• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Microsoft cuts support for WMR VR(Windows Mixed Reality VR), pushing more focus on Xbox and Surface.

Voost Kain

Banned
Jun 6, 2015
2,000
1,202
960
Microsoft had a chance to storm the market with Windows Mixed Reality but failed to capitalize on their ownership of the Windows platform by making PC requirements too high, limiting the market to only the shrinking demographic who use desktop PCs or the tiny segment who use laptops with good graphics cards.
The platform has struggled to gain market share, and now it appears Microsoft has decided to stop trying to make it happen.

WindowsUnited.de reports that recent changes to Microsoft’s Affiliate program reflect the platforms Microsoft wishes to support.
Notable is that Microsoft will no longer pay a commission on Windows Mixed Reality headsets sold via the Microsoft Store. They join Windows Phone and the Microsoft Band as also being zero-rated – not exactly the best company to be in.

In an email Microsoft says:

"With this reclassification, we will focus our investment activities on Surface and Xbox products rather than on the following product categories"​
Other products which Microsoft will no longer be promoting include Xbox Live cards, Visual Studio and Windows, but these were never products that were pushed by Affiliate members to any degree.
This seems to be more evidence of Microsoft abandoning VR and doubling down on Office, Xbox, Surface, Project X cloud, Games on Demand, and others. It is now more clear than ever.

With WMR VR and semi-AR features put to the side to focus on HoloLens, which has different goals and isn't close to a consumer market price, the removal of VR from the Xbox One X, and no news of VR in the next Xbox consoles, I think it's time to come to the conclusion that, at least for some time, Microsoft has officially dropped VR in everyway outside directly making the announcement.

In fact, I've seen users here mention WMR, but it seems they are dialing back and moving away from WMR as well.
 

Al3x1s

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Nov 24, 2018
4,752
4,267
645
I don't think anyone (else) can infer much from this, not paying commissions doesn't mean they won't keep working on the initiative. That's like saying if Epic stop buying exclusives it means they're cutting support for the Epic Store altogether. They might, but until that's shown you can't infer it.

It's also in the company of "Windows" itself (among other stuff like Xbox Live & Game Pass) going by the list, not just Phones and other things you chose. Pack it up folks, move to Linux or Android or whatever, Microsoft itself "cut support for Windows".

So, with that example alone hopefully you can understand that something not being the focus in that way vs something else clearly doesn't have to mean dropped dead.

Also, they make note of both the "no longer commissionable product" and the % column separately as if it's doubly important when they indicate the exact same thing!

At least you didn't add a poll like "Do You Think it's a Good Thing® that WMR is Dead - Yes - No" :messenger_savoring:
 
Last edited:

Voost Kain

Banned
Jun 6, 2015
2,000
1,202
960
I don't think anyone (else) can infer much from this, not paying commissions doesn't mean they won't keep working on the initiative. That's like saying if Epic stop buying exclusives it means they're cutting support for the Epic Store altogether. They might, but until that's shown you can't infer it.

It's also in the company of "Windows" itself (among other stuff like Xbox Live & Game Pass) going by the list, not just Phones and other things you chose. Pack it up folks, move to Linux or Android or whatever, Microsoft itself "cut support for Windows".

So, with that example alone hopefully you can understand that something not being the focus in that way vs something else clearly doesn't have to mean dropped dead.

At least you didn't add a poll like "Do You Think it's a Good Thing® that WMR is Dead - Yes - No" :messenger_savoring:
You seem to have ignored the email quote of Xbox literally saying that they are moving their focus elsewhere, but ok.
 

Al3x1s

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Nov 24, 2018
4,752
4,267
645
How did I miss it when I commented on it already? But ok you clearly have an axe to grind with VR so, enjoy :)
 
Last edited:

Voost Kain

Banned
Jun 6, 2015
2,000
1,202
960
How did I miss it when I commented on it already? But ok you clearly have an axe to grind with VR so, enjoy :)
if that's the assumption you're coming to you must also think I'm out to kill all the ice cream men, because that's about the same leap. :)

Plus if I thought WMR was dead, I would have put killed in the title, I said Dialed back. I just think they are HEADING toward abandoning it and have already did most of the steps to do so. So in my yes it just needs to be confirmed, but who knows they could bring it back.

