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[dcmk7]

Not while it's pushing RTGI at 60 fps. That's why your Switch comparisons come off as trolling.

Switch and XSS are entirely different consoles.

To be so insecure about a comparison on resolution (just resolution) says a lot about you.

Not a single post of mine would I ever say both platforms are competing with each other. I just don't think the resolution is impressive... on both systems. Sorry that upsets you, but it is just an opinion.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

To be so insecure about a comparison on resolution (just resolution) says a lot about you.

Has nothing to do with insecurity, I just called out your trolling. When you compare something while cutting out literally all the context, you're either extremely ignorant or trolling.

Not a single post of mine would I ever say both platforms are competing with each other. I just don't think the resolution is impressive... on both systems. Sorry that upsets you, but it is just an opinion.

It's one thing to say that you don't find the resolution impressive. It's another to make nonsense comparisons. Next time compare it to the Vita for a bigger effect

 

[Thirty7ven]

People need to learn that Gamepass is a core part of the XSS deal. If you're about saving money, PS5 DE might still be a great deal for 400 bucks, but spending 70 bucks per game on the digital store isn't.

Then don't, wait for sales like xbox dudes wait for games to hit gamepass. Case solved.

Also for people who are in it to play the likes of AC, COD, FIFA, you know the biggest games, how much is gamepass worth to them? The series S is cheap but low value for the intended audience (non enthusiasts who really only buy the big releases).

You can wax lyrical all you want, but in the end people vote with their wallets and it seems the buffet queue isn't that long.

 

[Unknown?]

People need to learn that Gamepass is a core part of the XSS deal. If you're about saving money, PS5 DE might still be a great deal for 400 bucks, but spending 70 bucks per game on the digital store isn't.

If you don't plan on buying games, maybe, but I keep hearing that gamepass increases buying. So by the end of the gen you've either bought the games you were going to buy anyway(and more because you got to try them) but you've also spent hundreds of dollars on a subscription you wouldn't have had to do otherwise.

The other scenario is you didn't buy games because they were on gamepass but you've spent MORE than the console itself in 3 years(and significantly more than double the console by the time the next gen comes around) with absolutely nothing to show for it, no ownership at all. You don't even have the benefit of cheap secondhand games.

 

[dcmk7]

The promise is to play next gen games on a budget. That's exactly what the XSS delivers. How compromised the games are is quite subjective. PS5 and XSX games look compromised compared to PC versions. It is what it is.

But it's compromised next gen (console) games. Normally there is only one version per console, this time, for one platform there are two.

PC games are always going to be superior though. No escaping that. I'm jealous of Metro Exodus on PC.

But when more and more games are released for XSS without ray-tracing, a next gen feature - something XSS is capable of and was included in all marketing material - it is going to seem even more unfair to the owners.

And it's not future proof, its supposed to last a long time but if someone upgrades to a 4k TV. They need get a new console to take advantage of it.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The other scenario is you didn't buy games because they were on gamepass but you've spent MORE than the console itself in 3 years with absolutely nothing to show for it. No ownership and you don't even get to get the benefit of cheap secondhand games.

Nothing to show for it... except for 3 years of playing games? Games also massively devalue over time, which means ownership isn't that big of a deal.

Also not sure why you're mentioning secondhand games when you're comparing digital consoles.

 

[Three]

I already addressed that, and you know it, so what's your point? This isn't the gotcha you think it is.

I edited my post already as I read older comments. You were too fast though. I love how they have put a custom logo for "disc free gaming" on the Series S as if you have gained something instead of lost a feature

 

[Unknown?]

Nothing to show for it... except for 3 years of playing games? Games also massively devalue over time, which means ownership isn't that big of a deal.

Also not sure why you're mentioning secondhand games when you're comparing digital consoles.

Lol. If you say so.

As far as secondhand games, it's a negative for both digital only consoles and something someone with a budget needs to keep in mind.

 

[dcmk7]

Has nothing to do with insecurity, I just called out your trolling. When you compare something while cutting out literally all the context, you're either extremely ignorant or trolling.

