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[StalkerUKCG]

So has anyone debunked the Eli=Liquid theory? Liquid would be 12 at the time, We know he spent time in the Afghan aswell

 

[33-Hit-Combo]

So has anyone debunked the Eli=Liquid theory? Liquid would be 12 at the time, We know he spent time in the Afghan aswell

There's nothing to disprove it really! It's definitely him!

 

[Graphics Horse]

Ah HAH! I knew he was pulling a Kojima on this! KojiPro's PR has obviously been taught to say that "the two games make up Metal Gear Solid V together", knowing that people will take that to mean they're on the same disc, but tricksy Kojima is just talking about MGSV in a metaphorical sense, rather than something that's going to appear on store shelves. Now he's been questioned directly and caught out.

That's been the case since the GDC reveal as far as I'm concerned. It was ' "We can't comment just yet on how these things will be distributed and sold' back then.
It's always been clear they are looking at ways of releasing one part before the other, GZ might be bundled together with the second one also, but that's less clear.

 

[Toparaman]

I really like that the trailer makes it clear that it's all about revenge. I think it makes for a much more personal, interesting motive for Big Boss turning bad than some grand noble cause.

 

[Fehyd]

So has anyone debunked the Eli=Liquid theory? Liquid would be 12 at the time, We know he spent time in the Afghan aswell

Apparently there's a large age gap between his youth, and his mission into Iraq where he gets captured. Being a child mercenary is one of the leading explanations for that time period I believe.

 

[BossLackey]

There's nothing to disprove it really! It's definitely him!

I want to make a joke about religion, but I won't.

 

[Raist]

Interesting find about Eli being Liquid
http://art-eater.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/ELI-LIQUID.jpg

Plus this statement from Kojima to me makes me believe Solid is going to be in this one.

Well he's a child... I don't know if I have someone to recommend but let me think! (laughs) At the same time I don't even know if Solid Snake will make an appearance in this game. If we said anything right now it would be a spoiler and bad for the fans, so we're going to stay away from that question.

Link: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/414360/interviews/e3-interview-kojima-on-mgs-5/

Generally if something is not going to happen we don't consider it a spoiler. For example someone says "hey you spoiled the movie because you told me what happens." <-- That is what we generally consider a spoiler.

People normally don't say "hey you spoiled the movie because you told me something that doesn't happen".

Isn't Solidus the oldest one?


edit: nvm he cate after Liquid and Solid.

 

[Gui_PT]

Isn't Solidus the oldest one?

Solidus is the youngest one, but he aged quicker

 

[Celestial Mortal]

I really like that the trailer makes it clear that it's all about revenge. I think it makes for a much more personal, interesting motive for Big Boss turning bad than some grand noble cause.

Leading upto everything like the extreme hatred of Big Boss towards Cipher/

Spoiler

Patriots

.

In MG1, MG2, MGS1, MGS2 and MGS4, we all are seeing one side of the coin, hearing and seeing the story from one side.

The games featuring perspective from Big Boss is now clearing up everything, hence giving a better understanding to the Big Boss character and how he was right all along and we were just

Spoiler

pawns of the Patriots

Too generic/clichéd post?

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Interesting find about Eli being Liquid
http://art-eater.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/ELI-LIQUID.jpg

Plus this statement from Kojima to me makes me believe Solid is going to be in this one.

Well he's a child... I don't know if I have someone to recommend but let me think! (laughs) At the same time I don't even know if Solid Snake will make an appearance in this game. If we said anything right now it would be a spoiler and bad for the fans, so we're going to stay away from that question.

Link: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/414360/interviews/e3-interview-kojima-on-mgs-5/

Generally if something is not going to happen we don't consider it a spoiler. For example someone says "hey you spoiled the movie because you told me what happens." <-- That is what we generally consider a spoiler.

People normally don't say "hey you spoiled the movie because you told me something that doesn't happen".

Well im now sold 200%

I wouldn't be shocked if it hit this year. I mean, MGS4 was 5 years ago now, and if you look at the history of MGS games, that is the largest gap between games ever.



Metal Gear Solid 2: NA November 14, 2001

Metal Gear Solid 3 - NA November 17, 2004

Those are IN November of course, but close enough to December.

