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Sales-Age Media Create Sales: Week 37, 2017 (Sep 11 - Sep 17)

Vena

Member
Sep 2, 2014
16,385
0
0
Considering both Monster Hunter teams have been busy with other titles over the past few years, who would have made this game though? Monster Hunter World releasing in 2014-2015 would have meant sacrificing at least one of the 3DS games, if not more. The timing wouldn't really add up either, considering Monster Hunter 4 came out in late 2013.
Well for one, no one *wanted* XX a title that was promised to not exist. Scrap that. Don't go back on your X marketing promise because of greed and organize your resources better. (In some twist of irony, XX also ended up turning into a poison pill for the west and some part of their audience that the whole mess of its handling has burned. Its almost like some weird Shakespearean play for that to come back around and bite them in the ass.)

MHX wasn't made by the MH4/4U team, so why would that be sacrificed (and if they hadn't wasted time making XX, they could have been helping on finishing MHW)? Pull resources from elsewhere for assets, programming, and so on.

MH4U came out years ago and was a half-step entry as well.

I see no altruism, I see a product arriving late in a cycle's lifetime. That isn't when you help a market, that's when you ask the market for mercy or favor regardless of conditions.
 
Jul 1, 2017
586
0
220
We got Puyo Puyo Tetris, Sonic Mania, and Sonic Forces is on the way. Future holds SMT HD and Phantasy Star 2 Cloud. I fully expect plenty of old game rereleases at some point from Sega like they did for 3DS with the 3D collections or what they're doing on PC. Outside a few games not making the jump, their support has been generally normal and good.
I think Maniax will go all out on the switch once all of their small team done with the 3ds.The Etrian Odyssey team already hinted that they are gonna change the platform after they finishes the next Etrian Odyssey game.Do they use the same team for the 3ds enhanced ports like Radiant Historia or Strange Journey Redux?
 

MoonFrog

Member
Jul 25, 2015
4,129
0
265
No offence, but I find this to be unbelievably shortsighted. For one, it's in a third party company's best interest that the market that their software sells to actually stays intact and it's something that they work WITH platform holders to accomplish. To say that it is solely the platform holder's responsibility to keep the market alive is ludicrous, especially considering if the market does not exist, then those third party companies will have nowhere to make money.



Sometimes it's just not that easy, software takes time to develop, especially when you're stretched churning out 3DS games. If Capcom had stopped doing so to make sure a PS4 game was ready for 2014-2015, they would have also been called stupid. Anyway, it's clear what their goal is with Monster Hunter World and I think it's one of the smarter decisions they've made in recent times.



I'm not really talking about "focusing on PS4" because I don't think that's a sensible idea. Actually putting some effort into compelling software that could help said declining market retain a semblance of life is a good idea though, which is really all I'm saying.

Edit: Kyoufu nailed it. Feed both chicks. Putting all of your eggs in one basket is not good business sense at all, even if one of those gives you the best short term gains.
I wasn't talking business sense. I was talking saving Japan. Which is what you seemed to be talking about too.

These companies regularly do things not in line with "saving Japan" that make sense for them.

I listed some business sense reasons below in that post too. Capcom's health doesn't equal the health of the domestic market and they're perfectly within reason to look to other markets.

Edit: toned that down.
 

silpheed-mcd

Member
Oct 30, 2016
462
8
180

Bic Camera lotteries switch preorders, sunday, september 24:



Switch Splatoon 2 (1 store, -5)

Kyushu Kagoshima-Chuo Station Store: 100 switch ( ~ 400 people)


Switch blue/red (9 stores, +4)

Tokyo Shibuya East Store: 100 ( ~ 950)

AKIBA Store (Akihabara): 100 ( ~ 1400)

JR Hachioji Station Store: 100 ( ~ 650)


Gunma
Takasaki East Store: 100 ( ~ 400)


Shizuoka Hamamatsu Store: 100 ( ~ 280)


Okayama
Okayama Station Store: 100 ( ~ 310)


Hiroshima Hiroshima Station Store: 100 ( ~ 340)


Kyushu
Tenjin 2nd Store: 100 (~ 300)


Hokkaido Sapporo Store: 100 ( ~ 450)


Switch gray (7 stores, +3)

Kanagawa Shin-Yokohama Store: 100 ( ~ 710)


Ibaraki Mito Station Store: 100 ( ~ 180)


Aichi Nagoya Station West Store: 100 ( ~ 400)

Nagoya JR GATE TOWER Store: 100 ( ~ 360)


Kyoto JR Kyoto Station Store: 100 ( ~ 270)


Osaka Namba Store: 100 ( ~ 500)


Niigata
Niigata Store: 100 ( ~ 200)



17 stores (+2)

1.700 Switch ( = )
100 Splatoon 2 (-600)
900 blue/red (+300)
700 gray (+300)
~ 8.100 people ( ~ -1.660)
~ 400 Splatoon 2 ( ~ -3.520)
~ 5.080 blue/red ( ~ +1.860)
~ 2.620 gray ( ~ +10)


Last week:

Media-create: 44.052
Famitsu: 38.006
Dengeki: 37,577

15 stores

1.700 Switch:
700 splatoon 2
600 red/blue
400 gray

~ 9.760 people:
~3.920 splatoon 2
~3.230 red/blue
~2.610 gray


This week: more stores (+2), Switch ( = ), less people ( ~ -1660), ~ 4,76 x more people than Switch ( ~ 5,74 last week and ~ 3,91 week before).

September 17:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=249118696&postcount=741

September 10:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=248424833&postcount=813

Goodbye Switch Splatoon 2 bundle.
 

MoonFrog

Member
Jul 25, 2015
4,129
0
265
Put it this way:

Capcom clearly doesn't have great capabilities to put out games currently, illustrated by things like the SFV situation.

