Media Create Sales: Week 5, 2015 (Jan 26 - Feb 01)

Jun 7, 2004
114,759
1
0
37
sörine;151059665 said:
How about Phantasia SFC versus PS1? Or Narikiri Dungeon GBC versus PSP?
Those are all huge remakes. I think we're losing sight of the original point.

"Without additional content a remake doesn't ever match the original. I don't think there is an example to refute that."

This is something I totally agree with. The use of remake here I assume is fairly liberate, meaning re-releases on other platforms later on.
 
Jun 27, 2011
1,843
0
485
electrolit.net
Tales of Symphonia
Sorry, I hadn't seen that yet. Although I'm inclined to include ports like this, as I would International versions (and kind of already did with Atlus ports), it is covered by having additional content. But yeah, the main reason here is probably the quick rerelease on a more popular platform, although from a different family.

Close but not quite.
 
Apr 5, 2006
46,932
1
0
Isn't Tales of Symphonia's additional content pretty minimal compared to other ports? Like there're no new characters/scenarios like in other Tales ports.
In that sense, Xenoblade Chronicles 3D also has additional content, with stuff like the amiibo integration and Streetpass.
 
Jun 7, 2004
114,759
1
0
37
Isn't Tales of Symphonia's additional content pretty minimal compared to other ports? Like there're no new characters/scenarios like in other Tales ports.
In that sense, Xenoblade Chronicles 3D also has additional content, with stuff like the amiibo integration and Streetpass.
There are new anime movies, new sub-events, new monsters, new attacks, new costumes, and a bunch of gameplay tweaks and balance changes. The only known addition to Xenoblade is a character/monster/sound viewer mode.
 
Jul 9, 2012
2,539
0
425
Japan
twitter.com
sörine;151059665 said:
How about Phantasia SFC versus PS1? Or Narikiri Dungeon GBC versus PSP?
Only numbers we've got for the older games are the ones provided by Bandai Namco in 2007 (which are worldwide, including asian versions and such, and shipped not sold)

Tales of Phantasia SNES 212 000
Tales of Phantasia PS1 769 000
Tales of Phantasia : Narikiri Dungeon GBC 136.000

As for Narikiri X and ToP Full Voice from Garaph

Tales of Phantasia Narikiri Dungeon X PSP 180 645
Tales of Phantasia: Full Voice Edition 111 034

Narikiri X included a remake of the first Narikiri and, again, a new version of Phantasia which was based on the Full voice Edition previously published on PSP.

Phantasia SNES/PS1 is in the same situation that Vesperia/Graces again imo, and Narikiri is a difficult comparison because the PSP version included two games and amongst those the "definitive" version of Tales of Phantasia

EDIT:

There are new anime movies, new sub-events, new monsters, new attacks, new costumes, and a bunch of gameplay tweaks and balance changes.
And glorious 30fps battles instead of 60 :p
 
Jun 6, 2012
5,419
0
0
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle outdid the original Dreamcast version with basically no new content.

NGC : Sonic Adventure 2: Battle -            30,295 / 192,186
SDC : Sonic Adventure 2 -            84,508 / 108,480

RE4 PS2 outdid RE4 Gamecube by a ways, though there was some additional content I suppose at the cost of a hit to the graphics.

Don't get me wrong, in general I agree with the sentiment that remakes almost always do worse, and that Xenoblade 3DS will do worse. However it's not quite a universal truth.
 
Apr 5, 2006
46,932
1
0
Ahh wait!
Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney Justice for All and Trials and Tribulations.

Besides those 2 games, I can't even think of anything else that got a late port, yet with very minimal to no additional content, beyond digital releases.

Stuff like Xenoblade Chronicles 3D is actually a pretty rare situation. Or at least, I think it is, cause I'm honestly having a hard time coming up with similar things.
Even Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D got new levels, while The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D got Boss Rush and mirror mode.
 
Jul 9, 2012
2,539
0
425
Japan
twitter.com
No, it's not.

Even without the 50000th version of ToP being included, it's not the same game.
Oh really?

Of course the game was a full remake, 5000th remake of Phantasia or not there still was two games in the same UMD and that was my point.

I also got kinda lost because the word "remake" tends to be misused, like for a port with new contents, but that's something which seem to more widely accepted now, so, don't mind me as I don't want to derail the discussion more than it is already.
 