It's one thing to say that you don't find the resolution impressive. It's another to make nonsense comparisons. Next time compare it to the Vita for a bigger effect

You added your own unique take on my comparison. That's on you. And subsequently because you convinced yourself of this.. you think I'm trolling. I get it now.

But not once did I say XSS is competing with the Switch though, did I?

Sorry it upset you though but definitely wasn't trolling, just countering a claim and expressing my dislike for the resolution XSS is outputting at (on some titles).

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Then don't, wait for sales like xbox dudes wait for games to hit gamepass. Case solved.

First party releases day one, and we're also getting some big 3rd partys to do that too. No need to wait.

Also for people who are in it to play the likes of AC, COD, FIFA, you know the biggest games, how much is gamepass worth to them? The series S is cheap but low value for the intended audience (non enthusiasts who really only buy the big releases).

Yeah, if you only play FIFA and nothing else, you don't need Gamepass. EA Play is still nice to have though.

You can wax lyrical all you want, but in the end people vote with their wallets and it seems the buffet queue isn't that long.

The intended audience doesn't need an XSS right now. They can stick to their old consoles until next gen starts.

 

[dcmk7]

The intended audience doesn't need an XSS right now. They can stick to their old consoles until next gen starts.

This I agree with.

X1X is still a bit of a beast.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Lol. If you say so.

It's objectively true. The game you purchased 3 years ago is worth pennies unless it's a Nintendo first party game or some rare exception like COD.

As far as secondhand games, it's a negative for both digital only consoles and something someone with a budget needs to keep in mind.

True, one could argue that if you're on a budget, you might be better off paying 500 bucks for a new console.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I edited my post already as I read older comments. You were too fast though. I love how they have put a custom logo for "disc free gaming" on the Series S as if you have gained something instead of lost a feature

Disc free gaming is the best. I haven't used the disc drive in my XSX even once. It's entirely useless to me

 

[Fafalada]

I agree. I have mentioned that SFS is a more robust solution that was implemented through hardware feature, and not rely on software.

Yes - it's hw acceleration for queries that typically required full or partial software approach. But I wanted to emphasize SF doesn't enforce a particular implementation/heuristics approach. You can use the feedback in the best way it makes sense for your given application, you're not stuck with 'next frame or bust'. The demo MS showcased is just an example, not the be-all/end-all of use-cases for PRT/SFS.

 

[Thirty7ven]

First party releases day one, and we're also getting some big 3rd partys to do that too. No need to wait.

Yeah, if you only play FIFA and nothing else, you don't need Gamepass. EA Play is still nice to have though.

The intended audience doesn't need an XSS right now. They can stick to their old consoles until next gen starts.

It's great that for Xbox fans, the games they already liked will be available day 1 on gamepass, yes.

It's not just FIFA, look at the top selling list year by year... how many of those were MS games? How many of those are franchises that aren't and won't be day 1 on gamepasss?

The intended audience for the XSS are the more casual gamers who typically wait before jumping onto a new console generation. That's why it's 299$... so your theory doesn't make much sense. What I'm seeing a lot though are XSS owners playing on monitors, and it's a good option for kids who want a Xbox but have parents that are price sensitive. On the later, I wonder how big that market is, because that's Nintendo switch ground, and it's hard to beat a portable.

 

[Godfavor]

This simply isn't true. It was about RAM savings even in the past. Never about performance. If anything it sacrifices a small bit of performance for RAM savings in the past whereas now it saves both. Rage ran on a HDD but still used tiled resources with PRT.

The granite middleware for Unreal Engine runs on PS4 and xbox one and does essentially what 'SFS' does.

Granite SDK | Graphine | Texture streaming and compression middleware

Stay ahead with advanced texture streaming

graphinesoftware.com

Yes there were ram savings in the past, but still most of the tiled textures were in memory as HDD are too slow. I just talked about performance as the gpu would have to shade whole polygons on screen that part of them are not visible.

About UE, I am not arguing that there are not any other software solutions that replicate what SFS could do. SFS/PRT+ is just a hardware solution that is on API level.

 

[Unknown?]

