Support NeoGAF

[Torokil]

Looks like Squeenix made the right call with 3 (2?) versions of DQXI

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Who was FFXV for? Whoever it was for in Japan, there clearly aren't many of them.

Fujoshi?

 

[OfficerRaichu15]

Oh, it did? Any articles/numbers on that? Didn't hear anything yet.

Sold 3.7 Million in Americas in two weeks.
1.5 million Europe first week.

 

[zeromcd73]

Oh, it did? Any articles/numbers on that? Didn't hear anything yet.

Here you go

?

UK sales are more than double X/Y and fastest selling Nintendo game ever
[Week 41, 2013] POKÉMON X / Y (NINTENDO) - 124,000 / NEW
[Week 48, 2014] POKÉMON OMEGA RUBY / ALPHA SAPPHIRE (NINTENDO) - 145,000 / NEW
[Week 47, 2016] POKÉMON SUN / MOON (NINTENDO) ~ 290,000 / NEW
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-11-28-pokemon-sun-and-moon-are-nintendos-biggest-uk-launch

US fastest selling Nintendo game ever : http://nintendoeverything.com/pokem...tory-in-the-americas-3-7-million-copies-sold/

France fastest selling Nintendo game ever. Almost 3x X/Y: http://www.lefigaro.fr/secteur/high...ds-de-nintendo-en-france.php?redirect_premium

Australia also fastest selling Nintendo game ever: http://press-start.com.au/news/2016...est-selling-nintendo-games-ever-in-australia/

 

[cw_sasuke]

Hm. What I'm saying is that people maybe will not want to play a 3DS game in late 2017. I'm not basing this on any statistics or numbers, just feelings. It's an already way too old system for today, and it can only be worse by the time comes. My point is, maybe the 3DS userbase will just go to mobile if the Switch can't manage to keep them. And Dragon Quest XI isn't releasing on mobile.

Are we talking about the same series ? This is a traditional single player DQ game with turns-based battles. The 3DS was already a "old" system hardware wise 3 years ago yet Monster Hunter, Pokemon etc. and co. all still performed. Sun/Moon is selling right now as well, there is no reason why Japan would not pick up a new mainline DQ title for a system with a 3DS-large userbase.

I just dont understand your point - lets just agree to disagree.

 

[jmaine_ph]

FF is not what it used to be in popularity guys. It's just the facts. Maybe it'll have good legs after getting great reviews overall but it is what it is.

 

[random25]

As an IP FF is around persona level in japan then

Not yet. As much as P5 grew so much compared to P4 and FFXV declined hard, Final Fantasy remains to be a level higher in Japan.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Final Fantasy XV with a better opening than Final Fantasy XIII

Spoiler

-2

.

I don't think it's fair to talk about this as just part of the decline of consoles, since the PS4 userbase is about where PS3's was for XIII. The base just wants their PS4 for other things.

 

[z1ggy]

Good question. It seems they tried to please everyone all at once and we all know how that usually turns out.

The "a FF for fans and first timers" screen at the start is embarrassing.

 

[KooopaKid]

Final Fantasy indeed. j/k.
The brand has been damaged badly.
Impressive PS4 sales nonetheless. No one cares about the PS4 Pro in Japan.

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

Square haven't given people a reason to care about Final Fantasy for a long time now so this is a given.
The DS remakes of 3 and 4 sold well didn't they? They really should've continued on with 3DS remakes of 5 and 6 just for brand visibility if anything.

 

[Raylan]

19./00. [XB1] Final Fantasy XV # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2016.11.29} (¥8.800) - 3.791 / NEW

Sales for the XBO version will be -3791 after all the japanese buyers returned it again for a PS4 copie.

 

[hiska-kun]

PS3 VS PS4

PS4 leading

Pokemon Comparison

Well, well, there's still a chance.

 

[metalslimer]

The decline of console gaming doesn't make the poor sales any better. It just gives a reason.

