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MGSV's story is severely underrated... (Franchise Spoilers)

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I'd appreciate it a little better if we managed to get remakes of Metal Gear 1 and 2 but those seem very unlikely now.
 
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Why was the plot so basic to you? The structure is different, but the content is actually really similar to old games.

I don't think anyone in all seriousness would dare say that The Phantom Pain's writing is up to par with Fukushima's work. I know that correlation is not causation but damn, this is a trend at this point.
 

Torquill

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This isn’t complicated. Great game storytelling is about integrating narrative and gameplay. They struggled to do this well in several games with over long cutscenes and the tapes represent them abandoning the attempt rather than trying to improve.

It might free up the action but from a story telling perspective. It simply doesn’t work. They are good for fleshing out nerd level background, but can’t be the mechanisms by which emotional, active plot points are told (Zeros visit, etc). It’s a “video” game. Show.
 

Roni

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The repeated old criticism of it's a great game but a bad Metal Gear is still apt in my opinion.

Fair enough if you've played it and feel like that, but in your own opinion, why wasn't V as good as say... your favorite Metal Gear title?

If anything, he's a sometimes Silent Protagonist.

Hence why I said he was a silent protagonist whenever... Meaning, in specific situations. You're just repeating what I said as if it was your own idea.

I don't think anyone in all seriousness would dare say that The Phantom Pain's writing is up to par with Fukushima's work. I know that correlation is not causation but damn, this is a trend at this point.

And here's the thing: why are the same twists masterpieces (or at least tolerable) in collaboration with Fukushima but worthless when he's gone? It's right there in the image: "Ocelot attempts to kill Snake several times despite Snake being integral to his plan". That's right there as a highlight of how incompetent MGS4 is. Well, guess what? Liquid also tried to kill Snake several times in MGS1, and he was also an integral part of the plan then. Why is that not highlighted as a bad trait in MGS? Just because it was Fukushima who wrote it? Double standards.

Let's pick another one, just for fun.

In MGS2, right there in that image, it says that "Loose ends were intentional to let the player interpret and decide why some things in the game happened". Well, how is that any different from MGSV's loose ends when, at the very beginning of MGSV's last story mission, Kojima opens up with this line from Nietzsche: "Facts do not exist, there are only interpretations...". How much more on the nose do you need to get to convey that the lacking content was made intentional by revision of the development team?

Why is that positive highlight not beside MGSV in that image? Just because it wasn't Fukushima that wrote it?

Heck, why stop here? Let's do a third one. Peace Walker is criticized for attempting to be an E-rated game. Kojima knew the audience of the PSP was younger. And the fact that you fight against machines the whole game is a brilliant twist to have Boss fights but not have individual violence against a single person. It's the same reason why Peace Walker doesn't have a knife, but a stun rod. Peace Walker's theme is PEACE, and that extends past the story and bleeds into the gameplay. Why is Peace Walker being an E-rated game a bad thing if the solo Fukushima game to the Game Boy is also E-rated? Another double standard for the sake of attempting to push a narrative.

Let's do a final one, we're having so much fun...

Peace Walker is also criticized for featuring tech that is so much more advanced than in 3 - which is the only other fully canonized game before it in the timeline. Well, what did you expect? There are several previous games in the franchise featuring things like Stealth camouflage, bipedal robots, cybernetic exoskeletons, rail guns, amphibious metal gears, etc, etc, etc... At some point in the past the more basic technology had to be worked on. Pupa's design is pulled straight from the Shagohod. Peace Walker is not even a fully bipedal weapon. Since it has to revert to a quadrupedal several times, even fighting you as a quadruped for the final fights. How exactly is Peace Walker more advanced than RAY, or how exactly is The Boss AI more powerful than the Patriots? This is outright incorrect.

This whole "Fukushima was the good writer" narrative that fans (who probably fell out of love with the series past 3) use needs to die. At this point you're all just criticizing things in 4, Peace Walker and V that are also in 1, 2 and 3 without even checking.

This isn’t complicated. Great game storytelling is about integrating narrative and gameplay. They struggled to do this well in several games with over long cutscenes and the tapes represent them abandoning the attempt rather than trying to improve.

Agreed.

It might free up the action but from a story telling perspective. It simply doesn’t work. They are good for fleshing out nerd level background, but can’t be the mechanisms by which emotional, active plot points are told (Zeros visit, etc). It’s a “video” game. Show.

But the counter point is that it's a video "game". It needs to play well and flow well for it to be worth anything as a game. The tapes simply work better for the gameplay, and make the story exploration more interactive.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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i 100% agree, MGSV's story is highly underrated.

the fragmented nature of the game is built into the narrative, into the main character himself. unfinished? that is the permanent state of MGS, Kojima could make games for the rest of his life and people would still say "What's next? There are plotholes left unfilled." this is the first entry to accept that and deal w it head on. MGS2 famously had it's ending cut due to 9/11. MGS5 was originally going to be Peace Walker, before being chopped into two games that were supposed to be in one piece, much like MGS2's two chapters. had it all been released at once like MGS2, i think the reception would have been much better.

had it not been released in an atmosphere where every gaming journalism outlet and youtube commenter was making anti-Konami content. i haven't read a single critical analysis of the story in this game yet! how many hundreds of "writers" and "critics" i have read just dogpiling this game for "no story" and taking easy shots at the big bad company. lol then these people wonder why gamergate happens.

on my 3rd replay now and still realizing all kinds of new things. i love the hospital intro, it is such a wonderful mission, so symbolic, and so brilliant. Big Boss already had 2 games w his origin story at this point, Kojima said "fuck it, i want to do another one anyways, and make it the most badass Rambo escaping from a hospital mission ever." it is also funny to consider that Kojima showed the ending of the game when first revealing it.

the final ending is still so great. he's not going to remake the first Metal Gear. he's going to take us right to the threshhold though. Big Boss was always fated to die after this entry in the series, this gives him a way to potentially ride off into the sunset, chomping on a cigar, like Clint Eastwood & James Bond mixed together rather than go out like a punk.

replaying it on The Truth is interesting, at times it seems like Psycho Mantis & Fire Volgin are being summoned (unconsciously?) by Venom. Psycho - another in a long line of series victim of genetic engineering in the name of warfare - attaches himself to the person w the most lust for revenge, and feeding from that, sort of puppets the classic boss villains of the series (the metal gear & Volgin (MGS1+3 respectively)). the theme of all-consuming revenge that comes to a head in the 1st ending of MGSV.

interesting that The Truth seems to open right after Shining Lights, the oh-so-important mission where you go around shooting your own troops in order to maintain your control of a WMD. going w the theme of PTSD this experience hits Venom to the core, and he ends the mission in defeat, on his knees, much like when he was an invalid at the hospital post-coma. the next mission is The Truth because that is the other main story mission bookending the game, and it directly contrasts this one. there are a lot of reoccuring themes between the two missions (fire, Boss getting stabbed w a knife, ascending/descending, etc.) and it all demonstrates where Venom's journey has taken him. this is really what he was made for, to kill his own soldiers, ie. to kill Solid Snake. this prepares him for his role in the first game. Big Boss is such a villain he turns other people into villains.
 