Sep 1, 2013
7,582
0
0
Those are all huge remakes. I think we're losing sight of the original point.

"Without additional content a remake doesn't ever match the original. I don't think there is an example to refute that."

This is something I totally agree with. The use of remake here I assume is fairly liberate, meaning re-releases on other platforms later on.
Oh right, I thought Fisico was discounting ports/asking about remakes.

Looking at Xenoblade maybe a better thing to compare to would be console games later retrofitted for handhelds? In which case most examples have the handheld conversion doing less except in cases where they really take off (Monster Hunter G/Portable, Animal Crossing GC/DS). Of course with Xenoblade we have a game that didn't do all that hot on console anyway and is being commissioned to push the franchise further, which is rather unlike most handheld ports/remakes and especially unlike every previous Nintendo handheld conversion (Mario 1-64, ALLTP/OOT/MM, Mother 1-2, DKC1-R, DKR, Fire Emblem 1/3, Starfox 64, etc). The closest would be maybe be Crystalis GBC?
 
Nov 17, 2011
4,152
0
0
If you read the media coverage and fan opinions, online multiplayer always comes up even if people haven't seen how it will work yet exactly. Again, I'm sure it will be shown in more detail in the next presentation. Anyway, if you only give little in the way of details that doesn't mean there is no angle. I challenge you to give better examples of what XBX is about going by what we have seen.

And the strong emphasis is evident in Takahashi's statement. He describes his game and gives the major aims: open world and online. Not to forget seamless (which also refers to open world). Compared to that, FFXV emphasizes the word open world but doesn't refer to online much (if at all?). So I'd say XBX is the JRPG most emphasizing its online component, by showing it in early trailers already and by the mission statement of the director.

Although the online multiplayer will become a selling point once they show more of it, my main point isn't online multiplayer will sell this game (even if that might also turn out to be true). But that the online multiplayer will keep players hooked. The emphasis is there, the displaying angle is there, there is no fault in what I said.
I agree and well, it's not like the online component is not emphasized since we know the title by "The use of 'X [Cross]' has implications for the online functionality".

The game will probably also have post release support. Those 1000¥ coming with the special bundle have to be spent; :]
 
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle outdid the original Dreamcast version with basically no new content.

NGC : Sonic Adventure 2: Battle -            30,295 / 192,186
SDC : Sonic Adventure 2 -            84,508 / 108,480
A time when Sonic sold worth a damn in Japan. He's lucky nowadays to debut at 5k FW and then never show up again.
 
Jul 29, 2010
4,242
68
655
@extralite, I wouldn't keep your hopes up. If XBX can outsell Hyrule Warriors and even hit like 150K, I'd be fairly happy. If anything, I'm hoping the DQX Wii U crowd and w/e core Wii U gamers are left who picked up Fatal Frame, Bayo 2, etc. pick up the title... We'll see though. This is Japan, the land consoles under-perform to no end. I'm not really sure how XB3D will sell, so it's possible that we have XBX sell like 150K eventually over XB3D's 100K or so.
 
Jun 27, 2011
1,843
0
485
electrolit.net
After a night of sleep I think I want to sum up my take on the sales potential of re-releases again because the points I made across different posts seem contradictory and there are some problems with the terminology used.

Who do re-releases sell to? Double dippers and first time players.

Why would people even double dip? Because there is new content (a point I was making), or it's a remake on a scale that provides a new experience (covered by duckroll) despite it being the same game at its core, or maybe because they are still playing that game and the re-release provides some added value, like portability (point made by Busaiku).

Why would there still be first time players? Because they were too young when the game first came out (remake of a somewhat old game), or it was exclusive to a system they didn't own (Tales on non PS platforms, usually), or they didn't notice it then (re-release of a game that hasn't found success yet), or the game is better suited to the new platform than the one it was on before (MH).

The general pattern that can be observed is that re-releases sell less than first releases. Basically, for a re-release to surpass the original it is necessary that the original didn't live up to its full potential. But if a game isn't successful it won't warrant a re-release. So very few examples to counter the general pattern emerge.

If we look at examples that do counter it, they usually come from the mid range and the release sells about the same as before. ToS on GC sold half of what could be expected so Namco knew there were more sales to be had. So that warranted a port and the sales were to be expected. By the time FFIII was remade, the franchise had grown to 3-4 million per installment, compared to 1.4 million for the original. So the DS remake might have matched the original but compared to a newer installment (by then still 2-3 million) the ratio was similar to what we would expect from a remake.