It's objectively true. The game you purchased 3 years ago is worth pennies unless it's a Nintendo first party game or some rare exception like COD.

True, one could argue that if you're on a budget, you might be better off paying 500 bucks for a new console.

The value of that penniless game is you don't need to keep paying for it to play it when you want to go back to it

 

[ethomaz]

The QA could had a question about why the new RT lighting made the game too brighter.
In a lot of places the old lighting is better... the game lose a lot of the atmosphere with the new one.

 

[Lysandros]

Does it really matter which box is RDNA 2 vs Full RDNA 2 (whatever that means)? Everyone knows that, all things being equal, the Series X will perform slightly better than PS5. This is assuming things like API, optimization etc are all the same (which they are not).

Why?.. It's very possible that a specific game's engine being more fill rate and/or rasterization bound will perform slightly better on PS5 for example (even excluding the API/optimization differences). We had quite a few games performing slightly better on PS5 at same resolution/IQ in past months.

 

[dcmk7]

The QA could had a question about why the new RT lighting made the game too brighter.
In a lot of places the old lighting is better... the game lose a lot of the atmosphere with the new one.

Does it? Haven't had a chance to see this for myself in action.

From all videos I have seen it looks impressive and atmospheric.

 

[abel empire]

Now you're stating your opinion as fact and that's when you need a reality check.

A technique called Sampler Feedback Streaming - SFS - was built to more closely marry the memory demands of the GPU, intelligently loading in the texture mip data that's actually required with the guarantee of a lower quality mip available if the higher quality version isn't readily available, stopping GPU stalls and frame-time spikes. Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips, on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later

"We will be exploring how we can use it in future titles to both increase the texture detail in our game beyond what we can fit into memory, as well as reduce load times further by increasing on-demand loading to just before we need it, instead of pre-loading everything up-front as we would use a more traditional ‘level loading’ approach.”
The Coalition.

“We were able to create and add new capabilities to the Xbox Series X GPU which enables it to only load the sub-portions of a mip level into memory, on-demand, just in time for when the GPU requires the data. This innovation results in approximately 2.5x the effective I/O throughput and memory usage above and beyond the raw hardware capabilities on average”

"Sampler Feedback Streaming (SMS) allows us to load textures and makes the SSD drive act as a multiplier of physical memory that adds to the memory that the machine itself has,”

That being said, games have been streaming virtual memory pages for a while. It's called Partially Resident Textures. Using Sampler Feedback to trigger page reads is sort of the "new hotness".

This is the next level of PRT, its the same principle but much better and is not the same tech. It would be like comparing a HDD to a SSD same principle but better in every conceivable way. Opinions are fine but state as such, you have very little understanding of what you're talking about yet you state it as fact.

You are explaining what virtual texturing is with a looong post full of buzz words, sfs is simply an enhancement of prt and has existed in amd gpus for a decade.

So it isnt some new alien technology that you keep worshipping you guys sound like brainwashed minions of spencer hes got you fooled.

 

[ethomaz]

Does it? Haven't had a chance to see this for myself in action.

From all videos I have seen it looks impressive and atmospheric.

Yeap you can watch the first DF video comparison... the colors are too brighter.
You probably can work with some TV calibration but I don't think it will resolve the issue.
The old lighting while not that impressive and probably way inaccurate looked better overall.

In fact if you have the game just load a new save with nighttime and due the new lighting it will looks like you are in a daytime.

 

[Negotiator101]

You are explaining what virtual texturing is with a looong post full of buzz words, sfs is simply an enhancement of prt and has existed in amd gpus for a decade.

So it isnt some new alien technology that you keep worshipping you guys sound like brainwashed minions of spencer hes got you fooled.

It's an advanced version of a similar tech but it's not the same, no one is saying it's completely unlike anything else. All existing and new tech are advanced versions of older tech, it would be very rare to find something totally new. You need to remove the bias from your opinion and realise both Microsoft and Sony have exciting tech built into these systems, and neither have had these features used to their fullest capability.

