Media Create Sales: Week 13, 2014 (Mar 24 - Mar 30)

Apr 8, 2010
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Judging from Puzzle & Dragons they're pretty ok with them.
Honest question :Why is Deep down being a F2P game hold as a negative to it's sales potential in Japan , when games like Puzzle and dragons have clearly shown that they are fine with it ?
Never knew that the PAD is on console...

F 2nd has this promo where the retail copy of the game comes with a rebate code for the digital version on the other console. I bet they're doing lots more digital sales of the game than usual. So the game may actually have sold better than the previous one.
I'm sure it's doing better than the standard 30% digital sales for all VITA games...

The 360 version of Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z sold 323 units.

The best case scenario would be 3.096 units between both versions. If Famitsu is in line with Dengeki it would mean that it is the worst Ninja Gaiden debut. Even Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, Ninja Gaiden Black or Ninja Gaiden Σ Plus and Ninja Gaiden Σ 2 Plus did better.
Infune's magic touch
 
Never knew that the PAD is on console...
It isn't ,but that is not what i was asking .

The original question was: Why is the fact that Deep Down is a F2P game on a console held as a negative against it's sales potential in Japan ?

Games Like PAD have shown that Japan is fine with a F2P model

Why wouldn't they be ok with a F2P model on a console ? (Unless Capcom fucks that up of course .)
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Toronto, Canada
It isn't ,but that is not what i was asking .

The original question was: Why is the fact that Deep Down is a F2P game on a console held as a negative against it's sales potential in Japan ?

Games Like PAD have shown that Japan is fine with a F2P model

Why wouldn't they be ok with a F2P model on a console ? (Unless Capcom fucks that up of course .)
I actually don't think the question was about consumer acceptance, but rather Deep Down's ability to move hardware. Puzzle & Dragons Z was an expanded release of a game everyone played on devices they already owned. Will people buy a game console to play a F2P game? Maybe, if SCE and Capcom push it like SCE and SEGA did to PSO2 on Vita.

More like WiiU and PS4. But probably WiiU exclusive.
Dragon Quest XI will be on 3DS. I wouldn't be surprised to see it get ported to one of the home consoles, but I can't see it starting off on one.
 
I don't know why people think releasing a japanese-centric potential 5-million seller in a console with a install base of 1 million or 2 million will magically raise the install base to 6 million or 7 million. What is likely to happen is that the game will flop hardly and sell less than 2 million, making the hardware install base increase a few hundreds of thousands.

That said, if not mobile, a potential DQXI already being developed will be on 3DS or PS3 (a lot less likely). If DQXI development will not start before mid 2015, it is certainly 3DS. There is a slim chance Vita install base will increase to levels that would allow Sony moneyhat it by 2015, but still very unlikely and the hat would have to be colossal.
 
And thanks for it.

Looks like Sega won't change their strategy I'm the near future, 3DS will probably be good enough for another Mirai game and the next main game will be on Vita/PS3 I guess.

When it comes to Japan and the performance of consoles in general, the question is when the next big device is hitting and for which market they are going. For the 4DS - when will it be released and how long will Nintendo keep the 3DS around. If 4DS or the next Sony portable has the possibly to display games in a comfortable way on the big screen, home consoles might become a niche in Japan.

Looking at the release list it seems that many J-devs are fine with developing on systems with Ps3 level hardware.
I kind of feel that most Japanese development (with a few exceptions inherently) topped out at approximately the PS2 level.

The PS2 came out, then the platforms that really got support were the DS, PSP, 3DS, and Wii, which were all approximately around the PS2 level or lower, and on the Vita and PS3, most games feel like uprezzed PS2 games with a few extra flourishes.

To an extent this makes sense given that if you have to live off of selling 100-400K copies for the vast majority of games, how much can you realistically afford to do, and given your competition in the local market, how much pressure do you have to really try and push things.

It's also a level of development that seems to cause older style Japanese development processes less trouble, as we didn't really see developers implode until they were trying to make higher end PS3 titles.

Even on smartphones that seems to be about the level 3D games top out.

If I had to guess, I would say that with the 4DS, most things will take the Vita approach and look like lower end PS3 titles/uprezzed PS2 titles, even if the system is more capable than that, with obvious exceptions like higher end Capcom titles or frontrunner Nintendo games. That should conceptually look okay on televisions though given the standard a lot of games are launching at.

That is actually my one concern though for select third parties with the 4DS. For series that try to hit near the top of a platform's performance, but don't sell enough to justify investment at a level that resembles a mid range or higher PS3 game, I'm concerned some publishers will just opt to not release something rather than simply release with a lower standard. For example, Square Enix mentioning they wouldn't want to ship a Kingdom Hearts game on Vita because it would be almost as much effort as a console game and at that point why not just release a console game instead (note: this could have been a polite way of just saying there wasn't enough sales potential). Of course, there might be very few series that actually would be turned off by that which didn't stop releasing on handhelds already anyway. That said, maybe it can share titles with the PS4 since I don't expect the vast majority of Japanese developers to really push that platform at all in the same way we get Vita/PS3 titles helping to fill in the Vita's line-up in that cost/sales performance range. I'm not sure there will be another Sony handheld and some devs are getting quite used to multiplatform anyway, so the option feels like it's there. That is assuming the PS4 ever gets off the ground enough to be worth making a notable number of games targeted at the local market for it.

As for Miku, one of the producers mentioned that they would investigate if it made sense to port Diva F 2nd to the PS4 IIRC, so perhaps they'll actually make that version to get repeat buyers and then do super-cross-platform for the next title a la Natural Doctrine.

With regards to Mirai, the production values are way, way lower than Diva F, so I imagine even with half the sales it's still probably considered an attractive release.
 
