Meet Mortal Kombat's First Gay Character

WAIT WHAT? NOOOOOO. Not my Kitana. Not to Liu Kang. It was fine in the movie but Liu Kang in the game is douchecanoe.
Well, at the end of the game she's not your Kitana anymore. Neither is Liu Kang. Raiden fucked things too much in the previous game. :p

If you or anyone else don't mind spoilers:
Kitana and Liu Kang end as rulers (emperor and empress) of the Netherrealm.

The only ones that Raiden managed to "fix" were Sub-Zero, Scorpion and Jax.

Kabal, Stryker, Smoke, Nightwolf, Sindel and Kung Lao are still revenants of the Netherealm. Doesn't mean they're evil, for example Sareena is also from the Netherrealm. And during the game, there were moments were they gave chances to others to escape.

*****

On topic, thought it was a cool touch. And he also gave the impression that he has a crush with Takeda. He was kinda pissy always at the thought of Takeda and Jacqui. :p
 
on the contrary

makes thing being perceived as something different,something important.

someone's sexuality is NOT important

if you keep telling the majority that they should threat the minority better,all you get is that the majority will continue to perceive the minority as something "different" then themselves.
Positive media representation is a facet of establishing and reinforcing the normalcy of minorities.

I'm not sure what about this is confusing.

Sexuality is important, but not solely defining. Just as race and gender are important, but not solely defining.
 
Good luck getting an answer out of him on that, I've asked him twice so far and he's replied to my every single sentence but those two. Gee, I wonder why?
i answered..like..two or three times...-_-

I'm beginning to think i really should refine my english..either that or you have problem understanding what i say
 
they know they exist,which is the only thing "just" adding gay characters would teach them .
what they need to understand it's that they are just "normal guys and girls",that don't stand out for their sexuality,they don't make metal detector ring or something like that.

and how you show them this?
by putting a gay character that is FIRST a character,and THEN "oh and he is also gay"

if you put a gay character and you put his/her homosexuality being the focal point of his character,at worst you get this


at best you get a character that people will remember as "the gay guy in mortal kombat"

while instead they should "acclimate" to the idea that being gay is just as being straight,just a preference that in no ways defines who we are
And how do you suggest we go about making people know that gays are just as normal as regular people then? We do that by writing them well and putting them into media. That's how. From the looks of it (I haven't played MKX yet), there is nothing wrong with how they've written the character when it comes to his sexuality. We have to start from somewhere.
 

B-Genius

Unconfirmed Member
Is it really good representation when it's just gonna fly over most people's heads?
In my humble opinion, that's the best kind of representation.

Subtle, natural, not overblown. I don't pay much attention to MK these days (especially not enough to care abotu the characters or lore), but I doff my cap to this reference.

Particularly in a fighting game, where character backgrounds are usually insubstantial and have zero bearing on the gameplay, it's nice for fans to have little bits to relate to. Something that might help them "bond" with that character more, without them being a complete charicature of what they represent.
 
Whoa mind blown

We also would have accepted: an actual answer to my reply
an answer to what exactly?

People will remember this guy as "the gay guy in mortal kombat" because there are literally very few queer characters in video games as is, in 2015. He's not going to be remembered for his sexuality because it was too over the top, too in your face, too subtle, or any other garbage like that, he's going to be remembered because it is honestly still a landmark to have a gay character be done well in a game.
this is not a question..also there's nothing i disagree with,since the "the gay guy in mortal kombat" was me talking hypotetically,since,like i said in my very first post,i think netherrealms did an excellent job with the character and should continue do the same,while people said they should have focused more on his sexuality,and an argument started
 
Eagle's dialogue got censored / changed in the West, but his CvS2 lines were pretty open, lol. Telling Morrigan she couldn't seduce him, telling Cammy he's not into young girls, telling Balrog they could be soulmates, Guile telling him "there are guys like you in the army, but it's not my thing!", and references to Freddie Mercury.
I think he hits on Rock Howard as well.

According to Rock's official bio, he dislikes women. And his Garou stage theme song contains a sample from Children by Robert Miles.

I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.
 
and that's exactly why i said they did a brilliant job?
why people keep quoting me without having read my posts first ?_?


it's not wrong per se,it just does a poor job in making homosexuals more accepted..or for lack of a better word ,more "normal" to the public eye
How does it make a poor job for the public? Given you're arguing against two popular examples like Will and Grace and Dorian, it sounds a lot more like it's affecting you on a personal level than you actually being concerned about how the "public" receives the subject.
 
