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Media Create Sales: Week 24, 2012 (Jun 11 - Jun 17)

Celine

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Oct 4, 2009
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I can't understand how people can be disappointed with the hardware bump. A 21k increase in units (probably a few k more considering it came from a previous Gundam bump) thanks to a game selling "only" 130k and announced well before the release of Vita, with no hardware bundle, is a pretty good bump.

You can (and should) be disappointed by the overall sales, but the bump is great.
You are right.
Probably those gauge the spike in the absolute scale...
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
23,613
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1,130
Other than maybe Resident Evil, is there really any type of game where there's significant proof that japanese people prefer to play it on a console?
Not that I'm saying the 3DS version will sell gangbusters. I hadn't heard of the game before this thread and don't really know what to think of it from the trailer. Depending on how close the different versions are I could see both bombing equally or do moderately well. There's not that much to compare it to on 3DS though
First i must just say something about EX Troopers. If the game has a great 4 player local multiplayer, then this can be a good bulletpoint for playing it on a portable device. I'm not sure that we know much about EX Troopers yet to say much about it, but i didnt take this into concideration in my previous posts.

About prefering to play on console or not, i dont think that there is any genre in general around it, because there is most likely always some exceptions. Unless you're thinking about game series in particular, then extralite mentioned a few above here where the series usually sell best on consoles.
 

donny2112

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Apr 18, 2005
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I also mentioned the PS3 because of comments people made back in 2007/2008. Even if we knew about FF13 and stuff like that, it didnt stop people to compare it directly to Gamecube and mentioning many times how poorly the PS3 was selling.
It was comparable to GameCube, and it was/is selling poorly.

If someone said that things could changes, there were a chance that someone would give a "no way" kinda answer. Why did people do these comparisons and talk about how poorly the PS3 did if there was a big chance of it's sales pattern to change in a positive way?
Different people. I was definitely comparing to GameCube at the time, because it was comparable to GameCube at the time. However, it was plain to see that the situations were very different for price and current/planned games. I recognized that it was comparable to GameCube then, but basically had no chance of staying comparable to GameCube for the rest of its lifetime. Be careful with the "people on GAF said this and now people on GAF say this" thinking, as it's usually not the same people. That's where the "GAF Hivemind" stuff comes in. There is no Hivemind. ;p
 

Spiegel

Member
Feb 20, 2007
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970
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The bump is great, but completely unsustainable. Sony is going to have to do something if they want bumps like this to have long-lasting effects.
They can't do anything at the moment. They are one year late, they are a lot more expensive and they lost the defining franchise to the competitor. I haven't seen a match this one sided since... well, since never.

You can say that Sony fucked up a lot of things with the PS3 but it's also true that they fucked up even more important things with the Vita in Japan. They planned the Vita like it was going to be the only portable in the market, because if that wasn't the plan, I can't understand any of what they did (and didn't do).
 

Risk Breaker

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Sep 23, 2010
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If we're honest and evaluate by revenue, at minimum, the Vita came very close to surpassing the 3DS this week.

34000 x 25000 = 850000000
61000 x 15000 = 915000000

Note this comparison favors the 3DS given the existence of the Vita 3G SKU and Nintendo's historical penchant for bundling and discounts, which is just a euphemism for an underhanded, selfishly single minded way of acquiring sales and undermining the competition. However, I won't declare this an outright victory for Sony as I want to remain strictly factual. But if you note the top 5 (where 90%+ of the software sold each week resides), four of the software titles belong to the Sony ecosystem. If you factor in licensing fees and other unmentionable soft factors, this week was a resounding victory for Sony.
Thanks.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
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It was comparable to GameCube, and it was/is selling poorly.