 

[deleted]

Sold 3.7 Million in Americas in two weeks.
1.5 million Europe first week.

Here you go

Woah, nice! I only caught the japanese numbers and they where fine, but worse than X/Y.

Good to know.

 

[Riposte]

The decline of console gaming doesn't make the poor sales any better. It just gives a reason.

A reason some people are overlooking in thinking it has more to do with the brand being damaged, too much pandering, etc.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Square haven't given people a reason to care about Final Fantasy for a long time now so this is a given.
The DS remakes of 3 and 4 sold well didn't they? They really should've continued on with 3DS remakes of 5 and 6 just for brand visibility if anything.

III started at 500K ended around a million, IV started about 300K and got to about 600K.

Seems like after that for better and worse they decided to go original with 4 Heroes of Light and then Bravely Default.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Not yet. As much as P5 grew so much compared to P4 and FFXV declined hard, Final Fantasy remains to be a level higher in Japan.

FF used to be just under DQ and Pokemon in terms of sales volume and popularity. FFXV doing these numbers only puts in slightly above MGS.

 

[Raylan]

You can spin it however you want. FFXIII sold 1.5 million. It doubled FFXV sales. It's a huge decline.

The complete market declined. Home consoles aren't "a thing" in Japan anymore. FFXIII released 7 years ago, in an already shrinking console market. Times are different.
~700k in its first week = good, in the current console market. You can spin it however you want it.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Dengeki Online Sales: Week 48, 2016 (Nov 28 - Dec 04)