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Alexios

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Ugh... No that was its worst aspect (even more than the lack of good mission design and pointless open world and endless samey gameplay). To the degree it's overrated I'd say.

There are some nice scenes and plot development but overall it's just bad and some impressive hollywood style directing in some scenes doesn't save the whole.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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RTTP with this game on PS4 Pro after playing through 3 times on PC. Always thought the story was great and it holds up even more than ever.

I like how it begins with Snake charged with rebuilding his army. This is the prequel to the first Metal Gear so we see how that Big Boss amassed an army of international mercs. We don’t just see it we live it by building his army man by man.

When Quiet is taken in, it signifies the downfall. For the first time we have Kaz protesting against it. Snake decides to take this former villain in, going against old his
old friend Kaz and along with Ocelot. Ocelot of course is a villain in every other entry. This is no longer the virtuous Snake of MGS3 or PW.

They take in Quiet, and through her, the parasites. She’s a living WMD, and much like other WMDs obtained by Outer Heaven they only attract trouble.

The scenario shifts to Africa, and we learn more about this viral ethnic cleanser of Skullface’s. We meet child soldiers, who offer Snake diamonds in payment for their lives, and are taken in by Diamond Dogs. Their leader turns out to be Liquid Snake, who only has nonviolent battles with Venom, and the two have the antagonistic relationship shared by Liquid and Solid. Had we focused on the real Big Boss then the game would have been about him and Solid Snake, which we already have that game many times over. This is interesting, to explore Liquid’s relationship with his blood relative, as well as witnessing his discovery and initial collaborations with Psycho Mantis.

The closer they get to the truth they get infected with a mass outbreak. After bringing Liquid back to Mother Base, Liquid pulls a knife of Snake, and he tells him “Never pull a weapon on a fellow soldier”. A cutscene later, Quiet is attacking a DD troublemaker, and soon enough, Snake is shooting his own men in the head, to stop the spread of the biological WMD that he decided to keep. Quiet and Liquid are both sympathetic villains more or less, and we are witnessing Snake (or even better, an innocent medic, someone trained to heal people) become the very thing he speaks against. Him killing his own men is the penultimate ritual at the end of his journey from Medic to Big Boss.

Soon we meet Code Talker, the scientist behind the bioweapon, who will cure our men. He is a Native American who worked with the US govt to crack Axis codes in WWII. He also was compelled to work for Skull Face designing a virus that kills people who don’t speak English. It is a commentary on imperialism and colonialism, the practice of eliminating a people through controlling their language, something used against the Native Americans during that genocide. Amazing no critics picked up on any of this lol it was all Konami gossip.

Soon after Code Talker that’s pretty much the end of the journey, you have a massive shootout w the Metal Gear then one last blaze of glory with Quiet. Everyone starts leaving Mother Base. Quiet. Liquid and the Metal Gear. Huey. Skull face is dead so now that we have our revenge there is nothing to look forward to, just endless missions until that fateful day in Outer Heaven. Interestingly, one of the first things we see in MGSV is Outer Heaven, and we hear the Big Boss Solid Snake gunfight going on. It is as if this whole game has been a flashback. Soon enough, as the deconstruction of Mother Base continues, Venom and the player slowly realizes the truth. Quiet is the last to leave, and she was there when he woke up in that hospital, she was set on fire by... who was it...? Venom investigating all this leads us back to the hospital where it all began.

The final ending is so wonderful and does so many things. It thanks the player for doing their part in growing the “legend of Big Boss”. It allows the “real” Big Boss to still maintain some mystery and ride off into the sunset on a motorcycle smoking a cigar like it was a Rambo movie. It also literally reboots the series, with the meta inclusion of an MSX booting up a tape with the original game code. Honestly it’s a
 

Happosai

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I've thought about making this thread for a while now... Every time I did, however, I've always hesitated due to the absolute disapproval MGSV's story gets in every MGS thread I read. Thinking my arguments would fall on deaf ears unless they were extremely well built and fact-checked, and realizing I probably had more productive things to do with my time instead of spending over two of months laying out said arguments, I never did it. I thought: "that's OK, someone else will get to it".

Thing is, it's 2018 and no one got to it yet. At least I haven't read that thread, if it is around. I still don't have the time to do the 2-month research, but I thought I'd at least get the ball rolling with this thread. The thread openly talks about spoilers for ALL games of the Metal Gear franchise. Join the conversation if you have played all of the games or if you just don't care.

You see, when Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain first launched back in 2015, I was among the small group of people that considered it a masterpiece both in terms of story and gameplay. There were those who hated the game and there were those who loved the game, but both sides pretty much agreed that MGSV's story wasn't spectacular. Some even claiming it was the worst story in the series.

I think differently, radically differently.

MGSV's story is one of the best and most ambitious (and even thematically relevant) in the series, rivaling the awesome story in Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - a title itself controversial at release. If you're willing to hear me out, let's jump right into it:

Premise #1: Kojima cares. You may dislike Kojima games, you may find his genre boring, you may even dislike his taste for the dramatic. What his work objectively doesn't allow you to say is that he doesn't care about his story and his fans. The man has bent over backwards and worked under the most ridiculous constraints & conditions to bring players original themes within the canon he's established over the years. He's stuck with a painfully simple game he designed back in 1987 and built an entire franchise around it, not once taking the liberty of saying: "Yeah, that whole game didn't happen anymore", which would've been the easier path to tread. He designed a full-fledged sequel to Metal Gear Solid 4 on a portable game system, taking the constraints of that platform in stride and creating, arguably, the most complete title of the PSP's library. He may have to retcon things, he may even require players to not stick as closely to what has been said in previous games - making good use of the fact Metal Gear is a series rooted in lies and deception. But the man definitely does his best to respect the fans who have played his games.