November is a perfect time for release in NA. December though is pretty bad, after Black Friday most are finished holiday shopping and are down on money.
If you get out in November you basically have the regulars buying, people buying it as a gift and others buying for people getting a new system around that time.

 

[Gun Animal]

Isn't Solidus the oldest one?


edit: nvm he cate after Liquid and Solid.

Solidus is the youngest, he was engineered to age faster than his brothers. He was cloned separately from the initial eight clones and it can be assumed that Eva is not his surrogate mother.

edit: beaten! drat

edit: i feel like november 2013 would actually be a bad time for MGSV to release because it would be gutted by all the other bigger budgeted, more marketed and more casual AAA games and two brand-new consoles coming out this november. Even if they're ready by then, holding off until December or Q1 2014 would make more sense, right?

also, who the heck is gonna buy MGSV as a christmas present?

 

[Misterinenja]

Interesting find about Eli being Liquid
http://art-eater.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/ELI-LIQUID.jpg

Plus this statement from Kojima to me makes me believe Solid is going to be in this one.

Well he's a child... I don't know if I have someone to recommend but let me think! (laughs) At the same time I don't even know if Solid Snake will make an appearance in this game. If we said anything right now it would be a spoiler and bad for the fans, so we're going to stay away from that question.

Link: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/414360/interviews/e3-interview-kojima-on-mgs-5/

Generally if something is not going to happen we don't consider it a spoiler. For example someone says "hey you spoiled the movie because you told me what happens." <-- That is what we generally consider a spoiler.

People normally don't say "hey you spoiled the movie because you told me something that doesn't happen".

Well they don't speak Arabic in Afghanistan but I guess that's a minor thing.

 

[33-Hit-Combo]

I really like that the trailer makes it clear that it's all about revenge. I think it makes for a much more personal, interesting motive for Big Boss turning bad than some grand noble cause.

The whole revenge vibe is coming from Kaz though. Big Boss only seems to have a few lines in the trailer, and if anything he just sounds exhausted and along for the ride.

 

[Celestial Mortal]

Well they don't speak Arabic in Afghanistan but I guess that's a minor thing.

They speak Pashto/Hindko/farsi(persian) in Afghanistan.

Liquid did spend time in the Middle East hence he picked up Arabic from there.

 

[Red Blaster]

I wouldn't be shocked if it hit this year. I mean, MGS4 was 5 years ago now, and if you look at the history of MGS games, that is the largest gap between games ever.



Metal Gear Solid 2: NA November 14, 2001

Metal Gear Solid 3 - NA November 17, 2004

Those are IN November of course, but close enough to December.

peace walker in 2010

plus kojima had to spend time making the fox engine, mgs5 probably began development in earnest in late 2011

 

[Patriot Infinity]

Liquid Snake spent quite some time in the Middle East, whether it was before his time in the SAS or after, we don't know.

"In the Middle East we don't hunt foxes, we hunt jackels! Instead of foxhounds, we use royal harriers!" - Liquid Snake

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

I repost this sorry: I could translate only 2 words of the persian inscriptions on the wall: " &#1603;&#1608;&#1609; " meaning port lights and " &#1603;&#1608;&#1585;&#1608; " meaning label. The rest of the words are half erased. Is there any native persian speaking here to help us DEcipher the full code?

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Will MGSV have an online multiplayer mode like the previous game?
Yes, we plan on creating Metal Gear Online. Multiplayer right now is being created at our LA studio as well as us. We're working closely to create a vast multiplayer for all the fans.

Is this the first time it has been confirmed?
know it was heavily rumored.

 

[Patriot Infinity]

Is this the first time it has been confirmed?
know it was heavily rumored.

It was hinted at in the KP podcast #3, but this is the first time they flat out said 'yes'.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

It was hinted at in the KP podcast #3, but this is the first time they flat out said 'yes'.

Alright, thanks.

I wish we had a proper MGS1 remake. The original PS version is getting very long in the tooth. Its hard to recommend people to go back and play all the games.

And honestly, Metal Gear Solid deserves a real remake, not the Twin Snakes thing. We're at the point where MGS2 and MGS3 could get the same. Keep em faithful but update them for a new generation.

Metal Gear especially 2 deserves to be remade.

Don't touch MG and MG II, I don't want to deal with retcons for a masterpiece such as MG II.