Mar 17, 2010
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Its funny seeing Yabai sales. The new Ninja Gaiden never was a big series in Japan, but Tecmo managed to kill even the little sales it had. Unbelievable. And i don't expect nothing different in the rest of the world.

Also, Mario 3D and Wii fit U both got a bump, where Donkey Kong didn't. I simply don't know why this game didn't sold more. It's a great game and the userbase on the wiiu should at least take it to the 100k, but it's strugling as all hell to get it...
 
I actually don't think the question was about consumer acceptance, but rather Deep Down's ability to move hardware. Puzzle & Dragons Z was an expanded release of a game everyone played on devices they already owned. Will people buy a game console to play a F2P game? Maybe, if SCE and Capcom push it like SCE and SEGA did to PSO2 on Vita.



Dragon Quest XI will be on 3DS. I wouldn't be surprised to see it get ported to one of the home consoles, but I can't see it starting off on one.
Fair enough.

Speaking of DD,when is the Beta supposed to come out ?
 

Road

Member
Jan 21, 2008
7,602
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Brazil
sites.google.com
http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/000/833/833193/index-3.html

Fiscal year 2013 is the worst since 2000.

- 2013: 425.0 billion yen
- 2003: 450.1 billion yen
- 2004: 456.6 billion yen
- 2012: 459.7 billion yen

6 years of decline.



Code:
FY 2013 Software units:

3DS	23,279,483
PS3	12,035,201
Vita	 4,089,176
PSP	 3,259,253
Wii U	 2,992,529
Wii	   991,969
PS4	   899,966
X360	   358,164
DS	   343,873

ALL	48,249,614
 
Dec 5, 2012
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Toronto
And being serious here, there is the rise of digital sales.

Unless Dengeki actually counts that as well.


Bigger games keep selling more while smaller games keep selling less or straight up disappearing.
 
May 31, 2013
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Bigger games keep selling more while smaller games keep selling less or straight up disappearing.
Cosmic Queso had a really good post on that in one of the NPD threads.

Basically while major titles continue to sell far more individually than they ever did say 10 years ago, the summation of all software sales is going down as these large game sales don't make up for all the old mid-tier game sales combined with the few big hits

Although that was larger trends WW moreso than the Japanese market although I guess it's happening here as well?
 
And being serious here, there is the rise of digital sales.

Unless Dengeki actually counts that as well.


Bigger games keep selling more while smaller games keep selling less or straight up disappearing.
I believe the overall market is growing, but it's overwhelmingly (well, technically entirely) on smartphones (digital).
 
Cosmic Queso had a really good post on that in one of the NPD threads.

Basically while major titles continue to sell far more individually than they ever did say 10 years ago, the summation of all software sales is going down as these large game sales don't make up for all the old mid-tier game sales combined with the few big hits
Yes, Gearbox was trotting out this data as well, and they're a good example of it with Borderlands 2 at over 8.5 million, an almost unheard of number on consoles in the PS2 era, but not even top 10 or possibly top 20 these days.

That said I'm not sure we've seen that kind of top end growth in Japan post DS, but I'd have to pull a lot of data to be sure.

The market is still polarizing to the big titles though.
 
Dec 5, 2012
20,948
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Toronto
Although that was larger trends WW moreso than the Japanese market although I guess it's happening here as well?
It's happening every where.
I believe the overall market is growing, but it's overwhelmingly (well, technically entirely) on smartphones (digital).
Well solely talking about the dedicated console market.

The mobile market is entirely different one, imo.
 
Apr 8, 2010
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Ill remember you That"never" in a few years.
don't forget MH5... it will be on VITA too!

I actually don't think the question was about consumer acceptance, but rather Deep Down's ability to move hardware. Puzzle & Dragons Z was an expanded release of a game everyone played on devices they already owned. Will people buy a game console to play a F2P game? Maybe, if SCE and Capcom push it like SCE and SEGA did to PSO2 on Vita.
Even with SEC and SEGA's push for PSO2 on Vita, it didn't do that much to hardware number. 500K downloads on VITA but VITA never really took off after PSO2 release. Even if SCE and Capcom pushed as hard or even harder, it is not likely be a game changer.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
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Is vita doing Ok? Sees this thread... Yes
Vita in japan is getting big . Dragon quest in japan is big. In a future its Possible.
Ill remember you That"never" in a few years.
... I'm afraid to look at your posting history.

As for Mario Kart 8 it's the first title that looks to me it will really interest people for Wii U. It won't open only with 100k.
 
Aug 24, 2011
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Finland
The main reason that some hardware is failing is that they suck because they are made by a certain company? Not that the market for hardware shrunk more than 50% in 6 years and obviously some will lose more than the others, but everybody is losing?
Well Nintendo and Sony share part of the blame for that decline. Nintendo completely dropped the ball with WiiU and overpriced 3DS during launch. Sony never supported Vita with enough software and with PS4 it seems they don't frankly care about Japanese market. Add mobile boom to this and you got huge decline. Even worldwide market is in decline and yet PS4 is breaking all kinds of records. Good products with good software support sell.
 
I think the digital entertainment market (sans gaming) is stealing more than smartphone games.
That's possible as well, but just in terms of "the Japanese game industry" it is actually something on the up-and-up if we take smartphones gaming into account, and I feel that's definitely having some impact on the traditional realm even if there is loss to people being more entertained watching a movie on their smartphone on the train than playing a Vita game.
 
May 19, 2005
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Vita could get to 20 million if a blockbuster title came out which everyone started copying similar to MH. Unfortunately I doubt it will happen.
It took PSP nearly 10 years to get there (in more favourable market conditions) and selling at a much faster rate than the Vita even before the MH phenom. 20 million is crazy high. Very few systems get there.