As for the subject of VR itself, I've not yet given my opinion on whether this is a good thing or not.
 

McCheese

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,588
3,879
570
Valve's Digital Distribution Platform
I intentionally didn't invest in a WMR headset because it was pretty obviously from previous products that Microsoft does not have the patience or the commitment to bootstrap a new and slow-growing sector like VR. Their inabiity to even support it on the Xbox One X showed that they only really cared about being in the room and getting their cut, rather than leading the pack or bringing any sort of innovation to the market.

Hopefully Steam will likely keep supporting the headsets well after Microsoft have forgotten about them, as the hardware was decent and the sale prices could make them a good entry level device.
 
Last edited:

LittleBusters

Member
Jun 4, 2018
2,315
1,934
465
41
This has to be the biggest b-s story I've seen in a while. The idea that MS suddenly doesn't care about 'Game Pass'? What idiocy. Also WMR is getting a big v2 update soon.
 

Al3x1s

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Nov 24, 2018
4,752
4,267
645
if that's the assumption you're coming to you must also think I'm out to kill all the ice cream men, because that's about the same leap. :)

Plus if I thought WMR was dead, I would have put killed in the title, I said Dialed back. I just think they are HEADING toward abandoning it and have already did most of the steps to do so. So in my yes it just needs to be confirmed, but who knows they could bring it back.

As for the subject of VR itself, I've not yet given my opinion on whether this is a good thing or not.

What? You linked a sensational doom and gloom article, the only of its kind (its German source linked doesn't take that yellow clickbait angle at all even), titled it "cut" (not even just "cut back") and put an image of a WMR set sinking in a whirlpool, lol.

You also used this hot take as evidence that they're "abandoning VR" so, no, you can't pretend otherwise after the fact just because you also said "dialed back" at one point when your whole title and thread was WMR/VR being cut and abandoned by Microsoft and sinking, lol.

Isn't Samsung supposed to release one of the most advanced WMR headsets soon? The Odyssey +?
https://www.sammobile.com/2018/09/28/samsung-odyssey-wmr-headset-3c-certification/

I think you guys are interpreting this information wrong.
Odyssey+ has been released but there are other WMR sets being worked on by others. And yes he's intentionally interpreting it wrong, it's the definition of a confirmation bias.
 
Last edited:

Voost Kain

Banned
Jun 6, 2015
2,000
1,202
960
This has to be the biggest b-s story I've seen in a while. The idea that MS suddenly doesn't care about 'Game Pass'? What idiocy. Also WMR is getting a big v2 update soon.
Gamepass isn't a commission based item like the game cards, that doesn't mean they don't support it, Gamepass was never on the list. WMR however, was and the removal, along with the E-mail saying they are shifting focus hurt WMR. An update doesn't refute that.
 

DarthBuzzer

Member
Jul 9, 2018
1,170
745
335
Good.

Hololens is the future, VR is a dead end. Emphasis on the “dead”.
Anyone who say this doesn't even understand HoloLens, VR, or even the team behind HoloLens.

Funnily enough Alex Kipman, who heads HoloLens, disagrees with you.

Edit: Just to have a little fun picking your brain, explain why VR is a dead-end. Because if you think HoloLens or AR in general can magically transport you to a new world, you're already living in a fantasy land. AR and VR have plenty of overlap, but also plenty of unique use cases that can never be superseded by each other.

Gotta say, it's pretty weird to have so much faith on a platform you don't even have knowledge of.
 
Last edited:

Elenchus

Banned
Jun 27, 2018
806
1,009
365
Sony couldn’t even bother to dedicate 2 minutes to its PSVR library at E3 and yet GAF will tell you Sony’s commitment is beyond debate.

There is not a single AAA 1st party game released or even announced and folks continue with this fantasy. VR is DOA.

MS just had the good sense not to waste millions putting out a low tech headset with enough wires to double as a kraken.

This is Sony GAF and you don’t even get PSVR threads here with any regularity. It’s dead. It’s okay. We can all stop pretending now.
 