Premise #2: Kojima is a visionary. Time and again, the man has seen ahead and worked to materialize something that didn't yet exist in our medium. Be it propelling the stealth genre into the mainstream with the original Metal Gear, creating one of the best video game thrillers at the time with Metal Gear 2, introducing cinematic storytelling with MGS, using the medium's traits to make an extremely relevant point some 15 years ahead of time with MGS2, creating one of the most emotional tales in video game history with MGS3, subverting all of our expectations in MGS4 or creating, from the ground up, an extremely high-caliber portable game. The man seizes every opportunity he has to innovate.

Premise #3: MGSV is an incomplete game. That's just a fact, but ask any developer and they will tell you that every game is ultimately incomplete. The challenge in making a game is knowing where to stop. Given that Kojima cares and that he clearly strives to push the medium forward with every new project he takes on, it seems reasonable to assume he must've tried his best to connect everything together, even if that meant being economical and using as few strands as possible in that connection.

With these premises at hand, I'd like to make the point that MGSV's story is the antithesis to the ordinary plot you'd find in most games. You see, most game stories work in service of taking the player through a satisfying emotional ride. There may be betrayals, plot twists and complications; but the player almost always reaches a climax that results in some form of closure. In most instances where that doesn't happen, it can be attributed to an oversight or an error by the developer's part. But life, as we all know it, doesn't always play out as if we're the hero.

Not all of our friends are easy-going, hard-working and extremely supportive.
Not all relationships end well.
Not all of our struggles are just.
Not all stories lead to a satisfying conclusion.

Sometimes, life just tramples over us, and we're left to pick-up the pieces in its wake.

I'd like to make the point that MGSV's story is precisely about that: a story designed to evoke all different shades of pain. Let's focus on how each character in MGSV is designed to expose the player to something negative:

Skull Face is the main antagonist of the game. He's a bureaucratic villain that captures and tortures Chico, a child that lived in your base. Not only forcing Chico to watch as he beat and raped Paz, the girl he loved, but also forcing him to participate in her torture. Contributing to her suffering and agony. He also destroys MSF's Mother Base by the end of Ground Zeroes. Essentially taking your Peace Walker save file and deleting it. He's personally responsible for you being in a coma for 9 years, losing your left arm and suffering brain damage due to a massive piece of shrapnel being stuck in your head. He's also responsible for the deaths of everyone in the hospital you wake up in and for Miller's capture and mutilation. Skull Face has been a constant source of suffering for everyone you know. He's the target, the devil. If you follow the story closely, there's no way you don't hate him. And yet, his demise is quick and mostly painless - not only because of his parasite treatment, but also because Huey puts a bullet in his head and destroys his brain. He's designed to make players experience the pain of how unfulfilling revenge ultimately is.

Miller is your closest friend, a man who has lost everything, just like you. His outlook on life, however, isn't as neutral as Venom's. Miller becomes obssessed with revenge, fueled by rage and hatred. He hates those who wronged him and builds his life around ensuring they pay him back. This makes him completely paranoid: he is constantly at odds with Ocelot, he places armed sentries to point weapons at Venom himself, he even puts up posters that say 'Big Boss is watching!' to drive home the point that all will be under scrutiny and under constant evaluation. Miller's designed to make players experience the pain of losing a relationship because of trauma and loss - especially when you contrast who Miller was in Peace Walker and who he's become in V.

Huey is a coward and a sociopath who is perfectly comfortable lying and trying to manipulate those around him so that he doesn't have to deal with the consequences of his actions. He spent 9 years attempting to create the perfect Metal Gear for the ones who destroyed your base, only to be recaptured and claim he's always been on your team. To sell you that lie, he grasps at whatever he can: that they didn't give him a choice, that Sahelanthropus face had a Skull just like MSF's, because he never stopped thinking about them... All the while, as the story progresses, more and more information is extracted from him. Because he knows more, way more. Because he did betray Venom and his friends 9 years ago. When he's led to finally crack, he takes steps to ensure the only person who could ever incriminate him is dead. He shoots Skull Face in the head not because he wants revenge, but because with Skull Face truly dead, no one else could tell the tale of what happened during those 9 years. He then proceeds to mutate the vocal cord parasites on purpose. Oh, and let's not forget he deliberately hid Strangelove's involvement in his project in an attempt to hide the fact that he killed the mother of his own son. Huey is designed to make players experience the pain of being manipulated by someone, all the while not having enough evidence to pass accurate judgement.

Code Talker is a scientist who was blackmailed by Skull Face to further develop the vocal cord parasites. In an attempt to protect his tribe, he kept making the threat to his tribe bigger and bigger. Code Talker is designed to make the player experience the pain of living your life while pressured by others.

Eli is one of Snake's clone. He resents Big Boss after learning his just a copy of him. His 'lust for revenge' surpasses even that of Skull Face's. Making his bond with Angering Mantis stronger than everyone else's. He uses this power to steal Sahelanthropus and a sample of the final English vocal cord parasite strain and escape with the children Diamong Dogs was trying to help. Eli disappears, only to be found and dealt with after the game's ending. He is designed to make the player feel the pain of unfinished business, the frustration that comes from the lack of proper closure.

Quiet is designed as a sexy, useful and silent sniper. You may believe her design is sexist, and I wouldn't disagree, but the reason why she's this Anime wetdream is far more interesting than her actual clothes. Kojima knows his audience and he wanted as many players as possible to like Quiet: which is why she's pretty to look at, openly shows interest in Venom, is super useful in gameplay and spends most of the game without uttersing a single opinion. If you've played MGSV to completion, you'll know that Quiet leaves Venom permanently. Quiet is designed to make the player experience the pain of abandonment. And given how many players were looking for ways not to lose her or to get her back when the game came out, I'd say this is the experience Kojima was most succesful in conveying.

Ocelot in MGSV is playing a character, just like he did in every other Metal Gear game he's ever been in, the only difference here is that Ocelot is playing himself. In the end, Ocelot is revealed not to be really working for Venom, but for the real Snake. He's been pretending to be your friend, and your 'left-hand' man through self-hypnosis. A process not unlike the one he's applied on Venom himself, erasing his identity and imposing Snake's memories on top of his own. Ocelot killed everything you ever truly were, erased memories of everything you've ever loved. All in Snake's name. Ocelot doesn't really care about Venom as a person, only as a tool for keeping the real Snake safe. Ocelot is designed to make the player feel the pain of betrayal by someone thought to be a close friend.

The real Snake is almost entirely absent from the game, aside from Missions 0 and 46 and some of the truth tapes. Snake goes along with Zero and Ocelot's plans to turn the player into Venom, showing no remorse for his fate. Snake is designed to make the player experience the pain of disillusion.

Zero is also absent from the entire game, but the tape where he visits Snake in the hospital show how their friendship could have ended differently if they had one more chance to talk. Zero is designed to make the player experience the pain of hesitation.

It is my belief that MGSV's story is brilliant precisely because it reinforces these themes so elegantly. No human interaction is every truly fulfilling or useful because everyone is so up in their heads, worried about their own pain and their own problems. Venom can't get through to Miller because he's sure Quiet is a problem, Skull Face can't really convince Venom of his work because Venom is already intent on taking him down after everything he's seen. Skull Face can't keep Code Talker in line because he's become too bitter after losing everything. The problem is the game is so effective at making the player feel these inadequacies, that the feeling they evoke is projected back onto the game itself.

MGSV gets a bad reputation because it is so successful at emotionally undermining the player, which is what it was designed to do.

Thanks for reading up until this checkpoint. This is just focusing on the theme of Pain. I've also got thoughts on the game's overall plot, which I also think is amazing, and I shall expand on them further if there's enough interested in it. Hope to hear your thoughts on the game and engage in some interesting debate!
I feel that MGV: The Phantom Pain has been a great experience. Then again, I tend to enjoy almost all.The MGS games.
 
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Roni

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RTTP with this game on PS4 Pro after playing through 3 times on PC. Always thought the story was great and it holds up even more than ever.

I like how it begins with Snake charged with rebuilding his army. This is the prequel to the first Metal Gear so we see how that Big Boss amassed an army of international mercs. We don’t just see it we live it by building his army man by man.

When Quiet is taken in, it signifies the downfall. For the first time we have Kaz protesting against it. Snake decides to take this former villain in, going against old his
old friend Kaz and along with Ocelot. Ocelot of course is a villain in every other entry. This is no longer the virtuous Snake of MGS3 or PW.

They take in Quiet, and through her, the parasites. She’s a living WMD, and much like other WMDs obtained by Outer Heaven they only attract trouble.

The scenario shifts to Africa, and we learn more about this viral ethnic cleanser of Skullface’s. We meet child soldiers, who offer Snake diamonds in payment for their lives, and are taken in by Diamond Dogs. Their leader turns out to be Liquid Snake, who only has nonviolent battles with Venom, and the two have the antagonistic relationship shared by Liquid and Solid. Had we focused on the real Big Boss then the game would have been about him and Solid Snake, which we already have that game many times over. This is interesting, to explore Liquid’s relationship with his blood relative, as well as witnessing his discovery and initial collaborations with Psycho Mantis.

The closer they get to the truth they get infected with a mass outbreak. After bringing Liquid back to Mother Base, Liquid pulls a knife of Snake, and he tells him “Never pull a weapon on a fellow soldier”. A cutscene later, Quiet is attacking a DD troublemaker, and soon enough, Snake is shooting his own men in the head, to stop the spread of the biological WMD that he decided to keep. Quiet and Liquid are both sympathetic villains more or less, and we are witnessing Snake (or even better, an innocent medic, someone trained to heal people) become the very thing he speaks against. Him killing his own men is the penultimate ritual at the end of his journey from Medic to Big Boss.

Soon we meet Code Talker, the scientist behind the bioweapon, who will cure our men. He is a Native American who worked with the US govt to crack Axis codes in WWII. He also was compelled to work for Skull Face designing a virus that kills people who don’t speak English. It is a commentary on imperialism and colonialism, the practice of eliminating a people through controlling their language, something used against the Native Americans during that genocide. Amazing no critics picked up on any of this lol it was all Konami gossip.

Soon after Code Talker that’s pretty much the end of the journey, you have a massive shootout w the Metal Gear then one last blaze of glory with Quiet. Everyone starts leaving Mother Base. Quiet. Liquid and the Metal Gear. Huey. Skull face is dead so now that we have our revenge there is nothing to look forward to, just endless missions until that fateful day in Outer Heaven. Interestingly, one of the first things we see in MGSV is Outer Heaven, and we hear the Big Boss Solid Snake gunfight going on. It is as if this whole game has been a flashback. Soon enough, as the deconstruction of Mother Base continues, Venom and the player slowly realizes the truth. Quiet is the last to leave, and she was there when he woke up in that hospital, she was set on fire by... who was it...? Venom investigating all this leads us back to the hospital where it all began.

The final ending is so wonderful and does so many things. It thanks the player for doing their part in growing the “legend of Big Boss”. It allows the “real” Big Boss to still maintain some mystery and ride off into the sunset on a motorcycle smoking a cigar like it was a Rambo movie. It also literally reboots the series, with the meta inclusion of an MSX booting up a tape with the original game code. Honestly it’s a
Great RTTP, man... Everytime I see a GIF of the game I'm inclined to pop it back in and play some more missions. Shit's great, not matter what I can't seem to get enough of this game!

I feel that MGV: The Phantom Pain has been a great experience. Then again, I tend to enjoy almost all.The MGS games.

Me too, I don't think I dislike any MGS games per se.

Nope this games story is very dumb just like a recent game that came out but damn was the gameplay awesome also weakest mainline metal gear game

The other game you mention is also all about evoking negative emotions on players, too bad players usually associate what they're feeling with the quality of the game...
 
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sircaw

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I must be one of the few people that did not like this game. I think i played 3 hours of it and gave up. Maybe i should give it another go or maybe wait till ps5.
 

Roni

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I must be one of the few people that did not like this game. I think i played 3 hours of it and gave up. Maybe i should give it another go or maybe wait till ps5.

Hey, who knows. If you played it on the old gen, the performance was ass, so definitely try on the current gen at least. If you have already played it on this gen's hardware, then it just might not be for you...

Underrated largely because it is misunderstood, it will go down as a masterpiece just like MGS2 eventually.

I agree 100%, people are quick to dismiss these days...
 
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bender

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Kiefer was a mistake. I'll take Hayder hamming up and giving a fuck over Kiefer phoning it in any day of the week. Great game though.
 
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Kamina

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I also dont think its bad.
The problem is that its chopped up in weird mission structures often and also feels slightly unfinished.
All in all its a pretty cool experience however. and the gameplay is awesome.
 

Jeeves

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So I read the OP, and then skipped to the reply box without reading the conversation yet. I just couldn't wait to post, is all. I agree with pretty much your whole post OP!

I decided to refresh myself on the series in the leadup to MGSV's release by spending the two months before launch day replaying the majority of the series (MGS 1-4, PW, GZ. and then I played the MSX games for the first time after completing V). I think doing this put me in a good position to appreciate the game for what it was, with the majority of the story fresh in mind.

Due to my terrible memory, I'm not really capable of saying much of substance on the game right now because it's been a while. But I did write a post back when I first beat it that I think you might enjoy, where I shared some thoughts on how the characters were handled. I'll paste the text from that post below.

The cast is what makes this game great, moreso than the plot itself.

Miller was fantastic, really makes you react differently to his off-screen death later. I especially enjoy the contrast between him and Ocelot. Miller's denouncing of Big Boss at the end shows that he is a man of unshakable character and ideals (Except in matters of romance, but you know). Yes, he's largely driven by revenge in this game, but only against those who would keep him from his goal of peace through rendering war irrelevant. Is MSF/DD the right way to go about achieving such a goal? I don't know, but his heart's in a noble place. Even in his hamburger tapes we can see his thirst for peace, uniting the world through delicious chemicals. If anyone, he's the real "angel of peace" around here.

Ocelot has lived in complicated circumstances, always operating under a double or triple lie. But in this game, under his own hypnosis, he lived only for Diamond Dogs and without other agendas pulling at him from different directions, he was for once able to be his truest self. I think his time with Diamond Dogs was the best and most fulfilling part of his life, and he didn't even realize it. Unlike Miller, he's more enamored with Big Boss himself than the ideals he (used to) stand for, and so once the hypnosis was gone, he didn't have a second thought about abandoning this stage of his life to follow Big Boss. People complain that he "doesn't have a personality" in this game because he's not up to something, but to me his relative tranquility here in contrast to every other game is poignant and he's made more interesting for it.

Huey was another standout character. Loved that they added so much to him compared to his appearance in Peace Walker where - let's face it - he was just Otacon in a wheel chair. Hal didn't let the terrible things happening in his life warp him, and his father is a fantastic example of how far astray one could go under duress. Between his performance and the fact that we never see him do something reprehensible on screen, I kept asking myself "Are we really doing the right thing to this guy? Is he really bad?", having to remind myself of the evidence against him. Also, it's not hard to imagine him later drowning himself in his family pool and trying to take his stepdaughter with him. Turns out he is just the kind of despicable coward to do such a thing.

Venom's a good character too, but unlike the Raiden switcharoo I don't think those who dislike him now will change their minds later. As others have pointed out, his crowning moment that endeared him to me was "Shining Lights, Even in Death". The Paz stuff was also a great depiction of this surgeon's being haunted by his failure to save her, the guilt lingering and slowly bubbling to a head even through his psycho manipulation or whatever he underwent. Like Miller, I think he has an earnest desire to help the world. Similar to Huey and Hal, I think Venom might be something like what Big Boss would have turned out to be had he not been twisted by the events of Peace Walker. Funnily enough I think Venom, who never even met The Boss, is probably the character with his views most in-line with her will, tragically misinterpreted or disregarded by those closer to her.

It's a shame that the game was left as an incomplete work, but it's also a shame that many fans were so fixated on the dangling plot threads that they overlooked what this game absolutely did deliver on: its characters.
 

Roni

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Kiefer was a mistake. I'll take Hayder hamming up and giving a fuck over Kiefer phoning it in any day of the week. Great game though.

Hayter is iconic, very much granted! But I enjoyed Kiefer's more subdued performance, Kiefer's BB has a softer voice, which I appreciate a lot.

I also dont think its bad.
The problem is that its chopped up in weird mission structures often and also feels slightly unfinished.
All in all its a pretty cool experience however. and the gameplay is awesome.

It's that TV series structure that breaks it up into smaller episode-like missions. I think longer games will need this structure going forward, they either go with something like this, or they'll need to be way shorter to keep people's attention.

So I read the OP, and then skipped to the reply box without reading the conversation yet. I just couldn't wait to post, is all. I agree with pretty much your whole post OP!

I decided to refresh myself on the series in the leadup to MGSV's release by spending the two months before launch day replaying the majority of the series (MGS 1-4, PW, GZ. and then I played the MSX games for the first time after completing V). I think doing this put me in a good position to appreciate the game for what it was, with the majority of the story fresh in mind.

Due to my terrible memory, I'm not really capable of saying much of substance on the game right now because it's been a while. But I did write a post back when I first beat it that I think you might enjoy, where I shared some thoughts on how the characters were handled. I'll paste the text from that post below.

The cast is what makes this game great, moreso than the plot itself.

Miller was fantastic, really makes you react differently to his off-screen death later. I especially enjoy the contrast between him and Ocelot. Miller's denouncing of Big Boss at the end shows that he is a man of unshakable character and ideals (Except in matters of romance, but you know). Yes, he's largely driven by revenge in this game, but only against those who would keep him from his goal of peace through rendering war irrelevant. Is MSF/DD the right way to go about achieving such a goal? I don't know, but his heart's in a noble place. Even in his hamburger tapes we can see his thirst for peace, uniting the world through delicious chemicals. If anyone, he's the real "angel of peace" around here.

Ocelot has lived in complicated circumstances, always operating under a double or triple lie. But in this game, under his own hypnosis, he lived only for Diamond Dogs and without other agendas pulling at him from different directions, he was for once able to be his truest self. I think his time with Diamond Dogs was the best and most fulfilling part of his life, and he didn't even realize it. Unlike Miller, he's more enamored with Big Boss himself than the ideals he (used to) stand for, and so once the hypnosis was gone, he didn't have a second thought about abandoning this stage of his life to follow Big Boss. People complain that he "doesn't have a personality" in this game because he's not up to something, but to me his relative tranquility here in contrast to every other game is poignant and he's made more interesting for it.

Huey was another standout character. Loved that they added so much to him compared to his appearance in Peace Walker where - let's face it - he was just Otacon in a wheel chair. Hal didn't let the terrible things happening in his life warp him, and his father is a fantastic example of how far astray one could go under duress. Between his performance and the fact that we never see him do something reprehensible on screen, I kept asking myself "Are we really doing the right thing to this guy? Is he really bad?", having to remind myself of the evidence against him. Also, it's not hard to imagine him later drowning himself in his family pool and trying to take his stepdaughter with him. Turns out he is just the kind of despicable coward to do such a thing.

Venom's a good character too, but unlike the Raiden switcharoo I don't think those who dislike him now will change their minds later. As others have pointed out, his crowning moment that endeared him to me was "Shining Lights, Even in Death". The Paz stuff was also a great depiction of this surgeon's being haunted by his failure to save her, the guilt lingering and slowly bubbling to a head even through his psycho manipulation or whatever he underwent. Like Miller, I think he has an earnest desire to help the world. Similar to Huey and Hal, I think Venom might be something like what Big Boss would have turned out to be had he not been twisted by the events of Peace Walker. Funnily enough I think Venom, who never even met The Boss, is probably the character with his views most in-line with her will, tragically misinterpreted or disregarded by those closer to her.

It's a shame that the game was left as an incomplete work, but it's also a shame that many fans were so fixated on the dangling plot threads that they overlooked what this game absolutely did deliver on: its characters.

Well put, loved the read! We do think very alike in terms of Ocelot and Huey!
 
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Jeeves

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Well put, loved the read! We do think very alike in terms of Ocelot and Huey!
Thanks! Your thoughts on Quiet were interesting to me too, it really does seem like she was tailor made to be as likable as possible before being torn away from you.

And I know it's kind of a meme, but...the game really does evoke the feeling of its subtitle in the player, whether that was on purpose or not. I'll never not wonder what could have been, if the game were allowed to properly finish development. It's always going to feel like a shame. But that very feeling does fit thematically with the game. Maybe a happy (read: bittersweet) coincidence, there.
 
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timmyp53

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I think people had more problem with the game lacking cool cinematics like the series is known for. I for one would have loved a compresses 12-15 hour experience with the same level of quality and strangeness of the opening hospital scene. The story itself was great imo just needed some more of that signature kojima flavor.

 
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Thirty7ven

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It felt like a story about Kojima’s relationship with the English language and the struggle to translate his vision to the west.

It was thematically engaging but lacked character development.
 

treemk

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It felt like a story about Kojima’s relationship with the English language and the struggle to translate his vision to the west.

It was thematically engaging but lacked character development.

Im trying to think of anything that needed more character development and I cant think if anything. Its also more of a sequel to Peace walker than anything else and maybe a lot of people never played that.
 
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treemk

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I think people had more problem with the game lacking cool cinematics like the series is known for. I for one would have loved a compresses 12-15 hour experience with the same level of quality and strangeness of the opening hospital scene. The story itself was great imo just needed some more of that signature kojima flavor.

But it has apparently over 4 hours which is still a ton, less than mgs 4 but theres also no comic relief side plots. The skull face execution was one of the most powerful moments in gaming cutscenes and quiet taking down the harrier was badass. Venom having to kill his own men was gut wrenching. There is so much quality in this game.
 
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nordique

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I think it was a great story as well but the polish in story detail between ground zeroes and phantom pain is obvious

Basically, it fell short simply because of the time needed to finish the story up

It felt like half the game wasn’t there and that was sad. It didn’t take away from what was there, and what was there was excellent, but it was incomplete
 
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VAVA Mk2

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I've thought about making this thread for a while now... Every time I did, however, I've always hesitated due to the absolute disapproval MGSV's story gets in every MGS thread I read. Thinking my arguments would fall on deaf ears unless they were extremely well built and fact-checked, and realizing I probably had more productive things to do with my time instead of spending over two of months laying out said arguments, I never did it. I thought: "that's OK, someone else will get to it".

Thing is, it's 2018 and no one got to it yet. At least I haven't read that thread, if it is around. I still don't have the time to do the 2-month research, but I thought I'd at least get the ball rolling with this thread. The thread openly talks about spoilers for ALL games of the Metal Gear franchise. Join the conversation if you have played all of the games or if you just don't care.

You see, when Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain first launched back in 2015, I was among the small group of people that considered it a masterpiece both in terms of story and gameplay. There were those who hated the game and there were those who loved the game, but both sides pretty much agreed that MGSV's story wasn't spectacular. Some even claiming it was the worst story in the series.

I think differently, radically differently.

MGSV's story is one of the best and most ambitious (and even thematically relevant) in the series, rivaling the awesome story in Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - a title itself controversial at release. If you're willing to hear me out, let's jump right into it:

Premise #1: Kojima cares. You may dislike Kojima games, you may find his genre boring, you may even dislike his taste for the dramatic. What his work objectively doesn't allow you to say is that he doesn't care about his story and his fans. The man has bent over backwards and worked under the most ridiculous constraints & conditions to bring players original themes within the canon he's established over the years. He's stuck with a painfully simple game he designed back in 1987 and built an entire franchise around it, not once taking the liberty of saying: "Yeah, that whole game didn't happen anymore", which would've been the easier path to tread. He designed a full-fledged sequel to Metal Gear Solid 4 on a portable game system, taking the constraints of that platform in stride and creating, arguably, the most complete title of the PSP's library. He may have to retcon things, he may even require players to not stick as closely to what has been said in previous games - making good use of the fact Metal Gear is a series rooted in lies and deception. But the man definitely does his best to respect the fans who have played his games.

Premise #2: Kojima is a visionary. Time and again, the man has seen ahead and worked to materialize something that didn't yet exist in our medium. Be it propelling the stealth genre into the mainstream with the original Metal Gear, creating one of the best video game thrillers at the time with Metal Gear 2, introducing cinematic storytelling with MGS, using the medium's traits to make an extremely relevant point some 15 years ahead of time with MGS2, creating one of the most emotional tales in video game history with MGS3, subverting all of our expectations in MGS4 or creating, from the ground up, an extremely high-caliber portable game. The man seizes every opportunity he has to innovate.

Premise #3: MGSV is an incomplete game. That's just a fact, but ask any developer and they will tell you that every game is ultimately incomplete. The challenge in making a game is knowing where to stop. Given that Kojima cares and that he clearly strives to push the medium forward with every new project he takes on, it seems reasonable to assume he must've tried his best to connect everything together, even if that meant being economical and using as few strands as possible in that connection.

With these premises at hand, I'd like to make the point that MGSV's story is the antithesis to the ordinary plot you'd find in most games. You see, most game stories work in service of taking the player through a satisfying emotional ride. There may be betrayals, plot twists and complications; but the player almost always reaches a climax that results in some form of closure. In most instances where that doesn't happen, it can be attributed to an oversight or an error by the developer's part. But life, as we all know it, doesn't always play out as if we're the hero.

Not all of our friends are easy-going, hard-working and extremely supportive.
Not all relationships end well.
Not all of our struggles are just.
Not all stories lead to a satisfying conclusion.

Sometimes, life just tramples over us, and we're left to pick-up the pieces in its wake.

I'd like to make the point that MGSV's story is precisely about that: a story designed to evoke all different shades of pain. Let's focus on how each character in MGSV is designed to expose the player to something negative:

Skull Face is the main antagonist of the game. He's a bureaucratic villain that captures and tortures Chico, a child that lived in your base. Not only forcing Chico to watch as he beat and raped Paz, the girl he loved, but also forcing him to participate in her torture. Contributing to her suffering and agony. He also destroys MSF's Mother Base by the end of Ground Zeroes. Essentially taking your Peace Walker save file and deleting it. He's personally responsible for you being in a coma for 9 years, losing your left arm and suffering brain damage due to a massive piece of shrapnel being stuck in your head. He's also responsible for the deaths of everyone in the hospital you wake up in and for Miller's capture and mutilation. Skull Face has been a constant source of suffering for everyone you know. He's the target, the devil. If you follow the story closely, there's no way you don't hate him. And yet, his demise is quick and mostly painless - not only because of his parasite treatment, but also because Huey puts a bullet in his head and destroys his brain. He's designed to make players experience the pain of how unfulfilling revenge ultimately is.

Miller is your closest friend, a man who has lost everything, just like you. His outlook on life, however, isn't as neutral as Venom's. Miller becomes obssessed with revenge, fueled by rage and hatred. He hates those who wronged him and builds his life around ensuring they pay him back. This makes him completely paranoid: he is constantly at odds with Ocelot, he places armed sentries to point weapons at Venom himself, he even puts up posters that say 'Big Boss is watching!' to drive home the point that all will be under scrutiny and under constant evaluation. Miller's designed to make players experience the pain of losing a relationship because of trauma and loss - especially when you contrast who Miller was in Peace Walker and who he's become in V.

Huey is a coward and a sociopath who is perfectly comfortable lying and trying to manipulate those around him so that he doesn't have to deal with the consequences of his actions. He spent 9 years attempting to create the perfect Metal Gear for the ones who destroyed your base, only to be recaptured and claim he's always been on your team. To sell you that lie, he grasps at whatever he can: that they didn't give him a choice, that Sahelanthropus face had a Skull just like MSF's, because he never stopped thinking about them... All the while, as the story progresses, more and more information is extracted from him. Because he knows more, way more. Because he did betray Venom and his friends 9 years ago. When he's led to finally crack, he takes steps to ensure the only person who could ever incriminate him is dead. He shoots Skull Face in the head not because he wants revenge, but because with Skull Face truly dead, no one else could tell the tale of what happened during those 9 years. He then proceeds to mutate the vocal cord parasites on purpose. Oh, and let's not forget he deliberately hid Strangelove's involvement in his project in an attempt to hide the fact that he killed the mother of his own son. Huey is designed to make players experience the pain of being manipulated by someone, all the while not having enough evidence to pass accurate judgement.

Code Talker is a scientist who was blackmailed by Skull Face to further develop the vocal cord parasites. In an attempt to protect his tribe, he kept making the threat to his tribe bigger and bigger. Code Talker is designed to make the player experience the pain of living your life while pressured by others.

Eli is one of Snake's clone. He resents Big Boss after learning his just a copy of him. His 'lust for revenge' surpasses even that of Skull Face's. Making his bond with Angering Mantis stronger than everyone else's. He uses this power to steal Sahelanthropus and a sample of the final English vocal cord parasite strain and escape with the children Diamong Dogs was trying to help. Eli disappears, only to be found and dealt with after the game's ending. He is designed to make the player feel the pain of unfinished business, the frustration that comes from the lack of proper closure.

Quiet is designed as a sexy, useful and silent sniper. You may believe her design is sexist, and I wouldn't disagree, but the reason why she's this Anime wetdream is far more interesting than her actual clothes. Kojima knows his audience and he wanted as many players as possible to like Quiet: which is why she's pretty to look at, openly shows interest in Venom, is super useful in gameplay and spends most of the game without uttersing a single opinion. If you've played MGSV to completion, you'll know that Quiet leaves Venom permanently. Quiet is designed to make the player experience the pain of abandonment. And given how many players were looking for ways not to lose her or to get her back when the game came out, I'd say this is the experience Kojima was most succesful in conveying.

Ocelot in MGSV is playing a character, just like he did in every other Metal Gear game he's ever been in, the only difference here is that Ocelot is playing himself. In the end, Ocelot is revealed not to be really working for Venom, but for the real Snake. He's been pretending to be your friend, and your 'left-hand' man through self-hypnosis. A process not unlike the one he's applied on Venom himself, erasing his identity and imposing Snake's memories on top of his own. Ocelot killed everything you ever truly were, erased memories of everything you've ever loved. All in Snake's name. Ocelot doesn't really care about Venom as a person, only as a tool for keeping the real Snake safe. Ocelot is designed to make the player feel the pain of betrayal by someone thought to be a close friend.

The real Snake is almost entirely absent from the game, aside from Missions 0 and 46 and some of the truth tapes. Snake goes along with Zero and Ocelot's plans to turn the player into Venom, showing no remorse for his fate. Snake is designed to make the player experience the pain of disillusion.

Zero is also absent from the entire game, but the tape where he visits Snake in the hospital show how their friendship could have ended differently if they had one more chance to talk. Zero is designed to make the player experience the pain of hesitation.

It is my belief that MGSV's story is brilliant precisely because it reinforces these themes so elegantly. No human interaction is every truly fulfilling or useful because everyone is so up in their heads, worried about their own pain and their own problems. Venom can't get through to Miller because he's sure Quiet is a problem, Skull Face can't really convince Venom of his work because Venom is already intent on taking him down after everything he's seen. Skull Face can't keep Code Talker in line because he's become too bitter after losing everything. The problem is the game is so effective at making the player feel these inadequacies, that the feeling they evoke is projected back onto the game itself.

MGSV gets a bad reputation because it is so successful at emotionally undermining the player, which is what it was designed to do.

Thanks for reading up until this checkpoint. This is just focusing on the theme of Pain. I've also got thoughts on the game's overall plot, which I also think is amazing, and I shall expand on them further if there's enough interested in it. Hope to hear your thoughts on the game and engage in some interesting debate!
Ditto
 
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treemk

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The first tapes especially are brilliant on a 2nd play through, you are listening to ocelet tell venom who he is, brainwashing him. The conext of playing from the perspective of someone who is essentially a MK ultra victim is key.
 
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Thaedolus

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I thought the plot was kinda dumb but could’ve been earned better if they were allowed to complete it. That said, it’s one of the best most fun games ever made from a pure gameplay standpoint. Goddamn I need to replay it sometime because Kojima did some brilliant stuff. He just needs an editor
 

infinitys_7th

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I think the story was fine but the presentation was not. IMO the tapes that just appear in MGSV are vastly inferior to the "organic" Codec conversations in terms of bringing the player into the story and the world. I'm sure that had to do with the open world design, but getting calls and being able to call teammates for situational responses and reactions was always my favorite part of MGS1-3. It made it feel more real. I thought initially when playing the game that they cut that stuff out because Miller was supposed to be damaged and Huey was just supposed to be hated, but the tapes still had some dialogue that could have been memorable if it actually happened during gameplay and was matched to something.
 
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Lionel Richie

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I'm not sure underrated is the word I'd use, but fittingly with the themes explored in the game I just don't know what I'd call it. I think the game is bloated, there was no need to go as long as it did. Some of the tapes were really retarded and I don't mean just the idea of listening to that many tapes, I mean the content. It's overplayed. The biggest emotional moment in Mother Base is severy undercut by Huey refusing to shut up through it. Quiet's sacrifice feels impactful, but the whole thing just doesn't make too much sense. The final twist about Venom is nice, but it also feels contrived.

That being said, it's fucking awesome. It's ridiculous, but so is the entire series. You can approach it like a 50 hour long metaphor of stuff you barely get a glimpse of, like you're spying through a philosophical door. Or you can approach it like a fucking stupid sequence of set pieces that also have to work within the confines of 30 years of lore that's been held together by spit and jizz.

Perhaps the word I'd call it is unstable. It derails into madness frequently, it's barely coherent and it badly needed an editor. But it's a wild ride like no other.
 
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Guilty_AI

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Its an unpopular opinion but MGSV is one of my favorites in the series, even storywise.
Older MGS's had great story but all the cutscenes got in the way of the game, this wasn't as bad with MGSPW and MGSV.
I also feel the last two tacked themes of war much better than previous entries. MGSV story in particular holds up pretty well given current events. Game also aged really, really well. Gameplay is glorious and still feel as fun to play than it did back then.
 

Keihart

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The feelings I felt after completing MGSV for the first time were really similar to some posters on here. I felt betrayed when i first discovered we weren't playing as big boss and after countless hours of trying unlock chapter 3, it finally dawned on me what was really going on. I felt like i was chasing something that didn't exist or something that felt was there but wasn't (This should sound familiar). I went back and watched all the cut scenes and listened to the tapes again and again because I had an obsession of wanting to know "Truth" (Similar to Kaz's Obsession with revenge) but couldn't find any coherent answers until i heard the Questioning Huey #6 tape. Instead of taking the tape's information as literal Metal Gear meta I took it as Kojima telling me something through the characters he had created. This tape made me realize that Kojima was pretty much foreshadowing how we were gonna feel post game. He knew die hard fans were gonna feel this way hence the games name, The Phantom Pain. Ten years from now people are gonna remember this game as the game that broke their hearts just like how MGS2 did back in 2001 when we played as Raiden and not Snake(Lets be real here everyone hated it, thats why MGS3 sold less copies). He did it again. Also the fact that we are still making threads about this game says a lot. MGSV isn't really about the story behind it (That died with MGS4 IMO) but about an emotional roller coaster Kojima made us go through.

Here's the link to the Tape :
I've always thought that this it's the only redeemable quality of MGSV's plotline. If Kojima really intended to make the game feel unfinished so that the player felt the phantom pain, so to speak, than yeah, great work, really.

I'm more of the idea that MGSV's phantom pain theme was improvisation in part of Kojima, there are several clues that he knew he was getting shafted inside Konami and as a preemptive strike he made MGSV as the phantom pain and created P.T.
 
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As a MGS fan my main gripe were the bosses. Skulls looked cool but overall they had no personalities like past MGS bosses. That and Im a sucker for long cutscenes (MGS4 is my favorite title) so I was shocked to see all I got was a few of them and a bunch of tapes to listen to.
 
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Corderlain

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I've gotta be honest I absolutely adored MGSV. I played the original MGS on psx years and years ago and hadn't played another since but kept up with the story somewhat. It was fun. It was interesting. It had emotional investments. It had a useful and seriously obvious fan service character. All in all a good time.
 

nikeboy94

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That was an awesome read. When you've finished writing everything you want to say, I'd highly recommend that you create a video documentary of this whole thing on Youtube. You gotta share this with the public my man!
 
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Salmon Snake

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I loved the gameplay but the story just landed flat on its belly IMO.

I really wished dlc that would have finished the story and would have ended in the beginning of the first Metal Gear with Solid Snake voiced by David Hayter. I can only dream.

Venom Snake also made Big Boss turn in to a Big Pussy..
 

#Phonepunk#

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I think people had more problem with the game lacking cool cinematics like the series is known for.
But it does have those! The game has 5+ hours of cinematics, which puts it up there with the other games. That’s the same amount of cutscenes in MGs2 and an hour more cinematics than there are in MGS3. Only MGS4 has more and its in the Guinean Book of World Records for most and longest cinematics.

The main difference is, instead of going through a handful of rooms to see the next cinematic, you are infiltrating entire bases.
 
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Raonak

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I was a MGS diehard, and absolutely loved MGS4.... but I just could not finish MGSV.

so, I don't know if the story gets better, but what I did experience it didn't stir my emotions, or trigger my curiosity in the same way the other MGS games have.

The most notable one was the lack of cutscenes in comparison to how much gameplay there was.
It felt like there was hours between plot beat happening. It was very hard to stay engaged with the story when everything is so mission based.
and the cutscenes that were there didn't have the same level cinematic excellence that the other games did imo.
none of the characters really hit home for me. part of it was the lack of david hayter tbh.
I don't really care much about audio tapes, since they can't be used to drive the main plot.

I vastly preferred the story in Death Stranding, even though that had similar cutscene balance,
but the characters/world/concept kept me hooked.
 
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A.Romero

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I'm a huge MGS and Kojima fan and despite liking MGSV a lot (I finished it within days of being released), couldn't enjoy it because it felt unfinished.

Great gameplay (I doubt kojima will ever be able to top it) but I was looking for big boss's descent into madness. Instead, I got to see another character's point of view for the the most shoe horned trama twist in any of Kojima's games.

I felt he pulled the punches. He fell in love with Big Boss and couldn't really turn him into the villian he really is.

The parasite stuff was great and the characters were amazing. I wish he spent less time traveling the world and more time finishing the third chapter so we could have had the full game he envisioned.

It was so unexpected that a lot of people still clinged to the possibility of a ruse until Death Stranding was out.

I'll love Kojima forever but MGSV is only beaten by the PSP games as the worst in the series.
 

Cracklox

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Jun 4, 2012
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I've played all the mainline MGS's and just like all the others, I had no idea what the fuck was going on with the story. Didn't care though, as it's the best stealthy/actiony game this gen when it comes to gameplay, and the sheer amount of fuckery you can cause. Plus it had Quiet and cool doggos

Also, it didn't need the empty open world. Breaking the missions down into separate, large playable hubs would've made more sense.
 
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