is the absence of key-software.

 

[darkwing]

No games, price tag and growing 3DS Library are all hurting the Vita very badly.

it has games, not just system selling ones like MH

 

[extralite]

No they don't, games are always more important than price. We are talking about gaming, games are the sole reason why these devices exist, it surprises me that this fact is lost on so many "gamers".

That's not true for Sony devices though. It only does everything? Especially with the PS2 and PSP in their early days they kept selling decently (and the PS2 at a high price even) even when no games where on the charts.

Sony surely was banking on the Vita appealing as a multimedia device again. But the truth is, $250 + whatever your suitable memory card costs is definitely too much for a portable (buying a small memcard means it will get full soon which makes people consider buying a larger one which in turn might tip the full price out of their personal comfort zone).

Also, without a lower price and better user base the Vita will never get those games it needs to start selling really good. Because the price barrier cripples the true potential of any game that could hit it big.

It's not like the Vita doesn't have any games either, MinGolf, Gravity Daze and Tales of Innocence would have sold better on previous Sony hardware. Lower price could sell the games already on the device. None are million sellers but all should be able to sell a bit more on an affordable hardware.

 

[Road]

Dengeki Sales, Mar 26 - Apr 01, 2012 (Week 13)

01. (__) [3DS] Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance (Square Enix) - 207,605 / 207,605 [ST: ~60% => 346,000]
02. (__) [PS3] Pro Baseball Spirits 2012 (Konami) - 87,161 / 87,161 [ST: ~60% => 145,000]
03. (__) [PSP] Pro Baseball Spirits 2012 (Konami) - 67,906 / 67,906 [ST: ~55% => 123,000]
04. (01) [3DS] Kid Icarus: Uprising (Nintendo) - 52,059 / 181,821 (-60%)
05. (03) [NDS] Pokemon Conquest (Pokemon Co.) - 32,689 / 277,478 (-53%)
06. (02) [PSP] Kurohyou 2 Yakuza: Ashura-hen (SEGA) - 28,887 / 129,627 (-71%)
07. (10) [3DS] Super Mario 3D Land (Nintendo) - 24,989 / 1,470,999 (+14%)
08. (05) [3DS] Monster Hunter Tri G (Capcom) - 23,076 / 1,367,081 (-4%)
09. (11) [3DS] Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo) - 19,611 / 1,621,011 (-2%)
10. (__) [PSV] Pro Baseball Spirits 2012 (Konami) - 15,728 / 15,728
11. (12) [3DS] Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (Nintendo) - 15,724 / 124,043 (-15%)
12. (__) [PS3] The Idolmaster: Gravure 4 You! Vol. 6 (Bandai Namco) - 15,575 / 15,575
13. (04) [PS3] Devil May Cry HD Collection (Capcom) - 13,450 / 53,391 (-66%)
14. (13) [PS3] One Piece: Pirate Warriors (Bandai Namco) - 9,165 / 821,095 (-50%)
15. (16) [3DS] Harvest Moon: The Land of Origin (Marvelous AQL) - 8,867 / 159,980 (-22%)
16. (09) [PSP] Shining Blade (SEGA) - 8,400 / 149,835 (-63%)
17. (17) [3DS] Hatsune Miku and Future Stars: Project Mirai (SEGA) - 7,828 / 130,764 (-25%)
18. (__) [PS3] Silent Hill HD Collection (Konami) - 6,583 / 6,583
19. (06) [PS3] Ninja Gaiden 3 (Koei Tecmo) - 6,506 / 34,412 (-77%)
20. (08) [PS3] Mugen Souls (Compile Heart) - 6,431 / 29,012 (-72%)

*ST: Sell-through => estimated copies shipped.


Other software (first week / LTD):

2009-05-30 [NDS] Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days [all prices] (Square Enix) - 320,000 / 591,000


http://news.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/475/475546/
http://megalodon.jp/2012-0407-0014-48/news.dengeki.com/soft/ranking/ranking.html

Week 12: 03-19~03-25

Previous Dengeki Posts (Thanks Cap. Smoker!)
2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2012


Dengeki sales for 358/2 is obviously way higher than both MC and Famitsu.