Those are examples that, in my opinion, got most of their sales from first time players. Whereas smaller franchises with very consistent re-release sales, like the ones by Atlus, have a much higher number of double dippers. So when I said:

I think the remake rule is a general one. Without additional content a remake doesn't ever match the original. I don't think there is an example to refute that.
even though the statement is mostly true, I was thinking of the impact of double dippers. Which is felt in all re-releases, if you can't keep enough of the fans on board there is no base to grow from. Even MH releases on PSP had massive additional content to make the fan base come back. Thanks to the multiplayer it could grow exponentially from there.

At the same time I made statements to the effect that XB3D might outsell the Wii original, which would defeat the above claim. But that will be only possible because the original release might have not reached its full potential. In that regard ToS was a good example to raise because if XB3D will outperform the original it will be for similar reasons.

Like I said, it will sell to new customers. I don't think people who played the original are still playing it now. For all the content it has, it is a story game. Once you beat it and 100 %ed it, there is no reason to keep playing. No multiplayer, no DLC. And you can't transfer your save either. Double dippers for a replay, in 3D, on the commute. Sure there will be some but not enough to surpass the original.

I think the main point of the 3DS port is to catch new players who think XBX looks interesting but don't want to invest in a 30000 yen console. But since they already own a N3DS, or were thinking of buying one they might go for the old game instead. People who liked the original will most certainly prefer the new game though, especially since the port lacks new content. Which is kind of rare because normally you don't want to pass up double dippers. But it makes sense if we assume that XB3D is aimed at reluctant potential new players. Nintendo doesn't want double dippers to negatively impact sales of the new game.
 
Oct 2, 2014
259
0
0
I think predictions of 1M or more for Persona 5 in Japan are more based on wishful thinking than anything else. It is true that persona is more popular now, but 1M is more than 3 times what Persona 4 sold.

I expect that the growth is more at consolidating the fanbase, which means that Persona 5 should do 300k - 400k as fw instead of LTD, but I also expect it to be more frontloaded than the other Personas, more like Tales games. If Persona 5 does Tales of Xillia numbers, it will be quite a success.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
0
0
YSO predictions

Week 7, 2015 (Feb 9 - Feb 15)

[3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D > 140k
[PS3] Samurai Warriors 4-II < 90k
[3DS] Nanatsu no Taizai: The Seven Deadly Sins - Unjust Sin > 30k
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
0
0
If these predictions come true Samurai Warriors 4-II could come close to Samurai Warriors 4 opening for an expansion it is. On the other hand it was a low opening for Samurai Warriors 4 to compete.
 

mao2

Member
Jun 22, 2012
3,280
0
0
Since no one posted...

Tsutaya Sales: Week 6, 2015 (Feb 2 - Feb 8)
http://store-tsutaya.tsite.jp/rank/game.html
01. [PS3] Dragonball XenoVerse
02. [PS4] Dragonball XenoVerse
03. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch 2: Shinuchi
04. [PS4] Far Cry 4
05. [3DS] Lost Heroes 2
06. [PS3] Far Cry 4
07. [PS3] Tales of Zestiria
08. [3DS] Devil Survivor 2: Record Breaker
09. [PS3] Dark Souls II: Scholar of the First Sin
10. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS
11. [PS3] Bladestorm: Nightmare
12. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate
13. [WiiU] Kirby and the Rainbow Curse
14. [3DS] Pokémon Alpha Sapphire
15. [WiiU] Super Smash Bros. for WiiU
16. [3DS] Pokémon Omega Ruby
17. [3DS] Lost Heroes 2 Premium Edition
18. [PS4] Bladestorm: Nightmare
19. [PS3] Ukiyo no Shishi
20. [PS3] Pro Evolution Soccer 2015
Comg! Sales: Week 6, 2015 (Feb 2 - Feb 8)
http://www.comgnet.com/ranking/
01. [PS3] Dragonball XenoVerse - 97pt
02. [PS4] Dragonball XenoVerse - 65pt
03. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch 2: Shinuchi - 37pt
04. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate - 33pt
05. [3DS] Lost Heroes 2 - 29pt
06. [PS3] Far Cry 4 - 27pt
07. [3DS] Lost Heroes 2 Premium Edition - 25pt
08. [PS3] Tales of Zestiria - 23pt
09. [PS3] Dark Souls II: Scholar of the First Sin - 22pt
10. [3DS] Devil Survivor 2: Record Breaker - 22pt
11. [PS4] Far Cry 4 - 20pt
12. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 18pt
13. [3DS] Pokémon Alpha Sapphire - 17pt
14. [PSV] Photo Kano Kiss [Ebikore] - 13pt
15. [PS3] Gran Theft Auto V [Bargain Edition] - 10pt
16. [3DS] One Piece: Super Grand Battle! X - 9pt
17. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch 2: Ganso - 8pt
18. [WiiU] Kirby and the Rainbow Curse - 7pt
19. [PSV] Gundam Breaker 2 - 7pt
20. [PS3] Bladestorm: Nightmare - 7pt
 