Now, put Japan in a vacuum. Ignore all other markets. Say it is Capcom's only market (to make Capcom/Japanese market health tied closer to each other).

Also if we're talking "saving" the assumption is things are in a bad way.

Where do you put MH5?

I think the answer is obviously on a portable.

Now re-enter the real world. Separate Capcom's fortunes from Japanese console industry. They can go mobile, they can spread sales across markets, etc. and now suddenly it makes sense for Capcom to try and break their core money-maker out of Japan and into the world, especially if they think portables and the Japanese market are heading downwards and fast.

Repurpose assets towards a portable venture to recoup short term losses. Build franchise up world wide. That makes sense to want to do that.

But that isn't "saving Japan." At best it is trying to shore up a niche in Japan that is in line with expectations and desires elsewhere as a minor portion of a larger market.

That's my point.

Now, it's kind of a stupid point because it's not like developers whose interests are in line with pushing the Japanese market are doing it "to save Japan." They probably aren't. That's just where their situation finds them.
 
Jul 1, 2017
586
0
220
I will edit.


Bic Camera lotteries switch preorders, september, sunday 24:


Switch Splatoon 2

Kyushu Kagoshima-Chuo Station Store: 100 switch ( ~ 400 people)


Switch blue/red

Tokyo Shibuya East Store: 100 ( ~ 950)

AKIBA Store (Akihabara): 100 ( ~ 1400)

JR Hachioji Station Store: 100 ( ~ 650)


Gunma
Takasaki East Store: 100 ( ~ 400)


Shizuoka Hamamatsu Store: 100 ( ~ 280)


Okayama
Okayama Station Store: 100 ( ~ 310)


Hiroshima Hiroshima Station Store: 100 ( ~ 340)


Kyushu
Tenjin 2nd Store: 100 (~ 300)


Hokkaido Sapporo Store: 100 ( ~ 450)


Switch gray

Kanagawa Shin-Yokohama Store: 100 ( ~ 710)


Ibaraki Mito Station Store: 100 ( ~ 180)


Aichi Nagoya Station West Store: 100 ( ~ 400)

Nagoya JR GATE TOWER Store: 100 ( ~ 360)


Kyoto JR Kyoto Station Store: 100 ( ~ 270)


Osaka Namba Store: 100 ( ~ 500)


Niigata
Niigata Store: 100 ( ~ 200)


This week:

17 stores

1.700 Switch
100 Splatoon 2
900 blue/red
700 gray
8100 people
compared to last week,Is this better or woese?
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
0
0
Week 38, 2017 (Sep 18 - Sep 24)

Bic Camera lotteries September 24

Nintendo Switch Splatoon 2 Set - 100 (1 store)
Nintendo Switch Neon Blue/Neon Red - 900 (9 stores)
Nintendo Switch Gray - 700 (7 stores)
Total - 1.700 (17 stores)

Code:
+--------------------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
|                          |  Week 29  |  Week 30  |  Week 31  |  Week 32  |  Week 33  |  Week 34  |  Week 35  |  Week 36  |  Week 37  |  Week 38  |
| Bic Camera store   (No.) |07.17-07.23|07.24-07.30|07.31-08.06|08.07-08.13|08.14-08.20|08.21-08.27|08.28-09.03|09.04-09.10|09.11-09.17|09.18-09.24|
|                          |+preorders |           |           |           |           |+preorders |           |           |           |
+--------------------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| Ikebukuro Main     (007) |       276 |       300 |       300 |       300 |         0 |       400 |       300 |       300 |       200 |         0 |
| Ikebukuro West     (017) |        20 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |
| Yuurakuchou        (014) |       138 |       500 |       300 |       300 |         0 |       400 |       300 |       300 |       200 |         0 |
| Shinjyuku West     (016) |        40 |       250 |       150 |       150 |         0 |       200 |       150 |       150 |       100 |         0 |
| Shinjyuku Bicqlo   (116) |        66 |       250 |       150 |       150 |         0 |       200 |       150 |       150 |       100 |         0 |
| Shinjyuku East     (111) |        20 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |
| Shibuya East       (008) |        20 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |       100 |
| Shibuya Hachiko    (004) |        19 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |
| Akasaka            (117) |        20 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |
| Akiba              (121) |       150 |       200 |       200 |       200 |         0 |       300 |       200 |       300 |       100 |       100 |
| Tachikawa          (012) |        55 |       100 |       200 |       200 |         0 |       300 |       100 |       100 |       100 |         0 |
| Seiseki            (110) |        30 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |
| Hachijoji          (114) |        60 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |       100 |       100 |       100 |       100 |
| Kawasaki           (038) |       140 |       500 |       300 |       300 |         0 |       400 |       300 |       300 |       100 |         0 |
| Shin-Yokohama      (104) |        40 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |       100 |
| Yokohama West      (005) |        10 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |
| Fujisawa           (037) |        55 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |       100 |       100 |       100 |         0 |
| Sagami-Ono         (108) |        35 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |
| Kashiwa            (035) |        50 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       200 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |
| Kashiwa Funabashi  (109) |        35 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |         0 |
| Ohmiya             (034) |        50 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       200 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |
| Takasaki           (091) |        30 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |       100 |
| Mito               (115) |        21 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |       100 |
| Sapporo            (015) |        58 |       200 |       200 |       200 |         0 |       200 |       200 |       100 |       100 |       100 |
| Niigata            (106) |        30 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |       100 |
| Hamamatsu          (105) |        30 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |       100 |
| Nagoya Station     (033) |        45 |       100 |         0 |       150 |         0 |       135 |       100 |       100 |       100 |       100 |
| Nagoya JR          (120) |        50 |       100 |       200 |       150 |         0 |       135 |       100 |       100 |       100 |       100 |
| Kyoto              (101) |        30 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |       100 |
| Osaka Nanba        (013) |        45 |       200 |       200 |       200 |         0 |       300 |       200 |       100 |       100 |       100 |
| Okayama            (102) |        35 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |       100 |
| Hiroshima          (119) |        30 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |       100 |       100 |       100 |       100 |
| Kyushu Tenjin      (018) |        30 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |       100 |
| Kyushu Kagoshima   (107) |        35 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |       100 |         0 |         0 |         0 |       100 |
+--------------------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| Splatoon 2 Set           |(34)     * |(10) 1.800 |(08) 1.800 |(17) 2.700 |(00)     0 |(14) 2.300 |(13) 2.100 |(12) 1.900 |(06)   700 |(01)   100 |
| Neon Blue/Neon Red       |(**)     * |(10) 1.700 |(01)   200 |(05)   600 |(00)     0 |(04) 1.200 |(00)     0 |(02)   400 |(05)   600 |(09)   900 |
| Gray                     |(**)     * |(07)   800 |(01)   200 |(04)   500 |(00)     0 |(08) 1.170 |(03)   500 |(00)     0 |(04)   400 |(07)   700 |
+--------------------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| Total                    |(**) 1.798 |(27) 4.300 |(10) 2.200 |(26) 3.800 |(00)     0 |(26) 4.670 |(16) 2.600 |(14) 2.300 |(15) 1.700 |(17) 1.700 |
+--------------------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| Media Create             |    98.999 |    89.314 |    61.933 |    87.798 |    22.277 |    69.654 |    50.074 |    45.439 |    44.052 |           |
| Famitsu                  |   102.581 |   105.697 |    69.686 |    77.146 |    22.154 |    85.503 |    32.857 |    47.801 |    38.006 |           |
| Dengeki                  |    93.611 |    90.522 |    57.300 |    76.479 |    43.592 |    80.950 |    48.813 |    37.146 |    37.577 |           |
+--------------------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
 

