Media Create Sales: Week 13, 2014 (Mar 24 - Mar 30)

Jun 27, 2011
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Yup, I've made this point in the past too. Never have the handheld and console iterations of Nintendo's big games been sooooooooooooo similar not only visually, but from a gameplay perspective as well. Fuck, even the names couldn't be more similar! (Land/World, 7/8, 2/U, for 3DS/for Wii U)

If I'm Joe Walmart, and I see a $99 2DS will all of these games for $39 a pop, why would I even think of buying a $299 console for what are basically the same games?
You sell the Wii U to the customers that already have a 3DS.

The 3DS will continue to have great software sales but hardware sales are slowing down. Nintendo customers looking for a new hardware to buy will consider the Wii U, to play more of what they enjoyed on the 3DS.

Long term. It will also mean the 3DS won't get a successor too soon. It doesn't need it because a) it still is selling software and b) with the Wii U it already has a successor.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
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You sell the Wii U to the customers that already have a 3DS.

The 3DS will continue to have great software sales but hardware sales are slowing down. Nintendo customers looking for a new hardware to buy will consider the Wii U, to play more of what they enjoyed on the 3DS.

Long term. It will also mean the 3DS won't get a successor too soon. It doesn't need it because a) it still is selling software and b) with the Wii U it already has a successor.
Yes, i think they need something to get current 3DS owners to upgrade. This might be a really nice looking and feature adding revision like the DSi was - or just the successor. 2DS isnt the answer to that problem, because most current owners wont downgrade and i dont think the hardware price point has been a problem for the 3DS. Though a 10K Yen 2DS might help a bit especially for younger kids, still they need a new higher priced model i think.
 
Jan 16, 2014
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I think overall the LTD for Smash will remain the same: 7-9 million possibly on the lower end. The 3DS will counter the lost sales from the WiiU sku due to its low install base.
I dunno I could see it being 6 million depending on how the wii u version is recieved. 3ds for 4 million is probably a lock though.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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I think overall the LTD for Smash will remain the same: 7-9 million possibly on the lower end. The 3DS will counter the lost sales from the WiiU sku due to its low install base.
7-9 million is a worldwide figure. I think it'll struggle to get to that considering how outside of Japan portables simply aren't as popular, while the WiiU is just as much of a failure. I just don't see a game like Smash selling millions on the 3DS in the US for example.
 
Jun 27, 2011
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Yes, i think they need something to get current 3DS owners to upgrade. This might be a really nice looking and feature adding revision like the DSi was - or just the successor. 2DS isnt the answer to that problem, because most current owners wont downgrade and i dont think the hardware price point has been a problem for the 3DS. Though a 10K Yen 2DS might help a bit especially for younger kids, still they need a new higher priced model i think.
I agree the 2DS will only reach users that don't have a 3DS yet. And that's a good thing because all those double dipping handheld buyers are creating an image of an install base that isn't real. You don't buy twice the games because you own the hardware twice.

3DS needs to deliver consistently good 3rd party sales in the core gaming segment (which it has managed to do well so far) to satisfy 3rd parties' expectations. Another reason why Nintendo will leave the 3DS family to 3rd parties and focus on Wii U in the future.

7-9 million is a worldwide figure. I think it'll struggle to get to that considering how outside of Japan portables simply aren't as popular, while the WiiU is just as much of a failure. I just don't see a game like Smash selling millions on the 3DS in the US for example.
Agreed. It also means any negative effect the 3DS version could have in the West is minimal. The 3DS version might not solve any problems in the West but it will hurt it even less.
 
Jul 28, 2012
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7-9 million is a worldwide figure. I think it'll struggle to get to that considering how outside of Japan portables simply aren't as popular, while the WiiU is just as much of a failure. I just don't see a game like Smash selling millions on the 3DS in the US for example.
Yeah I think your right. I was thinking the WiiU will end up around 10-12 million. So around 3-4 million on WiiU. I guess now that I look at it 3-4 million on 3DS doesn't seem right. So around 2-2.5 million for 3DS SKU resulting in an LTD of 5-6.5 million for Smash 4.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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before I go to bed: Nintendo's fiscal report and corresponding update for top-selling Wii U games will only include stuff over 1 million right?
so we'll see NSMB U, 3D World, Nintendoland, and WWHD presumably when it comes out
 
Jan 25, 2012
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7-9 million is a worldwide figure. I think it'll struggle to get to that considering how outside of Japan portables simply aren't as popular, while the WiiU is just as much of a failure. I just don't see a game like Smash selling millions on the 3DS in the US for example.
Yeah I think your right. I was thinking the WiiU will end up around 10-12 million. So around 3-4 million on WiiU. I guess now that I look at it 3-4 million on 3DS doesn't seem right. So around 2-2.5 million for 3DS SKU resulting in an LTD of 5-6.5 million for Smash 4.
Given how other 3DS games have sold I think you guys might be lowballing it a bit.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
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I agree the 2DS will only reach users that don't have a 3DS yet. And that's a good thing because all those double dipping handheld buyers are creating an image of an install base that isn't real. You don't buy twice the games because you own the hardware twice.