AndrewRyan

Member
Jul 23, 2015
170
98
345
I love VR because of the 360 degree tracking and immersion it provides. That's why I hope these inside-out headsets (tracking through cameras on the headset) don't take off or improve dramatically before they do. If they did, developers are more likely support their limited degree tracking instead of the full 360 tracking you get with a Vive or Rift.
 

DarthBuzzer

Member
Jul 9, 2018
1,170
745
335
Sony couldn’t even bother to dedicate 2 minutes to its PSVR library at E3 and yet GAF will tell you Sony’s commitment is beyond debate.

There is not a single AAA 1st party game released or even announced and folks continue with this fantasy. VR is DOA.

MS just had the good sense not to waste millions putting out a low tech headset with enough wires to double as a kraken.

This is Sony GAF and you don’t even get PSVR threads here with any regularity. It’s dead. It’s okay. We can all stop pretending now.
You think you've got this down, except you forgot the part where they revealed a couple of PSVR games at E3, and several others shortly before and after E3. They are aware that VR is really hard to market on a stage for the time being.

PSVR had a great lineup in 2018. The 2nd highest rated PS4 exclusive was a PSVR game.

They have a studio working on a AAA game and have said that games are going to get bigger moving forward. Also, are you really that delusional that you think VR dies based off what Sony does? Sony could scrap PSVR tomorrow and it would be fine with all the other companies pushing it.
 

Elenchus

Banned
Jun 27, 2018
806
1,009
365
You think you've got this down, except you forgot the part where they revealed a couple of PSVR games at E3, and several others shortly before and after E3. They are aware that VR is really hard to market on a stage for the time being.

PSVR had a great lineup in 2018. The 2nd highest rated PS4 exclusive was a PSVR game.

They have a studio working on a AAA game and have said that games are going to get bigger moving forward. Also, are you really that delusional that you think VR dies based off what Sony does? Sony could scrap PSVR tomorrow and it would be fine with all the other companies pushing it.
PSVR should have launched with a AAA exclusive. Fact that Sony charged people $400 to play tech demos and to engage in a consumer science experiment is proof positive that they were only half invested themselves. There is zero buzz around what Sony is doing and even less around Oculus, etc. A few lone soldiers still arguing on forums does not constitute a community. Wars over son. Time to go home.
 

DarthBuzzer

Member
Jul 9, 2018
1,170
745
335
PSVR should have launched with a AAA exclusive. Fact that Sony charged people $400 to play tech demos and to engage in a consumer science experiment is proof positive that they were only half invested themselves. There is zero buzz around what Sony is doing and even less around Oculus, etc. A few lone soldiers still arguing on forums does not constitute a community. Wars over son. Time to go home.
This is a fresh start. Gaming didn't even have killer apps until 5 years into the medium. PSVR is still roughly around the expectations set out for it.
 

KonradLaw

Member
Aug 2, 2015
4,972
644
495
MS has history is dropping their initatives. So nowadays any new one is met with little support, because everybody expects MS to drop it sooner or later
 

Elenchus

Banned
Jun 27, 2018
806
1,009
365
This is a fresh start. Gaming didn't even have killer apps until 5 years into the medium. PSVR is still roughly around the expectations set out for it.
Which means what exactly? As Coach Tomlin is known to say “the standard is the standard”. Sony’s low expectations is not the measure by which we judge PSVR’s success or failure (and if I recall correctly PSVR’s sales were under those expectations anyway).

I’m constantly told on GAF that new hardware is supposed to launch with compelling AAA software. That’s the standard. PSVR hasn’t met that standard.

Now kudos to Sony because they’ve gotten the media to give them a free ride but I don’t see why gamers should. I don’t see any AAA games launched or announced; or any stage time at E3; or even press releases on VR; and that doesn’t make me wanna run out and drop a ton of coin on this thing.

Sony’s treating the thing like it’s dead so I think I’ll follow their lead here.
 

