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[metalslimer]

People aren't willing to accept the idea that this is an issue affecting primarily Nintendo, that's what it comes down to. For some Nintendo can do no wrong so it has to be an industry wide issue.

If it was something all companies had to face then Wii U would still have lower than Wii sales, but those sales would be above the PS3.

This assumes the market hasn't changed at all for Sony or MS though. I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but you have no evidence of what will happen just like someone predicting the Wii u would be getting beat by Vita would have been laughed at 6 months ago.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

People aren't willing to accept the idea that this is an issue affecting primarily Nintendo, that's what it comes down to. For some Nintendo can do no wrong so it has to be an industry wide issue.

Sounds like the western Vita arguments I see trotted out often. Vita's not stillborn, handhelds industry wide are.

Though 3DS is the west also seems a bit healthier than PS3 ever was in Japan...

 

[ShockingAlberto]

There's a lot more to consider about the PS4 than simply whether people will buy the base unit. They've been really cagey about activation codes for games, a move that will punch Japan's fairly fundamental used market in the gut, and (if it requires a fee to play used games), could result in people waiting for massive price collapses before purchasing.

 

[Pie and Beans]

There's a lot more to consider about the PS4 than simply whether people will buy the base unit. They've been really cagey about activation codes for games, a move that will punch Japan's fairly fundamental used market in the gut, and (if it requires a fee to play used games), could result in people waiting for massive price collapses before purchasing.

That seems essentially just a massive load of conjecture though with the only thing sort of said for definite by someone that would be in the know as "Yes PS4 will play used games". If you want to add on a "but" thats your perogative, and maybe you'd be right, but theres more leaning towards that not being the case than otherwise.

 

[metalslimer]

Getting off the whole Wii U, Vita, PS4 discussion for a second, what do people think MGS Rising's performance mean for the series in general? Is Ground Zeroes going to be a pretty huge game that sells over a million copies considering how well MGS4 did in the state the PS3 was in when it came out? And would Sony be smart to try and make the game PS4 timed exclusive in Japan for a little while before the PS3 version (assuming it exists and is not a Kojima troll) comes out?

 

[Nirolak]

So I assume you are predicting the Wii U to sell less than 4 million in Japan?

Well the debate in the thread centers around the assumption that any historic sales potential data from this generation is largely useless and all that matters is the entropy trend of console boxes in Japan, so putting both consoles at sub 4 million LTDs would fit with systems that have been deemed to have nigh zero useful software.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Did rising have a,360 version in Japan? I didn't notice it in the chart.
I doubt GZ would have timed PS4 exclusivity unless there's a danger of it launching alongside an earlier 720. Personally I'm hoping it's out before the new consoles anyway.

 

[Celestial]

Getting off the whole Wii U, Vita, PS4 discussion for a second, what do people think MGS Rising's performance mean for the series in general? Is Ground Zeroes going to be a pretty huge game that sells over a million copies considering how well MGS4 did in the state the PS3 was in when it came out? And would Sony be smart to try and make the game PS4 timed exclusive in Japan for a little while before the PS3 version (assuming it exists and is not a Kojima troll) comes out?

Rising did good for the first week.I believe there will be a sequel but it's too early to say that.Ground Zeroes is a stealth action game,it could easily be a numbered title too so i think it will do better.We still dont know much about the game though.I read somewhere that we will get some info at GDC this month.

 

[Currygan]

so, any estimates/leaks/anything about Vita sales?

 

[Takao]

Did rising have a,360 version in Japan? I didn't notice it in the chart.
I doubt GZ would have timed PS4 exclusivity unless there's a danger of it launching alongside an earlier 720. Personally I'm hoping it's out before the new consoles anyway.

No, Konami didn't release a 360 version in Japan. Probably wouldn't have charted in the top 30 anyways, lol.

 

[Rolf NB]

<...>

Dynasty Warriors - Could well become a portable-only franchise. Tecmo-Koei isn't exactly a huge company so the dev costs of PS4 may well be a little too high for them.

<...>

NIS Games - High dev costs means they could be Vita/PS3 only.

<...>

These are basically the poster-child examples of how you make low-budget games on hardware capable of much, much more, and still have a healthy business.