3DS needs to deliver consistently good 3rd party sales in the core gaming segment (which it has managed to do well so far) to satisfy 3rd parties' expectations. Another reason why Nintendo will leave the 3DS family to 3rd parties and focus on Wii U in the future.
I think its not that simple, because people who upgrade tend to sell or give their old systems away and thus increasing the userbase. And when it comes to handhelds aka. the people who havent abandoned the market for cheap and small smartphone games thats the better approach. It works for smartphones and other devices as well. As long as the new product revision is delivering.

3DS+ - better looking, better quality screens, more ram+ higher speed cpu could allow for more os-features like having mulitple games in standby/save-state mode or support for virtual console gba and snes titles.

I think such a device is possible, but they might just held it back to make sure to have more selling point for the 3DS successor and making sure it hits the ground running. Having their handheld support all VC systems by the time it comes out would be a big selling point for me at least.
 
May 4, 2005
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I wonder why you still treat the Smash games as one game. They are obviously different games with different stages and different game modes. Just because they are being developed with each other in mind and close to each other doesn't make them the same game. Considering Mario Kart and Smash are both very local-multiplayer-oriented, I'm still optimistic for the Wii U games and I'm fine with the order the Smash games get released. I'm just sad that Smash is going to be their big holiday titel, I don't like Smash that much.
 
Dec 26, 2011
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I think its not that simple, because people who upgrade tend to sell or give their old systems away and thus increasing the userbase. And when it comes to handhelds aka. the people who havent abandoned the market for cheap and small smartphone games thats the better approach. It works for smartphones and other devices as well. As long as the new product revision is delivering.

3DS+ - better looking, better quality screens, more ram+ higher speed cpu could allow for more os-features like having mulitple games in standby/save-state mode or support for virtual console gba and snes titles.

I think such a device is possible, but they might just held it back to make sure to have more selling point for the 3DS successor and making sure it hits the ground running. Having their handheld support all VC systems by the time it comes out would be a big selling point for me at least.
Honestly they should just go 'games first' route similar to ps4. No gimmicks, they aren't going to work anymore unless it's some revolutionary hardware feature which I don't see them coming up with. Have it a powerful little machine (at the very least with Vita-level power) with launch price of around 130-150 euro and you've got the portable market won. With the casuals moved on to smartphones, it is the gamers that should be targeted. Well and kids, but Mario takes care of that.
 
Dont get me wrong i get that. The situation for the Wii U and its software output is a disaster. They screwed up big time years ago with the titles that got greenlit and they mismanaged the support they would get from 3rd parties.

Smash on WiiU could have been released in two weeks for 2k Yen and it still wouldn't change the outcome of the system more than it is with a later release of the 3DS version.
I feel like im reading many unrealistic expectations from people wanting the WiiU to get a better treatment just for the sake of it This is business and at this point its all about covering their asses for Nintendo till they can get the next home-console out and somewhat please their shareholders. Their is a reason why nobody would be surprised if WiiU games like SMT x Fire Emblem end up on 3DS instead or 3DS DKCR port has no trouble outselling the brand new WiiU version.
Oh yes, I agree it's far too late for Wii U.

It doesn't bother me that they're trying to keep their brands relevant in a time where they might otherwise fade. It just sticks out to me that they're not simultaneously trying to work this the other way as well and figure out a solid console model for some of their handheld series.

Now, I get that the Wii U is a failure and that each game on it is in theory a wasted resource from the perspective that they're likely to either lose money or make a relatively marginal profit compared to other opportunities, but since they're bothering to invest in the platform anyway, I feel there's probably room here to try and figure out something at least to capitalize on for when they launch their next home console, assuming they release one.

You also could argue that many of the 50 million 3DS owners who will be able to experience Smash Bros. 3DS first, might end up picking the WiiU and this version as well at a later point. Isnt this the argument of why Nintendo should put its content on Smartphones/tablets ? Getting a way bigger userbase to play the game and convert some of them to potential buyers of their dedicated gaming devices. Getting the 3DS userbase to "upgrade" or at least considering the WiiU seems to be the goal now, which is also supported by handheld titles hitting the WiiU VC. Especially when it comes to younger customers, the 3DS is where its at right now and they cant really afford having them to miss a big part of their consumers by going exclusive on their bomba system with such a title.
This is a fair argument. I generally feel this tends to work best at selling additional games in the series on the same platform, but studies from companies like EA that work on every platform have shown that games on one platform have driven interest in games in the same series on another platform.

That said, I do think the price wall of getting a Wii U exacerbates this issue in the other direction. EA only makes games on major hit platforms, so a lot of their potential customer base already has several (or even all) the platforms their multiplatform series is on, so their only friction in selling additional titles to people is convincing them it's worth playing another entry in the series, as opposed to having to sell them an expensive piece of hardware to do so.

