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Metroid really went through one of the most awful slumps for a franchise in the last decade (Other M and Federation Force)

CGiRanger

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I'm replaying Other M now and while the gameplay is still fun, the awful and cringe fest of a storytelling in the game is making me take long breaks away from it. Not adding a skip option was as huge dick move by Team Ninja.
Overall I still think it is a game worth playing though.
Yeah. I went to Youtube to watch and remind myself of the cutscenes and, yeah....

That's some pretty damn cringy writing and acting. Even the Japanese dialogue is more overdramatic than normal. Whoever wrote the script definitely was not a good writer.
 

MagiusNecros

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If you think Metroid had a slump look at Starfox. Such a basic concept and still not a single good game since the N64.
*Fzero intensifies*

 
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nkarafo

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That's cute but no.



This guy gets it.

If people could stop frothing at the mouth for 5 seconds about Other M they'd probably have a much more reasonable reaction.

And let's not kid ourselves, the series didn't "almost die" because of Other M and Fed Force, it went on hiatus since the fanbase shat their pants over these games and Nintendo was probably caught off guard by all the hyperbolic hate. Any time a fanbase has a bullshit reaction like this it scares publishers. See Dead Space. Dead Space 3 was so easily a quality game but fans acted like it murdered their fucking families so EA put it on hold. I literally don't blame EA, I blame the toxic reactions claiming 3 ruined the series.

Complete fucking bullshit.
You seem very upset that people dislike this game. Way more hyperbole here than the posts you claim are hyperbolic.

Also, Dead Space 3 ruined the franchise.
 
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carlosrox

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Also, Dead Space 3 ruined the franchise.

Nope. Again, it was the whiny fans if anything that ruined it. Wah wah microtransactions this, microtransactions that. That fake shit complaint was so loud and whiney that the guys making the DS remake have had to embarrassingly go out of their way 1000 times saying how there won't be any to appease the whiney bitch fans. I've heard all the complaints for these games and they pretty much all fucking SUCK. People will always have their shitty hot takes for games like Other M, Dead Space 3, Doom 3, etc.

Way more hyperbole here than the posts you claim are hyperbolic.

So people haven't been shitting on the game, crying about it since it released?
 

nordique

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It's funny that there was a slump to begin with. Nintendo knows what they need to do in order to make quality Mario, Zelda, and Metroid titles. The main issue is that Nintendo rarely puts forth the effort to showcase the talent they have.

Hopefully Dread is a massive success and forces Nintendo to provide games that cater to the Switch audience who want HARDCORE vidyagames.

i dunno dude

Mario odyssey, Zelda botw and Metroid dread are peaks for the franchise imho

nintendo is firing on all cylinders right now and I think them combining their efforts into one focused platform has made them the best Nintendo they can be
 

nkarafo

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So people haven't been shitting on the game, crying about it since it released?
Sure, some more that others. But in most cases, it's justifiable. Its not the worst game ever made, that's hyperbole, and it even has some cool parts (i really liked the implementation of the speed boost) but saying its overal the worst main Metroid game is a legit opinion with legit arguments to back it up.
 

CGiRanger

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i dunno dude

Mario odyssey, Zelda botw and Metroid dread are peaks for the franchise imho

nintendo is firing on all cylinders right now and I think them combining their efforts into one focused platform has made them the best Nintendo they can be
I fully agree that the combining of platforms was the best decision Nintendo could have made. It was clear especially during the Wii U's time that it and the 3DS were cannibalizing each other in terms of development resources and that both platforms (though particularly the Wii U) suffered from it.

Though, it should be noted that both the Wii and to a lesser extent the Wii U were all about Nintendo's "experimentation" phase with new gameplay styles from the Wiimote to the Wii U's handheld screen, and that to an effect made them come up with some far out ideas for their properties.
 
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PanzerAzel

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That's cute but no.



This guy gets it.

If people could stop frothing at the mouth for 5 seconds about Other M they'd probably have a much more reasonable reaction.

And let's not kid ourselves, the series didn't "almost die" because of Other M and Fed Force, it went on hiatus since the fanbase shat their pants over these games and Nintendo was probably caught off guard by all the hyperbolic hate. Any time a fanbase has a bullshit reaction like this it scares publishers. See Dead Space. Dead Space 3 was so easily a quality game but fans acted like it murdered their fucking families so EA put it on hold. I literally don't blame EA, I blame the toxic reactions claiming 3 ruined the series.

Complete fucking bullshit.
No, what is complete fucking bullshit is for people to lay blame at the fans’ feet when a developer largely betrays what’s made a franchise what it is. Like it or not, a franchise beholdens a developer to specific design tenets that have been foundational to an IPs identity, and that has attracted a specific audience. When a developer eschews or largely strays from those principles of established gameplay that’ve come to define an experience, how is it the fanbase’s fault when it strays and falters?