 

[abel empire]

It's an advanced version of a similar tech but it's not the same, no one is saying it's completely unlike anything else. All existing and new tech are advanced versions of older tech, it would be very rare to find something totally new. You need to remove the bias from your opinion and realise both Microsoft and Sony have exciting tech built into these systems, and neither have had these features used to their fullest capability.

It is not bias its just pure explanation of the technique its simply virtual texturing this is simply 2014 dejavu when microsoft claimed tiled resources and sram was going to close the gap to ps4

 

[XSXRDNA2]

Is it though?

The senior hardware director just randomly calls himself David 8K Prien? While posting pictures of prototype hardware with 8K printed on it? Same hardware that Phil Spencer said was capable of 8K, 8K written on the box as a feature? Its not an advertisement made to inform people that the hardware they are purchasing is capable of 8K?

well, this is a dumb argument. It says 4k gaming on the box then goes on to say up to 8k as in streaming video etc. for reference ori and the will of the wisps runs at 6k60/4k120 on XSX without using next gen features.
ps5 has limited hdmi output.

 

[XSXRDNA2]

This simply isn't true. It was about RAM savings even in the past. Never about performance. If anything it sacrifices a small bit of performance for RAM savings in the past whereas now it saves both. Rage ran on a HDD but still used tiled resources with PRT.

The granite middleware for Unreal Engine runs on PS4 and xbox one and does essentially what 'SFS' does.

Granite SDK | Graphine | Texture streaming and compression middleware

Stay ahead with advanced texture streaming

graphinesoftware.com

Granite does not do what SFS does it is completely in software unless...(ill get to this) which requires cpu time. SFS is hardware based and ONLY on XS consoles. Not even PC is capable of SFS. SF yes but not SFS.

sampler feedback streaming can be used to accelerate granite via the hardware present on XS...SFS can be used as accelerator for virtual texturing like RT cores are to ray tracing.

SFS has a hardware component on the GPU of the XS to alleviate pop in that can plague technologies like it(PRT,SVT, etc) at times.

 

[Three]

Granite does not do what SFS does it is completely in software unless...(ill get to this) which requires cpu time. SFS is hardware based and ONLY on XS consoles. Not even PC is capable of SFS. SF yes but not SFS.

sampler feedback streaming can be used to accelerate granite via the hardware present on XS...SFS can be used as accelerator for virtual texturing like RT cores are to ray tracing.

SFS has a hardware component on the GPU of the XS to alleviate pop in that can plague technologies like it(PRT,SVT, etc) at times.

PC does have SFS. It's not exactly as low latency at the moment without direct storage but SFS isn't dependent on it. I'm well aware that Granite does some things in software. This was my point. People are saying SFS and Mesh shaders will alleviate low and slow RAM issues. It won't if you already have your own custom geometry pipelines or PRT+, even middleware like Granite. It will only save you CPU time and in a game where you are GPU bound and the generation your game was written for has a weak Jaguar those things will do very little for the project other than give your devs a headache for implementing something just for the sake of implementing it. It will not make your 512p drops suddenly 1080p.

 

[XSXRDNA2]

You are explaining what virtual texturing is with a looong post full of buzz words, sfs is simply an enhancement of prt and has existed in amd gpus for a decade.

So it isnt some new alien technology that you keep worshipping you guys sound like brainwashed minions of spencer hes got you fooled.

virtual texturing is SOFTWARE BASED hence why its called SOFTWARE VIRTUAL TEXTURING unless accelerated by HW like SFS. PRT has hardware but has limitations.
1. PRT did not allow the dev to see what was going on with the data, so even things you didn't need were loaded and devs could use a best guess approach for what was next.
2. PRT did not have the HW texture filters ONLY present in the XS consoles
3. PRT is slower than SFS

SFS IS HARDWARE BASED...SFS can be used to accelerate virtual texturing. PRT is old...SF came after that...prt+ SF came after that and now we are at SFS.