01./00. [PS4] Final Fantasy XV (Square Enix) {2016.11.29} - 691,031 / NEW
02./00. [3DS] Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS (Nintendo) {2016.12.01} - 149,956 / NEW
03./01. [3DS] Pokemon Sun (Pokemon Co.) {2016.11.18} - 111,072 / 1,134,584
04./02. [3DS] Pokemon Moon (Pokemon Co.) {2016.11.18} - 99,417 / 1,065,663
05./00. [PS4] Watch Dogs 2 (Ubisoft) {2016.12.01} - 42,738 / NEW
06./00. [3DS] All Kamen Rider: Rider Revolution (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.12.01} - 21,671 / NEW
07./03. [PSV] SD Gundam G Generation Genesis (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.11.22} - 10,905 / 87,331
08./04. [PS4] SD Gundam G Generation Genesis (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.11.22} - 9,535 / 83,959
09./07. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - Welcome amiibo (Nintendo) {2016.11.23} - 9,411 / 25,839
10./19. [PSV] Minecraft: Playstation Vita Edition (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2015.03.19} - 6,700 / 914,444
11./00. [3DS] Digimon Universe: Appli Monsters (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.12.01} - 6,286 / NEW
12./16. [WIU] Minecraft: Wii U Edition (Microsoft Game Studios) {2016.06.23} - 6,067 / 191,229
13./17. [3DS] Mario Party Star Rush (Nintendo) {2016.10.20} - 5,967 / 78,853
14./05. [PS4] Samurai Warriors: Sanada Maru (Koei Tecmo) {2016.11.23} - 5,495 / 32,576
15./06. [3DS] Pokemon Sun / Moon Dual Pack (Pokemon Co.) {2016.11.18} - 5,362 / 321,332
16./15. [PS4] Battlefield 1 (Electronic Arts) {2016.10.21} - 5,012 / 221,825
17./28. [3DS] Sumikko Gurashi: Mura o Tsukurundesu (Nippon Columbia) {2016.07.21} - 4,767 / 80,494
18./23. [3DS] Beyblade Burst (FuRyu) {2016.11.10} - 4,244 / 27,494
19./08. [PSV] Samurai Warriors: Sanada Maru (Koei Tecmo) {2016.11.23} - 4,005 / 17,219
20./00. [PS4] Resident Evil 6 (Capcom) {2016.12.01} - 3,967 / NEW
21./14. [PS4] The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition (Bethesda Softworks) {2016.11.10} - 3,583 / 43,423
22./11. [3DS] Aikatsu Stars! My Special Appeal (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.11.24} - 3,560 / 13,110
23./22. [3DS] Monster Hunter Stories (Capcom) {2016.10.08} - 3,339 / 277,296
24./00. [XB1] Final Fantasy XV (Square Enix) {2016.11.29} - 3,250 / NEW
25./00. [PS4] Resident Evil 4 (Capcom) {2016.12.01} - 3,233 / NEW
26./31. [3DS] Kirby: Planet Robobot (Nintendo) {2016.04.28} - 3,217 / 453,098
27./00. [3DS] A-Train: City Simulator Neo (Artdink) {2016.12.01} - 3,194 / NEW
28./21. [PS4] Dragonball Xenoverse 2 (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.11.02} - 3,178 / 86,982
29./27. [3DS] PriPara Mezameyo! Megami no Dress Design (Takara Tomy) {2016.11.10} - 2,972 / 33,861
30./00. [PS4] Resident Evil 5 (Capcom) {2016.12.01} - 2,873 / NEW
31./37. [PS4] Grand Theft Auto V (Take-Two Interactive Japan) {2015.10.08} - 2,806 / 166,828
32./32. [WIU] Splatoon (Nintendo) {2015.05.28} - 2,782 / 1,456,585
33./13. [3DS] RPG Maker: Fes (Kadokawa Games) {2016.11.24} - 2,594 / 9,438
34./40. [3DS] Dragon Ball: Fusions (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.08.04} - 2,572 / 194,973
35./18. [PS4] Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2016.11.04} - 2,567 / 132,760
36./36. [WIU] Paper Mario: Color Splash (Nintendo) {2016.10.13} - 2,539 / 49,214
37./35. [PS4] Minecraft: Playstation 4 Edition (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2015.12.03} - 2,539 / 135,102
38./25. [PSV] Sword Art Online: Hollow Realization (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.10.27} - 2,489 / 117,759
39./20. [PSV] Fate/Extella: The Umbral Star (Marvelous) {2016.11.10} - 2,480 / 89,860
40./10. [PS3] Samurai Warriors: Sanada Maru (Koei Tecmo) {2016.11.23} - 2,395 / 13,633
41./47. [3DS] Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo) {2011.12.01} - 2,239 / 2,559,531
42./09. [PSV] Code: Realize - Shukufuku no Mirai (Idea Factory) {2016.11.24} - 2,022 / 14,344
43./39. [3DS] Yo-Kai Watch 3: Sushi (Level 5) {2016.07.16} - 1,972 / 655,269
44./46. [PS4] Winning Eleven 2017 (KONAMI) {2016.09.15} - 1,941 / 95,727
45./45. [3DS] Super Battle For Money Sentouchuu: Kyuukyoku no Shinobu to Battle Player Choujou Kessen! (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.09.15} - 1,856 / 36,941
46./30. [3DS] Monster Hunter Generations (Capcom) {2015.11.28} - 1,830 / 2,856,507
47./42. [3DS] Yo-Kai Watch 3: Tempura (Level 5) {2016.07.16} - 1,828 / 620,560
48./29. [3DS] Monster Strike (Mixi) {2015.12.17} - 1,778 / 948,933
49./66. [WIU] Super Mario Maker (Nintendo) {2015.09.10} - 1,706 / 953,305
50./53. [3DS] Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games (Nintendo) {2016.02.18} - 1,700 / 246,545