And how do you suggest we go about making people know that gays are just as normal as regular people then? We do that by writing them well and putting them into media. That's how. From the looks of it (I haven't played MKX yet), there is nothing wrong with how they've written the character when it comes to his sexuality. We have to start from somewhere.


ok..enough,I'm done...you guys literally didn't even read my posts...like..at all.

i say they should continue to put gay characters in their games and continue not to put the focus on their sexuality,and that they have done a brilliant job with this character

people keep asking me why i don't want gay characters in games

what the hell?
 
Positive media representation is a facet of establishing and reinforcing the normalcy of minorities.

I'm not sure what about this is confusing.
For me the only confusing part is how someone can keep disputing it. It's so self-evident to me that I can't put myself in the mind of someone that disagrees with it, except as trolling. I should go to sleep though (Europe) and this is going nowhere, so I'm out.
 
I also liked that he was one the few characters that got some backstory explained and even shown in the game.

There are way too many plotholes in the story mode sadly. I mentioned in another thread that it kinda reminded me of X-Men Days of Future Past in some ways. Like the impending threat, sense of doom, uncertainty...but also, because the story assumes you know the characters already so there's not much character development, outside the comics.
 
Positive media representation is a facet of establishing and reinforcing the normalcy of minorities.

I'm not sure what about this is confusing.

Sexuality is important, but not solely defining. Just as race and gender are important, but not solely defining.
and this character is portraied in a good light.
that without going around telling people he is gay or making his sexuality the focus of his role in the story

and anyway..to me gender,race,sexual preference,are all equally unimportant when definying a person..but that's me.
 
what does acclimate mean
begin being accostumed to the idea..i used it with the quote marks because it was an improper use of the word...english is not my first lenguage,so I work with what i have :p
what are you saying that developers should do here
the developers?
who talked about developers?
i was talking about the guys brought in the example of the user i quoted,the ones who thought there were no homosexuals in their workplaces.
 
people keep asking me why i don't want gay characters in games

what the hell?
It's not necessarily that you don't want gay characters in games. It's that you seem to believe that there is no reason at all to even acknowledge their sexuality, even in the most subtle way possible.

Look, I kind of get where you're coming from - if it's normal and accepted then why is it a big deal right?

But the sad thing is, a lot of people still don't see homosexuality as normal or accepted. We are not living in some perfect ideal utopia. Representation, especially something as tastefully done as MKX just did, is still so very important.

I may be speaking for myself but it just seems that the tone of some of your posts is in a fingers-in-ears "lalala, I don't even want to hear about it!" kind of tone. I don't want to pile on too much as I don't want to believe you're coming from a bad place - but trust me when I say that some of the ideas behind your posts come from a very ignorant place.
 
Well, like a lot of other people have already said in the thread, this completely went over my head. I completely misinterpreted the line. I thought "what your heart desires" was referring to Kung Jin's petty robbery, as in he constantly stole from the acedamy and the white lotus society. It completely makes sense rewatching under the actual context, but I guess it just went over my head because...well 2 seconds before I kicked Raiden's ass over Kung Lao's death lol.

Still, this is pretty cool.
Not gonna lie, totally thought it was Erron Black. Glad NRS didn't go the "flamboyant" route.
 
and this character is portraied in a good light.
that without going around telling people he is gay or making his sexuality the focus of his role in the story

and anyway..to me gender,race,sexual preference,are all equally unimportant when definying a person..but that's me.
Strong representation can encompass varying degrees of emphasis on the aspect.
In this instance, it's subtle. And that's perfectly fine. While in others it's more overt, for instance in Left Behind.

But the suggestion that there should only be highly subtle or ambiguous representation is flawed. That it's completely irrelevant. It's essentially the equivalent of Don't Ask, Don't Tell and promotes invisibility rather than normalcy.

As for your last comment, it's basically the mentality that this line pokes fun at: "The movie Selma is about the American civil rights movement, that totally worked and now everything is fine."
 