SFS is quantifiable with a 2.5x on average EFFECTIVE ram capacity increase and a multiplier of I/O speed. MS say SFS only uses 33% of texture data that would otherwise be used.
for example:

if the PS5 had to load/stream 14 GB of texture data the XS would only have to 4.66 GB to load/stream.

time to load/stream 14 GB of texture data:

PS5: 14 GB@ 17.3 GB/s (MAX realistic speed with OT) =0.81 seconds
14GB @ 22/GB/s (Unrealistic speed)= 0.63 seconds

XSX: 4.66 GB(SFS 14 GB equivalent) @ 4.8 GB/s (minimum speed) =0.97 seconds
4.66 GB @6.1+ GB/s=0.76 seconds (assumed maximum speed as MS said beyond 6 GB/S for the decom block and 4.8 GB/s was the "worst case scenario" speed)


as you can see, they are about equal in this scenario however the advantage goes more in favor of the XS the more it has to load/ stream and it can load more into ram. SFS gives the XSX 33.75 GB of EFFECTIVE usable RAM capacity.

STREAMING 20GB FOR EXAMPLE:

PS5: 20GB @ 17.3 GB/s (MAX realistic speed with OT) =1.15 seconds
@ 22GB/s(Unrealistic speed)= 0.90 seconds

PS5 MUST STREAM THE 20 GB
-----------------------------------------------------
XSX: 6.66 GB(SFS) @ 4.8 GB/s (minimum speed) = 1.38 seconds
@6.1 GB/s= 1.09 seconds (assumed maximum speed as MS said beyond 6 GB/S for the decom block and 4.8 GB/s was the "worst case scenario" speed)

XSX CAN LOAD THE 6.6 GB 2.5 TIMES AND/OR STREAM at the same visual quality as PS which means you can POTENTALLY get higher quality on XS

 

[XSXRDNA2]

PC does have SFS. It's not exactly as low latency at the moment without direct storage but SFS isn't dependent on it. I'm well aware that Granite does some things in software. This was my point. People are saying SFS and Mesh shaders will alleviate low and slow RAM issues. It won't if you already have your own custom geometry pipelines or PRT+, even middleware like Granite. It will only save you CPU time and in a game where you are GPU bound and the generation your game was written for has a weak Jaguar those things will do very little for the project other than give your devs a headache for implementing something just for the sake of implementing it. It will not make your 512p drops suddenly 1080p.

THIS IS INCORRECT SFS is ONLY on XS consoles. SF is on PC, but not SFS they are different, but similar. SFS WILL alleviate RAM issues as it is a multiplier or RAM. 2.5 times effective in fact. so that gives the XSX 33.75 GB of EFFECTIVE ram AND XSS will have an EFFECTIVE ram capacity of 18.75 GB.


FROM MICROSOFT:

"This innovation results in approximately 2.5x the effective I/O throughput and memory usage above and beyond the raw hardware capabilities on average. SFS provides an effective multiplier on available system memory and I/O bandwidth, resulting in significantly more memory and I/O throughput available to make your game richer and more immersive."

The difference between SF and SFS:




SFS is faster than SF alone for data that aren't in memory yet

 

[XSXRDNA2]

PC does have SFS. It's not exactly as low latency at the moment without direct storage but SFS isn't dependent on it. I'm well aware that Granite does some things in software. This was my point. People are saying SFS and Mesh shaders will alleviate low and slow RAM issues. It won't if you already have your own custom geometry pipelines or PRT+, even middleware like Granite. It will only save you CPU time and in a game where you are GPU bound and the generation your game was written for has a weak Jaguar those things will do very little for the project other than give your devs a headache for implementing something just for the sake of implementing it. It will not make your 512p drops suddenly 1080p.

Mesh shaders will speed up the GPU significantly. on PC mesh shaders ALONE are seeing anywhere from a 500%(old driver)-1800%(new driver) improvement in frame rate at the same resolution on RDNA 2 cards. THE OLD CONSOLES CANT DO SF OR SFS as far as I know.

 

[ZehDon]

It is not bias its just pure explanation of the technique its simply virtual texturing this is simply 2014 dejavu when microsoft claimed tiled resources and sram was going to close the gap to ps4

Sampler Feedback Streaming ("SFS") is not "simply virtual texturing". I'd suggest learning about these concepts before attempting to "inform" someone.