Something that has gone unnoticed is that 358/2 and BBS had only two days of sales while DDD had four.

 

[thehypocrite]

That's not true for Sony devices though. It only does everything? Especially with the PS2 and PSP in their early days they kept selling decently (and the PS2 at a high price even) even when no games where on the charts.

DVD,games from the biggest franchises announced, first mass market convergence multimedia portable device, Vita has none of those qualities. The market has changed, along with consumers expectations.

Sony surely was banking on the Vita appealing as multimedia device again. But the truth is, $250 + whatever your suitable memory card costs is definitely too much for a portable (buying a small memcard means it will get full soon which makes people consider buying a larger one which in turn might tip the full price over their personal comfort zone).

So the price is too much for what it offers? maybe it should offer more in the experience aspect (PS1 BC, enhanced the OS, High Profile/More games), not on the price.

Also, without a lower price and better user base the Vita will never get those games it needs to start selling really good. Because the price barrier cripples the true potential of any game that could hit it big.

Not really, multiple games are announced before a single device is sold, see 3DS,PS3,360, to build the userbase you need the games that make owing the hw a necessity. Without the unique games the userbase is never formed.

It's not like the Vita doesn't have any games either, MinGolf, Gravity Daze and Tales of Innocence would have sold better on previous Sony hardware. Lower price could sell the games already on the device. None are million sellers but all should be able to sell a bit more on an affordable hardware.

THose games have increased the hw userbase in the measure of their importance, they aren't high profile system sellers, that they could have sold more on a bigger user base? I agree, Cutting the price lose money just so small games sell a little bit more? Waste of money for Sony.

 

[muu]

So the price is too much for what it offers? maybe it should offer more in the experience aspect (PS1 BC, enhanced the OS, High Profile/More games), not on the price.

Lack of true PSP BC is what's killing them. With the current price difference most people probably won't hesitate to get a Vita if it could read UMDs. Japan's used games market is so good (as in, 'used games' looks like new in 95% of cases) that most people won't even think about the download option. Price is important, but we probably still could have seen a DS/3DS situation where Vitas are selling 20K vs PSP 10K, not vice versa.

 

[extralite]

Not really, multiple games are announced before a single device is sold, see 3DS,PS3,360, to build the userbase you need the games that make owing the hw a necessity. Without the unique games the userbase is never formed.

I'm replying to this specifically because you just identified why the Vita doesn't get those necessary announcements. Publishers got burnt by the long time it took the PS3 to reach the mass market by Sony making the thing too damn expensive.

Sony thought the Vita wasn't overpriced because it isn't as expensive as a PS3. Totally ignoring the fact that a portable is expected to cost less. And the PS3 price now would have been acceptable one year into its lifecycle, not at the end of it. The Vita still is way too expensive and the promise of good sales on it crippled in several ways. Price and expected high visual fidelity on a device where these won't shine or aren't necessary come to mind.

 

[thehypocrite]

I'm replying to this specifically because you just identified why the Vita doesn't get those necessary announcements. Publishers got burnt by the long time it took the PS3 to reach the mass market by Sony making the thing too damn expensive.

Sony thought the Vita wasn't overpriced because it isn't as expensive as a PS3. Totally ignoring the fact that a portable is expected to cost less. And the PS3 price now would have been acceptable one year into its lifecycle, not at the end of it. The Vita still is way too expensive and the promise of good sales on it crippled in several ways. Price and expected high visual fidelity on a device where these won't shine or aren't necessary come to mind.

Well then gamers better get ready, cause if publishers don't put the effort on creating games that will help console makers expand the userbase to sell their games, they will put the focus on already existing userbases, in that scenario Android/IOS/Dena/Mobage/GREEE is where they will be moving their portable games/efforts. I don't think that 3DS alone will be able to support the market to make it worthwhile for them in the long run.

 

[electroplankton]

Well then gamers better get ready, cause if publishers don't put the effort on creating games that will help console makers expand the userbase to sell their games, they will put the focus on already existing userbases, in that scenario Android/IOS/Dena/Mobage/GREEE is where they will be moving their portable games/efforts. I don't think that 3DS alone will be able to support the market to make it worthwhile for them in the long run.