How does it make a poor job for the public? Given you're arguing against two popular examples like Will and Grace and Dorian, it sounds a lot more like it's affecting you on a personal level than you actually being concerned about how the "public" receives the subject.
will & grace was the example of characters being mostly defined by their sexual preference..i don't know if in the usa that sit-com was seen as a good portrait of homosexuals..here it was considered as stereotypical and kinda offensive.

for dorian I'm talking purely based on how it was described,since i have not played the game,and i just sayed that focusing too much on sexual preference of the character makes them too important and subtract from the idea that "being gay is normal and not a big deal",when you focus much of his storyline about the fact that he is gay.

as i said,I'm talking purely based on what i was wirtten,i don't really know in detaiil how they handled the whole thing.
 
Strong representation can encompass varying degrees of emphasis on the aspect.
In this instance, it's subtle. And that's perfectly fine. While in others it's more overt, for instance in Left Behind.

But the suggestion that there should only be highly subtle or ambiguous representation is flawed. That it's completely irrelevant. It's essentially the equivalent of Don't Ask, Don't Tell and promotes invisibility rather than normalcy.

As for your last comment, it's basically the mentality that this line pokes fun at: "The movie Selma is about the American civil rights movement, that totally worked and now everything is fine."
it can also be more evident..it jjust doesn't need to be the focus,so that it's not seen as special,and thus "different"

basically,if you want to show a gay couple in a rpg party,that's perfectly fine,if they want to focus all their persoonal quest on being accepted ad such or whatever,while fine too,i think it has less of an impact in the grand scheme,in waht is the ultimate goal,erase discrimination based on sexual preferences,thus making them "unimportant" for everyone...
 
And how do you suggest we go about making people know that gays are just as normal as regular people then? We do that by writing them well and putting them into media. That's how. From the looks of it (I haven't played MKX yet), there is nothing wrong with how they've written the character when it comes to his sexuality. We have to start from somewhere.
I just watched a clip from story mode with him and he seems like the type of gay character I've always wanted in media. He comes across as sorted, confident and together. He doesn't fall neatly into the common stereotypes. Check it out if you don't mind mild spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8m2eiZk1oc

It would have been quite amazing for me to see this type of gay character in fiction when I was growing up, and in Mortal Kombat of all things.
 
will & grace was the example of characters being mostly defined by their sexual preference..i don't know if in the usa that sit-com was seen as a good portrait of homosexuals..here it was considered as stereotypical and kinda offensive.

for dorian I'm talking purely based on how it was described,since i have not played the game,and i just sayed that focusing too much on sexual preference of the character makes them too important and subtract from the idea that "being gay is normal and not a big deal",when you focus much of his storyline about the fact that he is gay.

as i said,I'm talking purely based on what i was wirtten,i don't really know in detaiil how they handled the whole thing.
Will and Grace did more for "normalizing" gay people to the public than probably any piece of entertainment. Yes, it was silly and stereotypical, but it was also wildly popular. The character of Jack was over the top but the character of Will was just a relatively normal character that happened to be gay. I mean the show has set pieces in the Smithsonian and is widely cited as one of the big breakthroughs in gay representation in the media.

Sexuality does not define everyone but it can be pretty important to a lot of people. You speak against these examples as you say they are going against "normalizing" homosexuals when they have done more for that cause than most "Oh he's gay too" type of characters will.

Does every character need to be like Dorian? Of course not, but there's nothing inherently negative about it either.
 
It's not necessarily that you don't want gay characters in games. It's that you seem to believe that there is no reason at all to even acknowledge their sexuality, even in the most subtle way possible.
if i said that the developers did a brilliant job with this character...why do you think that i don't want the characters to acknowledge their sexuality in a subtle way,when it's exactly waht happened here? ò_ò

Look, I kind of get where you're coming from - if it's normal and accepted then why is it a big deal right?
bingo

But the sad thing is, a lot of people still don't see homosexuality as normal or accepted. We are not living in some perfect ideal utopia. Representation, especially something as tastefully done as MKX just did, is still so very important.
and by showing them omosexuality as a big deal,we do nothing other than reinforce their vision that it is important and a big factor in differenciate people,which is not.
also,again,i already said i thought the developers made a brilliant job,so of course i'm gonna agree with every good thing you have to say about it..the entire argument started when i said that it was great because it was subtle,and someone said that instead they should have put much more focus on it,otherwise it was not effective,while instead i think it is much more effective this way,than just putting a gay character and put all the spotlight on him..we already had those kinds of characters,and they didn't do very much to bringing us closer to the "goal"
I may be speaking for myself but it just seems that the tone of some of your posts is in a fingers-in-ears "lalala, I don't even want to hear about it!" kind of tone. I don't want to pile on too much as I don't want to believe you're coming from a bad place - but trust me when I say that some of the ideas behind your posts come from a very ignorant place.
oh well,i think the same of some of the ideas i read today,so I think it's fair game..i can live with people disagreeing with me or seeing things differently,i just don't like putting in my mouth things I've never said.
 