SFS takes the concept of partially resident textures and uses new hardware-backed features to effortlessly acquire and relay information about what aspects of a streamed texture the GPU actually used - hence the "feedback" portion of its name. This is a crucial addition that allows incredibly intelligent decisions about what needs to be loaded and stored. SFS has its own patent separate from PRT because its an entirely different beast. SFS requires hardware support for shader model 6_5; attempting to equate a modern hardware-backed feature with an old software implementable concept, like PRT, comes across as pretty silly. It's the equivalent of saying "hardware accelerated ray traced global illumination is just idTech 2's pre-baked lightmaps by another name".

 

[abel empire]

Sampler Feedback Streaming ("SFS") is not "simply virtual texturing". I'd suggest learning about these concepts before attempting to "inform" someone.

SFS takes the concept of partially resident textures and uses new hardware-backed features to effortlessly acquire and relay information about what aspects of a streamed texture the GPU actually used - hence the "feedback" portion of its name. This is a crucial addition that allows incredibly intelligent decisions about what needs to be loaded and stored. SFS has its own patent separate from PRT because its an entirely different beast. SFS requires hardware support for shader model 6_5; attempting to equate a modern hardware-backed feature with an old software implementable concept, like PRT, comes across as pretty silly. It's the equivalent of saying "hardware accelerated ray traced global illumination is just idTech 2's pre-baked lightmaps by another name".

Nope your simply talking like a sales man her again using words like "a different beast" you guys never learn. Sfs or whatever you call it simply enhances prt and prt hasnt always been software it was on ps4 in hardware, its all vortual texturing doesnt matter how you spin it, and saying its similar to comparing raytracing to id tech 2 prebaked lightmaps is exaggerating its like comparing raytracing to svogi.

Ive heard microsoft marketing campaigns that im already bored they fooled the gaming community back in 2013 with loads of buzzwords and didnt deliver and in 2021 its the same crap all over again

 

[abel empire]

virtual texturing is SOFTWARE BASED hence why its called SOFTWARE VIRTUAL TEXTURING unless accelerated by HW like SFS. PRT has hardware but has limitations.
1. PRT did not allow the dev to see what was going on with the data, so even things you didn't need were loaded and devs could use a best guess approach for what was next.
2. PRT did not have the HW texture filters ONLY present in the XS consoles
3. PRT is slower than SFS

SFS IS HARDWARE BASED...SFS can be used to accelerate virtual texturing. PRT is old...SF came after that...prt+ SF came after that and now we are at SFS.

SFS is quantifiable with a 2.5x on average EFFECTIVE ram capacity increase and a multiplier of I/O speed. MS say SFS only uses 33% of texture data that would otherwise be used.
for example:

if the PS5 had to load/stream 14 GB of texture data the XS would only have to 4.66 GB to load/stream.

time to load/stream 14 GB of texture data:

PS5: 14 GB@ 17.3 GB/s (MAX realistic speed with OT) =0.81 seconds
14GB @ 22/GB/s (Unrealistic speed)= 0.63 seconds

XSX: 4.66 GB(SFS 14 GB equivalent) @ 4.8 GB/s (minimum speed) =0.97 seconds
4.66 GB @6.1+ GB/s=0.76 seconds (assumed maximum speed as MS said beyond 6 GB/S for the decom block and 4.8 GB/s was the "worst case scenario" speed)


as you can see, they are about equal in this scenario however the advantage goes more in favor of the XS the more it has to load/ stream and it can load more into ram. SFS gives the XSX 33.75 GB of EFFECTIVE usable RAM capacity.