If we exclude this factor however and focus on the positive correlation aspect here, then we get back to the argument of "If having similar games on the 3DS helps get people interested in buying Wii U titles, why not build new console/Wii U games based on popular handheld series that haven't or have rarely appeared on console before?"

Ultimately what bothers me here is that they're not fully following through on any particular direction. They're not using smartphones to try to sell people on the 3DS and they're not fully using the 3DS to try and sell people the Wii U, but they're also draining out the Wii U into the 3DS to help it. However, the 3DS isn't draining anything out into smartphones, suggesting they see hardware exclusives as a valuable way to sell hardware. There doesn't feel like real unified strategy here so much as them just engaging in various types of immediate damage control regardless of how it positions them long term.

With multiplayer heavy titles like Mario Kart and Smash the home-console version still will have its pull. No it wont set the world on fire, but i doubt this would be the case even if there wasnt a 3DS version. Would NSMB U would have sold way better without a NSMB 2 on 3DS ? I really doubt it. 3DS and WiiU version are different games and i dont see the 3DS as a substitute for people who want to play a better looking Smash on the big screen with their friends.
Yeah, I still expect Smash on Wii U to do around 2-3 million like the other top selling Wii U games.

I do think if all the listed series were only on Wii U there would be some bump (Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Smash, NSMB), but that the bump would definitely not be worth the amount of damage and lost sales it would cause on the 3DS.

However, that this is likely true suggests to me an incredibly fundamental issue in their console business and the difficulty of actually supporting two platforms like this when what's in their best interest can often clash. Obviously every person put on a Wii U game is not working on a 3DS game and vice versa, but I feel things like franchise strategy also tend to play into this when looking at the bigger picture.

Their overall software strategies failed to highlight the unique Wii U features and the system is struggling to find an identity. Expected games that hit every home-console like Mario Kart or Smash wont change this situation. When you look at their current situation and the short-term to midterm goals the Smash release makes sense. In the last years, while other publisher have been focusing on their big fall titles, Nintendo has been using the spot to launch their bigger handheld games like NSMB2 or Animal Crossing New Leaf because their position in the handheld market allows it.
Right, I totally agree here. This is the correct move for the 3DS and it's something that's not really likely to effect the Wii U in a notably negative way given where it is already.

It's just in the grand scheme of things I feel it continues to add to its identity problem, but if that is relevant at this point is debatable. However, I do think it is possible for this scenario to be both "this is a fine and/or good decision in this case" and "this is part of a problematic pattern for Nintendo's home consoles".

If we examine the Smash Bros. 3DS/WiiU release in a vacuum without the prior shortcomings and screw-ups concerning the WiiU system. Which release pattern would benefit Nintendo and gamers more ? Am i right thinking that a Holiday release for the WiiU version and the 3DS version for 2015 would have solved most complains we are having right now ? It definitely feels that way.
As it stands I think releasing the 3DS version as soon as possible is better for gamers and the sales of the game as a whole, especially since it can have the entire Fall period to sell while the 3DS is still relevant and in need of some stronger software.

It's also better for Nintendo in that it's more likely to generate double dips and to help their strongest remaining business.

I do think that releasing the 3DS version second would be better for the Wii U, but if that is actually a pertinent thing to consider when making business decisions at this point is questionable.
 
7-9 million is a worldwide figure. I think it'll struggle to get to that considering how outside of Japan portables simply aren't as popular, while the WiiU is just as much of a failure. I just don't see a game like Smash selling millions on the 3DS in the US for example.
Personally I'm imagining at least 5 million in aggregate right now since if Smash totally fails to take off on 3DS, I expect it to become a free pack-in for the holidays which should boost it up quite a bit unless the system completely and utterly collapses sales wise.

If it doesn't, then 3 million on 3DS and 2 million on Wii U doesn't seem ridiculous if there are some non-free pack-in bundles, since you only need about 1 million per region on the 3DS side LTD and then the only two relevant Wii U titles both managed about 2 million, so seeing Smash drop from that would be somewhat surprising to me.

Though I do maintain the potential for upside on that does seem high, even if definitely not guaranteed for the reasons you mentioned.
 
Jun 27, 2011
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electrolit.net
I think its not that simple, because people who upgrade tend to sell or give their old systems away and thus increasing the userbase.
That is true but those used systems will eat into new system sales so how beneficial they actually are to the software market is questionable. The 2DS on the other hand is as cheap as a used system but provides 100% new sales, both hardware and software.

And when it comes to handhelds aka. the people who havent abandoned the market for cheap and small smartphone games thats the better approach. It works for smartphones and other devices as well. As long as the new product revision is delivering.

3DS+ - better looking, better quality screens, more ram+ higher speed cpu could allow for more os-features like having mulitple games in standby/save-state mode or support for virtual console gba and snes titles.

