Media Create Sales: Week 15, 2014 (Apr 07 - Apr 13)

Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
520
Norway
Not allowed to post pics from there, I see :)
You could rehost it to a different site. I think that site (if it's an image hosting site) would swap old names so older threads would be filled with porn.
As I said, my problem with ports is that I doubt the original game would exist if only on mobile. When you have nothing left to port, you have to make brand new games and that's the complicated part. Sure, there are a lot of funny games on phones (I'm actually having a lot of fun with Smash Hit or 2048) but those are 5 minutes games I check sometimes. But for great games ? I have yet to see one.
Most portable games were short and designed to be played in short chunks. Big "console like" games is exactly what was used as a reason the PSP couldn't get close to DS numbers.
 
Jan 5, 2012
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If you can prove there's a market for these kinds of games in the mobile arena, port or no, eventually the original games will come. So while I think you're right, I don't think it's inevitable that when we run out of things to port, the market for meaty, single-purchase games will disappear. Either that market will dissipate long before we run out of ports or someone will target that niche specifically with new material. There are too many small developers (which mobile is suited to) who don't want to make Skinner boxes.
But why would anyone bother if they can create next collect something for lots of real money game and swim in profits at minimal risk ?
 
Yes, you've got a point here ! But my main concern is that when best teams will move toward mobile... will they adapt to the mobile market, or release their usual stuff on mobile ?
To be honest I've shared your concern for quite a few years now for a variety of reasons:

1.) There is a strong, consistent decline across the entire dedicated device market. I mean yes the Vita is up slightly this year, but as a whole the trend over the past five years or so has been clear.

2.) The number of notable titles is decreasing across the board on traditional platforms, as has the total number of dedicated device titles released per year.

3.) Mobile, despite being around a while, has had a pretty slow take-up of concepts from traditional games. Starting in 2012 we saw a huge shift toward smartphones over feature phones, and the games on the platforms started resembling what people think of games a whole lot more, but they are currently overwhelmingly "light games".

4.) A lot of notable staff that used to lead various handheld or smaller console titles are now senior staff on really big projects lead by the most notable staff, causing talent consolidation to a few select projects. When these projects often run into large development snags, this effectively hangs up a whole bunch of talent for years on end on a single game that may or may not turn out well, leaving many of their fans to have to go elsewhere for entertainment.

5.) The rising standards by this handheld generation seems to have made a variety of series no longer tenable, especially among publishers who take pride in being near the top of a platform's capabilities. I fear the next transition will exacerbate this even more as we finally have every platform pass the PlayStation 2's capabilities by a notably significant amount.

6.) To be frank, this year has felt especially bad for Japanese announcements so far which is not encouraging.
 
How is the situation of Japanese top grossing charts actually? Is it dominated by PDZ look-like/within the same genre?
While most share the same monetization techniques, they're effectively all light games in a variety of genres.

There's puzzle games, quiz games, poker games, autorunners, somewhat simplistic traditional RPGs, tower defense games, town builders, and the old stalwart "card" "rpg" games that are inherited from feature phones.

The actual genre variety is pretty good, and some of these are fairly fun, but they're largely things you would think of as casual titles or higher end core focused flash titles from the heyday of things like Newgrounds.

Many of them are fun, but they're not exactly a straight replacement for handhelds.

Over on the paid charts, things like Dragon Quest IV, Minecraft, and Gameloft's Spider-Man open world action/adventure game are topping it.
 
Nov 13, 2011
16,595
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0
I sometimes wonder what proportion of the same people, who seemingly loathe the relatively simple fare available on mobile, would laud it had one of the big three of their favor have stumbled upon the new market, rather than our new Apple and Google overlords. If it was Nintendo's Candy Crush and SCE's Puzzles and Dragons would people be more accepting of it? Or is it solely a need for gaming purism?
 
So I'm guessing people are too depressed/disappointing with these abysmal new numbers to even make a new thread? =/

My first reaction was actually laughter at how fucked everything is. I honestly don't know how to react to news this bad, anymore.
Hey, I would, but am I ALLOWED to? I'd just copy and paste what we have and try to format it as Chris would. With the archive links and everything.
 
I sometimes wonder what proportion of the same people, who seemingly loathe the relatively simple fare available on mobile, would laud it had one of the big three of their favor have stumbled upon the new market, rather than our new Apple and Google overlords. If it was Nintendo's Candy Crush and SCE's Puzzles and Dragons would people be more accepting of it? Or is it solely a need for gaming purism?
I think it would depend on the poster.

There are a lot of people who got super pissed over things like Nintendogs and Wii Fit last generation.
 
Jan 11, 2012
16,582
3
0
You could rehost it to a different site. I think that site (if it's an image hosting site) would swap old names so older threads would be filled with porn.

Most portable games were short and designed to be played in short chunks. Big "console like" games is exactly what was used as a reason the PSP couldn't get close to DS numbers.

But with mobile, they've found to be even shorter. Most portable games were short as you said, but since the Gameboy, you had full fledged RPG such as Pokémon.



To be honest I've shared your concern for quite a few years now for a variety of reasons:

1.) There is a strong, consistent decline across the entire dedicated device market. I mean yes the Vita is up slightly this year, but as a whole the trend over the past five years or so has been clear.

2.) The number of notable titles is decreasing across the board on traditional platforms, as has the total number of dedicated device titles released per year.

3.) Mobile, despite being around a while, has had a pretty slow take-up of concepts from traditional games. Starting in 2012 we saw a huge shift toward smartphones over feature phones, and the games on the platforms started resembling what people think of games a whole lot more, but they are currently overwhelmingly "light games".

4.) A lot of notable staff that used to lead various handheld or smaller console titles are now senior staff on really big projects lead by the most notable staff, causing talent consolidation to a few select projects. When these projects often run into large development snags, this effectively hangs up a whole bunch of talent for years on end on a single game that may or may not turn out well, leaving many of their fans to have to go elsewhere for entertainment.

5.) The rising standards by this handheld generation seems to have made a variety of series no longer tenable, especially among publishers who take pride in being near the top of a platform's capabilities. I fear the next transition will exacerbate this even more as we finally have every platform pass the PlayStation 2's capabilities by a notably significant amount.

6.) To be frank, this year has felt especially bad for Japanese announcements so far which is not encouraging.

For the 1), yes you're right, there's a huge decline in hardware sale in Japan. As for Vita being up this year... it couldn't have done worse than last years to be fair.

For the rest, sure hardware capabilities have been really improved on mobile, but yet, controls remains the same, that's a reason why the Japanese devs will adapt to that, because they want to sell games without splitting the market to gamepad owners.

For dedicated devices, sure, they've been over PS2 capabilities, but I think it's not a reason for some japanese devs to stop aiming PS2 capabilites. Nothing prevent them to aim for that standard, and use the remaining power for great IQ or framerate.
 
Mar 19, 2009
51,003
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0
Toronto, Canada
I sometimes wonder what proportion of the same people, who seemingly loathe the relatively simple fare available on mobile, would laud it had one of the big three of their favor have stumbled upon the new market, rather than our new Apple and Google overlords. If it was Nintendo's Candy Crush and SCE's Puzzles and Dragons would people be more accepting of it? Or is it solely a need for gaming purism?
There would definitely be derision if those companies devolved their lineup into featuring almost exclusively "light" gameplay content. Companies like Konami, and iOSquare Enix are hitting that point.
 
May 27, 2010
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I sometimes wonder what proportion of the same people, who seemingly loathe the relatively simple fare available on mobile, would laud it had one of the big three of their favor have stumbled upon the new market, rather than our new Apple and Google overlords. If it was Nintendo's Candy Crush and SCE's Puzzles and Dragons would people be more accepting of it? Or is it solely a need for gaming purism?
You don't have to wonder, just look how people reacted to Nintendo going casual with the Wii and the DS.
 
For dedicated devices, sure, they've been over PS2 capabilities, but I think it's not a reason for some japanese devs to stop aiming PS2 capabilites. Nothing prevent them to aim for that standard, and use the remaining power for great IQ or framerate.
This isn't a concern for most developers, but I do think it's a concern for publishers like Capcom and Square Enix who have seen some of the broadest reduction in terms of what they're delivering.

I don't expect it to stop Atlus or Marvelous or anyone like that, whereas someone like Capcom might choose to can two handheld games in favor of throwing more staff at Monster Hunter 5 or 6.
 
Nov 13, 2011
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I think it would depend on the poster.

There are a lot of people who got super pissed over things like Nintendogs and Wii Fit last generation.
I don't know. Personally I just don't see the reason for abhorrence. I don't really play many games on mobile, but I can see the appeal to certain market segments and don't really see anything that wrong with that.

Perhaps it's because I don't yet feel the mobile market encroaching on my preferred vehicles of gaming (console and PC) that I don't feel the abhorrence towards them.

And besides, Candy Crack can actually be pretty fun.
You don't have to wonder, just look how people reacted to Nintendo going casual with the Wii and the DS.
I've seen people react positively and negatively; praise, defend and deride. Call it a masterstroke. Point to the profits in something akin to pride.

I don't see that generally with mobile. And I'm just curious how much of it is from people feeling they have no skin in the game, so to speak.
 
I don't know. Personally I just don't see the reason for abhorrence. I don't really play many games on mobile, but I can see the appeal to certain market segments and don't really see anything that wrong with that.

Perhaps it's because I don't yet feel the mobile market encroaching on my preferred vehicles of gaming (console and PC) that I don't feel the abhorrence towards them.

And besides, Candy Crack can actually be pretty fun.
If you're asking if I feel people who take mobile as some kind of personal insult as king of crazy, the answer is yes.

There's a reason things have shifted over to mobile in Japan and it's not really mobile's fault.

The core cause here is the users that stopped buying things on handhelds and started playing mobile instead because it fit their lifestyle and/or taste better.

Now, if Apple was sitting there and bribing publishers to stop making handheld games and shift their resources to mobile, yeah I could see some reason for being upset at them, but as it stands this is really a consumer driven market change and the fact that traditional publishers feel the need to get in this market despite not always having the skillset is a reflection of just how strongly consumer preference has changed.

We had this same thing happen when Japan first moved from consoles to handhelds and handhelds would often receive tons of hate poured upon them for taking games away from consoles, but frankly that wasn't really the fault of handhelds at the time either.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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I sometimes wonder what proportion of the same people, who seemingly loathe the relatively simple fare available on mobile, would laud it had one of the big three of their favor have stumbled upon the new market, rather than our new Apple and Google overlords. If it was Nintendo's Candy Crush and SCE's Puzzles and Dragons would people be more accepting of it? Or is it solely a need for gaming purism?
Depends on how much of a fanboy said poster is.
 
Dec 8, 2008
35,663
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England
I don't know. Personally I just don't see the reason for abhorrence. I don't really play many games on mobile, but I can see the appeal to certain market segments and don't really see anything that wrong with that.

Perhaps it's because I don't yet feel the mobile market encroaching on my preferred vehicles of gaming (console and PC) that I don't feel the abhorrence towards them.

And besides, Candy Crack can actually be pretty fun.
The mobile market has crushed my preferred vehicles (handhelds), but I just accept it. People don't want the device that I want, and there's nothing I can do about that. Sure, I'd prefer a world where the Vita was a raging success and R* made the GTA Anniversary titles for that instead, but that ain't the world we live in.

I find it easier to cherry pick and enjoy good mobile games than to sit like some sort of gaming King Canute as the mobile waves roll over my feet.


...actually, I guess I am the King Canute in that analogy, but you know what I mean.
 
Jun 27, 2013
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The actual genre variety is pretty good, and some of these are fairly fun, but they're largely things you would think of as casual titles or higher end core focused flash titles from the heyday of things like Newgrounds.

Many of them are fun, but they're not exactly a straight replacement for handhelds.

Over on the paid charts, things like Dragon Quest IV, Minecraft, and Gameloft's Spider-Man open world action/adventure game are topping it.
At least there is genre variety which is a good thing.

More on that "mobile not a straight replacement for handhelds", I think it have to do with the very nature of mobile games. Mobile games are essentially time-wasting service l. As long as it generate money, they wouldn't changed it. Sure there maybe big patch of content, but those mostly isn't essential unless the game doing really bad. This type of mobile games is ad infinitum, playing the same thing over and over again. The last part, is one of the reasons why people on gaf being sceptical over mobile games.

Well, since it seems many developers move their veteran talent to mobile games, is that there is hope for mobile games? It's like written earlier that will these talents produce traditional paid games which their excels at designing them or will they adapted to game as time waster service? I guess considering the revenue the latter has generated, the choice is obvious.
 
Apr 14, 2011
10,164
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635
really ?
New Media Create thread not up yet?
Code:
1- [3DS] Yokai Watch (Level-5, 07/11/13) – 34,690 (754,910)
2- [PS3] 3rd Super Robot Wars Z: Jigoku Hen (Bandai Namco, 04/10/14) – 31,724 (174,156)
3- [PS4] Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (Square Enix, 04/14/14) – 31,326 (New)
4- [3DS] Ace Attorney 123: Wright Selection (04/17/14, Capcom) – 26,925 (New)
5- [3DS] Mario Party: Island Tour (Nintendo, 03/20/14) – 18,848 (304,835)
6- [PSV] 3rd Super Robot Wars Z: Jigoku Hen (Bandai Namco, 04/10/14) – 17,755 (145,991)
7- [3DS] Wagamama Fashion Girls Mode Yokubari Sengen! Tokimeki Up! (Nintendo, 04/17/14) – 12,315 (New)
8- [PSP] Juusanshi Engi Engetsu Sangokuden 2 (Idea Factory, 04/17/14) – 8,499 (New)
9- [3DS] Meitantei Conan: Phantom Kyoushikyoku (Bandai Namco, 04/17/14) – 8,336 (New)
10- [PS3] Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes (Konami, 03/20/14) – 8,018 (198,054)
 
Jun 5, 2013
8,808
0
340
New York, NY
Oh wow, totally forgot this was the week of ARR on PS4. Is there officially no more "Japan-centric" titles with a release date for the remainder of the year on PS4? If so, the coming 3-4 weeks will really give us the bottom of the barrel baseline for PS4 numbers.
 
Dec 8, 2013
729
0
330
Code:
[B]Hardware Sales[/B] (followed by last week’s sales)
PlayStation Vita – 17,905 (24,078)
PlayStation 4 – 14,396 (13,034)
3DS LL – 14,023 (17,291)
PlayStation 3 – 6,468 (7,305)
3DS – 5,920 (6,271)
Wii U – 5,204 (5,512)
PSP – 2,094 (2,027)
PlayStation Vita TV – 1,133 (1,220)
Xbox 360 – 240 (229)
Sony Rules! :)
 
Nov 13, 2011
16,595
0
0
Interesting responses, thanks.

Playing devil's advocate against myself for a moment. There is the argument made that, as these devices are attracting a lot of the younger audience - children, teens - that bodes poorly for the industry as a whole. As these audiences used to game on dedicated devices that essentially served as an entry into the gaming market. While the new simple interactive entertainment they gain from mobile devices won't lead to eventual "core" gaming uptake as adults.

I'm not sure how valid the underlying two premises (that handhelds serve as entry to "lifelong gaming", that mobile cannot serve similarly as entry to gaming) are though.

Do people think the 10 year old boy playing Candy Crush, for instance, will ultimately always be satisfied gaming on non-dedicated mobile devices?
 
Nov 4, 2012
15,052
0
0
I sometimes wonder what proportion of the same people, who seemingly loathe the relatively simple fare available on mobile, would laud it had one of the big three of their favor have stumbled upon the new market, rather than our new Apple and Google overlords. If it was Nintendo's Candy Crush and SCE's Puzzles and Dragons would people be more accepting of it? Or is it solely a need for gaming purism?
Does everyone with a distaste for mobile favour a particular one of the big three?

Working on it. It's harder than I thought, I gotta do every single bit one at a time. I guess Chris has placeholder names and such at the ready each week.
I had assumed that Chris' threads involved some degree of automation.
 
Dec 5, 2012
20,948
0
0
Toronto
I hate most mobile games because they are simple and lack much depth. Then there is the fact many of them try to be pay-2-play and not F2P. They also don't respect people's times.

The good ones are generally bad ports of dedicated console games (there are some good ports) or based on them (Rayman Jungle Run). The genres are so limited due to its poor control scheme. And I don't want to carry around a big accessory to play stuff properly when using it somewhere other than my home.

The simplicity is okay for Mobile, but the fact that pubs/devs are going towards that disappoints me, but I know there is money that can be made in that market, so it is inevitable that people are going towards it. And I know that most people already own smartphones so it is much more convenient to use that instead of buying a handheld.
 
Jun 5, 2013
8,808
0
340
New York, NY
Perhaps, though isn't Watch Dogs rather anticipated in Japan?
I hope so. Seems like the system is just barely tooting along on a meager handful of games. Props to Sony proper for laying out the schedule very strategically, but shame on them for not having nearly enough software in total ready for the system.
Code:
[B]Hardware Sales[/B] (followed by last week’s sales)
PlayStation Vita – 17,905 (24,078)
PlayStation 4 – 14,396 (13,034)
3DS LL – 14,023 (17,291)
PlayStation 3 – 6,468 (7,305)
3DS – 5,920 (6,271)
Wii U – 5,204 (5,512)
PSP – 2,094 (2,027)
PlayStation Vita TV – 1,133 (1,220)
Xbox 360 – 240 (229)
Sony Rules! :)
This is like having your house burn down and then being happy to find one doll made it out sort of of, all things considered. It's a nice distraction, but indicative of a much more serious problem (namely the Japanese traditional gaming market).
 
Jun 5, 2013
8,808
0
340
New York, NY
I hate most mobile games because they are simple and lack much depth. Then there is the fact many of them try to be pay-2-play and not F2P. They also don't respect people's times.

The good ones are generally bad ports of dedicated console games (there are some good ports) or based on them (Rayman Jungle Run). The genres are so limited due to its poor control scheme. And I don't want to carry around a big accessory to play stuff properly when using it somewhere other than my home.

The simplicity is okay for Mobile, but the fact that pubs/devs are going towards that disappoints me, but I know there is money that can be made in that market, so it is inevitable that people are going towards it. And I know that most people already own smartphones so it is much more convenient to use that instead of buying a handheld.
Yup, this is my biggest complaint. If controller support was mandated across the board, and lead to more complex game design, I wouldn't be too bummed about the slide to mobile. I would be mildly irritated that we're "regressing" in terms of hardware power, but it wouldn't be something that a few more years of tech development wouldn't overcome. The lack of universal controller support really waters down the whole experience and medium to a very inflexible subset of genres and gameplay mechanics.
 
Aug 21, 2013
22,649
0
0
Code:
[B]Hardware Sales[/B] (followed by last week’s sales)
PlayStation Vita – 17,905 (24,078)
PlayStation 4 – 14,396 (13,034)
3DS LL – 14,023 (17,291)
PlayStation 3 – 6,468 (7,305)
3DS – 5,920 (6,271)
Wii U – 5,204 (5,512)
PSP – 2,094 (2,027)
PlayStation Vita TV – 1,133 (1,220)
Xbox 360 – 240 (229)
Sony Rules! :)
last one dead's a rotten egg!
 
Nov 13, 2011
6,585
2
0
Code:
[B]Hardware Sales[/B] (followed by last week’s sales)
PlayStation Vita – 17,905 (24,078)
PlayStation 4 – 14,396 (13,034)
3DS LL – 14,023 (17,291)
PlayStation 3 – 6,468 (7,305)
3DS – 5,920 (6,271)
Wii U – 5,204 (5,512)
PSP – 2,094 (2,027)
PlayStation Vita TV – 1,133 (1,220)
Xbox 360 – 240 (229)
Sony Rules! :)
3DS is on top.
 
Feb 20, 2013
3,047
1
0
UK
Interesting responses, thanks.

Playing devil's advocate against myself for a moment. There is the argument made that, as these devices are attracting a lot of the younger audience - children, teens - that bodes poorly for the industry as a whole. As these audiences used to game on dedicated devices that essentially served as an entry into the gaming market. While the new simple interactive entertainment they gain from mobile devices won't lead to eventual "core" gaming uptake as adults.

I'm not sure how valid the underlying two premises (that handhelds serve as entry to "lifelong gaming", that mobile cannot serve similarly as entry to gaming) are though.

Do people think the 10 year old boy playing Candy Crush, for instance, will ultimately always be satisfied gaming on non-dedicated mobile devices?
I dunno, NES games weren't all that complicated either, I remember being satisfied by just playing tetris. The issue is how will the mobile market evolve from this. If it's going to be stuck with these iap timewasters forever then I don't see the younger generation graduation into core gaming as often.

While I still remain sceptical that mobile devices can be used as a core gamer device, I think that even if dedicated handheld gaming dies out completely and we are left with just mobile, in time, as the market and technology evolves, we'll see it's resurgence on the mobile platform.
 
Jun 27, 2013
13,101
0
0
I hate most mobile games because they are simple and lack much depth. Then there is the fact many of them try to be pay-2-play and not F2P. They also don't respect people's times.

The good ones are generally bad ports of dedicated console games (there are some good ports) or based on them (Rayman Jungle Run). The genres are so limited due to its poor control scheme. And I don't want to carry around a big accessory to play stuff properly when using it somewhere other than my home.

The simplicity is okay for Mobile, but the fact that pubs/devs are going towards that disappoints me, but I know there is money that can be made in that market, so it is inevitable that people are going towards it.
Well to be fair there are many good mobile games out there. I agree on the simplicity of the mobile control scheme as it limits many facets of games (even more on Japanese mobile since most of them designed specifically to be played with one hand). Then how about controller add-on? This is where the thing I hate most from mobile: toxic enviroment. The market filled with clonewares and scamwares. Every game designed to be played without controller in the first place. Then there is Apple price bullshit with their certified controller.

Yes there are some developers serving the enthusiast market, and they are the reasons why SmokyDave always ecstatic when talking about mobile. But a market couldn't stand on the enthusiasts alone and those toxic enviroment prevents these devs to be discovered by the masses.

What I want from mobile is not they must gone, but rather they must change. Those App market filled with fucking clonewares and scamwares targeting whales wouldn't make move games anywhere far.
 

L~A

Member
Jan 19, 2013
12,188
0
0
I think it would depend on the poster.

There are a lot of people who got super pissed over things like Nintendogs and Wii Fit last generation.
Honestly, I got no problem with smartphones games being on the rise, as long as publihers don't forget the other platforms.

Sales of Puzzle & Dragons Z and Dragon Quest Monsters 2 remake have proved that dedicated consoles and smartphones can co-exist without any real problem.

One thing I really wanna see is : Wonder Flick console version. Want to see how different it'll be from the smartphone game.
 
Honestly, I got no problem with smartphones games being on the rise, as long as publihers don't forget the other platforms.

Sales of Puzzle & Dragons Z and Dragon Quest Monsters 2 remake have proved that dedicated consoles and smartphones can co-exist without any real problem.

One thing I really wanna see is : Wonder Flick console version. Want to see how different it'll be from the smartphone game.
Yeah, this thing as well. But I reckon most Japanese publishers think "one platform or bust" especially the bigger ones.
Most Japanese publishers haven't backed out of traditional handhelds, they've simply put all their low yield resources (read development teams of non-blockbuster titles) into the highest growth/highest revenue markets.

For most of them, that's viewed as mobile, unless they're notably successful in AAAA console gaming in the West.