Mar 9, 2012
3,567
0
445
Spain
Tsutaya's Ranking Week 6 2015

01./00. [PS3] Dragon Ball: Xenoverse <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games)
02./00. [PS4] Dragon Ball: Xenoverse <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games)

03./05. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch 2: Shin Uchi <RPG> (Level 5)
04./02. [PS4] Far Cry 4 <ACT> (Ubisoft)
05./00. [3DS] Lost Heroes 2 <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games)
06./04. [PS3] Far Cry 4 <ACT> (Ubisoft)
07./03. [PS3] Tales of Zestiria <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games)
08./01. [3DS] Devil Survivor 2: Break Record <SLG> (Atlus)
09./00. [PS3] Dark Souls II: Scholar of the First Sin <RPG> (From Software)
10./11. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS <FTG> (Nintendo)
11./06. [PS3] Bladestorm: Nightmare <SLG> (Koei Tecmo)
12./12. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate <ACT> (Capcom)
13./08. [WIU] Kirby and the Rainbow Curse <ACT> (Nintendo)
14./14. [3DS] Pokemon Alpha Sapphire <RPG> (Pokemon Co.)
15./16. [WIU] Super Smash Bros. for Wii U <FTG> (Nintendo)
16./15. [3DS] Pokemon Omega Ruby <RPG> (Pokemon Co.)
17./00. [3DS] Lost Heroes 2 (Premium Edition) <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games)
18./07. [PS4] Bladestorm: Nightmare <SLG> (Koei Tecmo)
19./10. [PS3] Ukiyo no Shishi <ADV> (Spike Chunsoft)
20./22. [PS3] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2015 <SPT> (Konami)
 
Mar 21, 2014
5,061
0
0
that's not unusual with popular games on amazon, right? i think i remember mh4 dropping to 500y very very early too.
I'm not too sure myself, but it's going around Japanese forums and blogs which they were all making a big deal about.

Didn't Monster Hunter get the drop when they announced its G version?
 
Oct 10, 2007
4,117
0
0
www.wiitalia.it
YSO predictions

Week 7, 2015 (Feb 9 - Feb 15)

[3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D > 140k
[PS3] Samurai Warriors 4-II < 90k
[3DS] Nanatsu no Taizai: The Seven Deadly Sins - Unjust Sin > 30k
This game seems going well in preorders (over 60pts on Comgnet). It might a further proof that anime tie-in of minor IPs are actually viable on 3DS.

 
Jan 25, 2014
9,210
0
0
This game seems going well in preorders (over 60pts on Comgnet). It might a further proof that anime tie-in of minor IPs are actually viable on 3DS.
It's going to be interesting to see how it performs, because as Hiska reminded me recently, COMG tends to inflate anime-tie-ins quite a lot (Magi on 3DS; Irregular Magic High School on Vita).

It's certainly been doing extremely well in pre-orders there lately, though.
 
Oct 10, 2007
4,117
0
0
www.wiitalia.it
It's going to be interesting to see how it performs, because as Hiska reminded me recently, COMG tends to inflate anime-tie-ins quite a lot (Magi on 3DS; Irregular Magic High School on Vita).

It's certainly been doing extremely well in pre-orders there lately, though.
Well, even with a debut close to 30k, it'd be successful given how low-budget-y the game looks. 3DS, though, has a good record in selling this kind of tie-ins.