Actually, Square Enix developed more important games for mobile phones between 2004-2008, then now with iOS and Android (e.g. Before Crisis: FFVII, Dirge of Cerberus, KH Coded, Dragon Quest mobile, etc.).

 

[The_lascar]

I just made some charts about the first year of 3DS games sales. (it's here, but in french)
Here is, I think, the most interesting.

The first 13 months of the DS/3DS (famitsu)

 

[perfectchaos007]

I just made some charts about the first year of 3DS games sales. (it's here, but in french)
Here is, I think, the most interesting.

The first 13 months of the DS/3DS (famitsu)

So after the big 3 on 3DS, there was a huge drop off in sales for the other games, whereas on DS, the top 10 was all solid?

edit: oh i guess the point is that half of the best sellers on 3DS are from 3rd parties

 

[Mpl90]

I just made some charts about the first year of 3DS games sales. (it's here, but in french)
Here is, I think, the most interesting.

The first 13 months of the DS/3DS (famitsu)

One Piece isn't updated


[3DS] One Piece: Unlimited Cruise SP (Bandai Namco) - 76.578 / 240.584 / 31,83% 26/05/11

 

[gashikunFLCL]

I just made some charts about the first year of 3DS games sales. (it's here, but in french)
Here is, I think, the most interesting.

The first 13 months of the DS/3DS (famitsu)

6 - Super Mario 64 DS - 440225
7 - Tamagotchi Connexion - 770391

?

 

[donny2112]

Have you also skipped (the exclusive) Prince of Persia: Forgotten Sands Wii because of this?

I played the first Prince of Persia on GCN, and thought it was fine, but didn't like the direction of the two followups. Didn't really consider playing this gen's versions.

I do research the games, but it's just that the default thinking the last few years whenever a major publisher has announced a Wii-exclusive game/version is that it's going to be a throw-off team's side effort. If research shows the reality to be otherwise, then that's great, and the purchase will be weighed accordingly. Others with a possibly similar mindset might not do the research, though, which might be the case with Kingdom Hearts 3D if most KH fans considered the "Nintendo" KH games to be low-quality in the past. In that case, a dual PSP release for Japan might've helped assuage such concerns over another low-quality "Nintendo" Kingdom Hearts game.

To go back to Wii U, what little I've seen of Killer Freaks and the fact that it's a Wii U-exclusive makes me highly dubious about it's quality. Ghost Recon Online, since it's a port of the PC version, and ACreed 3, since it's a port of the PS360/PC version, have much higher expectations for me because they're not exclusive (and not side games). :lol

 

[test_account]

Well, yeah, until the userbase excuse becomes an admission of failure on the part of the console manufacturer or the publisher.

Like if someone used a userbase excuse for a 360 title being sold in Japan, that's true. Because Microsoft has consistently, and quite spectacularly, failed in the Japanese market. Or if someone were to use it as an excuse for a hardcore Wii game doing badly, it'd also be true. Because Nintendo and third-parties collectively failed to build an audience for those type of games on the system.

But it's a defensive reaction to a perceived slight against a system, usually. When it's no slight to the 3DS that KH: DDD did badly. Even the most successful systems can have high profile bombs through no fault of the userbase or the console manufacturer.

That sounds right, i agree. I think that the userbase does make a difference and matters within the first few million units.

6 - Super Mario 64 DS - 440225
7 - Tamagotchi Connexion - 770391

?

Super Mario 64 DS is 840225

 

[donny2112]

Super Mario 64 DS is 840225

The picture was updated after that post.

 

[The_lascar]

Yes, thanks gashikun.

One Piece isn't updated

Seems that I had lost a save with my gamedatamuseum check. It's ok now.

 

[charlequin]

This also showed loyal Sony fans that there was no need to get the Tales games on other platforms as they would be eventually ported to a Sony platform. All further attempts of putting Tales on non-Sony platforms suffered for this reason, selling well below the GC Symphonia and also because there were so many new installments on more than just one platform where a move to could maybe have successfully been made.