I think such a device is possible, but they might just held it back to make sure to have more selling point for the 3DS successor and making sure it hits the ground running. Having their handheld support all VC systems by the time it comes out would be a big selling point for me at least.
If you give people a reason to upgrade they will probably want to. And they might get annoyed for buying new hardware already and expecting it to come so some end up waiting for the definitive model. This could be hurting Nintendo now coming from the DS gen.

The Wii U on the other hand doesn't replace the 3DS, it supplements it. People have money to buy something new and they get something that doesn't devalue what they already have. 3DS portable and 3D, Wii U nice graphics and local multiplayer.

When the GB arrived, it had the same games as the NES and later the SNES (this was before the GB was practically already dead and got a second life with a new and unique title, Pokémon). Super Mario, Tetris, Tennis, later Zelda. All sequels or similar games to what was already available on consoles.

But Tetris was very much suited to be a portable game and outperformed the NES version. Also the GB was cheap and many weren't reluctant to buy it as a supplement system to their console. To play more oft the same series they already knew.

The problem the Wii U has is not the lack of unique franchises. The biggest segment of customers keeps playing the same series for new content, not new gameplay. What hurts it is that cheap portables are now the norm and convincing customers to buy a supplement system that is more expensive than your main is a hard sell. Especially since portables are expensive nowadays too.

2DS reverses the process, making portables cheap again. And giving customers a budget for a console, that has some of the features people have grown to love on portables, but also the advantages of a console.

Iwata is thinking long term and he isn't stupid, even if some people here keep claiming that.
 
Nov 22, 2013
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Launching two games of the same series at the same time isn´t exactly a smart idea (while there´s a little difference because the Smash titles are different from each other, there´s a recent situation how launching in the same day could have a negative impact on overall sales with Project Miku on PS3/PSV), so I welcome the seperated launch dates.

It´s really silly to see all the amount of "doom & gloom" spreaded due to the 3DS title launching first by only a few months. Especially because until the "Smash direct" announcement basically no one expected any Smash Bros title to launch this early - the Summer release of one of the two title was actually a big surprise. So it´s really hilarious to see all this reactions (especially from people that obviously don´t care about those games and basically see it as another opportunity to bash Nintendo) just because the 3DS title will launch earlier than expected, while the WiiU title will be their big holiday title as expected.

When it comes to sales, I welcome this decision for following reasons. A summer release isn´t exactly a great time when it comes to hardware and software sales, so it´s reasonable to take advantage of a big userbase in that time-frame instead. A big launch title in the holiday season will be more effective as a system-seller. If the SSBWiiU launched to early it would have lost a lot of steam before it even reaches the holiday season.

The WiiU version looks superior to the 3DS title, it´s an easier sell to offer a title that could be perceived as an upgrade to the same fanbase, at a later date than the other way around. Which could lead to overall more software sales.

Nintendo has to support both systems WiiU and 3DS. 3DS can´t be neglected just because the other system is doing worse, especially considering that it´s their current money-maker. While 3DS is selling well they have to keep momentum for the system.
An early launch will help 3DS sales and is a lot more efficient than launching it to close to the upcoming MH4G.

I also doubt that someone that has more interest in SSB-3DS would have run immediately to the store and get a WiiU if the launch dates were reversed. Because the launch dates are still close together and most likely they would have just waited until the 3DS title launches, this way by the time they played the game to their hearts content and are looking out for more SSBWiiU would have been out for 6-12months. Even if he would "upgrade" after such a long time it wouldn´t be as noticeable or effective as if it (desire for more SSB) happened this the holiday season instead.
 

L~A

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Jan 19, 2013
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Yeah, not looking forward to this week... expecting drops everywhere :p

Well... except Youkai Watch, curious to see how it's performed last week.


Famitsu leaks from our good friend Gibson :

Japan Famitsu - quiet week with 3DS 32k from from 57k last week, Vita 23k (41k), PS4 15k (24k), PS3 12k (17k), WiiU 8k (13k)
Japan Famitsu - #1 was Mario Party Island Tour for 3DS with 55k (265k life to date), #2 Yokai Watch 27k (680k life), #3 Just Dance WiiU 20k
 
Jan 3, 2012
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Everything dropped by 40%.

Mario Party: Island Tour seems to have great legs and Yo-Kai Watch will reach 700.000 next week. I expect it to pass the million mark shortly after Golden Week if it has a big holiday push.

With regards to Super Smash Bros 3DS I never thought it would be released this Summer, even less months before the Wii U version. My sales expectations are very high, I feel it is been highly underestimated here, I have little no doubt that it will do extremely well.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
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Oh yes, I agree it's far too late for Wii U.

It doesn't bother me that they're trying to keep their brands relevant in a time where they might otherwise fade. It just sticks out to me that they're not simultaneously trying to work this the other way as well and figure out a solid console model for some of their handheld series.