SOFTWARE

--------------------------------------------------------
| Model | This Week | Week(%)  | FY 2016     | FY(%)   |
--------------------------------------------------------
| PS4   | 717,952   | 55.6%    | 5,428,903   | 28.0%   |
| 3DS   | 488,764   | 37.9%    | 9,107,480   | 47.0%   |
| Vita  | 50,326    | 3.9%     | 2,717,771   | 14.0%   |
| Wii U | 22,716    | 1.8%     | 1,089,291   | 5.6%    |
| PS3   | 9,157     | 0.7%     | 1,018,311   | 5.3%    |
| X One | 1,910     | 0.1%     | 27,860      | 0.1%    |
--------------------------------------------------------
| Total | 1,290,825 | 100.0%   | 19,389,616  | 100.0%  |
--------------------------------------------------------

HARDWARE

--------------------------------------------------------
| Model | This Week | Week(%)  | FY 2016     | FY(%)   |
--------------------------------------------------------
| PS4   | 105,399   | 51.4%    | 1,097,440   | 40.0%   |
| 3DS   | 60,045    | 29.3%    | 902,143     | 32.9%   |
| 2DS   | 17,678    | 8.6%     | 144,358     | 5.3%    |
| Vita  | 16,632    | 8.1%     | 401,483     | 14.6%   |
| Wii U | 4,221     | 2.1%     | 162,988     | 5.9%    |
| PS3   | 613       | 0.3%     | 30,332      | 1.1%    |
| X One | 389       | 0.2%     | 3,552       | 0.1%    |
--------------------------------------------------------
| Total | 204,977   | 100.0%   | 2,742,296   | 100.0%  |
--------------------------------------------------------

*FY 2016 refers to the period from April 1, 2016 through March 31, 2017

Dengeki Online Sales: Week 47, 2016 (Nov 21 - Nov 27)

Dengeki Sales Archive
2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2012 | 2013 | 2014

 

[kswiston]

Final Fantasy indeed. j/k.
The brand has been damaged badly.
Impressive PS4 sales nonetheless. No one cares about the PS4 Pro in Japan.

Japan is not nearly as relevant for Final Fantasy's continued existence as it was in 1995.

I'm sure they would have liked another 500k this week though.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

The complete market declined. Home consoles aren't "a thing" in Japan anymore. FFXIII released 7 years ago, in an already shrinking console market. Times are different.
~700k in its first week = good, in the current console market. You can spin it however you want it.

Why didn't MGS5 have a huge decline? Or Persona 5?

 

[DaSorcerer7]

Time for Square to go back to formula.

 

[kswiston]

Why didn't MGS5 have a huge decline? Or Persona 5?

Persona 4 was still lower-mid range for the PS2, and the audience has greatly expanded since then. Look at the sales for all of the spinoffs and golden compared to what is typically the case for a 300k series.

MGS5 did have a pretty big decline if you are just looking at the PS4 version. There seems to be a portion of the active PS3 audience that is still hesitant to transition.

 

[Raylan]

Why didn't MGS5 have a huge decline? Or Persona 5?

How well did MGS or Persona sell compared to FF?

 

[Lostconfused]

A reason some people are overlooking in thinking it has more to do with the brand being damaged, too much pandering, etc.

Here you go, even if it doesn't include digital sales.

Unless my math is wrong, the attach rate for FF has dropped in half with FFXV as well.


PS4 + PS4 Pro: 3,745,026



3745026/ 690471= 18%




PS3 = 4.276.480

1501964/4276480 = 35%


Attach Rate for PS4: 18%
Attach Rate for PS3: 35%


This would be the number keeping SE up at night...

If it sells less on a console, it's value as a console brand is lower. It's not a reason, it's just a fact.

 

[kswiston]

If it sells less on a console, it's value as a console brand is lower. It's not a reason, it's just a fact.

The value of the brand has been in decline in Japan for over 15 years, so ya, that is part of it.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

FFXV did a bit lower then I expected (hoped), hopefully it can hold on a little better then FFXIII and crawl it's way to 1 mln (with digital it has good chances at this point). The rest of Asia should lessen the blow also, so it will reach to respectable numbers at least world wide.

Pretty good PS4 numbers imo, around what I expected. The performance of the PS4 has been solid all year, 2017 might even be better.