Companies managing IPs do NOT hold free creative reign in the direction they entail if they wish to retain commercial potency predicated upon the core tenets that enabled its initial market viability and appeal. There is a reason Metroid is Metroid, there is a reason people love it, and Other M was an abysmal exemplification of what that is. FF was frankly insulting and honestly barely worth mentioning.

It has been no one but Nintendo’s fault in their mishandling of Metroid.…..not the fans.
 

Zannegan

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I get the feeling that most of the people bashing it have never played it at all. It just helps them feel good about themselves to find something new to hate every day.
Okay, hold the phone.

Just because some folks go overboard with their criticism doesn't mean that everyone who seriously dislikes the game is just bandwaggoning. Other M has some of the worst character writing of any AAA game I've ever played, and its merely competent gameplay (with some truly puzzling wonky design decisions) doesn't do much to redeem the game overall.

Given the franchise' pedigree, I don't think it's unfair to call it an unfocused mess or even a bad game. Even hyperbolic labels like "trash" aren't that far out of line. Even if you disagree though, you're doing your argument no favors by pretending all the haters are also fake.
 

Schnozberry

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Federation Force was a waste of time. I don't think you can credibly argue otherwise.

What really got in the way of Other M was the control scheme on the Wii and the attempt to take away the agency from Samus through a pretty grating storytelling experience. There were some gameplay concepts that I enjoyed, but the lack of camera control and the sideways Wii Remote gameplay for 2D was a bummer. Could have been great from a gameplay perspective if it was designed around a traditional controller. I'm not sure you can redeem the story.
 
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Punished Miku

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Federation Force was a waste of time. I don't think you can credibly argue otherwise.
It's not though. If you wanted to design a game based on the Prime series and put it on 3DS, it's really not bad at all. You'd cater to the quick pick-up-and-play nature of the 3DS and have more bite sized missions. You'd use gyro aiming since there's no 2nd stick. At the time they experimented a lot with co-op games as well (Triforce Heroes is great). Everything about it works well. People just didn't want to give it a chance. I mean, I got it for $30 on day one and it was a lot of fun I thought. Next Level Games literally always makes good games.

Is it my favorite in the series? No, it's obviously a multiplayer spin-off. But it's really not bad at all.
 

AzafuseYugi

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The series only skipped Wii U recently for understandable reasons, but Nintendo cares big about Metroid and has been working hard since before 2015 to bring it back, very few series have a perfect track record, classics like Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, Devil May Cry etc had their struggles from time to time but always bounce back. Others like Silent Hill or Sonic aren't so lucky, Metroid is in good hands and has a bright future
Sonic is if anything, the luckiest, they can make a really bad game, yet they will bounce back inmediately. it has happened several times, yet the series is somehow sitll afloat.
 

Sub Boss

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Sonic is if anything, the luckiest, they can make a really bad game, yet they will bounce back inmediately. it has happened several times, yet the series is somehow sitll afloat.
Sonic is a very popular classic series but sometimes, like Sonic Forces, 2006 or Unleashed they really struggle, there has not been a high budget AAA Sonic since Unleashed and other projects like Boom totally failed, Mania did well but it was a smaller 2d game with no sequel.

The movie was a big success and hopefully the next Sonic games are a big comeback

When i mean struggle i don't mean only sales but fan and critics acclaim.
 
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AzafuseYugi

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Sonic is a very popular classic series but sometimes, like Sonic Forces, 2006 or Unleashed they really struggle, there has not been a high budget AAA Sonic since Unleashed and other projects like Boom totally failed, Mania did well but it was a smaller 2d game with no sequel.

The movie was a big success and hopefully the next Sonic games are a big comeback

When i mean struggle i don't mean only sales but fan and critics acclaim.
i guess so, but compared to Metroid, Sonic was in a better place. atleast they still did games.
 

01011001

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the Metroid series does have a really bumpy and mixed history for sure...

I just finished Dread, HOLY SHIT this might be the best game in the series.

After the meh remake of 2 and the meh Castlevania games they did I didn't think Mercury Steam would deliver such an absolute banger.