Making the exact same assets run on a newer, more capable box does not cost anything. You'll just take the free resolution bump and twice the framerates and run with it. If your target market does not care about utilizing the hardware to its fullest -- and again, the numbers tell us that DW and Disgaea sell to a market that doesn't mind at all -- the only real expense is the publishing license, devkits etc. Which you will have to obtain at some point anyway, if you want to stick around as a company.

 

[schuelma]

These are basically the poster-child examples of how you make low-budget games on hardware capable of much, much more, and still have a healthy business.

Making the exact same assets run on a newer, more capable box does not cost anything. You'll just take the free resolution bump and twice the framerates and run with it. If your target market does not care about utilizing the hardware to its fullest -- and again, the numbers tell us that DW and Disgaea sell to a market that doesn't mind at all -- the only real expense is the publishing license, devkits etc. Which you will have to obtain at some point anyway, if you want to stick around as a company.

This is very true, and this factor makes me think we could see a lot of PS4/PS3 or even PS4/Wii U multi plats for Japanese centric series like the musou games

 

[Nirolak]

This is very true, and this factor makes me think we could see a lot of PS4/PS3 or even PS4/Wii U multi plats for Japanese centric series like the musou games

Honestly I think the best poster child for how much below the PS3 many Japanese games shoot is that they seem to have a pretty easy time porting their games onto Vita, which is actually totally not trivial if you have something stressing the PS3.

 

[extralite]

Getting off the whole Wii U, Vita, PS4 discussion for a second, what do people think MGS Rising's performance mean for the series in general? Is Ground Zeroes going to be a pretty huge game that sells over a million copies considering how well MGS4 did in the state the PS3 was in when it came out? And would Sony be smart to try and make the game PS4 timed exclusive in Japan for a little while before the PS3 version (assuming it exists and is not a Kojima troll) comes out?

MGS4 has been used as the prime example that franchises don't have to suffer decreasing sales because of the smaller user base of the PS3. Actually MGS has been so consistent over three generations that not much sales variation should be expected on PS4 either. Assuming GZ performs like a numbered MGS, it could see a slight increase to push it over a million but what exactly would cause that? A spin-off in another genre selling well on brand strength? I don't see it.

WKC also sold about as much as any other L5 PS2 RPG. The franchises that actually declined (like Tales and RE) were already declining on PS2 (due to RE4 and Symphonia being ports from GC versions). Tales continued to suffer from the late arrival to the PS3 (and more "Symphonias" on several non-PS platforms) but recovered well enough with Xilia. RE5 too.

FF has just been declining since FFIX. Franchises keeping their PS2 performance is about as much as can be expected I think.

 

[CoachKevin]

Any more retail musings about how the Vita is selling over the weekend with the price drop?

 

[Dalthien]

Why are you downplaying the loss of MH?

I wasn't downplaying it in the sense that you were talking about. If PS3 got a hypothetical mainline MH, would it have helped - sure.

But the discussion was about the PS4 getting all of the PS3 successful franchises, and how that should ensure that the PS4 matches the PS3's level of "success". I was pointing out that the PS3 actually got just about all of the PS2's successful franchises, and yet sold way, way worse than the PS2. Monster Hunter barely cracked 500k on the PS2 - it wasn't even in the Top 40 PS2 games. MH3HD on the PS3 sold over 400k - so the PS3 basically got most of the PS2 MH customers carried over to it.

Edit2: 3rd HD isn't an update. It's basically emulated, with minimal porting effort.

Well, it IS a graphical update. Hence, the HD in the title. The quality of the update can be disputed, but it is an update.

 

[AzaK]

There's a lot more to consider about the PS4 than simply whether people will buy the base unit. They've been really cagey about activation codes for games, a move that will punch Japan's fairly fundamental used market in the gut, and (if it requires a fee to play used games), could result in people waiting for massive price collapses before purchasing.

Yes, they have been very cagey about it. Every time they are asked they skirt around the issue and it will be interesting to see how it pans out. Maybe they'll do something like a "two times" use. This lets the original gamer get some money back as well as letting the stores have their used games market to some extent but keeps it in check.

God I fear the fully digital distribution world that we are inevitably going to end up at.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Any more retail musings about how the Vita is selling over the weekend with the price drop?

Nope, but Tsutaya and Comg top software should be out in a few hours, possibly followed by an early Famitsu report.

Excite!

EDIT: Oop, Famitsu early reports are usually on Tuesdays.