 

[Fdkn]

For reference there were people saying it wouldn't reach 700k LTD, or that a million was totally impossible.

Everybody in this thread knew the decline would be big so acting surprised about it now is a bit weird, but with this result it could reach a million with Digital sales (something XIII didn't have) and that was on the high end predictions.

This doesn't mean this result is good, this is just a sensible reflection on the current state of the market and the expectations we could have.

 

[jj984jj]

Looks like Squeenix made the right call with 3 (2?) versions of DQXI

I doubt they'll cancel the 3DS version, especially after this.

 

[deleted]

Here you go, even if it doesn't include digital sales.



If it sells less on a console, it's value as a console brand is lower. It's not a reason, it's just a fact.

FFXIII-XIII-3 doing that damage. No idea how a brand so beloved can double down on bad decisions for 7 years and hope to come out of it undamaged.

 

[Kagari]

The "a FF for fans and first timers" screen at the start is embarrassing.

It felt unnecessary.

 

[RocknRola]

I think we're all forgetting just how much FFXIII, FFXIII-2 and FF: LR poisoned the well.

2009: Final Fantasy XIII (PS3) - 1,501,964
2011: Final Fantasy XIII-2 (PS3) - 524,217
2013: Lightning Returns Final Fantasy XIII (PS3) - 277,082

(Source: Neogaf, of course )

Those are some massive decreases on a trilogy that was (from what little I know of the 2nd and 3rd game) actually improved with each game and with direct connections (in terms of plot) to the first game. I myself am guilty of that, after the first FFXIII I basically refused to even try the 2nd and 3rd entries, respectively.

And yes, well aware that 2 of those are not main, numbered, releases. That definitely had an impact, of course, but was not the actual cause of the decline. The expectations pre-FFXIII and post-FFXIII are massively different simply because the XIII series poisened the well so damn much. And, to make matters worse, the install base of the PS3 was much, much greater when those sequels released. I'm guessing that's also part of the reason why Versus XIII became XV, to avoid that connection.

Finally, the actual console market was different. Last gen already saw handhleds start to really dominate Japan, this gen just basically confirmed it. Heck, if the Vita is still "alive" today (well...sorta) it owes it basically to Japan it's 5million+ sales.

So while 1.5million vs 690k is always a bad sign and a failure, context does matter. There are several reasons why we reached this number and tbh, SE is guilty of 80%-90%. Even stuff like missing the core appeal the game could/should have to the Japanese market, as some already mentioned, is a failure on SE's part.

Sony takes a small share of the blame for not increasing the user base in time too hehe


That said, let's see if the (general) positive word of mouth the game is experiencing will help it in the West. I kinda doubt it, but SE could have been focusing on a global market with this one. Chances are they weren't though, that would sorta require SE to be competent!

Spoiler

(only sorta joking on this last one >.>)

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

III started at 500K ended around a million, IV started about 300K and got to about 600K.

Seems like after that for better and worse they decided to go original with 4 Heroes of Light and then Bravely Default.

Thanks for the info, I thought both sold a little better than that. I guess the franchise as a whole has been declining for a while

 

[Riposte]

Here you go, even if it doesn't include digital sales.



If it sells less on a console, it's value as a console brand is lower. It's not a reason, it's just a fact.

Is this decisive evidence on why it sold less? The point is more along the lines of even if Final Fantasy was doing everything you wanted, it was going to sell much less because the ceiling has fallen greatly.

 

[hiska-kun]

Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS had a better debut than the original, at least at retail

Media Create

01./00. [WIU] Super Mario Maker # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2015.09.10} (¥6.156) - 138.242 / NEW <56,03%>

Famitsu

01./00. [WIU] Super Mario Maker # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2015.09.10} (¥6.156) - 143.514 / NEW <60-80%>

Next comparison for next week.

 

[noobie]

PS3 VS PS4

PS4 leading

Week 162 is where they may cross over again. I think thats a 237k week for PS3.