Oregano

Member
Mar 13, 2013
12,412
3
0
I just want to take a moment to thank all the brave third parties that are so passionate about saving the Japanese market.

They were there when the 3DS struggled early in its life, they were there for Vita, they were there for Wii U and they were there to make sure Switch was success.

Bwahahahaha what a load of BS.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
0
0
Bic Camera left Tokyo with very little stock this time, most systems were sent to cities that had a few weeks to see lotteries.
 

silpheed-mcd

Member
Oct 30, 2016
462
8
180
Too foreigners in Tokyo during the TGS, those switch are for japanese people :p switch will come back to Tokyo next sunday :p

Look, bic camera akihabara this week:

AKIBA Store (Akihabara):~ 1400 people

Last week:

~ 740 people

^^
 

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Jul 21, 2013
46,680
1
665
28
st. louis
We got Puyo Puyo Tetris, Sonic Mania, and Sonic Forces is on the way. Future holds SMT HD and Phantasy Star 2 Cloud. I fully expect plenty of old game rereleases at some point from Sega like they did for 3DS with the 3D collections or what they're doing on PC. Outside a few games not making the jump, their support has been generally normal and good.
I wouldn't say its unbelievable to try again with the Yakuza franchise aswell
 

ggx2ac

Member
Apr 5, 2016
7,164
0
370
More at the link:

Koei Tecmo will release a Nioh Complete Edition in Japan digitally on November 7 for 5,800 yen, followed by a physical release on December 7 for the same price, the company announced at Tokyo Game Show 2017.

Nioh Complete Edition will include the base game and all three post-release add-ons (“Dragon of the North,” “Defiant Honor,” and “Bloodshed”).


Read more at http://gematsu.com/2017/09/nioh-complete-edition-launches-digitally-november-7-japan-physically-december-7#1RxuRyZEdrsJHY4B.99
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Dec 17, 2011
16,592
0
570
I just want to take a moment to thank all the brave third parties that are so passionate about saving the Japanese market.

They were there when the 3DS struggled early in its life, they were there for Vita, they were there for Wii U and they were there to make sure Switch was success.

Bwahahahaha what a load of BS.
Hahahahaha, I was reading this wait SE was barely there for the 3DS slight more there for the vita. Everyone else is just a rollercoaster of poor to mediocre support with the odd reasonable.

You can add in the PS4. To that list as well.
 

ggx2ac

Member
Apr 5, 2016
7,164
0
370

KAORIII

Neo Member
Apr 6, 2017
29
0
0
Seriously, with splatoon, pokemon & AC, switch will easily beat ps4 in japan. And unlike 3ds situation, most of console games made by japanese third party can run on switch. Besides, considering 3DS games like mh, dq & YW, "third part games can't sell on Nintendo platform" is just BS. That's mean, it's a little weird to see japanese third party don't put their games on switch.

But hey, every time I enter this thread, it makes me feel that japanese game industry will die because this game didn't on switch or that game didn't on switch.
This is funny.
 

MatrixMan.EXE

Member
Sep 1, 2014
9,210
0
0
Well for one, no one *wanted* XX a title that was promised to not exist. Scrap that. Don't go back on your X marketing promise because of greed and organize your resources better. (In some twist of irony, XX also ended up turning into a poison pill for the west and some part of their audience that the whole mess of its handling has burned. Its almost like some weird Shakespearean play for that to come back around and bite them in the ass.)

MHX wasn't made by the MH4/4U team, so why would that be sacrificed (and if they hadn't wasted time making XX, they could have been helping on finishing MHW)? Pull resources from elsewhere for assets, programming, and so on.

MH4U came out years ago and was a half-step entry as well.

I see no altruism, I see a product arriving late in a cycle's lifetime. That isn't when you help a market, that's when you ask the market for mercy or favor regardless of conditions.
Of course X wouldn't have had to be sacrificed, which is why I used Monster Hunter 4 (vanilla) to make my point. That game was created by the main team and released in late 2013, whilst the other team worked on X. I'm failing to understand how World could have been made more quickly by the team it is being made by save for them not releasing Monster Hunter 4 in the first place.

Considering this game has taken them 4-5 years to develop, they'd have had to start developing this in 2011-2012 to release it earlier, at which point the 3DS was new on the scene and the team was busy developing Monster Hunter 4. Just "pulling assets and resources from elsewhere" isn't that simple, especially when they clearly have budget and resource allocated to other teams. To have two working on Monster Hunter games already is a lot for a developer of their size anyway.

I wasn't talking business sense. I was talking saving Japan. Which is what you seemed to be talking about too.

These companies regularly do things not in line with "saving Japan" that make sense for them.

I listed some business sense reasons below in that post too. Capcom's health doesn't equal the health of the domestic market and they're perfectly within reason to look to other markets.

Edit: toned that down.
I don't know why you're telling me this though? At no point did I even suggest that they're not within reason to look at other markets. You've clearly interpreted what I've said as "they should just focus on the PS4 to try and 'save Japan'". That isn't what I said.

I'm saying that as a software company, it shouldn't be considered stupid for them to supplement their line up with software that may help sustain a market that has potential to prove lucrative. Same goes for other 3rd party developers in Japan.

That can't be possible, I just read earlier today that Capcom is selflessly trying to save the Japanese industry.
Nice strawman.
 

fortunato

Banned
Jun 14, 2017
284
0
0
Of course X wouldn't have had to be sacrificed, which is why I used Monster Hunter 4 (vanilla) to make my point. That game was created by the main team and released in late 2013, whilst the other team worked on X. I'm failing to understand how World could have been made more quickly by the team it is being made by save for them not releasing Monster Hunter 4 in the first place.

Considering this game has taken them 4-5 years to develop, they'd have had to start developing this in 2011-2012 to release it earlier, at which point the 3DS was new on the scene and the team was busy developing Monster Hunter 4. Just "pulling assets and resources from elsewhere" isn't that simple, especially when they clearly have budget and resource allocated to other teams. To have two working on Monster Hunter games already is a lot for a developer of their size anyway.
The main issue is that Capcom has spent a considerable amount of internal resources in developing what is basically a highly risky project. Such a project could have been perfectly reasonable if Capcom had something to fall on. Companies take risks when they can afford to, or when they are so desperate that they don't know what to do next.

The fact is, Capcom mobile gaming division is struggling, and the vast majority of internal IPs is underperforming (Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Dead Rising). On the one hand PS4 is selling not-so-great in Japan hence World must succeed in a big way in Western markets to sell as well as previous entries (or to sell well in general terms). On the other hand, Monster Hunter is not very popular in Western markets (it's been a 1m IP, so a relatively niche one) meaning that World must be a breakout hit for the franchise. The problem is, World is the only game in the franchise right now: it is the next mainline entry, and it is treated as such.

There is the risk to alienate the handheld Japanese fanbase and then be too late to attract them again (as they were able to do on 3DS) if World fails or underperforms according to internal expectations. When Tri released on Wii, the performance was not that great (e.g., overshipping); Capcom, though, had Portable 3rd ready in the pipeline. On 3DS, they were able to test whether the userbase was ready for a game, and 3G showed that the interest was there.

World is a vital entry for the franchise: if it succeeds, Monster Hunter can keep going on home consoles and PC, and perhaps can coexist with portable, more traditional, entries (there are synergies such that the popularity spreads over spin-offs/alternative entries). That's a big "if", though. If, instead, World performs poorly, Capcom has wasted 4-5 years betting everything on a dead (or simply sick) horse (World marketing campaign is pretty big), given the circumstances. Further, adding the risk of not being able to re-capture the audience that bought and loved the franchise for many years on handheld devices.

In my opinion, Capcom should have reassured the "portable" fanbase while betting on World. That is, instead of releasing a late porting of XX on Switch, a simultaneous release would have helped (MH XX Switch as a launch game), or a slightly expanded version, or even a MH4G HD.
 

MatrixMan.EXE

Member
Sep 1, 2014
9,210
0
0
The main issue is that Capcom has spent a considerable amount of internal resources in developing what is basically a highly risky project. Such a project could have been perfectly reasonable if Capcom had something to fall on. Companies take risks when they can afford to, or when they are so desperate that they don't know what to do next.

The fact is, Capcom mobile gaming division is struggling, and the vast majority of internal IPs is underperforming (Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Dead Rising). On the one hand PS4 is selling not-so-great in Japan hence World must succeed in a big way in Western markets to sell as well as previous entries (or to sell well in general terms). On the other hand, Monster Hunter is not very popular in Western markets (it's been a 1m IP, so a relatively niche one) meaning that World must be a breakout hit for the franchise. The problem is, World is the only game in the franchise right now: it is the next mainline entry, and it is treated as such.

There is the risk to alienate the handheld Japanese fanbase and then be too late to attract them again (as they were able to do on 3DS) if World fails or underperforms according to internal expectations. When Tri released on Wii, the performance was not that great (e.g., overshipping); Capcom, though, had Portable 3rd ready in the pipeline. On 3DS, they were able to test whether the userbase was ready for a game, and 3G showed that the interest was there.

World is a vital entry for the franchise: if it succeeds, Monster Hunter can keep going on home consoles and PC, and perhaps can coexist with portable, more traditional, entries (there are synergies such that the popularity spreads over spin-offs/alternative entries). That's a big "if", though. If, instead, World performs poorly, Capcom has wasted 4-5 years betting everything on a dead (or simply sick) horse (World marketing campaign is pretty big), given the circumstances. Further, adding the risk of not being able to re-capture the audience that bought and loved the franchise for many years on handheld devices.

In my opinion, Capcom should have reassured the "portable" fanbase while betting on World. That is, instead of releasing a late porting of XX on Switch, a simultaneous release would have helped (MH XX Switch as a launch game), or a slightly expanded version, or even a MH4G HD.
I`ll say this much, just because Capcom hasn`t publicly `reassured` a certain group that more Monster Hunter is coming their way, doesn`t mean it`s going to happen. They've made some odd decisions over the past few years, but completely abandoning their domestic market is not and will not be one of them. All of this hysteria will look kind of silly in a few years time.

Also why would MH4G HD make more sense than a HD version of the latest game in the series?...

Edit: Forgot to add - I`m in the camp that thinks that releasing the XX Switch port months after the 3DS ver. was legitimately ridiculous on Capcom`s behalf. However, the fact that the port exists in the first place should make it abundantly clear that Capcom does not plan to entirely abandon portable systems and their domestic market and actually speaks louder than them going up on stage and promising a few hysterical fans on the internet that Monster Hunter will continue on Switch in some shape or form. Expecting them to announce another game whilst they`re leading up to the launch of MH World is unrealistic.
 

fortunato

Banned
Jun 14, 2017
284
0
0
I`ll say this much, just because Capcom hasn`t publicly `reassured` a certain group that more Monster Hunter is coming their way, doesn`t mean it`s going to happen. They've made some odd decisions over the past few years, but completely abandoning their domestic market is not and will not be one of them. All of this hysteria will look kind of silly in a few years time.
Does it matter at the end? It's hard to say.

This is what the general public sees at the moment: Capcom moved the franchise on home consoles and PC; the company is promoting very aggressively this entry as the new Monster Hunter (marketing budget must be huge). Capcom developed a rushed version of a not-so-beloved entry for the handheld market (with a localization nowhere to be seen). Given the effort to develop (4-5 years you said?) and promote World, Capcom made a clear statement that they are going after the PS4 audience (i.e., they didn't develop World to be the only home console entry).

The point is that Capcom didn't say they abandoned the handheld/domestic market. But they did imply it was an afterthought. That might be enough to lose confidence and consumers.

Also why would MH4G HD make more sense than a HD version of the latest game in the series?...
I don't know, it was just a suggestion. I work in business, but not in the gaming sector, so perhaps someone can have a better idea than mine. I just think MH XX HD in August wasn't a sound and reasonable idea to begin with and sales show.

Edit: Forgot to add - I`m in the camp that thinks that releasing the XX Switch port months after the 3DS ver. was legitimately ridiculous on Capcom`s behalf. However, the fact that the port exists in the first place should make it abundantly clear that Capcom does not plan to entirely abandon portable systems and their domestic market and actually speaks louder than them going up on stage and promising a few hysterical fans on the internet that Monster Hunter will continue on Switch in some shape or form. Expecting them to announce another game whilst they`re leading up to the launch of MH World is unrealistic.
I didn't say Capcom intended to abandon the handheld market. I just said that their decisions might lead people to think that the handheld/domestic market will not be a priority. Very different situation with respect to Tri/Portable 3rd.

Also, please try to avoid implying there's some hysteria in what I'm saying (or keep referring to imaginary people when talking to me) because it doesn't seem so ;) I've just tried to look at all possible scenarios from a business perspective. I don't care about hysterical fans on both sides.
 

Vena

Member
Sep 2, 2014
16,385
0
0
Considering this game has taken them 4-5 years to develop, they'd have had to start developing this in 2011-2012 to release it earlier, at which point the 3DS was new on the scene and the team was busy developing Monster Hunter 4. Just "pulling assets and resources from elsewhere" isn't that simple, especially when they clearly have budget and resource allocated to other teams. To have two working on Monster Hunter games already is a lot for a developer of their size anyway.
My view comes from what I see of MHW, it has a lot of new, shiny assets but that doesn't require the core design team. That's usually what is outsourced or spread amongst different sources. But when you really look past the veneer of "oh this isn't a 3DS game" you start to see that this isn't a AAA-game either, really.

Peel away the shiny coat and look under the rug. Skeletons and model-frames are lifted whole-sale from previous creations and/or repeated multiple times with the Rathian frame being all over the place but even the flagship behaves (and looks) like a reskinned Gore Magala. The hint/leak on the generally moderate number of monsters to set expectations against also doesn't help the perception. The maps while more detailed aren't some gargantuan open world nor does it seem like there are even ten of them. Colors and textures aren't some extreme detailed marvel and in some places aren't even detailed, models are clipping nightmares, there's no full-model collision detection of any sort, hit boxes are giant squares, interaction physics-geometry is still wonky and half-baked, etc. These are all token properties of MH as a whole but they never were AAA properties and are fairly low quality features at the end of the day, so there's been no real improvement here.

Yes, they revamped a lot of movement options, some weapons, and QoL.

This project taking 4-5 years doesn't seem right for what's there. But in the context of other things...

Forgot to add - I`m in the camp that thinks that releasing the XX Switch port months after the 3DS ver. was legitimately ridiculous on Capcom`s behalf. However, the fact that the port exists in the first place should make it abundantly clear that Capcom does not plan to entirely abandon portable systems and their domestic market and actually speaks louder than them going up on stage and promising a few hysterical fans on the internet that Monster Hunter will continue on Switch in some shape or form. Expecting them to announce another game whilst they`re leading up to the launch of MH World is unrealistic.
Tying into a later post you made (pulled it above, pardon my being lazy to tie it to the direct post), XX feels like it was thrown/rushed together much to the chagrin of fans because World was running far behind schedule. Capcom needed to put money in their pockets. And had World come out, say, the year prior in the holiday or there abouts along with FFXV (~3-4 year dev cycle)? Now there I could have maybe seen a concerted effort to try and revitalize the market. Arriving in a dead-ass January globally after an empty as dirt holiday period (in Japan and globally) in 2017 for open-world/multiplayer action releases? That just tells me you missed the boat. (Or they're terrified of Destiny but that's not going to get *better* with the holiday, it will only get worse.)

That and "public reassurance" means diddly, its really more about optics. XX has been a mess for their optics in the west, but it also didn't really do them favors in Japan from being a re-release that was promised not to exist, to being a rushed and fairly boring port for the Switch with little to no marketing. You don't need to reassure people of anything when your PR is this terrible. They want to focus on MHW but this sort of laser-precision really just says you have no capability of broader optics management and... well, for Capcom, that's not a novel idea.

This is the crux of what I meant, and why I said there is no altruism here. There is poor management and arriving to a deflated market far too late to make any real difference.
 

Ōkami

Member
May 10, 2015
3,585
1
0
YSO is expecting first week sales of Fire Emblem Warriors to be worse than Hyrule Warriors, considerably so.

That's Switch+new 3DS, on Switch alone they're not too confident on it outselling Splatoon 2.
 

Vena

Member
Sep 2, 2014
16,385
0
0
I didn't know you were an expert in video game development as well, Vena.
Feel free to elucidate. Point out my mistakes, criticize the stream of logic presented. Bring something of merit to the discourse that both sides have at length been discussing the past few pages.

Don't waste our time with a snip.
 

Fiendcode

Member
Jan 15, 2017
1,602
0
220
MH3 and MH4 each took about 3 years to develop for reference. I'd assume World was similar.

Also I'm not sure if Capcom's ever had a game with a full 5 year dev cycle. Maybe RE4 but that's really more like multiple dev cycles one of which even became a different game (DMC). I don't believe anything else from them this gen on console (RE7, SFV, DR3/4, MVCI, etc) has taken 5 years.
 

MoonFrog

Member
Jul 25, 2015
4,129
0
265
I don't know why you're telling me this though? At no point did I even suggest that they're not within reason to look at other markets. You've clearly interpreted what I've said as "they should just focus on the PS4 to try and 'save Japan'". That isn't what I said.

I'm saying that as a software company, it shouldn't be considered stupid for them to supplement their line up with software that may help sustain a market that has potential to prove lucrative. Same goes for other 3rd party developers in Japan.
What I was picking up on your first post is that the entirety of it is about how Capcom is a brave company trying to stop the Japanese console market from cratering.

Read your post that's what you said. Perhaps it isn't what you meant. It is what you said.

To be fair, you walked this back.

But then there is the edit using the point by Kyoufu to walk back what you were walking back, as I understood it. Perhaps this understanding is wrong (I'm beginning to think it was).

So I recapitulated my point, because the "feed both birds thing" is completely off point, as you interpreted it. It is about Capcom's bottom line, not the Japanese market's health.

Capcom diversifying to keep themselves afloat and prioritizing putting a core driver of portable sales in Japan on a home console where it will have much less impact on that market is not about stopping the Japanese console market from cratering. It is a business decision that makes sense in light of fear that such a market is cratering.

Perhaps you also didn't mean to use Kyoufu's post to re-engage in that argument. It just completely side-stepped everything by bringing in irrelevant considerations that I had already acknowledged as alternate explanations. I was trying to point out how that was just changing the conversation.

Perhaps I shouldn't have been pressed to point that out. Perhaps I shouldn't be posting this :p.

The issue being, idt you can have your cake and eat it too.

Capcom doing MHW is not about stopping Japan from cratering unless the thought was really that Japan would return to home consoles. If that were the thought, Capcom has had plenty of time to pivot. Other companies, like SE, have. It would be a monument to their inability to pivot. This would reinforce the idea that if the Japanese market were their primary concern, they should be making MH5 for the next portable. i.e. it would bring out the fact that Capcom is the big bird with limited resources to feed two ailing children.

I think instead you need to turn to those ailing children and the idea you put forth about Capcom diversifying its income to shelter itself from the death of those children in the future. Capcom's decision makes business sense particularly if it sees the portable market in Japan as dying. Plenty of people see it this way. The assumption is that Capcom is one of them. Given how little they've thrown at Switch compared to other companies, I think this is the case. This would again reinforce my point and bring it in line with the analogy.

I think you need to step outside of the Japanese market for the decision to make sense. It isn't both "good business" and "stop the Japanese market from cratering" hero work. It has the potential to be the former, but it is done in such a way as to guard (Capcom) in the advent of the latter happening.

And it is not like Capcom is obliged to prop up the Japanese console market.

...

Now in the background, perhaps you took the Japanese market to mean Japanese companies, not the domestic market for consoles and software, but the corporate entities engaged in that market. Perhaps that's a misunderstanding between us.

Or perhaps you mean console to just mean stationary console and the thought is someone has to try and prop that up (although, it is not like PS4 isn't already getting a tremendous showing of support in terms of system-driving franchises). I think this might be it, from what you have been saying since. I just disagree that the stationary console market in Japan should be of particular importance outside of business considerations that would prefer Japan be like the rest of the world. If you are simply talking about stemming the tide of decay in the console market, portables is clearly the more important stand to make.

Perhaps I am trading on differing with you with respect to these things.
 

Hero

Member
Jun 6, 2004
14,960
2
1,360
Ōkami;249855612 said:
YSO is expecting first week sales of Fire Emblem Warriors to be worse than Hyrule Warriors, considerably so.

That's Switch+new 3DS, on Switch alone they're not too confident on it outselling Splatoon 2.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would expect FEW to outsell Splatoon 2.
 

Night Angel

Member
Aug 18, 2013
5,877
1
0
Feel free to elucidate. Point out my mistakes, criticize the stream of logic presented. Bring something of merit to the discourse that both sides have at length been discussing the past few pages.

Don't waste our time with a snip.
I mean, isn't that line of thought pretty silly given it takes them a year to give us G rank expansions? Why wouldn't developing an entirely new game on new platforms with new assets not take considerably longer than, say, MHX/XX? Whether or not they used the basic skeletons of old monsters, they've still had to develop all new animations, textures, behaviors, and whatnot. They've also had to make much larger maps that actually connect, monster vs monster AI, new movement systems, and a ton of QOL. I honestly have no clue why the dev time is suspect given the obviously massive increase in workload this title represents compared to the last several 3DS titles.
 

Vena

Member
Sep 2, 2014
16,385
0
0
I mean, isn't that line of thought pretty silly given it takes them a year to give us G rank expansions? Why wouldn't developing an entirely new game on new platforms with new assets not take considerably longer than, say, MHX/XX? Whether or not they used the basic skeletons of old monsters, they've still had to develop all new animations, textures, behaviors, and whatnot. They've also had to make much larger maps that actually connect, monster vs monster AI, new movement systems, and a ton of QOL. I honestly have no clue why the dev time is suspect given the obviously massive increase in workload this title represents compared to the last several 3DS titles.
The G-releases are about market conditions than any metric of dev time.

For a major release, you staff up and outsource many of the things you listed (and I listed before), and its not just the skeletons that I see as familiar. That said, I am not saying "oh they took a decade to make a two year project", I am look at at most a year of dev time and in the context of an unexpected XX being made.

Its not judgments made in a vacuum. Its judgments made in context of a company's behavior. As I said, MHW running a year or so behind schedule can easily explain the "we won't make" XX being made. Maybe its not just a coincidence.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
0
0
Week 39, 2017 (Sep 25 - Oct 1)

new releases

{2017.09.26}
[PS4] FIFA 18 (1)(Ronaldo Edition) <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.26} (¥9.800)
[PS4] FIFA 18 (2)(ICON Edition) <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.26} (¥11.800)
[PS4] FIFA 18 (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| (1)(Ronaldo Edition) <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.26} (¥9.800)
[PS4] FIFA 18 (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| (2)(ICON Edition) <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.26} (¥11.800)
[PS4] Pre-Chara! Daifugou _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <TBL> (Cellnavi) {2017.09.26} (¥907)
[XB1] FIFA 18 (1)(Ronaldo Edition) <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.26} (¥9.800)
[XB1] FIFA 18 (2)(ICON Edition) <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.26} (¥11.800)
[XB1] FIFA 18 (&#949;) _Download Version_ |DL| (1)(Ronaldo Edition) <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.26} (¥9.800)
[XB1] FIFA 18 (&#949;) _Download Version_ |DL| (2)(ICON Edition) <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.26} (¥11.800)

{2017.09.27}
[3DS] Physical Contact: 2048 |New Nintendo 2DS/New Nintendo 3DS| _3DS Download Software_ |DL| <ACT> (Collavier) {2017.09.27} (¥462)
[3DS] Physical Contact: Speed |New Nintendo 2DS/New Nintendo 3DS| _3DS Download Software_ |DL| <TBL> (Collavier) {2017.09.27} (¥462)
[NSW] Arcade Archives: Mario Bros. _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <ACT> (Hamster) {2017.09.27} (¥762)

{2017.09.28}
[3DS] Fire Emblem Warriors |New Nintendo 2DS/New Nintendo 3DS| # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.28} (¥6.800)
[3DS] Fire Emblem Warriors |New Nintendo 2DS/New Nintendo 3DS| (Premium Box) <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.28} (¥9.800)
[3DS] Fire Emblem Warriors |New Nintendo 2DS/New Nintendo 3DS| (&#949;) _Nintendo eShop Download Version_ |DL| <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.28} (¥6.800)
[PSV] Shinobi, Koi Utsutsu: Kanmitsu Hana Emaki # <ADV> (Idea Factory) {2017.09.28} (¥6.300)
[PSV] Shinobi, Koi Utsutsu: Kanmitsu Hana Emaki (Limited Edition) <ADV> (Idea Factory) {2017.09.28} (¥8.300)
[PSV] Shinobi, Koi Utsutsu: Kanmitsu Hana Emaki (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <ADV> (Idea Factory) {2017.09.28} (¥5.800)
[PSV] Shinobi, Koi Utsutsu Twin Pack {Shinobi, Koi Utsutsu: Setsugetsuka Koi Emaki \ Shinobi, Koi Utsutsu: Kanmitsu Hana Emaki} <ADV> (Idea Factory) {2017.09.28} (¥10.600)
[PSV] Heiligenstadt no Uta # <ADV> (Nippon Cultural Broadcasting eXtend) {2017.09.28} (¥5.800)
[PSV] Heiligenstadt no Uta (Limited Edition) <ADV> (Nippon Cultural Broadcasting eXtend) {2017.09.28} (¥7.800)
[PSV] Heiligenstadt no Uta (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <ADV> (Nippon Cultural Broadcasting eXtend) {2017.09.28} (¥5.048)
[PSV] Nora to Koujo to Noraneko Heart # <ADV> (Harukaze) {2017.09.28} (¥6.980)
[PSV] Nora to Koujo to Noraneko Heart (TV Anime Bundled Premium Edition) <ADV> (Harukaze) {2017.09.28} (¥9.800)
[PSV] Nora to Koujo to Noraneko Heart (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <ADV> (Harukaze) {2017.09.28} (¥5.600)
[NSW] Fire Emblem Warriors # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.28} (¥7.800)
[NSW] Fire Emblem Warriors (Premium Box) <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.28} (¥10.800)
[NSW] Fire Emblem Warriors (&#949;) _Nintendo eShop Download Version_ |DL| <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.28} (¥7.800)
[NSW] Forma.8 _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <ACT> (Rainy Frog) {2017.09.28} (¥925)
[NSW] Brave Dungeon + Majin Shoujo Combat _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <RPG> (Inside System) {2017.09.28} (¥800)
[NSW] Picross S _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <PZL> (Jupiter) {2017.09.28} (¥741)
[NSW] Physical Contact: Picture Place _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <PZL> (Collavier) {2017.09.28} (¥462)
[NSW] 36 Fragments of Midnight _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <ACT> (Rainy Frog) {2017.09.28} (¥370)
[PS4] The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel III # <RPG> (Nihon Falcom) {2017.09.28} (¥7.800)
[PS4] The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel III (First Print Limited Kiseki Box) <RPG> (Nihon Falcom) {2017.09.28} (¥9.200)
[PS4] The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel III (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <RPG> (Nihon Falcom) {2017.09.28} (¥6.667)
[PS4] Knack II <ACT> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2017.09.28} (¥4.900)
[PS4] Knack II (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <ACT> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2017.09.28} (¥4.900)
[PS4] Coven and Labyrinth of Refrain # <RPG> (Nippon Ichi Software) {2017.09.28} (¥6.980)
[PS4] Coven and Labyrinth of Refrain (Limited Edition) <RPG> (Nippon Ichi Software) {2017.09.28} (¥8.980)
[PS4] Coven and Labyrinth of Refrain (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <RPG> (Nippon Ichi Software) {2017.09.28} (¥6.980)
[PS4] Genkai Tokki: Castle Panzers # <RPG> (Compile Heart) {2017.09.28} (¥7.200)
[PS4] Genkai Tokki: Castle Panzers (Limited Edition) <RPG> (Compile Heart) {2017.09.28} (¥9.200)
[PS4] Genkai Tokki: Castle Panzers (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <RPG> (Compile Heart) {2017.09.28} (¥6.400)
[PS4] MotoGP 17 <RCE> (Intergrow) {2017.09.28} (¥7.980)
[PS4] MotoGP 17 (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <RCE> (Intergrow) {2017.09.28} (¥7.980)
[PS4] Fallout 4: Game of the Year Edition <Fallout 4 \ Fallout 4: Wasteland Workshop \ Fallout 4: Far Harbor \ Fallout 4: Automatron \ Fallout 4: Contraptions Workshop \ Fallout 4: Vault-Tec Workshop \ Fallout 4: Nuka-World> <RPG> (Bethesda Softworks) {2017.09.28} (¥5.980)
[PS4] Fallout 4 [New Price Edition] <RPG> (Bethesda Softworks) {2017.09.28} (¥2.800)
[PS4] Fallout 4 (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| [New Price Edition] <RPG> (Bethesda Softworks) {2017.09.28} (¥2.800)
[PS4] Kai-ri-Sei Million Arthur VR |PlayStation VR| _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <RPG> (Square Enix) {2017.09.28} (¥3.685)
[PS4] Nidhogg 2 _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <ACT> (Nippon Ichi Software) {2017.09.28} (¥1.500)
[PS4] Forma.8 _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <ACT> (Rainy Frog) {2017.09.28} (¥925)
[XB1] Fallout 4: Game of the Year Edition <Fallout 4 \ Fallout 4: Wasteland Workshop \ Fallout 4: Far Harbor \ Fallout 4: Automatron \ Fallout 4: Contraptions Workshop \ Fallout 4: Vault-Tec Workshop \ Fallout 4: Nuka-World> _Download Version_ |DL| <RPG> (Bethesda Softworks) {2017.09.28} (¥5.980)

{2017.09.29}
[NSW] FIFA 18 <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.29} (¥5.800)
[NSW] FIFA 18 (&#949;) _Nintendo eShop Download Version_ |DL| <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.29} (¥5.800)
[PS4] FIFA 18 # <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.29} (¥7.800)
[PS4] FIFA 18 (3)(PlayStation 4 FIFA 18 Pack) <BUN> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2017.09.29} (¥36.980)
[PS4] FIFA 18 (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| # <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.29} (¥7.800)
[XB1] FIFA 18 # <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.29} (¥7.800)
[XB1] FIFA 18 (&#949;) _Download Version_ |DL| # <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.29} (¥7.800)
[XB1] Forza Motorsport 7 (Ultimate Edition) <RCE> (Microsoft Game Studios) {2017.09.29} (¥10.900)
[XB1] Forza Motorsport 7 (&#949;) _Download Version_ |DL| ()(Ultimate Edition) <RCE> (Microsoft Game Studios) {2017.09.29} (¥10.463)
[PS3] FIFA 18 <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.29} (¥7.800)
[PS3] FIFA 18 (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.29} (¥7.800)
[360] FIFA 18 _Game-On-Demand Version_ |DL| <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.29} (¥5.800)
___

YSO predictions

01. [PS4] The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel III < 120k (average 110k)
02. [PS4] FIFA 18 < 55k (average 45k)
03. [NSW] Fire Emblem Warriors < 45k (average 40k)
00. [NSW+3DS] Fire Emblem Warriors < 65k (average 55k)
 

Salvadora

Member
Dec 11, 2011
26,143
0
0
That would be a poor result for Fire Emblem Warriors.

Lower debut than Hyrule Warriors on a much more active platform.