My biggest problem with this analysis is that all but one of the PSP Tales games also sold worse than GCN Symphonia. Again, this doesn't suggest that Tales did well on "Sony platforms" so much as that its fans were interested in picking a single home console console with high audiovisual performance where it could live side by side with other RPGs. The only platforms that have met that standard were PS2 and PS3 (PSP isn't a console; GCN didn't get much real third-party Japanese support; Wii had the GCN problem plus crummy visuals; Xbox 360 was DOA in Japan.)

You seriously think that certain prejudices towards a console (like being kiddy, casual, graphically inferior, or complicated/Western in the case of the 360) don't factor into what hardware people buy?

One of the most consistent lessons of Sales-Age is that no, they really don't. There are certainly extreme cases like the Xbox, but in general factors like ecosystem, other software successes, price and adoption curve, etc. wind up being much more important than fannish brand loyalty.

 

[LOCK]

So after the big 3 on 3DS, there was a huge drop off in sales for the other games, whereas on DS, the top 10 was all solid?

edit: oh i guess the point is that half of the best sellers on 3DS are from 3rd parties

That's very good for third parties, all things considered, but it makes you wonder what Nintendo is thinking about delaying to release it's nontraditional games.

Makes you wonder if a new model will be introduced along with new mass market games.

Also, this shows how much they have built up the Mario brand since the DS generation.

 

[donny2112]

edit: oh i guess the point is that half of the best sellers on 3DS are from 3rd parties

I certainly hope not. That's the kind of half-brained "analysis" that leads to "Third-party games can't compete with Nintendo games in sales, so we won't release them there" stupidity.

The thing to take away from that chart is that 3DS software situation is a lot less healthy overall than DS was at the same point. It's presently in a dreaded Wii-type situation where the top games sell really well and then there's almost nothing after that. DS had the top games selling well and a healthy range of sales below that, like the PS2 did.

If you want to focus on third-party games, for some reason, then focus on that there's only one third-party game for 3DS or DS after 13 months that's sold over 464K (#10 sales on the DS list).

Edit:
Hmmm. Now if you go down past the Top 10, the next third-party DS game is Naruto at 212K and Slime Mori Mori 2 at 176K. In that case, there is reason to be positive about the increased third-party support on 3DS compared to DS. Going down to 176K on 3DS is essentially the Top 10 shown, so that's 5 third-party games > 176K on 3DS and 3 third-party games > 176K on DS after 13 months each.

Meh. I still get out of it that the 3DS software sales landscape is not particularly healthy looking, right now. Needs more > 500K games on the system. :/

Edit2:
Actually at 13 months, PS2 wasn't doing nearly this well. The top game was Onimusha @ 780K and next was Ridge Racer V @ 580K. Everything else below 500K.

After this further revisement, maybe it does have the start of the PS2-type support, but just with the addition of a lot higher top-selling games? DS then appears just well beyond PS2, which is what it's software was doing in its main years.

Edit3:
Now it's certainly safe to say that the kind of third-party support being shown on 3DS is much preferrable to that shown on DS after 13 months. Much more preferrable, by a long-shot. :lol

 

[extralite]

My biggest problem with this analysis is that all but one of the PSP Tales games also sold worse than GCN Symphonia. Again, this doesn't suggest that Tales did well on "Sony platforms" so much as that its fans were interested in picking a single home console console with high audiovisual performance where it could live side by side with other RPGs. The only platforms that have met that standard were PS2 and PS3 (PSP isn't a console; GCN didn't get much real third-party Japanese support; Wii had the GCN problem plus crummy visuals; Xbox 360 was DOA in Japan.)

That is quite true, sales suggest that Tales does best on home consoles, or rather on the home console of choice. Which so far also always has been a Playstation. Still, PSP Tales did better than not just DS Tales, but also than Tales on all other home consoles of its gen. And they weren't even main line games.

When I say loyalty it may draw up images of fanboyish behavior that indeed is limited to forums and, well fanboys, but being anime and not exactly targetting kids, Tales has a higher amount of nerd fans than say Dragon Quest. But the more important aspect of my usage of the term is simply that buyers have certain expectations of hardware makers, also ones that aren't in fact based in reality and so far the Tales fanbase seems convinced that Sony better delivers on those expectations.