The Leveldesign is possibly the best in the series, the boss fights are up there with the best in the series, the controls are great, the difficulty perfectly threads the needle between hard and rewarding, and the exploration and little puzzles to get some of the hidden items were really fun.

this is pure distilled GOTY material right here
 
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tassletine

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It’s no different than Halo Infinite on that regard, lots of hard edges, tech and metal there too. But MP4 runs on a lot weaker hardware, I just don’t see how they can impress visually. Metroid Dread comes off looking great because things are so far away. But in a first person shooter you’ll look at all the surfaces up close, look at the talk on the visuals from the Halo Infinite beta to see what people are expecting.
Next year we’ll start seeing Unreal Engine 5 games on PC/PS5/XSX, then things will evolve even more.
Detail doesn't have much to do with impressing visually unless you are a particular type of bean counter, and no one really has any idea of what people are expecting.
I'm a bit confused by your comparison though as what I saw of the Halo beta looked very last gen and pretty poor to me.

The same argument has been made forever about Nintendo games not being up to the task, but they usually look pretty good and usually run at 60fps, which is more of a priority for them.
If anything what people would be expecting, is more of that level of quality, not some massive graphical leap.
 

Fredrik

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Detail doesn't have much to do with impressing visually unless you are a particular type of bean counter, and no one really has any idea of what people are expecting.
I'm a bit confused by your comparison though as what I saw of the Halo beta looked very last gen and pretty poor to me.

The same argument has been made forever about Nintendo games not being up to the task, but they usually look pretty good and usually run at 60fps, which is more of a priority for them.
If anything what people would be expecting, is more of that level of quality, not some massive graphical leap.
I hear what you’re saying but I remain sceptical. I think the first person perspective by default makes us expect certain things that would never be important in a more zoomed out perspective which is what Nintendo usually go for.
 
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i guess so, but compared to Metroid, Sonic was in a better place. atleast they still did games.
I'd argue that the reason Sonic is able to "recover" from slumps more quickly is, kinda sadly, that the fanbase, which is way more split and with less of a consensus of quality than Metroid fans, will just accept whatever Sonic Team puts out as long as it's not outright horrible. (The sales of Sonic Forces is presented as my evidence for this. Arguably the most mediocre, soulless cash-in mainline entry ever put out, yet somehow it stops a sales slump in Sonic games simply by not being another Rise of Lyric.)

An even more downer perspective: Sonic, at least quality-wise, never really recovered from a quality slump, at least not to the extent that anyone could argue it's quality to outpace Mario in the modern day. But it seems like the only people that seem really concerned about that are the Genesis-era purists, and the new Sonic Team seems desperate to separate their identity from that even as they have to simultaneously pander to them for easy revenue.


In comparison, Other M, objectively speaking, is not the low lows of Sonic 2006 or Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric, yet it probably has lower sales numbers than either of them, because the dedicated fanbase saw it not merely as a "bad game" but as an outright betrayal, and responded with a boycott that destroyed any chance of it's success. Federation Force is arguably not even a bad game at all - at worse, it's a gimmicky spin-off on the same tier as Metroid Prime Pinball - but it got the same treatment in kind because it was another not-exactly-Metroid following Other M.


*Fzero intensifies*


I'd say a "slump" necessitates a poorly-received entry, which I do not recall F-Zero ever truly having. Sometimes it's good to go out on a high note.
 

Zannegan

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I hear what you’re saying but I remain sceptical. I think the first person perspective by default makes us expect certain things that would never be important in a more zoomed out perspective which is what Nintendo usually go for.
They could go with a slightly stylized art style. I don't mean Borderlands cell shading, but making things a little simpler and blockier and then relying on lighting effects and art direction to make up the difference.

I agree though, there's no game they can make on 360+ level hardware that will impress from a technical standpoint. Best aim for something that will look good in motion, hold a solid framerate, and stun from its sense of scale and imagination rather than it's realistic levels of detail.
 
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RAIDEN1

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The thing is there is slump, and then there is REAL slump, I am talking about Mass Effect Andromeda, that did the franchise no favours what-so-ever...it took the remaster of the original trilogy to set things straight..so Metroid hasn't had it THAT bad..
 

Zannegan

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The thing is there is slump, and then there is REAL slump, I am talking about Mass Effect Andromeda, that did the franchise no favours what-so-ever...it took the remaster of the original trilogy to set things straight..so Metroid hasn't had it THAT bad..
I dunno, 10 years with only Other M and Federation force? That puts Metroid in a slump for almost as long as Mass Effect was a premier franchise, literally from the time ME1 released to ME:A.

Samus Returns was solid in 2017 though.
 

tassletine

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I hear what you’re saying but I remain sceptical. I think the first person perspective by default makes us expect certain things that would never be important in a more zoomed out perspective which is what Nintendo usually go for.
That's a decent point, but I very much doubt it will affect sales, as it would have done so before.
I've never heard anyone complain about the graphics in a metroid game, it's usually that it's just not 'metroidy' enough.