 

[test_account]

Don't you think that because both: A) wanting to see a system succeed and B) enjoying the ebb and flow of the game industry's "sales age" aspect, are so far removed from a person's life that you can't say there is an intrinsic positivity or negativity to either view? That was my point. People are quick to say it is "negative" to want a system to "fail" but I think the majority of those "negative" people are probably actually just enjoying the drama of sales (which is neither negative or positive imo).

At least that is how I see it, it would be almost impossible for even a massive failure to impact on either my quality of life or the amount of games I have to play so although I can understand the desire to cheerlead I can also understand how people who enjoy the drama of a system selling badly are probably not actually doing anything negative.

Sorry for the late reply, i didnt see your reply before today.

I see what you mean. I agree that it is is interesting to see how people will react if something doesnt sell well, but this is more "on the surface", simply just wanting to see how people react. In those cases i dont think much thoughs are being offered to the actual game or game system creators, so it isnt really anything more deep than just wanting to see people's reaction.

What i was thinking about was to actively hoping that someone who made a gaming system would fail to the extend that people lost their jobs and that there wont be another successor to the gaming system. For gamers, this gives no advatange at all, so i see no reason to wish for failures like this. So in this regards, i see no reason not to hope that more gaming platforms has success.

But i think pretty much everyone in these threads have felt at least once, wanting to see something underperform sales wise just to see the reaction to fans of a certain system, but this is something i define to be more "on the surface" and not a deep wish to see something fail, if you know what i mean? If this is what you mean with "not actually doing anything negative", just wanting to see how people react, then i agree because i think it is very common for people here wanting to see how people react if something doesnt sell too well.


About affecting the quality of life, i think it depends on exactly what a "massive failure" is. If someone is a huge fan of Microsoft, Nintendo or Sony, and one of those companies quit the gaming industry because of failures, i think this could affect the quality of life for some to a certain degree, dont you agree? Obviously people will manage fine overall, but still, it could suck big time that the system(s) brand they prefer wont longer excist.

This is very true, and this factor makes me think we could see a lot of PS4/PS3 or even PS4/Wii U multi plats for Japanese centric series like the musou games

I wonder how the japanese developed games will do regarding multiplatform. For the games that appeal worldwide (Resident Evil, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy etc.), i expect to see games multiplatform, but i wonder more about games that are more developed towards the japanese audience only.

I thought that we would see a lot more mutliplatforms between the 3DS and the Vita, but that didnt happend (i thought this when both were priced at 25k yen though). And now we see several of PS3 games that are exclusive, like they dont feel much need to go multiplatform.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

http://www.inside-games.jp/article/2013/03/03/64391.html

lol

 

[DaBoss]

*facepalm*

Google Streetview is pretty cool, but it's a novelty that will just wear off after a while. I can't believe marketing is going towards it.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

That seems essentially just a massive load of conjecture though with the only thing sort of said for definite by someone that would be in the know as "Yes PS4 will play used games". If you want to add on a "but" thats your perogative, and maybe you'd be right, but theres more leaning towards that not being the case than otherwise.

It was conjecture and I apologize if it was not clearly presented as so. This Wired article presents my misgivings about what they have said fairly well:

Eurogamer asked Shuhei Yoshida, head of Sony’s worldwide game development studios, if used games would function on PS4. At this, Eurogamer reports that he has to turn to the public relations specialist sitting in on the interview and ask what the official answer was. Following a brief consultation, he said, “Used games can play on PS4.”

They can? That’s a little different than “they will always, without an extra fee.” Nonetheless, many outlets reported this as closing the case for good. But then Game Informer wrote to Sony for a follow-up, and an unnamed spokesperson said this: “We are just now announcing the basic vision and strategy of PS4 and will have more information to share regarding used games later this year. But PlayStation has a long history of keeping its gamers happy and we won’t make decisions that damage our relationship with them.”

Um: More information? If PS4 can play used games, what more information could there possibly be? The only way there would be any more information is if playing used games on a PlayStation 4 is more complicated (or costly) than simply buying a disc and popping it in.

That's what I mean about them being cagey.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Oh. Kohler. Of course. Lets hope his particular brand of rabble-rousing is wrong this go around.

http://www.inside-games.jp/article/2013/03/03/64391.html

lol

Google Streetview on a device you cannot take out of the house. Be sure to advertise that one heavily on the subway, Nintendo! If only bar-graphGAF had access to Iwata's sleeping patterns of late.

 

[test_account]

It was conjecture and I apologize if it was not clearly presented as so. This Wired article presents my misgivings about what they have said fairly well:



That's what I mean about them being cagey.

"More information" could simply just mean a confirmation about how used games will be handled. It is being said by another person (an unknown spokesman), and it doesnt seem that he have mentioned anything earlier about PS4 and used games. Then it doesnt collide with what Yoshida said. But there isnt any 100% confirmation on it yet, so only time will tell.

 

[electroplankton]

http://www.inside-games.jp/article/2013/03/03/64391.html

lol

Shameless.

 

[AzaK]

http://www.inside-games.jp/article/2013/03/03/64391.html

lol

That's it Nintendo. That's the market you want! You go!

 

[schuelma]

Jesus Nintendo how out of touch can you get?

 

[shinra-bansho]

So I assume you are predicting the Wii U to sell less than 4 million in Japan?

I'm not sure where you derive that from my saying that better than GCN, but less than PS3 leaves a huge margin.

At this point it isn't even keeping the pace of SM64 anymore:

We have to consider the first weeks are likely higher too, considering what Famitsu published for the 1996 total later on.

SM64 went on to sell 1.64m according to Famitsu. Nintendo says they shipped 1.92 million copies of the game and 5.54 million units of the N64, which gives an attach rate of ~35%. MK64 was even more impressive with 2.24m shipped, or ~40%.

NSMBWii was not a lunch game but still managed to achieve a similar attach rate of ~36%.

I've said in the past that I think Wii U is headed in the N64 direction rather than GC. It is not a big difference in absolute numbers 1.5 million units, but it is 37% better in hardware and 44% better in software sales. It would also be the difference between NSMBU outselling FFXIII or not (assuming it keeps the 35~40% attach rate). =P

Interesting, SM64 does seem the closer analog despite being a 3D rather than 2D platformer; as it was a launch title. And it still did around a third of its lifetime sales in the first ten weeks.

It was conjecture and I apologize if it was not clearly presented as so. This Wired article presents my misgivings about what they have said fairly well:

That's what I mean about them being cagey.

It could be a publisher decision like region locking. It could be activation codes as standard. It could be blocking as standard. Or it could be nothing.

Is there something you've heard that would suggest one thing or another outside of this conjecture?

GameStop's CEO seemed far too chipper after Destination PlayStation.

 

[Captain Smoker]

(...)

Google Streetview on a device you cannot take out of the house. Be sure to advertise that one heavily on the subway, Nintendo! If only bar-graphGAF had access to Iwata's sleeping patterns of late.

The selling point is not the navigation but the immersive 360° view of different places with the gamepad.

Think twice before you write.

 

[Pie and Beans]

The selling point is not the navigation but the immersive 360° view of different places with the gamepad.

Think twice before you write.

"Shall we go to the beach?"
"Why bother. I can get an immersive 360° view of it right here and now on this 6-inch screen."

The feel of a holiday.

 

[Captain Smoker]

"Shall we go to the beach?"
"Why bother. I can get an immersive 360° view of it right here and now on this 6-inch screen."

The feel of a holiday.

Sharp analysis of the reality.

 

[zroid]

In defence of Wii Street, it's pretty cool as a free app. They're reaching to try and charge for it, but it really provides an entirely different experience and purpose than using Google Maps on your PC or phone. It's actually... entertainment.

Positioning it in their advertising is a bit crazy/desperate, though.

 

[Baki]

The selling point is not the navigation but the immersive 360° view of different places with the gamepad.

Think twice before you write.

I can do that with my much cheaper and more capable nexus 7.

 

[Captain Smoker]

I can do that with my much cheaper and more capable nexus 7.

I'm glad you can do this too.

 

[Pie and Beans]

I thought I was missing something and this isn't just Compass Mode for Street View on Google Maps app with a tartier interface? Thats available for free, forever? Outside of my house.

 

[Baki]

I'm glad you can do this too.

Point being , this isn't what they should be focusing on.

 

[Spiegel]

Point being , this isn't what they should be focusing on.

It's not like they got a lot more stuff lined up before 5/31

 

[Captain Smoker]

Point being , this isn't what they should be focusing on.

I know, but I doubt that this function is their main focus now, it's just a random advert.

They're probably trying to show off some of the capabilities that could be interesting for the mainstream audience.