STREAMING 20GB FOR EXAMPLE:

PS5: 20GB @ 17.3 GB/s (MAX realistic speed with OT) =1.15 seconds
@ 22GB/s(Unrealistic speed)= 0.90 seconds

PS5 MUST STREAM THE 20 GB
-----------------------------------------------------
XSX: 6.66 GB(SFS) @ 4.8 GB/s (minimum speed) = 1.38 seconds
@6.1 GB/s= 1.09 seconds (assumed maximum speed as MS said beyond 6 GB/S for the decom block and 4.8 GB/s was the "worst case scenario" speed)

XSX CAN LOAD THE 6.6 GB 2.5 TIMES AND/OR STREAM at the same visual quality as PS which means you can POTENTALLY get higher quality on XS

Your talking alot of. Bullshit with long posts go read that picture carefully prt is in hardware on ps4 so stop missingorming people, ps4 had hardware decompression and prt and microspft copied that but sony invented a new io architecture on ps5 that microsoft had no clue about. You cant cheat and immitate the io on ps5 by using tricks as sfs that is pure marketing and your being fooled.

 

[Tripolygon]

Who's alt account is this? Lmao

 

[M1chl]

This I agree with.

X1X is still a bit of a beast.

XSS would be far better with GPU and memory subsystem from X1X and you would simply don't have RT, which for 300USD is fine.

 

[ZehDon]

Nope your simply talking like a sales man her again using words like "a different beast" you guys never learn. Sfs or whatever you call it simply enhances prt and prt hasnt always been software it was on ps4 in hardware, its all vortual texturing doesnt matter how you spin it, and saying its similar to comparing raytracing to id tech 2 prebaked lightmaps is exaggerating its like comparing raytracing to svogi.

Ive heard microsoft marketing campaigns that im already bored they fooled the gaming community back in 2013 with loads of buzzwords and didnt deliver and in 2021 its the same crap all over again

Everything you've written here is - literally - patentably false. You know nothing. You can't even get basic information correct in your other posts; PSSL implemented PRT in hardware after DX's and OpenGL's hardware-supported implementation of PRT, called Tiled Resources. Easily provable: Rage's idTech 5 iteration used PRT ("mega textures") back in 2010, three years before the PS4. Carmack's adoption of the technology in id Tech 5 was part of the trigger for both NVidia and AMD to get their hardware support in line for this feature (spoiler: AMD in particular dropped the driver-ball bigtime). SFS goes beyond PRT, which is why it requires bespoke hardware support and has a separate patent.

 

[abel empire]

virtual texturing is SOFTWARE BASED hence why its called SOFTWARE VIRTUAL TEXTURING unless accelerated by HW like SFS. PRT has hardware but has limitations.
1. PRT did not allow the dev to see what was going on with the data, so even things you didn't need were loaded and devs could use a best guess approach for what was next.
2. PRT did not have the HW texture filters ONLY present in the XS consoles
3. PRT is slower than SFS

SFS IS HARDWARE BASED...SFS can be used to accelerate virtual texturing. PRT is old...SF came after that...prt+ SF came after that and now we are at SFS.

SFS is quantifiable with a 2.5x on average EFFECTIVE ram capacity increase and a multiplier of I/O speed. MS say SFS only uses 33% of texture data that would otherwise be used.
for example:

if the PS5 had to load/stream 14 GB of texture data the XS would only have to 4.66 GB to load/stream.

time to load/stream 14 GB of texture data:

PS5: 14 GB@ 17.3 GB/s (MAX realistic speed with OT) =0.81 seconds
14GB @ 22/GB/s (Unrealistic speed)= 0.63 seconds

XSX: 4.66 GB(SFS 14 GB equivalent) @ 4.8 GB/s (minimum speed) =0.97 seconds
4.66 GB @6.1+ GB/s=0.76 seconds (assumed maximum speed as MS said beyond 6 GB/S for the decom block and 4.8 GB/s was the "worst case scenario" speed)


as you can see, they are about equal in this scenario however the advantage goes more in favor of the XS the more it has to load/ stream and it can load more into ram. SFS gives the XSX 33.75 GB of EFFECTIVE usable RAM capacity.