Will and Grace did more for "normalizing" gay people to the public than probably any piece of entertainment. Yes, it was silly and stereotypical, but it was also wildly popular. The character of Jack was over the top but the character of Will was just a relatively normal character that happened to be gay. I mean the show has set pieces in the Smithsonian.

Sexuality does not define everyone but it can be pretty important to a lot of people. You speak against these examples as you say they are going against "normalizing" homosexuals when they have done more for that cause than most "Oh he's gay too" type of characters will.

Does every character need to be like Dorian? Of course not, but there's nothing inherently negative about it either.
how many "oh and he/she is gay too" characters do we had really in the last years?
i don't read harry potter,but i think dumbledore was one of those..then..any other?
it's not like we have dozens of those to really measure how effective they are..while we had several of the others,and we are still treating a gay character in a videogame like it's a big deal in 2015.
 
it can also be more evident..it jjust doesn't need to be the focus,so that it's not seen as special,and thus "different"

basically,if you want to show a gay couple in a rpg party,that's perfectly fine,if they want to focus all their persoonal quest on being accepted ad such or whatever,while fine too,i think it has less of an impact in the grand scheme,in waht is the ultimate goal,erase discrimination based on sexual preferences,thus making them "unimportant" for everyone...
Why exactly does it have a lesser impact? How does providing overt positive representations of individuals and relationships within narratives, as well as subtle references, prevent or hinder the establishment of normalcy?

In the overt example I gave, the relationship is very much the focus of a very narrative-driven experience. Did that title serve to improve or hinder the establishment of normalcy?

To put it another way, there are a myriad representations of heterosexual relationships, be they subtle or overt. Mario saves the Princess. Do you not see how these would serve to entrench a definition of normal that excludes certain minorities? It's this prevalence that makes representation of the alternative a "big deal."
 
Why exactly does it have a lesser impact? How does providing overt positive representations of individuals and relationships within narratives, as well as subtle references, prevent or hinder the establishment of normalcy?

In the overt example I gave, the relationship is very much the focus of a very narrative-driven experience. Did that title serve to improve or hinder the establishment of normalcy?
because people who see homosexual as "different" will continue to do so,because as such are showed in the media
and those who have a bad opinion based on said sexual preference,will continue to have them because with their sexuality being the focus,it would felle like they are gonna be lectured..kinda like all those PSA where no one really gives attention because you already know what their ultimate goal will be

you know,the whole "you are gonna put that gay character in the game only as a publicity stunt" kind of argument.

with the subtle ones instead,by gradually introducing them more and more ad they are a normal thing,there's not the same effect,AND you have the added effect to show that their personal preference in terms of mates is unimportant in general.
 
I don't think you quite get that representation doesn't necessarily need to be about convincing swathes of the population with ingrained bigotry of the normalcy of minorities.

It can be just as much about providing positive role models in various media for members of the minority alone. The spectrum from subtle to overt portrayals/emphases on aspects can serve this purpose.

And this doesn't just apply to sexuality.
 
I heard someone say Shaolin was a gay character in Mortal Kombat and thought they were talking about Khan thinking Shaolin was his first name. *Looks up wiki* Oh. His full name's Shao Kahn.
 
Pffft ...... this sounds like some lame form of pandering.

Like when JK Rowlings tried to make Dumbledore gay after the fact. So lame!

Either have a gay character or don't. This half assed implied approach just shows a complete lack of conviction and is nothing more than developer self indulgence.
 
Do not get into a moral discussion here, because each has its, let's just respect.


Just did not want some child exposed to such behavior.
Jesus christ. You people are just coming out the woodwork, aren't ya?

Also I love that in the game where you can literally rip a man's intestines out from his mouth, Kung Jin being gay is what we have the protect the kids from.