Reallink

Member
Jan 7, 2008
6,230
989
1,130
I never knew there was any expectation or rumor of Xbox Two supporting VR. I figured the quiet killing of X's support was pretty clear. IIRC they alluded to the wired low res hardware not being "console consumer" ready/friendly, and VR tech is advancing at a snails pace. If you'd have told DK2 owners way back in 2014 they would still be playing on 1080p'ish wired headsets a full 5 years later in 2019, they would have laughed you out of the thread and branded you a lunatic. Rumor has it (probably somewhere around DK2's 5th anniversary actually) Oculus will release a new "Rift S" with a single 1440p LCD for a consensus $299. So in 5 years we will have gone from a 1080P OLED for $349 to a 1440p LCD for $299. To call the progress glacial would be an understatment.
 
Last edited:

Darius87

Member
Jul 16, 2018
804
1,823
385
I’m constantly told on GAF that new hardware is supposed to launch with compelling AAA software. That’s the standard. PSVR hasn’t met that standard.
that's yours standart and it was new tech at time when it lauched so AAA games can't just be made for new platform witout trial & error, but it was good enough for start.

Now kudos to Sony because they’ve gotten the media to give them a free ride but I don’t see why gamers should.
what that suppose to mean? they hidding something from us?

I don’t see any AAA games launched or announced; or any stage time at E3; or even press releases on VR; and that doesn’t make me wanna run out and drop a ton of coin on this thing.
Does RE7 doesn't count as AAA? and it was announced at e3 briefing

Sony’s treating the thing like it’s dead so I think I’ll follow their lead here.
Really? that's why they going full in with next vr for ps5? and new games still being releasing on current vr.
 

Makariel

Member
Jan 14, 2018
2,312
2,392
580
What a shame, so I won't be buying the next Xbox either.

I've pretty much stopped playing non - vr games for now, and if console makers were to stop using vr I would likely just stop buying consoles.

Just got a wmr headset to play racing sims on PC, I have no intention of going back to flat screens. That also freed up some space on my computer desk, those triple screens were taking up a lot of room.
 

Monsterkillah

Member
Aug 12, 2018
3,775
6,003
740
What about Hololens?

They're no longer supporting that devices?

They spent lot of time for presentation of that thing couple years ago at E3
 
Last edited:

Sparda

Banned
Nov 28, 2018
236
258
165
Sony couldn’t even bother to dedicate 2 minutes to its PSVR library at E3 and yet GAF will tell you Sony’s commitment is beyond debate.

There is not a single AAA 1st party game released or even announced and folks continue with this fantasy. VR is DOA.

MS just had the good sense not to waste millions putting out a low tech headset with enough wires to double as a kraken.

This is Sony GAF and you don’t even get PSVR threads here with any regularity. It’s dead. It’s okay. We can all stop pretending now.
Sony has put more effort in vr(even entire studios) than microsoft with hololens. It's a fact. Ms don't risk, they want easy cash.
 
Last edited:

Shifty

Member
Sep 25, 2015
8,159
7,485
755
the planet Thra
So where exactly is the part where MS say they're dropping support?

Visual Studio and Windows are both alive and well despite being no-commission products, so I'm not seeing anything resembling the wording in the thread title.

Seems like clickbait to me.
 

DarthBuzzer

Member
Jul 9, 2018
1,170
745
335
Which means what exactly? As Coach Tomlin is known to say “the standard is the standard”. Sony’s low expectations is not the measure by which we judge PSVR’s success or failure (and if I recall correctly PSVR’s sales were under those expectations anyway).

I’m constantly told on GAF that new hardware is supposed to launch with compelling AAA software. That’s the standard. PSVR hasn’t met that standard.

Now kudos to Sony because they’ve gotten the media to give them a free ride but I don’t see why gamers should. I don’t see any AAA games launched or announced; or any stage time at E3; or even press releases on VR; and that doesn’t make me wanna run out and drop a ton of coin on this thing.

Sony’s treating the thing like it’s dead so I think I’ll follow their lead here.
Uhh, yes it is? You judge success or failure depending on whether the product is meeting the expectations of the company selling it, and nothing else.

If you want to quantifiably inject your own idea of success into this, then you have to understand that 1st gen products have never sold more than a few million lifetime sales.

AAA games, sure. You haven't seen anything because there hasn't been any official announcement aside from we know that a studio is working on something.