Different people. I was definitely comparing to GameCube at the time, because it was comparable to GameCube at the time. However, it was plain to see that the situations were very different for price and current/planned games. I recognized that it was comparable to GameCube then, but basically had no chance of staying comparable to GameCube for the rest of its lifetime. Be careful with the "people on GAF said this and now people on GAF say this" thinking, as it's usually not the same people. That's where the "GAF Hivemind" stuff comes in. There is no Hivemind. ;p
I'm not generalizing at all, just so that is said. I also didnt say "people said this, and now they say that". When i said "people", then i'm only referring to those who said those comments back in the day.

I always try to avoid to take "everyone under one comb" (not sure what the english term is). Because as you say, often it is different people saying different things, i'm fully aware of that (i dont mean to sound rude to you, i just want to point out that what i wrote has nothing to do with the hivemind stuff). Really not sure how else i can put it? Is "some people" better maybe?


Sure, it was comparable to Gamecube at one time indeed. I'm not saying that this was wrong, it was a fair comparison back then i think. But i remember seeing someone saying that the PS3 could end up selling like the Gamecube LTD. But if someone had said back in 2007 that the PS3 would end up selling 10 million units LTD, i wonder what the general respond would be. I'm pretty sure that it wouldnt be in the vein of "oh yeah, that is definitely possible".

Same thing goes for the PSP. I wonder what the general respond would have been if someone back in 2006/2007 said that the PSP would end up selling nearly 20 million units.
 

Dalthien

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Jun 1, 2005
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FF, Tales of, Yakuza?
Tales I'll give you - but there's just no way to say with respect to Final Fantasy or Yakuza.

FF3 DS and Dissidia PSP both outsold FFXIII-2 for crying out loud. Who knows how a mainline (developed and marketed as such) entry would sell on a portable? It hasn't been tried.

Same with Yakuza. The portable version wasn't that far off the first mainline version (not counting Best Price sales) and the PSP spin-off matched the PS3 spin-off in sales. Give a portable a fully developed and marketed mainline entry and who knows how it would hold up with its console brethren. I'd guess that it would be pretty damn close.
 

Lagspike_exe

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Feb 10, 2009
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Wait, Gravity Rush had 30k in digital sales alone? Where's the source of that data? If true, that could potentialy mean Persona comfortabl surprassed the 150k benhcmark.
 

test_account

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Mar 22, 2007
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Wait, Gravity Rush had 30k in digital sales alone? Where's the source of that data? If true, that could potentialy mean Persona comfortabl surprassed the 150k benhcmark.
It is based on Keiichiro Toyama's (director on Gravity Rush) Twitter message that Gravity Rush had sold 100k by the end of March. At this point in time, Media Create had the game tracked at around 70k copies. I'm not sure if it was ever clearified if it was 100k sold to retailers (as in unsold copies) or that digital download sales were inlcuded, does anyone know?

It was also not about 1st week sales only, but during the first ~7 weeks. So it is unlikely that Persona 4 Golden have sold 20k+ digitally in the first week.

Does anyone know what rating P4G have on the PS Store by the way? How many ratings/votes does it have?
 

Truth101

Banned
Jul 15, 2009
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It is based on Keiichiro Toyama's (director on Gravity Rush) Twitter message that Gravity Rush had sold 100k by the end of March. At this point in time, Media Create had the game tracked at around 70k copies. I'm not sure if it was ever clearified if it was 100k sold to retailers (as in unsold copies) or that digital download sales were inlcuded, does anyone know?

It was also not about 1st week sales only, but during the first ~7 weeks. So it is unlikely that Persona 4 Golden have sold 20k+ digitally in the first week. Does anyone know what rating P4G have on the PS Store by the way?
It was definitely a mix of Digital Sales + Sold to Retail.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Feb 11, 2007
21,700
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They can't do anything at the moment. They are one year late, they are a lot more expensive and they lost the defining franchise to the competitor. I haven't seen a match this one sided since... well, since never.

You can say that Sony fucked up a lot of things with the PS3 but it's also true that they fucked up even more important things with the Vita in Japan. They planned the Vita like it was going to be the only portable in the market, because if that wasn't the plan, I can't understand any of what they did (and didn't do).
Right. I do not see any real solution for Sony at the moment, aside from magically coming up with their own new phenomenon on their own, which is very unlikely.

They lost the moment they let Nintendo get a year long head start.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Nov 2, 2007
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Right. I do not see any real solution for Sony at the moment, aside from magically coming up with their own new phenomenon on their own, which is very unlikely.

They lost the moment they let Nintendo get a year long head start.
Not only that but lack of Mon Hun is keeping them out of comfortable second ran but still popular and profitable as hell status.
 

Culex

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Jun 7, 2004
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I had a feeling Vita would do over 30k! Great bump! Let's see if it can keep this up...

3DS is still trucking along. The bump for Pokemon should easily push it over 100k.

 

jman2050

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May 18, 2005
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Are people really using the PS3 possibly limping to 9 million sales when all is said and done as an example of a healthy turnaround for Vita to imitate?

Hell, just doing that would be a monumental disappointment coming off the PSP, and it very well may do worse than that?
 

Takao

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Mar 19, 2009
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Are people really using the PS3 possibly limping to 9 million sales when all is said and done as an example of a healthy turnaround for Vita to imitate?

Hell, just doing that would be a monumental disappointment coming off the PSP, and it very well may do worse than that?
I don't think people are using PS3's actual numbers as an example of what Vita should achieve, but rather the situation. PS3 was pretty dead for a point, and suddenly rose like (a very tiny) phoenix. The situations are a lot different (as the PS3 had a lot of support coming from goodwill on PS2, and 360 multis) but I suppose some are just using it as an example of Sony hardware rising from the grave.
 

BishopLamont

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Apr 22, 2007
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I don't think people are using PS3's actual numbers as an example of what Vita should achieve, but rather the situation. PS3 was pretty dead for a point, and suddenly rose like (a very tiny) phoenix. The situations are a lot different (as the PS3 had a lot of support coming from goodwill on PS2, and 360 multis) but I suppose some are just using it as an example of Sony hardware rising from the grave.
Its not just that the PS3 continued to have more support, its that the Wii also lost support first party and third party (whatever little it had). Even if the Vita did gain more support, I don't see the 3DS' support stopping any time soon. Its a very different situation.

The PS3 is more similiar to the PSP than the Vita, in terms of market impact. They were both solid second place consoles.
 

jman2050

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May 18, 2005
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The Wii ultimately didn't fare much better than the PS3, but that was for completely different reasons.
 

Lord_Byron28

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Nov 9, 2010
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The Wii ultimately didn't fare much better than the PS3, but that was for completely different reasons.
You have an odd definition of not much better but yeah the Wii collapsed because it was basically single handedly supported by one developer who eventually had to move onto other platforms.
 
Nov 14, 2005
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You know i think Sony are going to be just as late to the market with PS4 as Nintendo are with Wii U. Meaning that the sales of the previous console will have fallen off a cliff worldwide. A few games will provide bumps, but the overall sales can't make for healthy viewing.
 

shinra-bansho

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Nov 13, 2011
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Are people really using the PS3 possibly limping to 9 million sales when all is said and done as an example of a healthy turnaround for Vita to imitate?

Hell, just doing that would be a monumental disappointment coming off the PSP, and it very well may do worse than that?
I think the nature of the PSV's hardware will see it's price decline more rapidly without going deep into a loss lead. So at the very least it holds that advantage over the PS3.

I can't recall whether PSP was using proprietary technologies that would have prohibited price drops.
 

extralite

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Jun 27, 2011
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Tales I'll give you - but there's just no way to say with respect to Final Fantasy or Yakuza.

FF3 DS and Dissidia PSP both outsold FFXIII-2 for crying out loud. Who knows how a mainline (developed and marketed as such) entry would sell on a portable? It hasn't been tried.
Okay, maybe Yakuza's first spin off wasn't that far off. But XIII-2 having dropped to the handhelds' installment levels hardly proves that they could attain multimillion sales.

On the other hand, as Versus is a Action-RPG like the PSP games, comparing its sales will give some hint of the PSP FFs' relative success.

FFIII was never ported or remade before the DS game, it was originally released ages ago when the series only bordered on being a million seller. So FFIIIDS for all purposes was a 'new' mainline game. For most people it was the first chance to actually play this one.

I don't see classic FF selling much better than FFIIIDS nowadays. Modern FF could exist on Vita maybe, but the platform itself is weak.

Maybe we'll see a new mainline FF on 3DS at one point. *Very* unlikely, but would be interesting just for seeing how much it would actually sell. So it will never happen though.
 

Dalthien

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Jun 1, 2005
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FFIII was never ported or remade before the DS game, it was originally released ages ago when the series only bordered on being a million seller. So FFIIIDS for all purposes was a 'new' mainline game. For most people it was the first chance to actually play this one.

I don't see classic FF selling much better than FFIIIDS nowadays. Modern FF could exist on Vita maybe, but the platform itself is weak.

Maybe we'll see a new mainline FF on 3DS at one point. *Very* unlikely, but would be interesting just for seeing how much it would actually sell. So it will never happen though.
I agree that a mainline FF on handhelds is highly unlikely, but we'll have to disagree about the rest.

FF3 DS was a remake of an old game. It was in no way equivalent to a new mainline release. Having not been ported before helped sales out, but let's be real - anyone who really wanted to play the game could have emulated it on countless systems through the years.

Honestly, if FFXIII had been made for DS, and received the same marketing and promotion as the real FFXIII - I think it is quite likely that it could have sold near 2 million units, which would have put it right around the same ballpark as what XIII sold on the home consoles. I don't think that's a stretch at all, particularly with FF3 DS topping a million, and a Dissidia spin-off on PSP getting near a million. And I think a FFXV on 3DS could also get up somewhere around 2M. I don't see why Vita couldn't accomplish the same thing if it had the install base - but well, as it stands, that is a rather pointless discussion.
 

Ratrat

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Dec 25, 2008
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Was expecting a lot better for vita. Good for p4g though, the game should have decent legs.
 

Tratorn

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Sep 2, 2011
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Yes, games can't really have legs on a system with such a low userbase and weekly sales of 7-10k.
 
Jan 28, 2010
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I would say:

Bad news : Vita bump is ridiculous and shows there won't be anything to boost sales to acceptable proportion till a loong time.

Good news : A game can sell pretty good on Vita, as much as it would on a way more popular platform. That means devs can make that choice.
If your game needs to sell just below 250k-300k units, that's true. But if your game usually sells more than that, I cannot see why choosing PSVita over 3DS / PS3, at least until the installed base stays below one million units.
 
Aug 19, 2006
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If your game needs to sell just below 250k-300k units, that's true. But if your game usually sells more than that, I cannot see why choosing PSVita over 3DS / PS3, at least until the installed base stays below one million units.
It will be over a million before the year is out... never underestimate the sales of a new colour!
 

Hero

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Jun 6, 2004
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There's no way that P4G doesn't drop like a rock next week. Game already sold to a good portion of the existing userbase and probably just pushed 20k hardware sales this week. Doubt there's much more it can do.
 

extralite

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Jun 27, 2011
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I agree that a mainline FF on handhelds is highly unlikely, but we'll have to disagree about the rest.

FF3 DS was a remake of an old game. It was in no way equivalent to a new mainline release. Having not been ported before helped sales out, but let's be real - anyone who really wanted to play the game could have emulated it on countless systems through the years.
Which system other than PC emulated FFIII prior to VC? And does that really concern the mainstream? FFIIIDS was a new FF for a huge part of the market.

Honestly, if FFXIII had been made for DS, and received the same marketing and promotion as the real FFXIII - I think it is quite likely that it could have sold near 2 million units, which would have put it right around the same ballpark as what XIII sold on the home consoles. I don't think that's a stretch at all, particularly with FF3 DS topping a million, and a Dissidia spin-off on PSP getting near a million. And I think a FFXV on 3DS could also get up somewhere around 2M. I don't see why Vita couldn't accomplish the same thing if it had the install base - but well, as it stands, that is a rather pointless discussion.
Not withstanding the fact that we don't know this to be true, that still wouldn't put handheld FF in the same ballpark as console FF. At its height, for 5 consecutive games, the series sold 2.5 to 4 million copies. The lower sales of FF we got used to since PS2 (which strangely enough saw small to notable declines for all major RPG franchises, FF, Persona, Tales and even DQ) are due to changes in perception towards the Playstation brand, it becoming a more expensive multimedia device that some use more for DVDs or now Blu-rays than for games.

DQ on DS recovered and marked another increase, after only (EDIT:) three decreases over the direct predecessor in the series' history, IV on FC, V on SFC and VIII on PS2. If you want to argue that people don't prefer FF on consoles it would need to be able to perform similar on DS as it did on PS1.

BTW, I agree with you that a new mainline FF on Vita could sell as well as on PS3, IF the Vita were to match the success of the PS3. Doesn't look like it ever will, though.
 

Ratrat

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Dec 25, 2008
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1 in every 5.6 PSV owners already bought it this week.

It's likely even higher when one factors in that there are probably some digital sales.

I'd be surprised if it falls by less than 90%.
I was thinking around 70% yeah, might be a bit unrealistic. Anyway usually when a game releases it drops off the amazon rankings fast.
 

Dalthien

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Jun 1, 2005
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Which system other than PC emulated FFIII prior to VC?
There have been NES emulators on pretty much everything. PS2/PS1/XBox/GC/GBA/Linux/Mac, etc. A diehard fan who wanted to play a 15-year old game had ample opportunity to do so.


If you want to argue that people don't prefer FF on consoles it would need to be able to perform similar on DS as it did on PS1.
No offence, but that's a ridiculous argument. That's not where the franchise is anymore. The PS2 FF games didn't perform as well as the PS1. The PS3 FF games didn't perform as well as the PS1. But somehow the DS would have to perform as well as the PS1 in order to say that Final Fantasy could sell as well on handhelds as on home consoles?

For what the series is today, yeah - I think a fully developed and marketed mainline title on a handheld with a strong install base could perform similarly to the mainline titles that we get on home consoles today. And looking at XIII and XIII-2, I wouldn't rule out a handheld mainline entry even selling better than the home console entries of today.
 

extralite

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Jun 27, 2011
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There have been NES emulators on pretty much everything. PS2/PS1/XBox/GC/GBA/Linux/Mac, etc. A diehard fan who wanted to play a 15-year old game had ample opportunity to do so.
Again, this doesn't concern the mainstream. All those methods are also illegal and not at large important to the Japanese market. A series that can sell in this range isn't much affected by the tech savvy segment.

No offence, but that's a ridiculous argument. That's not where the franchise is anymore. The PS2 FF games didn't perform as well as the PS1. The PS3 FF games didn't perform as well as the PS1. But somehow the DS would have to perform as well as the PS1 in order to say that Final Fantasy could sell as well on handhelds as on home consoles?

For what the series is today, yeah - I think a fully developed and marketed mainline title on a handheld with a strong install base could perform similarly to the mainline titles that we get on home consoles today. And looking at XIII and XIII-2, I wouldn't rule out a handheld mainline entry even selling better than the home console entries of today.
It's not a ridiculous argument. You have to ask why even DQ declined on PS2, although it was so successful as a platform. PS3 is even worse in regards to being a multi purpose device, as it was even more expensive and much less successful. Install base does cap possible sales.

And your 2 million for a new mainline FF on DS or 3DS is pure speculation. You don't really have a strong argument to begin with.