Which is why sales favor a handheld with inferior graphics to 360 and Wii, just because it is Sony. You can put Tales on every hardware, deny them a PS3 tales for years but they still end up supporting the PS3. And in the meanwhile the majority of Tales sales end up on PSP, its gamers missing out on main line games for those years.

This isn't just true for Tales but also for other games of its class, the ones that rely on high visual fidelity to deliver a film like single player experience like FF.

I guess what you're saying is, if Nintendo was to launch a hardware again that can compete visually with the next PS (maybe even outdo it) and does it early enough, from a position of being the market leader even, Tales would do better on it than on PS4. Which might even be true. For that reason alone it would be interesting to see Nintendo do just that but right now it looks like they won't.

But if they would I'd rather expect that next gen Nintendo Tales would do better than all previous non-Sony-Tales but still worse than the Sony ones and probably even worse than the PS4 one. Because you can change reality but that doesn't already change the way people view reality. Sony fans think they have the best graphics even when you show them comparisons with 360 versions. They think the PSP has better graphics than the Wii.

So make a multiplat FF or Tales on new Nintendo and Sony platforms that are equal in graphics and still the majority would stay on the Sony side simply because they gotten used to it. There is no quick transfer of audience to be expected.

One of the most consistent lessons of Sales-Age is that no, they really don't. There are certainly extreme cases like the Xbox, but in general factors like ecosystem, other software successes, price and adoption curve, etc. wind up being much more important than fannish brand loyalty.

The problem is, it's not just the buyers who have these prejudices, or let's rather call them preconceived notions, but also the devs and publishers. The Wii didn't do as well as was expected of it and why it didn't is anybody's guess but you can explain it just as easily with terms like salted ground, inferior effort as by kiddy, casual, sucky graphics.

The numbers don't lie but the explanations don't derive from those numbers. Rather we try to come up with explanations that suit the numbers. When I say the majority stayed loyal to Sony that is simply a fact. It's evident in the numbers. Trying to explain beyond that is dangerous as it ceases to be provable (by numbers). Market research might be better equipped to provide answers here though.

And you can't tell me that KH didn't do worse than expected, 64 % sell through also suggests that retailers expected a little more. MH3G did not act as an umbrella for KH, and then why would it? KH isn't a multiplayer experience, it's a single player one.

Even MH, while succeeding in bringing the franchise to the 3DS, does so at a slower adoption rate than it did on PSP. Which is to be expected too. But the thing is there are people willing to "jump ship" and then there are stubborn ones.

It certainly made easier when people don't have a brand preference per se and the new console has so many similarities to the previous hardware of choice that they feel right at home as with the Playstation being more of a Famicom successor than the N64.

It only took Nintendo one fuck up to lose its leadership to Sony. Sony is clinging to its audience though, they lost only part of their leadership. The Japanese market is a fractured mess, yes, but that in itself is an "achievement" on Sony's part.

I think the Vita is the final fuck up Sony needed to lose its hold on whatever was left to them. Visual fidelity might become a moot point when publishers start acting globally.

On the other hand, they just did that with the 360. And it didn't work out. I hope Nintendo can do better, given serious effort by publishers. I actually want you to be right but sales data in fact reflects the obstacles that is prejudiced mind sets.

 

[electroplankton]

I don't know if it may be a factor, but DS had two Christmas after 13 months in the market; furthermore, we should check also how things are after the top10.

 

[pramath]

In all this talk about Kingdom Hearts, I think most of us are forgetting the real question:
How good is Kid Icarus's second week? How far do we expect it to go?

 

[The_lascar]

The thing to take away from that chart is that 3DS software situation is a lot less healthy overall than DS was at the same point. It's presently in a dreaded Wii-type situation where the top games sell really well and then there's almost nothing after that. DS had the top games selling well and a healthy range of sales below that, like the PS2 did.

Actually, that's my point, but for the Nintendo games.

If you want to focus on third-party games, for some reason, then focus on that there's only one third-party game for 3DS or DS after 13 months that's sold over 464K (#10 sales on the DS list).

I didn't show it because I was little afraid to start this debate with my bad english but here is one other chart:

The fact is, if the 3DS got a better third-party support than the DS had for it's first year, it's because of the all life DS third party support. GBA third-party support was pretty bad, so it was difficult for the DS at the begining. But now the 3DS got lot of DS sequels (Level 5 games, Harvest Moon, Love Plus).