It all depends on how hard PS4 is going to fall after January 7. and is Q1 2017 releases keeps the hardware sales going strong?

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Final Fantasy is bombing as expected.

Shame to see Appmon doing so poorly. Impressions seem to be positive on the game, and the anime has been top notch.

 

[Ōkami]

When Splatoon sells more than Final Fantasy and Metal Gear combined.

 

[Screamapillar]

Great debut for Mario Maker 3DS. Should be a steady seller for a while. FFXV debut isn't great, but considering the console market in Japan, what were people expecting? The PS4 install base is nowhere near what the PS3's was when FFXIII came out, so makes it really difficult to compare. If you divide the sales of FFXV by the total PS4 base in Japan, I think looking at the attach rate is the most accurate comparison to make.

Besides, with all the DLC they're doing, plus digital sales, depending on if sales hold up reasonably well through Decemeber, SE is probably pretty satisfied with the reception.

FFXV in it's debut week already has over an 18% attach rate to PS4. So nearly a fifth of all PS4 owners already own FFXV, and it's only been out for a week.

Compare that to FFXIII for PS3, which had a 35% attach rate to PS3 in it's debut week, but there was no such thing as Day 1 digital releases back then, *and* the domestic console market in Japan was significantly more popular seven years ago.

 

[Lostconfused]

Is this decisive evidence on why it sold less? The point is more along the lines of even if Final Fantasy was doing everything you wanted, it was going to sell much less because the ceiling had fallen greatly.

FFXIII sold a lot more with a relatively similar install base for the console. So for that time frame there aren't fewer number of people interested in playing console games. There are fewer number of people interested in playing Final Fantasy on a console. I believe that's the logic at play here.

 

[Principate]

Is this decisive evidence on why it sold less? The point is more along the lines of even if Final Fantasy was doing everything you wanted, it was going to sell much less because the ceiling had fallen greatly.

There's nothing stopping FF XV selling 1.5 million in Japan. Wii U titles have managed to do this. So as much as you can blame the current downturn in the traditional gaming industry it's not some sort of complete explanation as to way it sold what it did.

 

[gconsole]

As an IP FF is around persona level in japan then

Are you high?

 

[Putty]

Given the current gaming climate in Japan, i'd be surprised if SE we're disappointed with these figures. We don't know the digital numbers of course.

Gaming in Japan in 2016 is simply not the same as 2009...

 

[Eliseo]

When Splatoon sells more than Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and Persona 5 combined.

FTFY

 

[Lexxism]

Speaking of ff12, did they mention anything on the remake/remaster gameplay? I wonder if its still turn-based. Hopefully it is.

 

[Magicpaint]

3DS Mario Maker did well. Much better than YSO predictions.

Damn, FF has really fallen. I really wonder what Square-Enix can do to restore it to its former glory.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

The point is more along the lines of even if Final Fantasy was doing everything you wanted, it was going to sell much less because the ceiling has fallen greatly.

Home consoles may be down from 5-10 years ago, but PlayStation isn't.

PS3 VS PS4

PS4 leading

Speaking of ff12, did they mention anything on the remake/remaster gameplay? I wonder if its still turn-based. Hopefully it is.

It was always menu-based, but never turn-based.

 

[gconsole]

Why didn't MGS5 have a huge decline? Or Persona 5?

My educate guess would be that MGS5 and Persona5 has a strong core audience while the game with sale scale like FF require much more than just the core audience but also the main stream gamers ( which is mostly disappear from japan console market ). Any series that sells more than 2 million will have the same situation if they don't do it properly. Similar thing happen to RE before when RE2 ( 2.3 m ) sale reduce to RE3 ( 1.3 m ), and that one didn't even have any problem and the series popularity was still ok at that time.

Nobody knows FFXV is going to have shit story and all other problems. It's still FF, people will eat it up regardless.

 

[sanstesy]

I totally missed Super Mario Maker. That's also a good result.