Now, I get that the Wii U is a failure and that each game on it is in theory a wasted resource from the perspective that they're likely to either lose money or make a relatively marginal profit compared to other opportunities, but since they're bothering to invest in the platform anyway, I feel there's probably room here to try and figure out something at least to capitalize on for when they launch their next home console, assuming they release one.
True, at this point their only obligation for WiiU is to ride it out without scaring off the couple of million users who already bought the system and are probably part of their core fans. Trying to reach many different goals, while introducing a new platform has resulted in mixed message when it comes to their strategy.

This is a fair argument. I generally feel this tends to work best at selling additional games in the series on the same platform, but studies from companies like EA that work on every platform have shown that games on one platform have driven interest in games in the same series on another platform.

That said, I do think the price wall of getting a Wii U exacerbates this issue in the other direction. EA only makes games on major hit platforms, so a lot of their potential customer base already has several (or even all) the platforms their multiplatform series is on, so their only friction in selling additional titles to people is convincing them it's worth playing another entry in the series, as opposed to having to sell them an expensive piece of hardware to do so.

If we exclude this factor however and focus on the positive correlation aspect here, then we get back to the argument of "If having similar games on the 3DS helps get people interested in buying Wii U titles, why not build new console/Wii U games based on popular handheld series that haven't or have rarely appeared on console before?"

Ultimately what bothers me here is that they're not fully following through on any particular direction. They're not using smartphones to try to sell people on the 3DS and they're not fully using the 3DS to try and sell people the Wii U, but they're also draining out the Wii U into the 3DS to help it. However, the 3DS isn't draining anything out into smartphones, suggesting they see hardware exclusives as a valuable way to sell hardware. There doesn't feel like real unified strategy here so much as them just engaging in various types of immediate damage control regardless of how it positions them long term.
Well, thats another point i dont quite understand. Im not even talking about games, but a Nintendo App which informs users about release dates, demos, trailers etc.for upcoming games and so. Iwata promised to use smartphones as appetizers for the "real" games on WiiU/3DS. Its probably happening but with their limited staff, all these moves just takes too long to executed. I mean there is still no native Miiverse App, there is no web eShop for buying/selling content from PC/smartphones, no way to pay via NFC support for the eShop and so on.

Holding your cards very close and being veeeeery slow makes you look incapable of anything for outsiders, a point which doesnt seem to bother them much.
Yeah, I still expect Smash on Wii U to do around 2-3 million like the other top selling Wii U games.

I do think if all the listed series were only on Wii U there would be some bump (Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Smash, NSMB), but that the bump would definitely not be worth the amount of damage and lost sales it would cause on the 3DS.

However, that this is likely true suggests to me an incredibly fundamental issue in their console business and the difficulty of actually supporting two platforms like this when what's in their best interest can often clash. Obviously every person put on a Wii U game is not working on a 3DS game and vice versa, but I feel things like franchise strategy also tend to play into this when looking at the bigger picture.
At least Iwata acknowledged the issue and that their next-generation of hardware will share the same hardware architecture and development environment. They just cant support both systems like that for 5-6 years, it took a long time but with the WiiU bombing and they not being able to change that here is hope for a unified platform. For the next-generation they should design the homeconsole as an add-on and not the main-hub. Lets be clear no matter what they show us, the next handheld will probably be more successful than the home console and get more support etc. The console should be able to play/display the 4DS games on the big screen for as cheap as possible. Of course it would also get the exclusive games, but depending on the market situation those would be more an extra than necessity for its success.

Sub 200 € home console, plays and supports all 4DS titles and multi development for both systems is as simple as it can be, supports all Virtual console consoles, no gimmicks that increases the price. Aka. do anything to establish that unfied platform as a base-level for all upcoming games/system like Apple App Store. The shitty game i bought years ago from the Appstore will still run on my 2018 iPhone.

This "starting from zero" mentality and " one system can change everything" BS has to stop - the market has change and if the eco system is toxic or not inviting no one will give a shit about a couple nice games, especially when you entry fee is 300 bucks. WiiUs first months where a joke, if they had such a unified strategy in place WiiU owners could have at least enjoyed Luigis Mansion Dark Moon HD, Fire Emblem Awakening HD, Kid Icarus "U"prising and so on. Especially in the west, there are many people who just dont care about handhelds anymore and when it comes to getting a home console this could make a difference for that customer group.

Call the next home console "Nintendo", make it simple good looking system, launch at 200€ with the goal of having it being a 100 dollar TV/Nintendo box 2-3 year from it launch. Its all about the userbase, cant be spending 30-40 millions on games only to sell to around 5 million WiiU owners.
Right, I totally agree here. This is the correct move for the 3DS and it's something that's not really likely to effect the Wii U in a notably negative way given where it is already.