But stage time is a pointless metric. They announced a bunch of games off-stage / around E3's timeframe.

Sony has been treating it like it's alive, not dead. They talk about it more often at the moment, a bunch of their higher-ups posted on Twitter at how good Astro Bot is, even sticking with an Astro Bot profile picture in the case of Shawn Layden and Shuhei Yoshida.
 
Last edited:

DarthBuzzer

Member
Jul 9, 2018
1,170
745
335
I never knew there was any expectation or rumor of Xbox Two supporting VR. I figured the quiet killing of X's support was pretty clear. IIRC they alluded to the wired low res hardware not being "console consumer" ready/friendly, and VR tech is advancing at a snails pace. If you'd have told DK2 owners way back in 2014 they would still be playing on 1080p'ish wired headsets a full 5 years later in 2019, they would have laughed you out of the thread and branded you a lunatic. Rumor has it (probably somewhere around DK2's 5th anniversary actually) Oculus will release a new "Rift S" with a single 1440p LCD for a consensus $299. So in 5 years we will have gone from a 1080P OLED for $349 to a 1440p LCD for $299. To call the progress glacial would be an understatment.
On the surface it looks slow. On the inside, it's faster than anyone predicted 5 years ago. Going from a Rift S to a Rift 2 is likely going to feel like a bigger than jump than a 90s headset to a Rift.

The breakthroughs are all on their way, it's just taking time to get there.
 
Last edited:

Makariel

Member
Jan 14, 2018
2,312
2,392
580
I don't understand that "mixed" .... You Can use VR and also AR apps?
They have cameras in front, so you could just feed that picture through to the display and overlay AR, but with the current ones there is... Let's say there is plenty of room for improvement. Other than that they work like normal vr headsets except for the controllers. In vive or other standard vr you have external sensors that track the controllers. If you have enough stations they can track them wherever you wiggle them. With mixed reality headsets I've seen so far the controllers are only tracked as long as they are visible to said cameras in front. So if you move the controller behind your body, even just at the side, they can lose track of them.

For me this limitation does not matter, since I'm using it mostly for sim racing, where my controller is a force feedback wheel and pedals. Hence I have little use for the included controllers. If I would play more vr content I'd find the tracking too annoying, vive/oculus has big advantages there. If you're interested in actual vr content, these mixed reality headsets are a mixed bag, but that's the direction Microsoft chose to pursue.
 

Shifty

Member
Sep 25, 2015
8,159
7,485
755
the planet Thra
I don't understand that "mixed" .... You Can use VR and also AR apps?
Man, I remember having that conversation with my coworkers when WMR was announced.

TL;DR Windows Mixed Reality is meant to be a catch-all system for both VR and AR (a.k.a. VR headsets and HoloLens) because they share a lot of core systems- head tracking and motion input, for example. It makes sense from a software standpoint, but from a practical one it's limited to VR because HoloLens still isn't commerically-available.

Seems like it was quite effective from a marketing standpoint though, my colleagues bought into the name hook line and sinker and seemed to think it was some special thing that went over and above more 'traditional' Vive / Oculus implementations.

Never doubt the efficacy of sly advertising.
 
Last edited:

Gediminas

Member
Mar 6, 2018
965
3,435
505
xaxaxa, they lied again, flip floppers, hypocrites. how someone even want to support m$ is beyond me. lies on lies.
 
Last edited:

Bernkastel

Gold Member
Mar 8, 2018
5,670
11,009
920
xaxaxa, they lied again, flip floppers, hypocrites. how someone even want to support m$ is beyond me. lies on lies.
MS has history is dropping their initatives. So nowadays any new one is met with little support, because everybody expects MS to drop it sooner or later
Sony has put more effort in vr(even entire studios) than microsoft with hololens. It's a fact. Ms don't risk, they want easy cash.
These have to be some of the most misguided interpretations I have seen in this site. I don't know how a post based on confirmation bias is treated as a legit leak.
Fun fact Microsoft is still updating WMR and they are slowly porting the all UWP apps to WMR.
And the head of Hololens will be on MWC(They have also teased some Hololens update)
Microsoft will release Hololens when its ready.
 
Last edited: