bRacing
Banned
XBX is a mid gen console. Huge difference.
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Microsoft confirms 12 TF RDNA 2 for the Xbox Series X
- Thread starter darkinstinct
- Start date
deccangamer
Banned
I think the 8K print on the XSX APU might not just be marketing. DirectML has flown under the radar for a year, because raytracing seemed like the bigger deal. But the Reddit leak from January 2019 mentions Microsoft AI. Using DirectML you could actually upscale a 4K image to 8K, like it has been proven to work for 1080p to 4K. Xbox Series X might actually be a full 8K console.
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Left side is the result of DirectML in 4K, right side is the native picture (1080p).
Forza Horizon 3 is shown at 15:41. This could be the real secret sauce Microsoft has for XSX. If they have DirectML upscaling to 8K in hardware on the APU, that propels the console to the equivalent of a 48 TF APU. It's absolutely crazy.
Similarly, the console could render raytracing at 1080p because of the huge performance impact and then simply use machine learning to reach 4K with much better and most of all faster results that could be achieved by using raytracing at 4k.
Isn't this similar to checkerboard rendering ? It would be great if it was done on the fly at a hardware level and not at the software level.
You are right, this could be huge for XsX.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
No, checkerboard rendering is creating pixels based on rendered pixels. In layman's terms it takes the surrounding native pixels and estimates what the one in the middle should look like. Deep learning algorithms create pixels based on assumptions over how the image should look like. It can create pixels out of thin air. It's much more powerful because it sort of has an understanding of what a pixel should look like instead of looking at existing pixels and just creating an average. Think of it more as a human. If you draw a roof, you know there should be a house under it. With checkerboard rendering, it would still just be a roof. With deep learning, it can create the house under the roof based on knowing what a human knows. The downside is that it needs training data. Checkerboard rendering is a completely local process.
Ascend
Member
I understand your sentiment. The thing is, a phone will probably be used a lot more than a console. You have a phone with you all the time, and it has many more use cases since it's always with you. Granted, most people use their phone simply for social media, but that's another story. The point is that a console will remain at home and can be used during free time only, and the value people extract from it seems less since they can practically put less time in it compared to a phone. It's the same reason people spend more money on their phone than on their TVs. Most people that buy a $1200 phone get a $500 TV.
Then there's the whole plan thing for phones. Two things people mainly use their phone for is calling and internet. Service plans are offered to pay the phone during a two year period for example, where it becomes a monthly cost rather than the whole value up front. Consoles generally do not get the same treatment, and the whole price needs to be paid up front. Sure, there are options for doing it for consoles, but it is not the standard like on phones.
Another thing to take into account is that you buy a phone, and technically, you don't have to spend anything else to really use the majority of its features. There's hotspots/wifi everywhere. For consoles, it's another story. You have to pay to play online and you have to pay for the games... It comes down to more than just initial cost.
Kazekage1981
Member
So this may be slightly off topic, but DirectML, Direct x 12, DiretRaytracing, and Microsoft specific machine/deep learning, cloud support the Universal Windows Platform for game development instead of win32? The only game that used UWP for forza motorsport 6 apex.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Nah, they are SDKs, it's not bond to UWP, it's also win32(64)...
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam - this shows less than 2% using 4k displays!
As of 2018, around 31 percent of U.S. television households made use of 4K Ultra HDTV products.
Between those figures, we can safely assume the global population that has 4k access is less about 15%, while steam stats for 2020 will be higher most people are happy on 1080p.
People vastly other estimate enthusiasts with the average consumer.
Thats why if Xbox put out a 1080p box for half the price it will be sales hit - there is no need for the extra HP for 4k if you dont have a 4k set.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Not sure, because people also have the tendency to think "Oh but what if I buy a 4K tv in the next 2 years?". Not everyone makes so rational decisions.
Panaphonics
Banned
Yup. And with Series X they still can dominate DF threads, so for the vocal hardcore gamers XBOX is still associated with „most powerful“ - if the leak is true, that PS5 is only 9TF
JAMMA
Last warning for console wars
4K adoption rate was supposed to be about 50% at the end of 2019. Hell, practically EVERY TV for sale is 4K regardless of how cheap.
1080p is dead, just the same as people claimed 1080p wasn’t ever going to take off even when budget displays were reaching sub $500 levels. 4K reached that price point long ago.