It's just in the grand scheme of things I feel it continues to add to its identity problem, but if that is relevant at this point is debatable. However, I do think it is possible for this scenario to be both "this is a fine and/or good decision in this case" and "this is part of a problematic pattern for Nintendo's home consoles".
Agreed, the overall negativity ( not only on GAF) just got to me. Its not a situation where Nintendo is clearly doing something wrong or where there are options which would benefit us more. No one here expected Smash WiiU to hit before this Winter, lets be honest. So gamers are entitled top be mad because the 3DS version appears to be further ahead in its development cycle ? Not mentioning that even for the 3DS we have constantly people doubting Nintendos future support and what they can still offer for the system.

As it stands I think releasing the 3DS version as soon as possible is better for gamers and the sales of the game as a whole, especially since it can have the entire Fall period to sell while the 3DS is still relevant and in need of some stronger software.

It's also better for Nintendo in that it's more likely to generate double dips and to help their strongest remaining business.

I do think that releasing the 3DS version second would be better for the Wii U, but if that is actually a pertinent thing to consider when making business decisions at this point is questionable.
Nothing to add here.
Honestly they should just go 'games first' route similar to ps4. No gimmicks, they aren't going to work anymore unless it's some revolutionary hardware feature which I don't see them coming up with. Have it a powerful little machine (at the very least with Vita-level power) with launch price of around 130-150 euro and you've got the portable market won. With the casuals moved on to smartphones, it is the gamers that should be targeted. Well and kids, but Mario takes care of that.
Yes - no gimmicks if they increase the price of the hardware and are only useful for a small part of the audience. At least not for the base model. Less than 150€/$, good screen, battery life and support with all virtual console systems.

My nephew got a cheap 7" tablet for less than 100€ around Christmas and it makes the 3DS XL look like a joke - which is costs more than twice as much. So yeah its possible to build a kick ass handheld for 150€.

That is true but those used systems will eat into new system sales so how beneficial they actually are to the software market is questionable. The 2DS on the other hand is as cheap as a used system but provides 100% new sales, both hardware and software.
Well they still would have higher hardware sales from people upgrading for the premium model. I would rather have 20k sale more units sold that were a higher priced model, than the same amount of units sold at lower price with a 2DS like unit. Also cheap hardware doesnt do much when the software prices are still considered quite high - at least thats the takeaway from the 2DS reception in europe/us. Its like they are 50 percent there, but as Nirolak said arent quite able to follow that direction through. This would also mean cheaper games - an official classic or best of series introducing older titles like Pilot Wings Resort or Nintendogs at a cheaper price.


If you give people a reason to upgrade they will probably want to. And they might get annoyed for buying new hardware already and expecting it to come so some end up waiting for the definitive model. This could be hurting Nintendo now coming from the DS gen.

The Wii U on the other hand doesn't replace the 3DS, it supplements it. People have money to buy something new and they get something that doesn't devalue what they already have. 3DS portable and 3D, Wii U nice graphics and local multiplayer.

When the GB arrived, it had the same games as the NES and later the SNES (this was before the GB was practically already dead and got a second life with a new and unique title, Pokémon). Super Mario, Tetris, Tennis, later Zelda. All sequels or similar games to what was already available on consoles.

But Tetris was very much suited to be a portable game and outperformed the NES version. Also the GB was cheap and many weren't reluctant to buy it as a supplement system to their console. To play more oft the same series they already knew.

The problem the Wii U has is not the lack of unique franchises. The biggest segment of customers keeps playing the same series for new content, not new gameplay. What hurts it is that cheap portables are now the norm and convincing customers to buy a supplement system that is more expensive than your main is a hard sell. Especially since portables are expensive nowadays too.

2DS reverses the process, making portables cheap again. And giving customers a budget for a console, that has some of the features people have grown to love on portables, but also the advantages of a console.

Iwata is thinking long term and he isn't stupid, even if some people here keep claiming that.

Agreed - cheaper portables are the goal to maintain their place in the market. But again, cheaper hardware with quite high software prices wont change much i suspect. Especially since - just from a hardwarepoint the 2DS/3DS is a joke compared to most portable devices on the market right now. So its gonna be always about the software and i feel their offerings their have been lacking - this might work for their own stand-out titles but the larger part of the western market considers the software prices to high ( especially for retail eShop games) - and this wont change with the 2DS.

I see it that way - if i will end up spending multiple hundreds of euros to get my library going on i`ll want to play the games on the best system available, which also explains why the 3DS XL is pretty much the defacto 3DS system even if its more expensive. Thats would be like me getting the cheapest smartphone out there while spending big bucks on software in its Appstore. Thats doesnt seem as likely anymore with the current competition from f2b mobile games.
 
Nov 22, 2013
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Sub 200 € home console, plays and supports all 4DS titles and multi development for both systems is as simple as it can be, supports all Virtual console consoles, no gimmicks that increases the price. Aka. do anything to establish that unfied platform as a base-level for all upcoming games/system like Apple App Store. The shitty game i bought years ago from the Appstore will still run on my 2018 iPhone.
Nintendos next handheld graphically will be to WiiU similar to what PSV is to PS3. Wouldn´t it be more reasonable to make a "little brother" to WiiU with very similar architecture for easier cross-development, instead of launching a new console based on Nintendos next handheld which won´t be significantly more powerful than WiiU or even worse the same as the handheld like Vita TV? By the time Nintendos next handheld is due (2016/2017) WiiU likely will be at a 200 price range anyway.

Basically I don´t see the benefit in your idea, because you can achieve the same goal without introducing a new console. And there is little to no point in launching a system that by then would be even less competetive compared to other consoles (the upcoming next gen) than WiiU.
 
Apr 8, 2005
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www.gamescharts.fr
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/dark-souls-ii-and-3ds-win-march-chart-battles-in-japan/0130919

And here are the weekly charts for week ending April 6th:

1. Mario Party Island Tour (Nintendo) 3DS – 55,067
2. Youkai Watch (LevelFive) 3DS – 27,171
3. Just Dance Wii U (Nintendo) Wii U – 19,970
4. Samurai Warriors 4 (Tecmo Koei) PS3 – 19,195
5. Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes (Konami) PS3 – 18,440
6. Hatsune Miku Project DIVA F 2nd (Sega) Vita – 14,963
7. J Stars Victory Versus (Namco Bandai) PS3 – 12,910
8. Hatsune Miku Project DIVA F 2nd (Sega) PS3 – 11,162
9. Kirby: Triple Deluxe (Nintendo) 3DS – 11,106
10. Professional Baseball Spirits 2014 (Konami) PS3 – 11,013

And here's the weekly hardware:

1. Nintendo 3DS LL – 24,213
2. PS Vita – 22,953
3. PS4 – 15,036
4. PS3 – 12,120
5. Wii U – 7,686
6. Nintendo 3DS – 7,467
7. PSP – 2,242
8. PS Vita TV – 1,181
9. Xbox360 – 178
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,410
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Nintendos next handheld graphically will be to WiiU similar to what PSV is to PS3. Wouldn´t it be more reasonable to make a "little brother" to WiiU with very similar architecture for easier cross-development, instead of launching a new console based on Nintendos next handheld which won´t be significantly more powerful than WiiU or even worse the same as the handheld like Vita TV? By the time Nintendos next handheld is due (2016/2017) WiiU likely will be at a 200 price range anyway.

Basically I don´t see the benefit in your idea, because you can achieve the same goal without introducing a new console. And there is little to no point in launching a system that by then would be even less competetive compared to other consoles (the upcoming next gen) than WiiU.

I dont see them using the WiiU Power-PC architecture in future devices - which is why i dont expect them to have Wii/WiiU BC for their next system. They can and will of course use whatever they learned from 3DS/WiiU for their software development tools, so is expect WiiU inhouse devs will feel right at home when developing for the 4DS. But for the hardware i expect something that scales more naturally betweens the need for a handheld and homeconsole while being cheap. Amazon is using the overclocked version of 2012/13 Qualcomm mobile SoC in the FireTV - pretty much all Android titles will work with next to no work on it, but it`ll still get exclusive content.

That should be their future approach.
 
Nov 22, 2013
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I dont see them using the WiiU Power-PC architecture in future devices - which is why i dont expect them to have Wii/WiiU BC for their next system. They can and will of course use whatever they learned from 3DS/WiiU for their software development tools, so is expect WiiU inhouse devs will feel right at home when developing for the 4DS. But for the hardware i expect something that scales more naturally betweens the need for a handheld and homeconsole while being cheap. Amazon is using the overclocked version of 2012/13 Qualcomm mobile SoC in the FireTV - pretty much all Android titles will work with next to no work on it, but it`ll still get exclusive content.

That should be their future approach.
Does PSV use a Cell-CPU? ;)
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,410
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Does PSV use a Cell-CPU? ;)
Nope, why would it ? As i said im talking from a hardware point, there is the development-tool environment as well which of course will be based on their current software. They wont redo their whole dev pipeline when working on 4DS software.
 

L~A

Member
Jan 19, 2013
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I dont see them using the WiiU Power-PC architecture in future devices - which is why i dont expect them to have Wii/WiiU BC for their next system. They can and will of course use whatever they learned from 3DS/WiiU for their software development tools, so is expect WiiU inhouse devs will feel right at home when developing for the 4DS. But for the hardware i expect something that scales more naturally betweens the need for a handheld and homeconsole while being cheap. Amazon is using the overclocked version of 2012/13 Qualcomm mobile SoC in the FireTV - pretty much all Android titles will work with next to no work on it, but it`ll still get exclusive content.

That should be their future approach.
Huh? Of course their next system will have Wii U BC, Iwata did say it would "integrate" the whole Wii U architecture :

n this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately.
With their whole "switch to account-based relationship" and all, they'll want to make sure people can keep their WiiU software on the next console, just like you can with Android/iOS, so that there's no abrupt gap for users.

I'd be very surprised if there was no BC for their next console, to be honest.
 
Jun 9, 2013
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The difference between MGSV PS3 and MGSV PS4 now is almost 2:1. Weird how the gap between them only got bigger and bigger with time.
Really shitty sales this week. It seems there isn't any new release to push software sales either.

I dont see them using the WiiU Power-PC architecture in future devices - which is why i dont expect them to have Wii/WiiU BC for their next system. They can and will of course use whatever they learned from 3DS/WiiU for their software development tools, so is expect WiiU inhouse devs will feel right at home when developing for the 4DS. But for the hardware i expect something that scales more naturally betweens the need for a handheld and homeconsole while being cheap. Amazon is using the overclocked version of 2012/13 Qualcomm mobile SoC in the FireTV - pretty much all Android titles will work with next to no work on it, but it`ll still get exclusive content.

That should be their future approach.
Yep. I see something like this. Their next homeconsole could use modified (and overclocked) high end mobile components. By Christmas 2016 they could release something really decent considering how fast that technology is evolving.

And they could release in the same year a "DSi" kind of redesign for the 3DS (with some new components) to give it a new life and add some unified OS features. I don't think they'll release a new device three years in a row (QoL, homeconsole, handheld)

They need to improve the eShop and make it more like other manufacturers networks first though.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,410
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Huh? Of course their next system will have Wii U BC, Iwata did say it would "integrate" the whole Wii U architecture :



With their whole "switch to account-based relationship" and all, they'll want to make sure people can keep their WiiU software on the next console, just like you can with Android/iOS, so that there's no abrupt gap for users.

I'd be very surprised if there was no BC for their next console, to be honest.
Hmm interesting - didnt expect them to continue using this system. From which date is the quote?

WiiU BC means that the next system will have GamePad support as well ? Or even come with one ? I cant see that happening tbh. I would expect stuff like Virtual Console games to be developed into such a layer that they will work on future systems without too

Yep. I see something like this. Their next homeconsole could use modified (and overclocked) high end mobile components. By Christmas 2016 they could release something really decent considering how fast that technology is evolving.

And they could release in the same year a "DSi" kind of redesign for the 3DS (with some new components) to give it a new life and add some unified OS features. I don't think they'll release a new device three years in a row (QoL, homeconsole, handheld)

They need to improve the eShop and make it more like other manufacturers networks first though.
Yes, using cheaper mobile SoC as a base means a very cheap console - which means they could even spend a bit more on convincing gimmicks without arriving at 350$ price point like with the WiiU. much work. Or maybe their wont be a need for gimmicks anymore the arrive of their new QoL platform.
 
Nov 22, 2013
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Nope, why would it ? As i said im talking from a hardware point, there is the development-tool environment as well which of course will be based on their current software. They wont redo their whole dev pipeline when working on 4DS software.
You see despite, the big difference between PS3 and PSV there is some kind of cross-development, shared resources going on. Why exactly would a more streamlined architecture than the Cell-CPU cause more problems to create a similar shared ecosystem between WiiU and Nintendos next gen handheld. The handheld can still be designed with their next gen console in mind. Instead of rushing out a new console they should concentrate on WiiU and their next handheld, especially if the proposed solution is a weak/cheap 200$ console in the middle of this generation.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,410
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You see despite, the big difference between PS3 and PSV there is some kind of cross-development, shared resources going on. Why exactly would a more streamlined architecture than the Cell-CPU cause more problems to create a similar shared ecosystem between WiiU and Nintendos next gen handheld. The handheld can still be designed with their next gen console in mind. Instead of rushing out a new console they should concentrate on WiiU and their next handheld, especially if the proposed solution is a weak/cheap 200$ console in the middle of this generation.
Who said something about rushing the next console ? I dont expect the 4DS to hit anytime before Fall 2015/Q1 2016, maybe even later - and the home console to follow a year later. So we are talking about 3 year for now - thats everything but "rushing" especially.

And the big difference is that not all PS3 type games run on Vita - why do you think Boarderlands looks like that on Vita ? Or we wont see GTA/RDR Open world games on Vita with the same graphical fidelity of PS360 titles ? Sony does all they can from a development tools standpoint - still there is a big difference in hardware power and architecture. With 4DS and Nintendos next home console you shouldnt have to worry about stuff.
Its better to have a base system and then up port to a higher powered system, than developing with stronger specs only to somehow dumb down the game for other platforms.

4DS - Base specs for the unified platforms and able to play the titles in 480p/qHD
Nintendo homeconsole/hub - Overclocked version of the SoC, runs every 4DS game at 1080, runs exclusive games as well, cheap

And whats wrong with a cheap console ? We have mobile SoC being able to run Unreal Engine 4 with most of it features.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMcscM_Hogc