And we have some new games, like Monster Hunter, Resident Evil or a not outsourced Kingdom Hearts. These games had good numbers (not very good for Kingdom Hearts...), but not wonderful either, so there still a very long road to have a third party support like the PSP.

 

[electroplankton]

3DS also lacked strong Nintendo games in the first months; Nintendogs+Cats sold well, but Pilotwings and Steel Diver simply tanked. DS, instead, had Mario, Kirby and WarioWare which helped a lot.

 

[Mpl90]

The first 13 months of DS saw a much, much bigger first party support, with lots of games being released by Nintendo itself. Let's just think that DS had three Pokèmon spin-off, while 3DS has still only one. Or that things as Brain Training hasn't seen a release at all.

But however, MH3G is doing much better than Tamagotchi, and in general there are much more third party efforts which did from decent to great than with DS, due to both brands born on DS and back on 3DS and coming of new mainstream ones. Right now, 3DS third party software enviroment has been healty, pretty healty, and this can only improve with the expansion of install base and other games, obviously.

 

[GCX]

The first 13 months of 3DS saw a much, much bigger first party support, with lots of games being released by Nintendo itself. Let's just think that DS had three Pokèmon spin-off, while 3DS has still only one. Or that things as Brain Training hasn't seen a release at all.

I'm confused. Did you mean DS instead of 3DS in the first sentence?

 

[Mpl90]

I'm confused. Did you mean DS instead of 3DS in the first sentence?

...Yeah XD I'll correct immediatly.

 

[Aostia]

Actually, that's my point, but for the Nintendo games.


And we have some new games, like Monster Hunter, Resident Evil or a not outsourced Kingdom Hearts. These games had good numbers (not very good for Kingdom Hearts...), but not wonderful either, so there still a very long road to have a third party support like the PSP.

I think that we should compare 3DS first 13 months with PSP first 13 months in order to understand the comparison between those two consoles.
Some game (Mosou series for example) probably (if I remember) performed better on PSP in the first part of the lifecicle of the console, but overall I think that the third party global numbers were not better on PSP.
But I cannot remember perfectly, honestly, so if it could be possible to look at another chart, it would be perfect!

 

[electroplankton]

So:

DS:
-2 Christmas
-bigger first party efforts during the first months (e.g. launch titles)
-Brain Training phenomenon

3DS:
-bigger third parties support
-more concentrated sales à la Wii
-no Pokémon spin-off (well, a part Rumble Blast)

 

[Dalthien]

Complete 180

What a glorious mess of a post!

Seriously though, historically speaking, the 3DS has had a fantastic opening 13 months - both hardware and software. And with only a single holiday season under its belt, the 3DS has already built up a very healthy number of titles over 100k.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

The thing to take away from that chart is that 3DS software situation is a lot less healthy overall than DS was at the same point. It's presently in a dreaded Wii-type situation where the top games sell really well and then there's almost nothing after that. DS had the top games selling well and a healthy range of sales below that, like the PS2 did.

I don't know if it may be a factor, but DS had two Christmas after 13 months in the market; furthermore, we should check also how things are after the top10.

Electroplankton, you got half of what I was going to say. It's just had its second holiday, and that means a new Top 500 just arrived so none of those top numbers are months out of date. If we pull back the time frame from 13 months to 12 months,

it's much closer all around, though 3DS's highs are higher.

EDIT: Kind of like how the two N64 games end up paired off.

 

[electroplankton]

Hence, some disparity in the middle of the chart, but then quite the same at the bottom.

 

[BishopLamont]

I think that we should compare 3DS first 13 months with PSP first 13 months in order to understand the comparison between those two consoles.
Some game (Mosou series for example) probably (if I remember) performed better on PSP in the first part of the lifecicle of the console, but overall I think that the third party global numbers were not better on PSP.
But I cannot remember perfectly, honestly, so if it could be possible to look at another chart, it would be perfect!

PSP's first year is abysmal, it doesn't compare at all. First musou launched with 60k, later musous performed well.