And, sadly, they haven't much else to show in Japan. They really need a japan-centric Nintendo Direct and some announcements.

 

[airmangataosenai]

It was conjecture and I apologize if it was not clearly presented as so. This Wired article presents my misgivings about what they have said fairly well:

Eurogamer asked Shuhei Yoshida, head of Sony&#8217;s worldwide game development studios, if used games would function on PS4. At this, Eurogamer reports that he has to turn to the public relations specialist sitting in on the interview and ask what the official answer was. Following a brief consultation, he said, &#8220;Used games can play on PS4.&#8221;

They can? That&#8217;s a little different than &#8220;they will always, without an extra fee.&#8221; Nonetheless, many outlets reported this as closing the case for good. But then Game Informer wrote to Sony for a follow-up, and an unnamed spokesperson said this: &#8220;We are just now announcing the basic vision and strategy of PS4 and will have more information to share regarding used games later this year. But PlayStation has a long history of keeping its gamers happy and we won&#8217;t make decisions that damage our relationship with them.&#8221;

Haha , wow. Kohler's so pathetically transparent. That seems like a pretty clear answer to me.

Have any of you tried reading his liveblog of the PS4 unveiling? He acted like he was upset to even have to be there.

 

[zroid]

I thought I was missing something and this isn't just Compass Mode for Street View on Google Maps app with a tartier interface? Thats available for free, forever? Outside of my house.

Well, if you actually try it, the appeal is a little bit more apparent. It's extremely snappy to navigate, much moreso than any other device I've used Google Maps on, and the high-res panoramas really come alive on your TV. The point is not to get directions or orient yourself, but to "explore" foreign locales (or even familiar ones). To this end, it's quite an interesting and enjoyable little tool.

But, as I said, it's not exactly a selling point for the Wii U. Or, at least, it shouldn't be. Just a neat app to spend a few minutes with here and there. And they certainly shouldn't charge for it.

 

[Striek]

I think its advertised because its something they can slap a date on to bring some immediacy to the purchasing decision. Free until 5/31. They might hope some people will be pushed over the edge.

Will it work? Probably not.

Also even though 360 degree videos aren't new, I'm sure there are a lot of people who've never seen/used one.

 

[ksamedi]

Point being , this isn't what they should be focusing on.

I think pointing out the various applications of the GamePad is the way to go actually. Google Street view, off TV play, unique dual screen games, Miiverse and other applications should be seperatly focused on. Thats the only way to market this thing. Its not as easy to understand as the Wii was.

 

[BlackJace]

http://www.inside-games.jp/article/2013/03/03/64391.html

lol

 

[Pie and Beans]

Nope. I strongly disagree (even moreso with any "snappy" comments and that 1 minute O/S load). Even attempting to market it with the same sort of app appeal as smartphones and tablets, you're already entering into "ah, but it can't..." territory and making the product look even worse as a result. Adding a potential app price after the "grace" period and you're in maximum insanity overdrive.

Guess I can understand the "what else can they slap up on walls" comments, but will they really have nothing else to advertise until JUNE though?!

 

[Spiegel]

Nope. I strongly disagree (even moreso with any "snappy" comments and that 1 minute load). Even attempting to market it with the same sort of app appeal as smartphones and tablets, you're already entering into "ah, but it can't..." territory and making the product look even worse as a result.

Guess I can understand the "what else can they slap up on walls" comments, but will they really have nothing else to advertise until JUNE though?!

The app is out now, I think. The advert is saying that it's free until 5/31.

So yeah, they've got nothing else to advertise at the moment.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Just clear this up for me as I don't hoard multiple smartphones and tablets, but virtually any handheld device supports streetview's 'compass mode', right? And that's the feature they're advertising? Or is it enhanced in some way?
Edit: nvm I see this was asked and answered.

 

[zroid]

Fair enough about the load time (although 1 minute is a gross exaggeration), I was only referring to the usage of the app itself, which is very quick to navigate and pan.

 

[schuelma]

So yeah, they've got nothing else to advertise at the moment.

They do have a first party game coming out in under a month.

Oh and the DQX port.

 

[Spiegel]

They do have a first party game coming out in under a month.

Oh and the DQX port.

These are still too far away.

Those kind of adverts are usually put up closer to the release date.

 

[StreetsAhead]

These are still too far away.

Those kind of adverts are usually put up closer to the release date.

24 days until Wario, baby! Can't wait.