So many people missing out on the greatness that is Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake because its 'outdated'.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I wish we had a proper MGS1 remake. The original PS version is getting very long in the tooth. Its hard to recommend people to go back and play all the games.

And honestly, Metal Gear Solid deserves a real remake, not the Twin Snakes thing. We're at the point where MGS2 and MGS3 could get the same. Keep em faithful but update them for a new generation.

 

[rvy]

I wish we had a proper MGS1 remake. The original PS version is getting very long in the tooth. Its hard to recommend people to go back and play all the games.

And honestly, Metal Gear Solid deserves a real remake, not the Twin Snakes thing. We're at the point where MGS2 and MGS3 could get the same. Keep em faithful but update them for a new generation.

Go fucking all out and create a Collection with all 4 games remade using FOX Engine. Sell it for 140€. Millions sold.

Bellieve.

Don't touch MG and MG II, I don't want to deal with retcons for a masterpiece such as MG II.

 

[Patriot Infinity]

Go fucking all out and create a Collection with all 4 games remade using FOX Engine. Sell it for 140€. Millions sold.

Bellieve.

Don't touch MG and MG II, I don't want to deal with retcons for a masterpiece such as MG II.

MG1 and 2 should definitely be remade.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Go fucking all out and create a Collection with all 4 games remade using FOX Engine. Sell it for 140€. Millions sold.

Bellieve.

Don't touch MG and MG II, I don't want to deal with retcons for a masterpiece such as MG II.

But is it even possible to update all the textures?



MGS1 is so old now, it would mean new animations, and a new engine as well. Prob the same with MGS2 and 3!? I just wish they could outsource it to some studio, telling them not to change anything except bringing it up to new graphical standards.


There was so many things in Twin Snakes that pissed me off. Jumping on missiles, removing the best music and so on:I

 

[Solo]

peace walker in 2010

plus kojima had to spend time making the fox engine, mgs5 probably began development in earnest in late 2011

I'm assuming that Peace Walker was made by another team while the MGS team was at work on the Fox Engine/MGSV since 2010 or so.

Of course I'm probably wrong.

Don't touch MG and MG II, I don't want to deal with retcons for a masterpiece such as MG II.

It's Kojima. Not only is he going to remake them, but he's going to retcon the shit out of them when he does it :lol

 

[RELIGHT]

Kojima, you just sold the PS4. Congrats.

 

[Patriot Infinity]

But is it even possible to update all the textures

That would be pointless. They would have to remake it from scratch in the FOX engine.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

But is it even possible to update all the textures?

I don't think it would be crazy for MGS1 at least.
Snake & Gray Fox are done already, Liquid, Ocelot, Mei Ling and Otacon would be easy updates as far as characters go.
Just take the Twin Snake map with some new textures in.

 

[duckroll]

I'm assuming that Peace Walker was made by another team while the MGS team was at work on the Fox Engine/MGSV since 2010 or so.

Of course I'm probably wrong.

Peace Walker was made by the core MGS4 team. I think after MGS4, the big team split into:

- Peace Walker development
- Fox Engine development
- Metal Gear Solid Rising development

MGS5 absolutely did not exist in any form until some time after Peace Walker was completely done. The guys who failed at making the original Rising are probably in a freezer somewhere in the Konami dungeons now.

 

[Patriot Infinity]

The guys who failed at making the original Rising are probably in a freezer somewhere in the Konami dungeons now.

Which they should be. Having come up with a good idea (playing as Raiden rescuing Sunny before the events of MGS4), failing to finish it, having it be outsourced, and then changing the story to post MGS4

Spoiler

after Raiden had a real ending like Snake did

with the dumbest writing in the series is punishable by death.

 

[Mr. RHC]

Well, MGS:Rising was not randomly rebranded Revengeance if I recall correctly, it is an allusion to the failed development.

 

[SnakeLinkSonic]

Meme> Gene > Scene > Sense > Race & Revenge

Happy about MGO coming back.

Not surprised about Kojima flatout dodging the question of whether or not the game sequences (Ground Zeros & The Phantom Pan) will be released separately.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Yes, except that it's MGS 2: Sons of Liberty for me.

Nobody is probably going to believe me (and I don't blame them, because I wouldn't believe it either) but I've played the Tanker section likely about over a hundred times, and I've played through the full game probably around half of that. I remember the Summer after its release was the biggest proponent of that. I would just do speed-run after speed-run, I never got bored. I kept seeing how fast I could get through the Tanker especially; I really wish I could remember my times, but I remember telling my friend and he didn't believe me until I actually showed him. I fucking love that game. If I had to say, I've probably played it more than a dozen times with all the story stuff as well. That game was pretty much all I played in 2002. I was completely hooked on it, and I loved every minute of it. It was a game I could always come back to as the years went on, and I played that game almost every way possible.

I remember being so jealous of Substance back in the day. I think it was the main reason that got me to buy an Xbox. I loved that too. Ironically I actually liked my Xbox way more than my PS2, and I found it almost solely due to MGS.

In fact, MGS is the reason I'm here posting on a gaming forum. I had gamed through the NES on, but I never had a major passion and love for the whole industry like I did after playing MGS2. I was completely entranced by the medium, and have been following it very closely ever since. MGS2 basically was what games could be to me.

There's just something about this series...I'm not trying to rag on other people's tastes, but I just don't usually like modern Japanese games in comparison to Western games. I've tried getting into JRPG's and shoot-em-ups, but they're just not for me. There's obviously a lot of exceptions, but over the years I've come to enjoy Wester games more. With that said, MGS just transcends all of that for me. It never feels like a Japanese or a Western game. It feels like its own entity. It's the only series I will buy hardware for, it's the only series I'll do a lot of research for (MGS 2 was my first game in the series, and I hate when people say there are plot holes, because I was a newbie and took the time to do the research and I found that pretty much most of it can be explained), it's the only series that I really know I must have on day one no matter what happens. I just love it.

Seeing this trailer has made me so happy, because it has rekindled that spark I haven't had since MGS4. While I really love MGS4, like any game it had its flaws. This seems to be the best of both worlds, and everything (besides some voice acting, but that's taste and tradition) seems like an improvement by leaps and bounds. Everyone is excited again, and Kojima seems to have a game of the show on his hands.

In short, it's good to be a Metal Gear fan, and I'm glad we're all enjoying how great MGSV is shaping up to be.

I can pretty much claim this post for myself, too. Nearly word for word.

 

[Catalix]

I have high hopes for this game. That trailer set the tone perfectly.

The whole revenge vibe is coming from Kaz though. Big Boss only seems to have a few lines in the trailer, and if anything he just sounds exhausted and along for the ride.

That's actually one thing I really don't like about the prequels. They make Big Boss out to be so ignorant and passive. It seems like it's all the other people throughout his life that have compelling ideals and show initiative (The Boss, Gene, Miller...). It ends up making Big Boss less and less interesting with each passing game, imo.

At least PW showed brief glimpes that the guy might actually have a mind of his own, but that only makes me crave more of that.

 

[Patriot Infinity]

That's actually one thing I really don't like about the prequels. They make Big Boss out to be so ignorant and passive. It seems like it's all the other people throughout his life that have compelling ideals and show initiative (The Boss, Gene, Miller...). It ends up making Big Boss less and less interesting with each passing game, imo.

At least PW showed brief glimpes that the guy might actually have a mind of his own, but that only makes me crave more of that.

I doubt they're making Big Boss a follower. I somehow think Big Boss is just going to reach the end of a plateau and snap.

 

[Mr. RHC]

At least PW showed brief glimpes that the guy might actually have a mind of his own, but that only makes me crave more of that.

"Ain't nobody got time for running Mother Base, Millr will handle the job, I gotta get out and do all of dem secret operations on my own, beside the fact that I have 150 idle soldiers back home at the base... but I'm a LIVING LEGEND....


HEY HUEY, where is the Love Box I was requesting?? Kaz, Love Box time!"

 

[matrix-cat]

That's actually one thing I really don't like about the prequels. They make Big Boss out to be so ignorant and passive. It seems like it's all the other people throughout his life that have compelling ideals and show initiative (The Boss, Gene, Miller...). It ends up making Big Boss less and less interesting with each passing game, imo.

I'm hoping this was just a writing phase Kojima was going through, because honestly MGS4 is the exact same way. Snake just does what other people tell him - he never shows an ounce of initiative or really any personal motivation. He never even tries to argue with Liquid. The most backbone he ever shows is telling off Meryl when she calls Campbell an asshole.

Big Boss has always seemed to just fall ass-backwards into leadership, especially now that Kaz is there to organise everything for him. Hopefully we'll see Big Boss finally start asserting himself in this game.

 

[Izick]

Isn't Snake's motivation to "do" rather than "say" in MGS4 though? He's really this old, worn-down soldier that's putting up one last fight. I don't think he really even has the energy to argue anymore. He just does what he thinks is right, and sets an example for the future.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

With Paz and Chico returning I wonder what kinda role Amanda will have?
I just can't see Kojima bringing her back to kill her off, unlike Chico or Paz.

Cécile probably won't return. Though Strangelove is a toss up.

 

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

Peace Walker was made by the core MGS4 team. I think after MGS4, the big team split into:

- Peace Walker development
- Fox Engine development
- Metal Gear Solid Rising development

MGS5 absolutely did not exist in any form until some time after Peace Walker was completely done. The guys who failed at making the original Rising are probably in a freezer somewhere in the Konami dungeons now.

Shigenobu Matsuyama and Mineshi Kimura are probably janitors along with IGA now :lol

 

[Patriot Infinity]

Isn't Snake's motivation to "do" rather than "say" in MGS4 though? He's really this old, worn-down soldier that's putting up one last fight. I don't think he really even has the energy to argue anymore. He just does what he thinks is right, and sets an example for the future.

Exactly. I never got the vibe that Snake just does what he's told nor has a backbone of his own.

 

[thesuperfunk]

Is this the first time it has been confirmed?
know it was heavily rumored.

Threadworthy!

 

[Gun Animal]

Can we talk about "what they're working on in Africa" ? A weapon to surpass metal gear? If it's something that's already been seen in some form in the Metal Gear universe, I'm gonna say that the possible candidates are A) VR Training (what could surpass metal gear? a machine that can turn anyone into a trained killer with no outside support), B) the Cyborg Exoskeleton (which would explain Huey's involvement), C) Les Enfants Terribles. (Q: What's the only weapon strong enough (at this point) to destroy a Metal Gear, Shagohod or other mech? A: Big Boss.) or D) Some kind of AI (maybe the first iteration of the Patriot AI?)

With Paz and Chico returning I wonder what kinda role Amanda will have?
I just can't see Kojima bringing her back to kill her off, unlike Chico or Paz.

Cécile probably won't return. Though Strangelove is a toss up.

If what they're working on in Africa is VR or AI I could see Strangelove returning. As for Amanda, I think it'll be assumed that she died during the attack on Mother Base. Maybe she'll get an honorable mention in a codec call.

 

[Catalix]

I doubt they're making Big Boss a follower. I somehow think Big Boss is just going to reach the end of a plateau and snap.

Sure, they may very well show that this time around. But I think it's taken far too long for the character to show that charismatic spark.

I'm hoping this was just a writing phase Kojima was going through, because honestly MGS4 is the exact same way. Snake just does what other people tell him - he never shows an ounce of initiative or really any personal motivation. He never even tries to argue with Liquid. The most backbone he ever shows is telling off Meryl when she calls Campbell an asshole.

Big Boss has always seemed to just fall ass-backwards into leadership, especially now that Kaz is there to organise everything for him. Hopefully we'll see Big Boss finally start asserting himself in this game.

For sure. Old Snake had the exact same backseat passenger mentality in MGS4. I personally find that take on the character super frustrating.

Hopefully you're right about it merely being a temporary crutch that Kojima was using to write those stories. MGSV has tons of potential to explore a more complicated and driven side of Big Boss's persona.

 

[RK9039]

Can we talk about "what they're working on in Africa" ? A weapon to surpass metal gear? If it's something that's already been seen in some form in the Metal Gear universe, I'm gonna say that the possible candidates are A) VR Training (what could surpass metal gear? a machine that can turn anyone into a trained killer with no outside support), B) the Cyborg Exoskeleton (which would explain Huey's involvement), C) Les Enfants Terribles. (Q: What's the only weapon strong enough (at this point) to destroy a Metal Gear, Shagohod or other mech? A: Big Boss.) or D) Some kind of AI (maybe the first iteration of the Patriot AI?)



If what they're working on in Africa is VR or AI I could see Strangelove returning. As for Amanda, I think it'll be assumed that she died during the attack on Mother Base. Maybe she'll get an honorable mention in a codec call.

I think it's the start of the Patriot AI.

 

[matrix-cat]

Isn't Snake's motivation to "do" rather than "say" in MGS4 though? He's really this old, worn-down soldier that's putting up one last fight. I don't think he really even has the energy to argue anymore. He just does what he thinks is right, and sets an example for the future.

Compare MGS4 Snake to MGS2's badass, take-charge Snake, who calls the bad guys out on their bullshit and won't take orders from nobody. Old Snake's massive change in demeanour is certainly an intentional thing from Kojima, I just think he took it way too far. At times in that game Snake just comes off as a moron. He falls right back into the repeating-the-last-word-said-to-him-and-adding-a-question-mark stereotype from MGS1.

 

[duckroll]

Can we talk about "what they're working on in Africa" ? A weapon to surpass metal gear? If it's something that's already been seen in some form in the Metal Gear universe, I'm gonna say that the possible candidates are A) VR Training (what could surpass metal gear? a machine that can turn anyone into a trained killer with no outside support), B) the Cyborg Exoskeleton (which would explain Huey's involvement), C) Les Enfants Terribles. (Q: What's the only weapon strong enough (at this point) to destroy a Metal Gear, Shagohod or other mech? A: Big Boss.) or D) Some kind of AI (maybe the first iteration of the Patriot AI?)

Going with C. The weapon to surpass Metal Gear are the Sons of Big Boss. We've already seen it in practice. The countermeasure definitely works! What's they're specifically working on in Africa might be the conditioning and training of child soldiers. Dali pointed out earlier in the thread that all the African child soldiers are the same model. He could be on to something there. It's the "missing piece" because they already have the Snakes as children, but they might not know how to best make use of what they are.

 

[Toparaman]

That's actually one thing I really don't like about the prequels. They make Big Boss out to be so ignorant and passive. It seems like it's all the other people throughout his life that have compelling ideals and show initiative (The Boss, Gene, Miller...). It ends up making Big Boss less and less interesting with each passing game, imo.

But isn't that one of the main points Kojima tries to make? "The man is no match for the legend." You think Big Boss (and Solid Snake, to a lesser extent) is a legendary bad-ass, until you realize that he's just a pawn, turned into a legend by government/military propaganda.

Compare MGS4 Snake to MGS2's badass, take-charge Snake, who calls the bad guys out on their bullshit and won't take orders from nobody. Old Snake's massive change in demeanour is certainly an intentional thing from Kojima, I just think he took it way too far. At times in that game Snake just comes off as a moron. He falls right back into the repeating-the-last-word-said-to-him-and-adding-a-question-mark stereotype from MGS1.

In MGS4, Snake just seems too stressed out about his accelerated aging and bad health to really take his own initiative. Can't blame him.

 

[Catalix]

Can we talk about "what they're working on in Africa" ? A weapon to surpass metal gear? If it's something that's already been seen in some form in the Metal Gear universe, I'm gonna say that the possible candidates are A) VR Training (what could surpass metal gear? a machine that can turn anyone into a trained killer with no outside support), B) the Cyborg Exoskeleton (which would explain Huey's involvement), C) Les Enfants Terribles. (Q: What's the only weapon strong enough (at this point) to destroy a Metal Gear, Shagohod or other mech? A: Big Boss.) or D) Some kind of AI (maybe the first iteration of the Patriot AI?)

I think all those are pretty good guesses. The Snake clones, VR training, or the beginnings of Zero's AI network seem to fit.

Hell, the Arsenal Gear project might have been in the works for decades.

 

[Izick]

Going with C. The weapon to surpass Metal Gear are the Sons of Big Boss. We've already seen it in practice. The countermeasure definitely works!

Not to mention "Eli" seems to be somewhere. Not sure if it was in Afghanistan or Africa. If it's the latter, then that works with the idea of the "weapon that can destroy Metal Gear."

Compare MGS4 Snake to MGS2's badass, take-charge Snake, who calls the bad guys out on their bullshit and won't take orders from nobody. Old Snake's massive change in demeanour is certainly an intentional thing from Kojima, I just think he took it way too far. At times in that game Snake just comes off as a moron. He falls right back into the repeating-the-last-word-said-to-him-and-adding-a-question-mark stereotype from MGS1.

That's fair, but I think it was mostly effective in conveying his "I've given up talking, all I have left is to do" kind of attitude in MGS4.