STREAMING 20GB FOR EXAMPLE:

PS5: 20GB @ 17.3 GB/s (MAX realistic speed with OT) =1.15 seconds
@ 22GB/s(Unrealistic speed)= 0.90 seconds

PS5 MUST STREAM THE 20 GB
-----------------------------------------------------
XSX: 6.66 GB(SFS) @ 4.8 GB/s (minimum speed) = 1.38 seconds
@6.1 GB/s= 1.09 seconds (assumed maximum speed as MS said beyond 6 GB/S for the decom block and 4.8 GB/s was the "worst case scenario" speed)

XSX CAN LOAD THE 6.6 GB 2.5 TIMES AND/OR STREAM at the same visual quality as PS which means you can POTENTALLY get higher quality on XS

Everything you've written here is - literally - patentably false. You know nothing. You can't even get basic information correct in your other posts; PSSL implemented PRT in hardware after DX's and OpenGL's hardware-supported implementation of PRT, called Tiled Resources. Easily provable: Rage's idTech 5 iteration used PRT ("mega textures") back in 2010, three years before the PS4. Carmack's adoption of the technology in id Tech 5 was part of the trigger for both NVidia and AMD to get their hardware support in line for this feature (spoiler: AMD in particular dropped the driver-ball bigtime). SFS goes beyond PRT, which is why it requires bespoke hardware support and has a separate patent.

You fool, prt was don in software on xbox 360/ps3 but it wad done in hardware on ps4 so what is false here

Learn to read properly or did you miss your read and write classes in grade 2? Sfs is simply an enhanced version of prt its all virtual texturing bullcrap nothing even close to ps5s io architecture. Deal with it

 

[XSXRDNA2]

Your talking alot of. Bullshit with long posts go read that picture carefully prt is in hardware on ps4 so stop missingorming people, ps4 had hardware decompression and prt and microspft copied that but sony invented a new io architecture on ps5 that microsoft had no clue about. You cant cheat and immitate the io on ps5 by using tricks as sfs that is pure marketing and your being fooled.

Dude you have no idea what you're talking about and it's actually hilarious.
No one's copying Sony dumb dumb those are AMD technologies PRT has been used for a long time.

AMD HOLDS THE PATENT FOR PRT

US20120147028A1 - Partially Resident Textures - Google Patents

A method, computer program product, and system are provided for processing a graphics operation. For instance, the method can include partitioning a texture and associated mipmaps into memory tiles, where the memory tiles are associated with a virtual memory system. The method can also include...

patents.google.com

If it was simply a Sony technology would it would have only been used in Sony games dumb dumb.
On top of that sampler feedback does not require residency... Hence the reason PRT is called partially resident textures meaning that some has to be in RAM.
Sampler feedback & streaming allows the developers to actually see what's going on with PRT they cannot
On top of that Xbox One had hardware decompression smart guy with dme... Sony copies everybody Microsoft didn't copy Sony at all.

No one's trying to imitate PS5's lame IO design.

Work smarter not harder If I can use three times less data than you my drive will not heat up as fast and I can maintain a sustained speed as well as be faster in games that are file size limited And I can accelerate virtual texturing like an unreal engine 5. The less data you're putting through a GPU the more efficient the GPU can operate and the less you're thrashing RAM.

You want your narrative be to be true but it's simply not... Bring facts instead of emotional conjecture.

 

[mckmas8808]

Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition Q&A: 'Next-Gen Consoles Are Much More Powerful Than We First Thought'

Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition launched today on next-generation consoles, and we've got a huge tech Q&A with 4A Games about it.

wccftech.com

[IGN Poland] How much room for improvement is there with the PlayStation 5 and Xbox series consoles? Do you feel like they're holding back technology available on PC?

Ben Archard: That remains to be seen really. There's going to be years of technological development optimization. And, honestly, that's the process of working throughout a console generation lifecycle. You start at the beginning, you put something out, and then you work and you learn and you figure things out. So how much room there is left? it's utterly impossible for us to say, we're gonna keep trying to push as much in as we can until they break. As far as a hindrance, I would honestly say that I'm really glad that they've done raytracing. Now we're in the era of ray tracing, we can go all in, and the fact that the consoles are there is a really good solid baseline for that. It allows us to say, Okay, well, we're going to do that on PC, we're going to do that on all platforms. We're going to cut off from the old way of doing things as it were. And we can now go full steam ahead with this new and what we feel is a much better paradigm for working within.

So happy to see devs saying the bolded too. So maybe people can stop saying cross-gen games don't hold things back.