Steam users are probably reporting their monitor resolutions, which are typically 1440p or lower.
1080p is dead, just the same as people claimed 1080p wasn’t ever going to take off even when budget displays were reaching sub $500 levels. 4K reached that price point long ago.
Steam users are probably reporting their monitor resolutions, which are typically 1440p or lower.
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CyberPanda
Banned
Agreed
How quickly is 4K being adopted in the home? This seminar told us everything
How quickly is 4K being adopted in the home? This seminar told us everything
www.redsharknews.com
So, yeah. 4K adoption is low - even in 2023 only 50% adoption rate. There are much more 1080p today and whn nextgen consoles launch.
01011001
Banned
well yeah but that rate will go up soon. you basically have to specifically search for 1080p screens nowadays as 4K is absolutely becoming the standard for new TVs and 1080p is basically only sold in very small TV now
CyberPanda
Banned
What is variable rate shading: Xbox Series X feature explained
How Microsoft hopes to have the visual edge over Sony’s PS5 with Xbox Series X variable rate shading
www.gamesradar.com
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darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Did Sony ever talk about VRS or machine learning? These could be two killer features if XSX has them and PS5 doesn't. I think these techniques will offer huge performance gains over the console lifecycle, as more and more devs get used to them and understand how to use them for maximum impact.
ZywyPL
Banned
As of today, if anything, that's Sony with their CBR who know how to save a lot of performance without much sacrifice/penalty. But it's more than certain PS5 will have some sort of equivalents to MS techniques, just for the sake of all the 3rd party games compatibility alone.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
So you think that haptic features of PS5 won't get much use from third parties like the touchpad, because Microsoft doesn't support it?
ZywyPL
Banned
Judging by how DS4 and DS3/Sixaxis turned out to be utilized, absolutely. I wan't be surprised if even 1st party devs forget about DS5 extra futures 2-3 years after release.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
An ARM based OS with full CPU available to games would be great. What are IP teams?
I tracked him down myself, direct link to his LinkedIn page through the image above.
See how it reads, it sounds like quite the chip they baked and a lot left to be revealed.
Night.Ninja
Banned
The fact that ms had come out so early does about the TF does anyone think that 12TF is the base line and the xsx could be pushed a bit higher? Or the fact that they know Sony can't go higher than that?
01011001
Banned
if the leaked GPU found is exactly the specs Microsoft uses then it can theoretically be pushed to about 14TF with an overclock to slightly above 1.9ghz (from the 1.7ghz we think it is running at)
the issue here is that Microsoft's cooling solution would need to be ready for this, and we don't know anything about it.
what they could also do is activate an additional 2CUs to gain more power but that would increase cost of the console, so this is very unlikely to happen.
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darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
TBH I don't think they care. Phil seems confident that Xbox will neither be outpriced nor outperformed. I am still firmly in RDNA2 vs RDNA territory, simply because Microsoft knows they can't just hope that Sony messes up, the whole Game Pass idea depends on market domination. That's what they are going for. And XSX will be a testament to that. Weak gens always have a massive comeback.
DaGwaphics
Member
I agree with the logic that after a flub you want to come out swinging, if you can afford it (poor Sega). However, I doubt the competition is going to lay at their feet. MS's position wouldn't have an impact on Sony IMO.
spartan30gr
Member
Do we have a digital event on march 18 for microsoft?
I hope to see some news for xbox series x
I hope to see some news for xbox series x
SleepDoctor
Banned
I think its more due to them knowing or at least thinking they know Sony's specs.
If 12 tf was their baseline and Sony announced 12.1 for example, the fanboys would be up in arms...... till ms unveiled a 15 tf premium sku then there would some serious meltdowns here. Especially considering we've seen many already just off rumors
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
01011001
Another issue with pushing the GPU even further is that the cooling would have to get pricier, raising the BOM, and that could affect either pricing or how much they bleed on each unit. And that could even affect planned features like Gamepass service bundles with each system sold (if that was something they were planning), etc.That said I very much think they HAVE tested the system for higher GPU clocks and are just going with the more conservative one simply to see if Sony has any surprises they can adjust to via implementing one of the other GPU clock profiles. They probably already have the profile settings stabilized, but would rather not implement them if it increases BOM.
Ritsumei2020
Report me for console warring
You Sir (Lady?) knew your stuff