A game, on the other hand, that doesn't seem much anticipated is the new Senran Kagura. It'd be hilarious if it ends up selling close to SK2 on 3DS.
 
Jul 17, 2013
1,406
0
0
Once more Japanese 3rd party titles starts coming in on PS4, it's over. The Wii U is only about a million owners above PS4 as of now in that region.
yea... wii u may not be doing well but the ps4 is doing crappy too, the third parties wont help it. im assuming the both do similar numbers in the end.
 
Mar 13, 2013
12,412
3
0
Well, even with a debut close to 30k, it'd be successful given how low-budget-y the game looks. 3DS, though, has a good record in selling this kind of tie-ins.

A game, on the other hand, that doesn't seem much anticipated is the new Senran Kagura. It'd be hilarious if it ends up selling close to SK2 on 3DS.
When is Estival Verus out? I imagine it will do better than SK2 but I'm not sure it can match Shinovi Versus without the anime.

yea... wii u may not be doing well but the ps4 is doing crappy too, the third parties wont help it. im assuming the both do similar numbers in the end.
PS4 will do better in the long run but it's going to take a while.
 

mao2

Member
Jun 22, 2012
3,280
0
0
When is Estival Verus out? I imagine it will do better than SK2 but I'm not sure it can match Shinovi Versus without the anime.
Senran Kagura: Estival Versus will be out on March 26, along with Bloodborne, Disgaea 5, One Piece: Pirate Warriors 3, Sword Art Online: Lost Song, Deception IV: Another Princess and many others. AKA RIP Wallet Day.

There's a Senran Kagura: Estival Versus OVA that'll be aired on TV but I don't know if it'll help boost sales.
http://senran.tv/products/ova.html
 
Mar 13, 2013
12,412
3
0
Senran Kagura: Estival Versus will be out on March 26, along with Bloodborne, Disgaea 5, One Piece: Pirate Warriors 3, Sword Art Online: Lost Song, Deception IV: Another Princess and many others. AKA RIP Wallet Day.

There's a Senran Kagura: Estival Versus OVA that'll be aired on TV but I don't know if it'll help boost sales.
http://senran.tv/products/ova.html
Oh shizz yeah, there is going to be quite a few bombs that day.

I didn't know about the OVA. That might help.
 

Eolz

Member
Jun 1, 2014
10,184
1
405
UK, sometimes France
Senran Kagura: Estival Versus will be out on March 26, along with Bloodborne, Disgaea 5, One Piece: Pirate Warriors 3, Sword Art Online: Lost Song, Deception IV: Another Princess and many others. AKA RIP Wallet Day.

There's a Senran Kagura: Estival Versus OVA that'll be aired on TV but I don't know if it'll help boost sales.
http://senran.tv/products/ova.html
Oh it's airing on TV as well? It was always advertised as a collector edition bluray bonus before that.
 
Mar 21, 2014
5,061
0
0
Current interesting things in this weeks Famitsu/Dengeki
- FFXV Luminous tech (eyes and hair)
- Persona 5 stuff (already posted)
- Will see some big movements this year happening for Deep Down (sounds like a 2016 release)
- Sengoku Musou producer wants to renew many features of the games on PS4 for the eventual Sengoku Musou 5

Dengeki Playstation next issue preview:
- DQHeroes start dash guide
- Final Fantasy special on FFXV, Type 0 HD, and Mevius
- New Information on Dragon's Dogma Online, Tokyo Xanadu, Yakuza 0, SAO Lost Song, Disgaea 5, Evolve and others
- Information on an unannounced title

Famitsu next issue preview:
- Special on GE2:RB
- PlayStation 4 first year anniversary satisfaction investigation
- New info on Dragon's Dogma Online
 

mao2

Member
Jun 22, 2012
3,280
0
0
Oh it's airing on TV as well? It was always advertised as a collector edition bluray bonus before that.
Yeah, it says in the link that the OVA will be aired on AT-X on March 29, 9.00pm ~ 9.30pm. BTW PS4 Nyuu Nyuu DX Pack comes with a product code for downloading the OVA, not Blu-ray disc.
 
Mar 13, 2013
12,412
3
0
vita finally gets an original final fantasy

Dengeki PS occasionally covers non-PS games if they think their readers would be interested in them. IIRC, they covered some Persona Q stuff.
Yup, I believe they also had some key info back on Theatrhythm back when it was announced.